She sees our relationship as a game of chess, told her I'm not playing: Divorce?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This post is a bit related to the one I started yesterday but with how things have transpired over the last several hours, I wanted to start a new post to help keep things from getting confused etc.  I feel like a I am helpless or something like that with everything I bring up it.  I feel crazy and overwhelmed.

As I posted yesterday, my W told me suddenly that she would not be supporting our family when I retire in about 6 months.  The plan for the last few years has been for her to take over being the primary income earner but that suddenly changed yesterday.  That was followed by even more 'news' when I got home.  She inadvertently sent my daughter a text saying that she wanted a divorce and was fully prepared to move forward with divorce proceedings if I did not agree to coparent as we have been doing.  I hardly call what has been going on coparenting.  Anyway, my D11 sent me the message that my W had sent her and told me that it was probably for me.  I told her I was very sorry that she received that message.  I can only imagine what was going through her head when she got that.  I attempted to talk to my W about where she was at with things.  Full confession up front, I did not do well at all with avoiding JADEing.  I felt like I was hit with a ton of bricks yesterday.  She told me that she had nothing to discuss.  I told her that if she wanted to move towards a divorce that we needed to sit down and come up with a plan moving forward.  Her response was that there are plenty of people that move forward without a plan.  She went on to tell me that this is a game of chess and she has been playing her pieces very carefully and I have been playing mine poorly and this is the result of playing poorly.  I told her that I did not view our relationship as a game of chess.  I was not in it to out maneuver or outsmart her or win or make her lose.  I told her that I would not be playing her game, that my choices have been and will be based on what I believe is right and that looking at a relationship as a game of chess is far from healthy.  She went on to tell me that she told me when we got married that she would divorce me if I ever cheated on her and that is why she is moving forward with a divorce.  The affair was 12 years ago.  There has been no infidelity on my part since then.  She further explained that she has done everything she can to keep the family together so the children can have two parents and that she was waiting until they were old enough before pursuing a divorce.  That is either a lie or the last 12 years have been a lie.  I asked her if she had talked to the children about her plans and she told me that they were well aware.  She then walked away and went back into the house.  I followed and told the kids that we needed to have a talk.  As soon I said that, she walked out of the house.  I asked them if my W had talked to them about her plans and they said no.  My D11 told me all she knew was what she read in the text message she received.  I told them that they need to ask their mom about what her plans were so they could hear it directly from her.  I felt this was the right action to take because me telling them what her plans would in a sense be relieving her of having to tell them.  If she is 'forced' to tell them then she has to be accountable for that.  I really really hate having to see the children go through this mess.  It is completely unfair to them.  When I tried to talk to her later on that evening, she told me that she fully expected me to fight her tooth and nail on everything.  I told her that was not my intention at all.  I would much prefer to sit down and amicably come to an agreement on everything and move forward.  I explained that I do not want a long drawn out fight over anything.  She then told me that she 'desired' to move closer to family after I retired.  When she said this, a light bulb came on for me.  Six months ago, we were seriously looking at moving back closer to family.  One of the houses that she found and was very interested in was what they called an unconventional construction.  The house was built with a post and beam construction.  I contacted my brother to ask him if he knew anything about this as he has quite a bit of experience in this area.  He told me that it would be great for a  shop but not good for a house.  He told me he would definitely stay away from something like that.  I relayed this info to my W and she lost it.  She attacked me for talking to my brother about personal things without talking to her about talking to him first.  She told me that we don't need anyone to help and bringing family into the issue was wrong and hurtful.  With our past experience with her issues with my family, I told her that moving closer was now off the table.  I was not going to put us in a situation where we are significantly closer to people that she has problems with and have a potentially negative affect on our relationship.  If she had such a problem with me asking my brother about a house and how it was constructed, I can only imagine how things would be living close by.  Moving was not brought up again, until last night... .As I said, she told me that she desired to move closer to family after I retired and she expected me to fight her on that.  I told her that I would not fight her.  If she wanted to move that was completely fine with me and if the kids wanted to move with her that I would not fight it at all.  She told me that I should seriously consider moving and went on to ask me to provide her with any reason why we should not move or why we should stay where we are at.  The light bulb that came on is this... .it seems as though her desire to move has never gone away and this whole 'show' over the last 24 hours has been nothing but an attempt to manipulate me into moving.  Am I crazy?  I am sorry for the long posts.  I feel guilty in a sense for laying everything out here.  

