I have almost zero percent patience with him

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

FF that's awesome  I have a copy of my w2 so maybe I can use that and go ahead and do it. Waiting for a copy of my tax return to be emailed, then I can forward it to the financial aid office. Yay!

Redeemed

If you have actually filed you taxes... can you not use the "data retrieval tool"? 

Usually you only estimate when there has been a delay and you are late.

FF

[formflier]

FF that's awesome  I have a copy of my w2 so maybe I can use that and go ahead and do it. Waiting for a copy of my tax return to be emailed, then I can forward it to the financial aid office. Yay!

Redeemed

If you have actually filed you taxes... can you not use the "data retrieval tool"? 

Usually you only estimate when there has been a delay and you are late.

FF

[I Am Redeemed]

I just got them processed and have to print sign and mail in. UBPDh refused to file jointly and I never got around to doing it due to chaos, moving, moving again... .anyway, I have to mail it in to officially file. Then financial aid office at my school wants a copy.

[formflier]

OK... .keep copies and mail them in  with certified return receipt.

I actually had the post office send my federal taxes to the state tax return place, even though it was addressed correctly. 

The "proof" from post office kept me from getting penalties.

They are going to hit you with penalties and interest for the late file.  Once they send you the letter saying you owe those, call them up (info on the letter) and ask for an "abatement" of penalties.  As long as this is first time, they shouldn't even be interested in the reason.

If needed you can cite "family health issues"... .and it should still go through.

Fun meter pegged when dealing with tax stuff...

FF

[I Am Redeemed]

I'm actually due a refund of $178. The tax preparer said I may not have penalties since I don't owe the IRS. We shall see... .there's no state income tax where I live, so hopefully it won't be sent to the wrong place. Really excited about starting school again. Makes me feel productive.

I have realized that if there are no restrictions from cps on visiting uBPDh, then I have to decide if I can be comfortable with s2 seeing him. Supervised, no problem, but at what point do I trust him to be unsupervised? If he's sober, he has always been a loving caregiver to s2. Even when not sober he has never been cruel to him directly. Hard to determine what is right.

[Cat Familiar]

What's your next step in finding out whether CPS is still preventing him from seeing your son? And is he staying sober as far as you know?

[Mustbeabetterway]

Redeemed,

I want to drop in and say hello.  I’m following your thread and it seems as if you are making sound decisions. 

Keep up the good work.  We are with you.

Mustbe

[I Am Redeemed]

Thank you Cat and Must be,

I don't know what to do if I can't get a response from cps. Honestly, it leads me to believe that it's not that important to them if they are not calling back. He is staying sober far as I know. I just have a lot of fear surrounding the situation, mostly due to my experience with cps regarding my other kids.

Redeemed

[formflier]

  then I have to decide if I can be comfortable with s2 seeing him. 

I would find a psychologist or someone "on your team" to help you make this decision... or make this decision for you.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

It makes sense that you're wary about CPS since you're still having to jump through hoops with them about the custody of your other children and you don't want to be vulnerable to that again with your two year old.

When does school start for you? And what is your course of study?

[I Am Redeemed]

School starts tomorrow Aug 20. I'm taking an accelerated degree program for adults in organizational leadership, which is basically business management under a different name. I hope to be able to work in marketing, particularly content marketing.
The crazy thing is that dcs is no longer actively involved in my other kids case since my sister got guardianship. But I am still held to the standards they set. I completed everything they asked me to do, even though they kept trying to say in court that I had not complied. They deliberately put off clarification on some "services" that didn't make sense anyway and could have been deemed unnecessary by a statement from my counselor. They tried to force me to attend a voluntary support group that didn't allow court ordered clients and then lied and said that I deliberately misled the group adviser about my situation, then lied and said that I refused services. They also ran out of stuff to have me do and tried to recommend that I start over and repeat some of it.

Terribly frustrating.

Redeemed

[formflier]

Do you have all of this in writing?

Is the county you are in a small county or a larger... .wealthier county?

Most smaller places have lots of "newbies".  Once they get their quals they move to higher paying places.

So... .lots more "rookie" mistakes in smaller counties.

Basically you need to figure out if it is rookie stuff or deliberate.

