How to defend against a Violent NPD

[HappyChappy]

I was the youngest left alone with an older bro with sadistic PD, who enjoyed inflicting pain. He killed four pets , kicked me out of a moving car and gave me countless black eyes and a cracked rib and the rest, until I learnt Judo and near killed him with a throttle hold. I have only had three fights outside judo competition and I never Started any, and never will. He never touched me physically again. It also confirmed he wasn’t a pycho, because they have no fear. He was just a bully. I read a research paper that stated if you were being physically bullied with someone with a PD and flight is not an option, your best defence was to escalate higher than them.  A bit like an Army Seargent does.

I was mugged outside Pen Station  by two con men, instinctively went into escalation, and they gave me the  20 dollars back, must of thought I was nuts.  I’ve got other examples. I also used this technique verbally, to great effect. I appreciate JADE and SET are the preferred ways forward for old ladies with BPD but my older bro was always bigger and stronger and would have half killed my younger sister if I didn’t intervene. So my question is, have you used escalation to any effect ? I’ve done this verbally, have you ? Also how do I stop this impulse ? One day someone will call my bluff and I’m too old for this rubbish.

[JNChell]

HappyChappy, first things first. Bless you. I don’t know what prompted your post, but I 100% relate. The rage.

Thank you for bringing it here. I have rage too, so I can relate with you.
There are times that I invite someone to pick a fight with me. I’m not afraid of size or muscles. Maybe that’s because I was little when my abusers were big. Walk with me here HC. I’m not proud of it, but I sometimes have fantasies of beating the s**t out of men bigger than me. It’s ok to have these thoughts. It’s what you do with them.

HappyChappy, how are you feeling in this moment?

[JNChell]

HappyChappy, this is one of my recent posts.

I was in sixth grade at the time of this incident. Being at that age, the storm at home was full on. At school, it was my turn for most of the class to turn on me. It was quite overwhelming when combined with my home life. Anyway, it climaxed one day. I had Elmur’s glue poured in my hair, and a student took the pencil sharpener dispenser and dumped it on my head. I just sat at my desk and cried. Eventually another student came up and punched me in the side of my head. He was coerced by the other students. That’s when I snapped. I plowed through the desks like they weren’t even there to get to him. He saw my rage. I can still remember the look in his eyes. He was afraid, but I worked him over pretty bad from a sixth grader POV. When it was over, the class was silent. I was in a defensive mode looking at them and waiting for the next attacker.

I wasn’t bullied again. I wasn’t punished by the principal, in fact he cleaned my hair out the best he could. Also, luckily, the incident wasn’t reported to my parents. Perhaps he had a feeling.

Man, everything is ok. Process and breathe HC. Everything is ok, unless you have more to tell?

[Learning2Thrive]

HC wrote:

... .
So my question is, have you used escalation to any effect ? I’ve done this verbally, have you ? Also how do I stop this impulse ? One day someone will call my bluff and I’m too old for this rubbish.
... .

Yes. And yes. It worked very well for me, actually.

BUT... .it was not true to my values so really, I regret it. Sigh... . 

How do we stop?

We do what we are doing here. We learn. We practice. We help each other. We keep strong boundaries for our own wellbeing because our children depend on us providing them a good and positive role model.   Be kind to yourself HappyChappy.

Sending you gentle hugs, lots of love & encouragement.

  L2T

[HappyChappy]

Walk with me here HC.

Thank you for your response, I got posters regret after sending this as I know it’s a tricky topic, so thanks for grasping the nettle. With me it’s not so much rage but more an instinct. I rescue, so I saw a pack of six young men bullying a woman in a Hotel pool, holding her head under the water for way too long, so I interviewed , instant aggression back. I talked my way out of it as usual. I just know one day someone will call my bluff. If others turn away, why do I keep endangereing myself ? I’m a dedicated follower of Gandy, so I’ve got this far by buffing.

 My sister and brother were bullied at school, me at home, but I would use humour to bat away anyone foolish enough to have a go, you get the room to laugh at a bully, it’s bad form to hit the joke teller. But at home my NPD and BPD ensured no one laughed, and hence negated that.

I’m sorry to hear about the glue incident, that’s bang out of order. Any cornered being has the right to defend themselves. The law is clear on this, the aggressor is the one that strikes first. We are allowed to defend. Sounds like you and I were given no choice. That look of surprise you mentioned, bullies pick on those less likely to hit back. How are you these days ? Are you hypervigile to bullying behaviour ? I am. Thing is NPD start small and then escalate, so you have to nip it in the bud early. What aspect of this topic concerns you the most ?