Woodchuck

[Woodchuck]

This post is a bit related to the one I started yesterday but with how things have transpired over the last several hours, I wanted to start a new post to help keep things from getting confused etc.  I feel like a I am helpless or something like that with everything I bring up it.  I feel crazy and overwhelmed.

As I posted yesterday, my W told me suddenly that she would not be supporting our family when I retire in about 6 months.  The plan for the last few years has been for her to take over being the primary income earner but that suddenly changed yesterday.  That was followed by even more 'news' when I got home.  She inadvertently sent my daughter a text saying that she wanted a divorce and was fully prepared to move forward with divorce proceedings if I did not agree to coparent as we have been doing.  I hardly call what has been going on coparenting.  Anyway, my D11 sent me the message that my W had sent her and told me that it was probably for me.  I told her I was very sorry that she received that message.  I can only imagine what was going through her head when she got that.  I attempted to talk to my W about where she was at with things.  Full confession up front, I did not do well at all with avoiding JADEing.  I felt like I was hit with a ton of bricks yesterday.  She told me that she had nothing to discuss.  I told her that if she wanted to move towards a divorce that we needed to sit down and come up with a plan moving forward.  Her response was that there are plenty of people that move forward without a plan.  She went on to tell me that this is a game of chess and she has been playing her pieces very carefully and I have been playing mine poorly and this is the result of playing poorly.  I told her that I did not view our relationship as a game of chess.  I was not in it to out maneuver or outsmart her or win or make her lose.  I told her that I would not be playing her game, that my choices have been and will be based on what I believe is right and that looking at a relationship as a game of chess is far from healthy.  She went on to tell me that she told me when we got married that she would divorce me if I ever cheated on her and that is why she is moving forward with a divorce.  The affair was 12 years ago.  There has been no infidelity on my part since then.  She further explained that she has done everything she can to keep the family together so the children can have two parents and that she was waiting until they were old enough before pursuing a divorce.  That is either a lie or the last 12 years have been a lie.  I asked her if she had talked to the children about her plans and she told me that they were well aware.  She then walked away and went back into the house.  I followed and told the kids that we needed to have a talk.  As soon I said that, she walked out of the house.  I asked them if my W had talked to them about her plans and they said no.  My D11 told me all she knew was what she read in the text message she received.  I told them that they need to ask their mom about what her plans were so they could hear it directly from her.  I felt this was the right action to take because me telling them what her plans would in a sense be relieving her of having to tell them.  If she is 'forced' to tell them then she has to be accountable for that.  I really really hate having to see the children go through this mess.  It is completely unfair to them.  When I tried to talk to her later on that evening, she told me that she fully expected me to fight her tooth and nail on everything.  I told her that was not my intention at all.  I would much prefer to sit down and amicably come to an agreement on everything and move forward.  I explained that I do not want a long drawn out fight over anything.  She then told me that she 'desired' to move closer to family after I retired.  When she said this, a light bulb came on for me.  Six months ago, we were seriously looking at moving back closer to family.  One of the houses that she found and was very interested in was what they called an unconventional construction.  The house was built with a post and beam construction.  I contacted my brother to ask him if he knew anything about this as he has quite a bit of experience in this area.  He told me that it would be great for a  shop but not good for a house.  He told me he would definitely stay away from something like that.  I relayed this info to my W and she lost it.  She attacked me for talking to my brother about personal things without talking to her about talking to him first.  She told me that we don't need anyone to help and bringing family into the issue was wrong and hurtful.  With our past experience with her issues with my family, I told her that moving closer was now off the table.  I was not going to put us in a situation where we are significantly closer to people that she has problems with and have a potentially negative affect on our relationship.  If she had such a problem with me asking my brother about a house and how it was constructed, I can only imagine how things would be living close by.  Moving was not brought up again, until last night... .As I said, she told me that she desired to move closer to family after I retired and she expected me to fight her on that.  I told her that I would not fight her.  If she wanted to move that was completely fine with me and if the kids wanted to move with her that I would not fight it at all.  She told me that I should seriously consider moving and went on to ask me to provide her with any reason why we should not move or why we should stay where we are at.  The light bulb that came on is this... .it seems as though her desire to move has never gone away and this whole 'show' over the last 24 hours has been nothing but an attempt to manipulate me into moving.  Am I crazy?  I am sorry for the long posts.  I feel guilty in a sense for laying everything out here.  