FF

[I Am Redeemed]

FF it's kind of confusing, the family court is in a rural county because that's where lived when the kids were originally taken. However, the cps case workers were from a larger county and the first worker we had was great. Unfortunately she retired and our new worker was against us from the start. I know without a doubt that it was deliberate. I saw her straight out lie in a team meeting. She claimed she spoke to the administrator of the sexual abuse support group they were forcing me to attend, and that the administrator said I couldn't be in the group because I didn't believe the allegations. That never happened, and I confirmed it with the administrator.
I had custody granted back to me for two weeks back in 2014. Then "new allegations" of abuse suddenly surfaced, though we were never given any specifics about what they said was supposed to have happened. My daughters were subjected to a forensic interview, witnessed by law enforcement. No law enforcement ever questioned either me or my h. No criminal charges were ever filed. Every assessment we took, every counselor that talked to us (including my girls counselor who treated them for over a year following the second removal) all were in favor of the kids being returned. No proof of the so-called allegations was ever found, though the judge never asked for proof. He simply asked cps if they substantiated the allegations, they said yes and that was it. I believe that they deliberately made it impossible for me to get custody back because they knew they had taken my kids under false allegations, but they didn't care because they thought uBPDh was crazy and I was mentally unstable for trying to figure out what was wrong with him and get him the proper treatment. My sister also actively worked against me and ended up with my kids, who she taught to call her Mom. I only had a court appointed lawyer, who knew my h from grade school in their small hometown and of course she knew his troubled background and infamous family history. UBPDh's dad was a drug addict, domestic abuser, had many criminal charges, married five times, family very poor... .I don't think we ever had a chance.

[I Am Redeemed]

I have the last of the service plans that were made, after the judge court ordered dcs to state exactly what remained for me to do. They didn't comply the first time, so he gave them another chance. I had completed everything, but uBPDh had another assessment to do. Dcs gave him no assistance in getting it done. We ran in circles trying to git done for over a year. Finally the court gave him the order he needed. Dcs liked to make certain things required of us that actually required court orders to get done, and we spent months calling different people and talking to counselors and lawyers and then would have to wait until court, which was spaced out every three to six months. Eventually they were able to keep us going in circles long enough that they could argue that the children needed permanency, making it seem like our fault and not theirs of course. And the judge granted the guardianship to my sister.

[I Am Redeemed]

Funny thing though, while dcs was actively trying to put us off from getting my other kids and pushing for my sister to get guardianship... .they never made one move on taking my youngest. We were battling for our oldest kids while we had full uninterrupted custody of our youngest son. Dcs never got involved with him until I called them out of fear and desperation last fall when uBPDh was in a psychotic state and took off with s2 after refusing to let me get him out of the car.

So tell me why I was a fit enough parent to keep s2 but not fit enough to have my other kids. Yea, I absolutely know without a doubt that it was deliberate.

Redeemed

[AskingWhy]

I Am Redeemed, I am new to this discussion lately, but I recommend you read, "Splitting," by Eddy.  It's an eye opener.

My H is uBPD/uNPD and it's a daily trial to keep my sanity.

I have been given several books to read by my own psychotherapist as she suspects H is BPD from my description.   I know the diagnostic criteria and my H is surely BPD.  I have looked at his FOO and, oh, what a sordid mess.  I should never have married him.

FIL was uNPD and MIL was an enabler.  FIL worked low-skilled jobs his whole life and the family lived in poverty.  Sound familiar.  FIL took all the family surplus money and spent it all on himself: golf clubs, hunting equipment, etc. while the wife had nothing and children had little.  Now lives in poverty and hints he needs money to his son, which is my H.  BIL is a substance abuser and just stays sober barely enough to keep a low-skilled job.

H is the only person in his family who made anything of himself.

Keep your head high in this.   Take care.
 

[I Am Redeemed]

Thank you Asking Why,

My h is pushing me to "work things out". Not just married but separated. He has been out of jail exactly three weeks, after an eight months sentence as a result of assaulting me. I have no plans to move back in with him and don't really know what the future holds for us. I don't know how to answer his questions, but he is pushing me to actively still be in the relationship and I know that I am trying to put distance in it because his past destructive behavior has nearly destroyed our family. I feel pressured and have a lot of trauma to work through. He would definitely have to show me an extended period of stability before I would consider reconciliation, but he doesn't want to wait. He wants me to commit now, and I can't. I may never feel safe in the house with him again. I definitely am not comfortable with intimate contact. He simply will not accept that I need time and space. I know that I will not be able to get my kids back if I don't distance myself from him, but he can't or won't grasp this concept. I am almost ready to just get a legal separation so he will stop smothering me and pressuring me for answers that I don't have.