I’ve delt with bullies by using caustic humour, when all else fails, not very professional, but when other managers have been ineffectual for years, by telling their victims to walk around the problem or ignor it, and then they wonder why all the good members of staff leave (complaining about the bull). Sometime BPD give you no option in a business setting - FIFO has its place. Thanks again for your reply, I would imagine most of us on here struggled with bullying and you should not apologies for doing something about it. When I retaliated with the school bully, my headmaster penalised him not me. He just asked me if I had any new jokes. They know what’s going on, they knew you and I were not part of the problem. That’s why they were heads.

[HappyChappy]

HC wrote:
Yes. And yes. It worked very well for me, actually.

BUT... .it was not true to my values so really, I regret it sigh

Hey L2T

Good advice as always. My value is passivisum, but that doesn’t work with violent NPD. I see so many people passing the problem on, l saw teachers, Drs and nurses ignore the signs of abuse because my BPD and were scary people you avoid. Only twice did I see anyone take them to task, our school nurse, and a 15 year old boy. They demonstrated it was possible. Would Matin Luther King have succeeded without Malcone X ? I doubt a passive approach would ever work with Trump. Sometimes our options are limited. Thanks for your good advice.

[Learning2Thrive]

My value is passivisum, but that doesn’t work with violent NPD

I quite agree with you HC. My mother a uNPD/Sociopath hit my brother (who was on his moped) with her car, running him off the road and causing him to crash because she thought he lost the gas cap to her ratty old push mower.

There were many other violent behaviors and both overt and covert abuses.

For ME... .I just had to disengage from her completely. The sadness and loss of my dream of having a healthy, loving, kind, sane mother will never go away. But at least I am safe now.

Like you, I prefer peace. But, I am vigilant about self defense skills and quite prepared to protect myself and my family by whatever means necessary should it ever come to that.

I hope you and your family are staying safe too, HappyChappy.

  L2T

[Harri]

Hi Happy C! 

I used to go all ape but stopped a long time ago.  It was part of my tough girl don't mess with me facade.  I did not know what else to do with my anger and rage or how to temper it.  As an adult, I've never been in a physical fight, other than when I was fighting off my mom so I don't share that part, but definitely the anger and rage and letting people know that I can be more aggressive, more scary more crazy then they can.  People leave you alone then so yeah, it worked.  I don't think I had a whole lot of conscious intent behind this behavior back then.  I was just sick of people taking from me and walking all over me.  I also don't fear things most people do.  I stay when I should run, I talk when i should keep quiet.  I'm getting better but that part of this dynamic is because my danger meter is busted. 

Looking back, I think what has helped is building a stronger sense of self.  Don't get me wrong, I have a long way to go, but I have made progress.  Part of that is letting other people have their own opinions, feelings, actions separate from me.  If someone wants to see me as selfish, it hurts, but that is their right and who am I to argue with their own rectitude?  Seriously though, it goes along with not taking on the feelings, thoughts and actions of others.  Let them be who they are.  The part I struggle with is being consistent with that mentality and I think my inconsistency fluctuates with how strong I am feeling.

Okay, I think I got off on a rambly tangent there... .

I think some people, like your brother are dangerous.  He sounds more NPD to me with his plotting and planning to hurt you.  Validation and set are good for more than little old ladies though (you always make me smile Happy C!) though i am not certain they work with NPD.  I think with NPD no reaction is the best.  Not mocking as that would just enrage them more, but more of a causal oh there he goes again coupled with distance and a strong sense of self-preservation would work better.

another problem with being more angry, crazy, verbally violent is that you then become what you despise most.  As has been mentioned, it is not in line with our personal values and can actually cause us harm.  Knowing I am capable of such behavior is one thing to accept... .actually doing those things is something else entirely... .and when I look back I mostly feel foolish and embarrassed. 

[JNChell]

Hi again, HC.

Thank you for your response, I got posters regret after sending this as I know it’s a tricky topic, so thanks for grasping the nettle.

I get poster’s regret at times as well. Be easy on yourself. In fact, some of my posts from yesterday that I re-read, IMHO, make me look like an aggressive person that seeks out violence. That’s not who I am. I’ve found it to be helpful to just kind of let my thoughts flow when I’m interacting on this forum. I feel a slight release when I allow myself to do this, and you know what? I’m always met with support, compassion and empathy. I have no where else to discuss a lot of this stuff. I don’t want to overwhelm my circle of family and friends with TMI, and I have one hour a week with my T. I try to utilize that time wisely. My skin is thick Happy Chappy. It takes more than nettles to keep me from reaching out.