Woodchuck

[Cat Familiar]

That’s quite a mixed bag of issues all rolled up in a tidy BPD package!  So sorry, Woodchuck.   

And what a shock for your daughter to get that text! I can imagine how she must have felt because my mother asked me when I was about 5 or 6 which parent I would choose when she divorced my dad. She never did, but still, it was traumatizing to be included in grownup talk like this.

As you’ve probably observed from reading on this forum, pwBPD often have no loyalty nor allegiance to agreements they’ve made. And she is still holding the affair over your head, like she has a handful of aces. She’s playing a zero sum game while you’re playing win-win for the family.

I like that you left her to explain her choices to the children. And I would bet that if you don’t put any energy into the moving idea, or the divorce, that little will come of it.

My husband used to make plans that I didn’t necessarily like and I’d try to help him carry out his objectives. Now I merely say, “That’s interesting,” and usually, without my help, these plans die on the vine. And I don’t get suckered into devoting time and energy helping him do something I’m not onboard with—then get criticized in the process for being controlling or manipulative.

These are some very fraught topics: her withdrawing from financial agreements regarding retirement, divorce, moving. About the only thing I’d suggest is you validating that she’s unhappy with how things are. Let her figure out her next move. And as she’s said, she doesn’t have a plan. She only has her emotions.

Yeah, she’s been playing chess alright—like a little kid who knocks over the board.

[Red5]

I feel guilty in a sense for laying everything out here.

Don't !

Keep posting !

It is extremely healthy for you to come here and "dump it all".

We are listening !

Red5

[Notwendy]

I read this a bit differently about not having a plan. She may very well have a plan but she doesn't want to let you in on it.

She was a stay at home mom and now she has a good job. She has been saving her money while letting you pay the majority of expenses. She has told you she has nothing left to say to you and has stonewalled discussions. She told you she will not help with finances when you retire. Out of the blue ( not in response to an argument or boundary) she texts you about a divorce. ( even though it went to your daughter).

You had an incident of infidelity and she said she would leave you if you did and was waiting for the kids to get old enough for her to be able to leave and now they are old enough.

She's got the job, the kids are older and she's saved enough money to leave if she wants to. She may have planned this.

I may not be correct but given the chance I might be, if I were in your shoes, I would consult a lawyer. If she has been saving money behind your back as you suggested, then that is information you should have and a lawyer can advise you about this. Consulting a lawyer does not mean you choose to leave or are pursuing a divorce. It is about protecting you should she really have a plan in place.

Maya Angelou said " when someone shows you who they are, believe them"

[Woodchuck]

That’s quite a mixed bag of issues all rolled up in a tidy BPD package!  So sorry, Woodchuck.   

And what a shock for your daughter to get that text! I can imagine how she must have felt because my mother asked me when I was about 5 or 6 which parent I would choose when she divorced my dad. She never did, but still, it was traumatizing to be included in grownup talk like this.

As you’ve probably observed from reading on this forum, pwBPD often have no loyalty nor allegiance to agreements they’ve made. And she is still holding the affair over your head, like she has a handful of aces. She’s playing a zero sum game while you’re playing win-win for the family.

I like that you left her to explain her choices to the children. And I would bet that if you don’t put any energy into the moving idea, or the divorce, that little will come of it.