Redeemed

[AskingWhy]

Thank you Asking Why,

My h is pushing me to "work things out". Not just married but separated. He has been out of jail exactly three weeks, after an eight months sentence as a result of assaulting me. I have no plans to move back in with him and don't really know what the future holds for us. I don't know how to answer his questions, but he is pushing me to actively still be in the relationship and I know that I am trying to put distance in it because his past destructive behavior has nearly destroyed our family. I feel pressured and have a lot of trauma to work through. He would definitely have to show me an extended period of stability before I would consider reconciliation, but he doesn't want to wait. He wants me to commit now, and I can't. I may never feel safe in the house with him again. I definitely am not comfortable with intimate contact. He simply will not accept that I need time and space. I know that I will not be able to get my kids back if I don't distance myself from him, but he can't or won't grasp this concept. I am almost ready to just get a legal separation so he will stop smothering me and pressuring me for answers that I don't have.

Redeemed

How sad.  You have a right to assert your boundaries.  The push/pull of BPDs and their explosive tempers and need for intimacy are enough to make anyone very, very upset. 

The legal separation will send a strong message to your H that he needs to get his act together.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi Redeemed,  good for you that you are taking time to decide what you need instead of giving in to demands.    The pressure is tough, but it sounds like you know what you need for yourself.

Keep up the good work.  I am praying and rooting for you still.  

Peace and blessings,
Mustbeabetterway

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Redeemed,
I'm sorry to hear that your husband has been pressuring you to get back together with him. It seems that he still doesn't have any understanding about how deeply his behavior has affected you and your children.   

You're very wise to hold your ground at this point.    And yes, he needs to demonstrate stability and responsibility before you can entertain the thought about reconciling with him.

With school and work and a young son, you've got a lot to deal with at the moment. It's good that you're so self-aware and grounded. 

Cat

[I Am Redeemed]

The pressure is definitely tough. He insists on trying to remain in contact all day and continues to ask me to bring him stuff. He won some money on a lottery ticket, offered to give me some of it. Then two days later he asked me for money so he could save what he had. Then he said he put it in his pocket which had a hole in it and lost it, and has been trying to get me to bring him cigarettes for two days. I'm really getting irritated with the whole thing.

Redeemed

[formflier]

He insists on trying to remain in contact all day and continues to ask me to bring him stuff. He won some money on a lottery ticket, offered to give me some of it. 

So... can you detail some of this more.

Some he said she said.

He insists... you say no and turn off phone or otherwise remove yourself... right?  (I understand that it often doesn't seem that simple)

Another way to look at it.  He insists because it works.  What happens if his insistence stops paying off?

FF

[AskingWhy]

I Am Redeemed, going no-contact is hard when our pwBPD is testing our boundaries. 

I believe this is what your H is trying to do. 

You have your eyes open now to the dynamics of BPD.

I wish you well in this.  Stay strong.

[I Am Redeemed]

So... can you detail some of this more.

Some he said she said.

He insists... you say no and turn off phone or otherwise remove yourself... right?  (I understand that it often doesn't seem that simple)

Another way to look at it.  He insists because it works.  What happens if his insistence stops paying off?

FF    

FF, the text conversation about the money went like this:

UBPDh: How's S2 and Moma (this was at 3:53 pm, seven minutes before I had to clock in for work and I did not respond to this.

UBPDh: (at 6:02 pm) You gotta come by and get some of this money. Later when your off. Don't ask questions.

--I did not respond--

UBPDh: (at 9:33 pm) I got s2 some stuff if he can come over tomorrow.

Me: I'm still at work. I have to close and I still have tables.

UBPDh: You got to come get this money please.

Me: I'm probably not getting off for another 45 minutes or so. I'm not going over there this late.

UBPDh: 500 dollars. Not asking you to hang out. Just get it and go.

UBPDh: Or I can bring it to you.

Me: No. You need it worse than me anyway.

UBPDh: What about s2 tomorrow.

Me: I'm not comfortable with that.

UBPDh: I went to store and got s2 and (my roommate's S2) some stuff. (sends pic of toys).

Me: Don't spend all your money.

UBPDh: Paid my rent. child support

UBPDh: It's not mine.

Me: Well, then I definitely don't want it. That sounds shady.

UBPDh: God is an awesome God. Jeremiah 29:11. It's good money.

Me: Whose good money is it then.

