Mediation with BPD

[cdwspyder]

Any resources or tips for doing mediation with someone that has BPD (undiagnosed)?

Before I filed for divorce two months ago I knew it would be very difficult and I knew she would not take it well. That is putting it mildly now that I am 8 weeks later and still living with her, primarily for my toddler son's sake, waiting on our first mediation appointment on 10/2/18. I had no idea about BPD before I filed, but my gut told me something deeper was going on that she was not in control of. I thought maybe bi-polar, I thought maybe narcissistic, but I never even knew about BPD until a few weeks ago when I came across the books Stop Walking On Eggshells and It's All Your Fault.

Now I'm just scared, stressed and anxious mediation will never work and I see that most high conflict divorces are due to BPD. I cannot afford a lengthy court battle, she will be horrid I just know and my son will be in the middle of it. Even over the past few weeks she cannot protect him from her own emotional roller coaster. What is gonna happen if we go to court? How do I even protect him from her?

I need tips for getting us through mediation because I think court will destroy us.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated other than "it's never going to happen."

[CoherentMoose]

Hello. Sorry to hear you're in this situation. I'd suggest reading some Bill Eddy books. Splitting, BIFF, and Don't Alienate the Kids. Splitting and the second half of Don't Alienate the Kids describe approaches to dealing with high conflict people. BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly and Firm) provides a great framework on how to communicate. BIFF is one of those skills I'm finding very difficult to master. Good luck, God bless. jdc

[ForeverDad]

Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder is probably our most crucial handbook here on the Family Law & Divorce board.  If you don't have a copy, get one.

As for mediation, more of than you might imagine have reached settlements.  However, very seldom is it possible early in a separation or divorce.  Why?  The disordered parent generally feels too in control or entitled to be willing to truly negotiate in good faith.  If you walk into mediation and find yourself thinking, "Wow, this is working!" then you need to ponder whether you are Gifting Away too much parenting authority, parenting time, assets and finances.

So how did I (and others too) reach settlements?  Usually it isn't until later in the case, such as before a major hearing or trial where the soon-to-be-Ex (stbEx) fianally realizes the world is not revolving around her.  In my case, my ex had a very favorable temp order, temp custody and temp majority time as "primary parent".  That was decided by the magistrate's single question, "what are your work schedules?"  She had quit work when our son was born and so... .I court decided I should pay the bills and she parent.  Ugh, talk about putting the fox in charge of the hen house... .

So with everything in her favor, she had every incentive to keep that structure in place for as long as she could.  My lawyer with over 15 years of experience had estimated divorce would that 7-9 months.  No, it took 23.5 months, nearly two years from filing to final decree.  She caved on Trial Day.  When I arrived a few minutes early, I was greeted with that news.  She could delay no longer.

For most of us a divorce takes 1 to 2 years.  Some less, some more.  Remember, mediation does NOT have to succeed.  Got that?  If it fails, as it usually does early in a case, then it just goes back to the court for it to move on to the next step.  To repeat again, mediation does NOT have to succeed, not if it means you're signing away too much, your life, or your parenting.

Is it worth it to step forward, being proactive as the reasonably normal parent?  Most certainly, yes!  But passive won't work.  Neither will long term appeasing or acquiescing.  Boundaries will need to be set.  She will resist them, try to squash them, but boundaries are your best protection and proactive strategies.  It took me years to figure boundaries out since my ex never respected them. Finally I got it though my head, the boundaries need to be MY boundaries.  How so?

You have been unable to improve his perceptions and behaviors.  Evidently counseling too has been unable to improve his perceptions behaviors.  So basically only one alternative left other than continuing to appease and suffer.  That is to set your own boundaries for what you will allow.  This is more than telling him what he must not do.  He's likely to ignore or push back on any real limits.  The boundaries are for you.

For example, "If you rant or rage then I will leave (hopefully with the kids to a park or movie or restaurant) until you calm down."

"If you... .then I... ."