My husband used to make plans that I didn’t necessarily like and I’d try to help him carry out his objectives. Now I merely say, “That’s interesting,” and usually, without my help, these plans die on the vine. And I don’t get suckered into devoting time and energy helping him do something I’m not onboard with—then get criticized in the process for being controlling or manipulative.

These are some very fraught topics: her withdrawing from financial agreements regarding retirement, divorce, moving. About the only thing I’d suggest is you validating that she’s unhappy with how things are. Let her figure out her next move. And as she’s said, she doesn’t have a plan. She only has her emotions.

Yeah, she’s been playing chess alright—like a little kid who knocks over the board.

Cat-
I believe you are correct in your thinking about her only having her emotions and not a plan.  I have asked her for years what her plan is and she has always had the same response, "I don't have a plan".  If I combine that with her history of starting projects and not finishing them, it is very probable that she is just speaking out of emotion.  Either way, it has caused me a lot of extra stress and anxiety as I now have to completely change my plans as I cannot trust her to be there financially.  Had I known that this was going to be likely, I would have done things very differently over the last 3-4 years.  I will not put any energy into helping her.  It will be completely up to her and I don't think that she has it in her to leave, unfortunately. I still think that this is an attempt to manipulate me into moving where she wants to move to and I am not going to play into that either.  I am just so tired and worn out.

Woodchuck

[Woodchuck]

Don't !

Keep posting !

It is extremely healthy for you to come here and "dump it all".

We are listening !

Red5

Red-
I appreciate you saying that and I appreciate all the support that I have received here.  It has really helped me keep my head above water as things have continued to deteriorate.  I have been able to look at things differently with the skills that I have learned about here and even though that has seemed to have woken a 'sleeping giant', I believe it has been healthier for me.

Woodchuck

[Woodchuck]

I read this a bit differently about not having a plan. She may very well have a plan but she doesn't want to let you in on it.

She was a stay at home mom and now she has a good job. She has been saving her money while letting you pay the majority of expenses. She has told you she has nothing left to say to you and has stonewalled discussions. She told you she will not help with finances when you retire. Out of the blue ( not in response to an argument or boundary) she texts you about a divorce. ( even though it went to your daughter).

You had an incident of infidelity and she said she would leave you if you did and was waiting for the kids to get old enough for her to be able to leave and now they are old enough.

She's got the job, the kids are older and she's saved enough money to leave if she wants to. She may have planned this.

I may not be correct but given the chance I might be, if I were in your shoes, I would consult a lawyer. If she has been saving money behind your back as you suggested, then that is information you should have and a lawyer can advise you about this. Consulting a lawyer does not mean you choose to leave or are pursuing a divorce. It is about protecting you should she really have a plan in place.

Maya Angelou said " when someone shows you who they are, believe them"

Notwendy-
It is very true that she may have a plan but aside from stating that she wants a divorce and she is not going to support the family financially, it is really par for the course.  She has stated that she does not have a plan for years.  She has stonewalled and utilized the silent treatment for years.  If she has in fact planned this, I find it quite disturbing that she would put herself and her family through 12 years of turmoil (things have been bad for longer than 12 years but 12 years ago was the time frame of my affair).  It makes no sense to me but then maybe that is because it shouldn't.  I do want to make it clear that she wasn't stashing money away behind my back.  I have been well aware of her putting money away.  It has always been under the guise of preparing for retirement, which if this has been her plan all along, that would in a sense be true.  At the end of the day, I could really care less about the money.  The welfare of the kids is much more important to me.  I can always find a way to make ends meet financially.  I have offered many times to provide her with whatever she wants when she has said she wants to leave but she never follows through with anything.

Woodchuck

[Cat Familiar]

I think Notwendy makes an interesting and valid point. She may be playing a long game here and plotting to leave and disrupt your retirement plans as retribution for the affair you had long ago. If so, she is likely more NPD than BPD, since BPD seem to be more driven by their emotions of the moment, while NPD could harbor a grudge for years and plot revenge.