UBPDh: (sends another pic of toys) I got this for s2 and (my roommate's s2)

UBPDh: If I need the money worse than you then why you working extra. I'm just wanting to see our son and get caught up on lost time. Whatever you feel comfortable with. I just wouldn't do you like that. If you hadn't saw him in a long time I would let you see him anytime or watch him. What about I go to work then when you get done with your first shift tomorrow bring him over. And it's the govt's money.

UBPDh: Why are you not comfortable.
 
Me: I don't judge my decisions by what you would do. Im very cautious about what I do because I don't want there to be any chance of s2 coming under the radar of cps.

---I did not text him any more. He called at 11:30 pm. I answered. He told me the money was from a lottery ticket. Talked about what all he was able to pay and buy with it, lot of talk about God and was wondering how much of it he should tithe at church. Asked me my opinion. I said that the New Testament says to give what you have purposed in your heart, and to pray about it. Told him I was not going to let him watch s2 and that I would not have time in between shifts anyway to bring him over even if I was comfortable with that (which I am not, and he knows why, and we have been over the reasons why about ten zillion times.)

Last night he wanted me to come by to get some eggs. Eggs, of all things. Someone gave them to him and he can't use them because he is in a hotel room. Wanted me to pick him up some cigarettes. I never said I wanted the eggs, or that I was coming by. I texted him and told him s2 had a low fever and the babysitter had told me he was fussy, and I was going to get him. UBPDh asked to see him   and then texted "or just get him home." Thanks, that's what my plan was anyway. When I got home I got the following text;

UBPDh: Is he hot.

Me: A little.

UBPDh: I guess I thought I was going to get to see him and get some cigs. This sucks been without him and cigs all day. And him being sick makes me want one.

I did not respond. He called, I told him s2 was ok and he invited me to bible study the next day. I told him I had to open at work and then I would be babysitting until the evening.

This morning he texted:

UBPDh: hey mom, gonna be cool tonight so take s2 a jacket.

UBPDh: Hey text me first chance you get.

Me: What's up I'm trying to get ready for work.

UBPDh; never mind.

--He calls twice-- I don't answer--

UBPDh: If you have time and energy it would be appreciated could I get a energy drink and cigs this morning haven't had one in a few days.

UBPDh: OK please.

UBPDh: Never repay evil with evil. Feed your enemy and it will be as if throwing heaping coals on his head. I guess this means I am not your enemy. Im trying to understand you more and more but I don't.

Me: I have to be at work at ten. I told you that last night.

UBPDh: my bad you did. Stomach Is bothering me this am don't feel good. Please pray for me have a blessed day.


What do you guys make of this. It's a lot to read I know. I feel like I am doing good with not responding sometimes, but I wonder if I am making it worse by eventually responding even if I don't do what he wants. And the phone calls every night are getting on my nerves. I realized that I was answering them even when I did not want to, although i did feel that I should answer last night because I did want to tell him that s2 only had slight fever and he was ok. There were other texts yesterday that I did not respond to, mostly because I don't think that a response was necessary. Long texts detailing his prayers for the day and quoting bible verses. He's trying so hard to prove to me that he is "all about God." Still pushing marriage bible study which he calls counseling.

Read something last night about how domestic violence is not a marriage problem, and that pastors should not recommend marriage counseling. It's the problem of the abuser and his responsibility to seek specific help for it, and the wife should absolutely demand proof of substantial, consistent change before reconciliation is even considered.


Made sense to me but apparently not to uBPDh.

Sigh.

Redeemed

[formflier]

OK... here is my first "gut" reaction to this. 

I realize you are on the conflicted board and are trying to figure out what you will do with this relationship. 

My gut tells me you need to make some interim decisions and "lead" the relationship in that direction.  It sounds like you will be LC for a while and NC with S2 for a while, so use that as a base for what you do.

1.  Give him expectations for when to hear from you and then stick to that.  I would resist picking up the phone when he calls, unless you have texted him and asked him to call.

"Hey... .I read the texts you sent.  Thanks for reaching out.  I'll consider them and give you a response tonight before bedtime."

Then... .let him blow up the phone.

Pick a time that evening and spend 10 minutes or so sending him texts that respond (in a way you desire) to what he had texted the evening before.

Then... .read all the stuff that came in during the day.  Let him know you have it and will respond the next day before noon (or something like that)

Slowing things down is the goal.  Being deliberate about your responses is a goal.


Notice I haven't told you what to text him... .I've told you "how" (a process).

Before I give any advice on "what" to text him... .is he open to counseling for him and/or you both?  Maybe more important are you open?

FF

[once removed]

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