My story... .   I had a 2 year divorce.  We tried mediation right after the temp order was issued but it failed as I expected.  It wasn't until the very end, minutes before the scheduled day-long trial was to begin, that my ex finally agreed to settle.  By then I was ready for trial.  So I felt secure to say, "I the father will be Residential Parent for school purposes or we go in and start the trial and let the judge decide it all."  If I had not set that as one of my boundaries I would never have become RP in Shared Parenting.  Within a couple months I was given one day to register son in my own district due to mother's scenes at school.  If I hadn't become RP then son's school would have been stuck with her.

Look for ways for him/her to 'feel' like he/she won something.  Negotiation is an art.  One way is to ask for more (or hold extra in reserve) then give back some of the excess to get concessions.  Another way is to make it appear you want lots of things then if you trade away some of it (that you don't really care about) then he will feel he won... .

Trust your gut.  If it feels wrong to give in on something, then don't. Or at least give yourself some time to ponder it away from the pressure of the moment.  Otherwise you may regret it in later years.  After all, it's okay for you to stand up for yourself and your children.  It's okay to say 'No' too.

In my own case, I recall when the custody evaluation came out solidly in my favor, though also indicating we should start with Shared Parenting trying to make that work.  The court ordered a Settlement Conference next.  It only lasted about 5 minutes or so.  She reached over the table and with her hand like a claw said she'd claw my eyes out if I tried to get custody.  That was that, the attempt failed, not a surprise.  But before we started I had been sitting alone with my lawyer when her lawyer walked in and sat down.  He explained he was divorced and had alternate weekends.  He asked me to consider that.  In a very rare instance of my mind picking out the absolute best response, I told him, "That sounds fine but I don't think your client would like alternate weekends."   He didn't say another word, he of course already knew the CE's report favored me.  But did you notice the assumption he tried to saddle on me?  So many today have the perception that fathers should only expect to get alternate weekends as sometimes dads.

[Panda39]

Hi cdwspyder,

General information on Mediation... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=278059.0

Is this Mediation specifically about custody and child support or other things, property, financial etc.

How long have you been married? What are your goals through Mediation? Ideally, what would you like the outcome to be?  Will you have an attorney with you?

Also want to echo jdc's book suggestion... .Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline Or Narcissistic Personality Disorder
by Bill Eddy

Panda39

[worriedStepmom]

Some of this depends on her personality.

My H's uBPDex is scared of the court system.  She believes they will see right through her and take her daughter away forever immediately if she goes in front of a judge.  She also thinks that my H has more power than he does - even when the custody docs stated that she was primary parent, she deferred to my H on almost every major decision, because she was scared he'd take her to court if he disagreed with her.

Their divorce was very quick, decided without lawyers.  We went to court this summer to get primary custody of SD, and uBPDex didn't even show up to the initial hearing, so H got everything he asked for.  H had a lawyer; uBPDex did not.

This is not to say that any of this was easy.  From the time between H filed the custody modification and the hearing, uBPDex was very dysregulated and tried all kinds of manipulations to get him to drop it.  He held very firm to his boundaries while still being compassionate. 

It was also very important for H to have a rock-solid plan for what he wanted the change to look like, with documented reasons for each thing that he asked for.  He also tried to be fair.
 This is because uBPDex was incapable of ever presenting a plan.  She wanted the status quo to remain and would not offer ANY feedback on any other solution, would not acknowledge that any of the things he documented were actually issues, would not even attempt to think of other alternatives, etc.  But, when it came down to it, she totally caved and signed what he put in front of her.  She's still mad about it, but she signed.

[kells76]

Hey cdwspyder, glad you found the boards, and sorry for what brings you here... .

Couple of thoughts right off the top of my head:

I'm just scared, stressed and anxious mediation will never work

Yes, I can relate. The months leading up to and during a few attempts at mediation were really stressful for my husband and I, too. I wonder if reframing the situation -- reassessing what is realistic -- might help both your stress levels and your strategy.