You've noticed her lack of followthrough with projects for many years, so if she has had an ulterior design of waiting until the kids were older, this might be out of character as to what you've observed. However she has been successful at getting you to pay the bulk of expenses while she has saved money.

I think Notwendy makes a good point about seeking advice from an attorney. Since I'm married to one, I now understand the myriad issues that can go wrong when people make logical assumptions about their rights. Information is power. Better to be prepared for exigencies beforehand, rather than get into a harried rush to respond to crisis later.

[Woodchuck]

I think Notwendy makes an interesting and valid point. She may be playing a long game here and plotting to leave and disrupt your retirement plans as retribution for the affair you had long ago. If so, she is likely more NPD than BPD, since BPD seem to be more driven by their emotions of the moment, while NPD could harbor a grudge for years and plot revenge.

You've noticed her lack of followthrough with projects for many years, so if she has had an ulterior design of waiting until the kids were older, this might be out of character as to what you've observed. However she has been successful at getting you to pay the bulk of expenses while she has saved money.

I think Notwendy makes a good point about seeking advice from an attorney. Since I'm married to one, I now understand the myriad issues that can go wrong when people make logical assumptions about their rights. Information is power. Better to be prepared for exigencies beforehand, rather than get into a harried rush to respond to crisis later.

Cat-
It is interesting that you mention NPD.  I am not sure if you remember but in my intro post I mentioned how I came across NPD many years ago and she checked all or most all the 'requirements'.  Being a 'dumb guy', I felt like I had 'solved' the problem and excitedly told her about what I found.  If I recall correctly, it was not an accusatory confrontation but it did not go over well as you might imagine.  I have spoken to an attorney in the past year.  The thing is, at least how I see it is until I am retired, I can't really go anywhere.  The ball is in her court to make any moves.  There is no way to file for divorce without cause until there has been a 12 month separation.  The biggest concern that I have is that the kids are handled appropriately and get the best care possible.  By that, I do not mean that I believe that they should stay with me.  I think it would be best for an unbiased third party to make an assessment and go from there.  If the kids would do best with their mom and that is what they want, I would fully support that.  If it is determined that they would be best with me, then I will push for that.  If there is another option that is determined would be best, that is the route I want to go.  I don't care about the money.  Money comes and goes and I do not want a long drawn out fight over material stuff.  I have told her many times that she is free to take what she wants.  I would even be willing to sign over my entire retirement if that would 'fix' things.  I know it really wouldn't but that is the mindset that I have.  I know that she has worked very hard and done the best that she can do and she has done a lot of good for the kids.  With that, I also believe that she is missing something significant that no one can give her but herself and as the kids have gotten older, she has lost more of whatever it is she is missing and gone further and further down the path she is on.  As I told her tonight, I really just want her to be happy.  I am realizing that I am powerless to provide her that happiness and that she has to find it within.  If finding her happiness means leaving and divorcing, so be it.  I will be glad to see her happy.  I think everyone deserves to have a happy life if possible.

Woodchuck

[Cat Familiar]

I think the path you're on, Woodchuck, of letting things evolve and seeing what choices she makes is a good one. You seem like a really balanced, emotionally healthy guy, but what I'd be concerned about is you "giving away the store." Yes, you don't want to get drawn into a long battle over things, but you need to sustain your own needs as a dad, so that your kids have a safe refuge away from her.

And you're right. You can't "fix" her nor can you "make her happy" and it's likely that she doesn't know how either. What she said about divorce, then moving closer to relatives--suggests to me that she doesn't have an overarching plan.

[Notwendy]

Just to be clear, seeking legal advice isn't about filing divorce but seeking information and knowing your rights should she proceed with her threat. If you have already spoken to one, then you have the information. It isn't about what money you keep- that is determined in any settlement if it were to happen. It would be about information. Threats are frightening enough, but sometimes being informed helps with the fear of the unknown.

I agree with not responding to the threats by taking care of it for her. She may or may not do as she says. That would be on her.