With me it’s not so much rage but more an instinct. I rescue, so I saw a pack of six young men bullying a woman in a Hotel pool, holding her head under the water for way too long, so I interviewed , instant aggression back. I talked my way out of it as usual. I just know one day someone will call my bluff. If others turn away, why do I keep endangereing myself ?

Firstly, I’d like to commend you on your bravery. These days it seems that most would’ve recorded a video of this incident on their smart phone rather than intervene. Thank you for being a different, and in my view a proper example as a human. I’ve not put myself in a situation that takes that kind of negotiation for quite some time. In reading your statement, the first thought that comes to mind is, were you also, in some fashion, rescuing Happy Chappy?

But at home my NPD and BPD ensured no one laughed, and hence negated that.

I empathize with this, although  my NPD dad laughed often at other’s expense. The fact is, behind closed doors, these were terrifying people to have to live with. This is why C-PTSD is seen so much on this board. We weren’t taught about survival, we lived it every day and we’re not too happy about it. I personally think that it’s perfectly fine to not be too happy about it as long as we’re working through it. What a crazy journey. Book worthy, ya know?

I’m sorry to hear about the glue incident, that’s bang out of order. Any cornered being has the right to defend themselves. The law is clear on this, the aggressor is the one that strikes first. We are allowed to defend. Sounds like you and I were given no choice. That look of surprise you mentioned, bullies pick on those less likely to hit back. How are you these days ? Are you hypervigile to bullying behaviour ? I am. Thing is NPD start small and then escalate, so you have to nip it in the bud early. What aspect of this topic concerns you the most ?

Eh, the glue incident was decades ago, but I nipped it in the bud.  You are 100% right. We do have the to protect ourselves. This trickles all the way down to the self care that is so often discussed here. Yes. I am hyper vigilant towards bullying behavior. I mentioned this in a post fairly recently. I was grocery shopping with S3. It was a more affordable store where you bag your own groceries after paying. I was next to a younger man than myself that was ordering his daughter to bag the groceries. I’m assuming that she was 10-12 years old. He kept repeating, “faster please” in a very demeaning way. Over and over and over. I had heard enough. I turned at looked at her. Her expression was blank. Then I locked eyes with the dad. I told him what I had to say with my eyes. There were innocent children. What could I do. He eventually looked at the floor, and left with his daughter. I saw the shame in his eyes. I worried if she received bad treatment when she got home because I caused this man to feel shame. Hmm. Maybe something for me to think about a little more.

What concerned me about this topic is that I sensed a bit of distress in your message. It also felt familiar to me. I know that we are bound by electronic communication here, and sometimes it’s hard to decipher emotions, but I just felt the need to reach out. I’m glad I did, and I’m glad you posted. As it is, you’ve started a very interesting and helpful conversation!

I hope this day has been a good one for you. Thank you for being open with all of us. You know how much of a help that is.

[HappyChappy]

Like you, I prefer peace. But, I am vigilant about self defense skills and quite prepared to protect myself and my family by whatever means necessary should it ever come to that.

L2T you Buddhist Ninger you. I’ve also been NC with the violent one, Jellousy provoked much, and our BPD constantly provokes jellousy. He coverts what he sees daily, so NC appears to have stopped it, I hope that’s the case for you. It flared up reasently because my Dad died, and he wanted to influence the Will. He already more money than he could spend, but greed is one of their seven deadly weaknesses. Wishing you peace.

[HappyChappy]

I think with NPD no reaction is the best.

Agread, but some don’t allow that, my BPD would follow you from room to room, nagging. Thanks for your validation Harri, we cool cats desguised as cartoon Beagles need to stick together.   

[HappyChappy]

Hey JNChell,

  Your point about your NPD laughing when someone gets hurt. Someone with a PD tends to have schoolboy humour. Slapstick. Adult humour requires empathy. For me humour is a quick test for a PD. Also note How Trump attack’s SNL. He actually got a writer on the show sacked. Or when ISIS stormed the French magazeen and murdered cartoonists. Because of a cartoon about a Mohamed. Humour is often the last bastion of peaceful demonstration. People with a PD fear humour, because they don’t understand it, unless it’s school boy humour. Mel Brooks made this point over and over. Feel free to PM me any recent Trump jokes