So, one mindset going in to mediation might be the "I have to win (for my kid)" mindset. Something like "In mediation, I have to MAKE her do things the right way, or else I (and my kid) lose". Maybe not that explicit, but kind of a mindset of "making mediation work" or "mediation HAS to be successful". For me, those would be stressful mindsets; that would put a lot of weight on me.

Another mindset would be something like "I recognize ahead of time that she will bicker, argue, put down, have few solutions, focus on herself, blame, justify, and be entitled. Now I don't have to be scared of being surprised by those things; in fact, I can use that knowledge to my son's advantage".

Member David had an experience in mediation where he was able to use that mindset to "show" the mediator who was actually "the problem". I think his ex had proposed something that strongly benefited her. After a bit of time, David then made the exact same proposal. His ex shot it down, not recognizing that it was what she had proposed, only reacting to the fact that David had suggested it. (David, feel free to chime in on this). I believe that was when the mediator had a "lightbulb" moment of who was really trying and who was just in it for themselves. Again, if I'm remembering the story correctly, David then felt secure in saying "Mediation isn't working, I'm sorry, we need to go to court", knowing the mediator would back him up.

So, ponder whether "radically accepting" that your son's mom will play a low game, create conflict, have no problem-solving ideas, etc, might actually be important information that guides your strategy. You can think about whether accepting her low capabilities ahead of time might "turn off" some of the anxiety you are feeling and channel it into making a problem-solving plan.

I'd also recommend at least consulting with a couple of lawyers ahead of mediation. You don't need to discuss this with your son's mom. You can even do phone consultations, sometimes you can get some helpful info for free or low cost that way. DH didn't want to get a L for a long time, but when we finally did, it was a relief to hear expert advice about how things would probably go in our county, what to push for, what not to waste time on, etc. Even a couple of face-to-face consultations, while maybe $100-ish each, could help you manage your stress levels, and focus that energy onto tactics and strategy.

When you have a chance, let us know how else we can help you. And keep loving your son -- I bet he's the light of your life   

kells76

[cdwspyder]

Hi all,
I'm so happy I put myself out there and asked for help. Thanks for the feedback and reading suggestions. Will start reading Splitting next week and make that my priority read.

Kells76, thanks for the mindset example from David's case. That helps a great deal. I guess being scared and anxious of my "wife" is kind of like being scared of my toddler son since she is in essence like a child in many ways. Sad to say that, but I guess its kind of the truth. Based on cyclical conversations we are having I already know what she wants more than anything and that's the house. Sometimes I wonder if she even cares about custody, but she definitely gets defensive if I suggest she consider giving me 100% or primary. So your suggestion is good food for thought and gives me roll playing possibilities before our first appointment in a week and a half.

worriedStepmom, your H's situation gives me some hope as well as my uBPD refuses to get a lawyer and I believe deep down is afraid to go to court. So maybe I can use that to my advantage, but I guess I now see from everyone's feedback that releasing some control and accepting that court might be unavoidable is a healthy step for my own emotional process. I think she stands to lose custody and the house if we were go to court so maybe there is leverage there... .

Anyone have experience with temporary nesting agreements in this situation? On top of uBPD she has adjustment disorder (amongst a few other things) and I was considering offering a temp nesting agreement as part of temp orders to help ease the process along for her. So she can come to terms with the divorce, then look for a job, then find a way to "buy" the house or get a mortgage. I would build a drop dead date into the agreement as motivation or we sell the house. My lawyer says nesting agreements don't work but the drop dead date idea is totally doable... .but maybe for 6 months or so? Maybe leverage to get primary custody of my son since I have an indefinite in law apartment or cheap condo to rent... .?

Is this a good idea in anyone's experience or am I setting myself up for failure or more difficult times than a clean break? I guess the mediator will also be able to advise.

Thanks so much!

P.S. I am new to message boards. Can I reply to individual ones as a post or is this the only way as I just did?

[AquaFina]

Get the book Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger

[livednlearned]

Hi cdwspyder,

Like worriedstepmom said, every person with BPD is different. Not all BPD sufferers are high-conflict people (HCP). According to Eddy, high conflict people recruit negative advocates, are persuasive blamers, and have a target of blame (you), and some kind of PD. You can be BPD and not be HCP. Let's hope that's true for your wife.

The fact you two can live together suggests she may not be HCP -- she hasn't filed a false allegation, which is probably hard to appreciate but nonetheless a huge saving grace. Eddy describes three degrees:

*generally cooperative, not dangerous
*not cooperative, not dangerous
*not cooperative, dangerous

She may be not cooperative, not dangerous right now because a bomb just went off in her life (divorce can make everyone a bit BPD in behavior... .) but a skilled mediator may be able to de-escalate some of the more difficult behaviors. For many of us, mediation goes relatively smoothly, it's the stonewalling that makes things so difficult.

I would make sure you go into mediation knowing exactly what you want for your daughter, and for you. Don't tip your hand right away -- know that she will be asking for more than what's reasonable, so give yourself some room to do the same. That way you can give her something during the process so she doesn't feel like she's losing everything.

For example, say you come in and ask for the house and 80/20 joint custody (with you as residential parent for school purposes, or primary parent or whatever) and decision-making. She may want the house, 100 percent of D2, and written guarantee that you will never find joy and happiness for the rest of your life.

If what she really wants is the house, that is your leverage. Don't give it away early in mediation. Don't give up that item until you have gone back and forth on the other pieces.

Also, you may be able to mediate on 95 percent of all items, and leave anything undecided for some future date. In my mediation, we were able to settle on the house, our finances, a 60/40 visitation schedule, me with primary physical custody, but I could not agree to joint legal custody. So our mediated order says something like, The parties agree to all this stuff, except for joint legal custody, which will be decided before a judge.

Then it just sat like that until it became impossible for me to make medical and school decisions for our then S10. I had to file a motion to modify the order because of that, which brought us to court.

Last, have your L be the one to write up the order. It will cost you money, but you get his/her language in the order, including reasonable consequences for non-compliance. In my case (high-conflict ex husband who was also a former trial attorney), the thing that cost so much money was going back to court to get my ex to comply. The judge would give him four or five bites of the apple, and I kept buying the apples.

If you end up giving your wife the house, make sure you have deadlines and consequences for not complying with the order. I gave my ex the house and it took me four trips to court and thousands of dollars to give it away. Gah!

I wish I had not given it to him because the proceeds of the house would've paid for the BPD stonewalling behaviors and trips to court to give him what he wanted. (That sentence barely makes sense because the behaviors were nonsensical  )

Your order should have no loopholes, and you will have to drive that language because your L won't understand the importance of it. "Ms. cdwspyder must arrange to finance the house by day/date. If at that time she has not arranged for that to happen, Mr. cdwspyder will have 14 days to arrange the sale of the house and select a realtor, and Ms. cdwspyder must be moved out by day/date."

Keep hammering out those details until there are no loopholes left. Otherwise you pay for a judge to say, "Try again, this time really do it."

If you have contingencies and consequences for non-compliance, the judge will say, "It says here to do x, y, z, so that's what you need to do. Ms. cdwspyder, I recommend you do this otherwise Mr. cdwspyder has permission to change the locks and have you removed from the house within 14 days. If I were you, I would think carefully about what I'm about to say. Go get a mortgage broker and real estate attorney today, and get those papers signed otherwise you will be coming home to a locked house and all your stuff in a storage unit."

Sorry, this is going way beyond what you asked 

Mediation and court nearly broke me and I had to learn the hard way how to make family law court work for me instead of against me.

[ForeverDad]

Sorry to repeat this but if you walk into mediation think you *must* reach a settlement then you risk an outcome you'll regret later.  It should be like "irresistible force meets immovable object".  But can you and your boundaries be that needed immovable object?  As another noted, we are remote and can't predict precisely how your stbEx will act, react or overreact.  So just keep in the back of your mind that if you're uncomfortable with the direction it's going or the terms she's demanding you can call a break, consult with your lawyer if not present, or even declare it failed.  It's okay if mediation fails.  It does NOT have to succeed.

As for mediation, more of than you might imagine have reached settlements.  However, very seldom is it possible early in a separation or divorce.  Why?  The disordered parent generally feels too in control or entitled to be willing to truly negotiate in good faith.  If you walk into mediation and find yourself thinking, "Wow, this is working!" then you need to ponder whether you are Gifting Away too much parenting authority, parenting time, assets and finances.

As for Nesting, we agree with your lawyer that it is not a long term solution.  Besides the expense of maintaining three homes, the children never truly get to feel they're in dad's home or mom's home since the parents are popping in and out.  And there is high risk mom will refuse to leave when dad's time rolls around or will try to come early before dad's time ends.

About her getting the house... .Can she afford the house, the mortgage (in her own name!), utility bills, the ever-increasing real estate taxes, maintenance, etc?    The harsh reality, not the pie-in-the-sky expectations.  If she can't, then she will expect you to pay all those bills through alimony or something.  Child support likely won't pay that much.  (I'm assuming you're not independently wealthy and that she doesn't have super high income.)

Remember that a house is a house.  That's all.  Same for apartments, condos, beachfront summer homes, etc.  Home, on the other hand is wherever you live or she lives, okay for it to be humble.  The benefit of separate homes is that your home can be a model of peace, calm, stability, love and rules that make sense.  Over the years that's what is important, you can model the stability and healthy boundaries that the children will need when they're grown and selecting their own friends and mates.

[livednlearned]

It's a really important point that ForeverDad is making.

No one wants the expense of court, but the truth is that high-conflict custody battles/divorces come with a higher price tag than regular divorces 

At the very least, bluff that you are ready to get a ruling directly from the judge -- don't settle for anything than what you would reasonably get from a judge.

The mediator/lawyers will pride themselves on settling things in mediation, and may put some pressure on you to settle for things that aren't ok. Some even advertise what percentage of cases they settle in mediation because they know people don't want to go to court. But for most of us, judges were more fair than anything our BPD spouses considered reasonable.'

You have to walk the fine line between desperately wanting to settle in mediation and not showing any part of that desperation.

[cdwspyder]

Good stuff here and much ties nicely into brainstorming and game planning I have been doing to "figure" everything out.

livednlearned it gives me comfort that you mentioned contingencies and non-compliance drop dead dates for something like "get a mortgage, buy me out by this date... .or we sell" because I mentioned that to my lawyer last week and she understood and agreed it was possible. My L is also aware of the uBPD card thrown into the mix and says she has experience with these types of cases so I believe I am in capable hands no matter how this goes down.

ForeverDad thanks again for reiterating that mediation does not have to work and it's okay that it does not work because I make that decision. Over the weekend I was wrestling with how I have been approaching this from a "what is easiest for Her" mentality since I am so used to walking on egg shells and giving Her what she wants to keep the peace. A friend called me out on being too nice and for considering the idea of letting her have the house without getting my half of the current equity and it gave me pause to re-consider what I want: the divorce, means to set up my new life for me and my son and not walking away the "nice" guy who ends up having nothing and whose boundaries have been dismantled.

I don't care about the house because I believe home is who I am to my son no matter where I live and I know he won't give a ___ if it's an apartment, house or a trailer. She is stuck on the tangible house because, in my opinion, she is projecting her childhood onto him and the situation and trying to compensate for the childhood that probably made her who she is.

If mediation does not work can court still be avoided by doing a "let's sit down with lawyers in a conference room and hash this out" or is that more or less the same just with one more voice added to the mix? Might be worse for me if she gets a lawyer that encourages her delusions and unrealistic expectations and terms... .? 

I guess the consensus is if I don't like where mediation is going, call it off and go to court and don't be afraid of that. I accept that... .thanks for the encouragement.

Should have Splitting on Wednesday and plan on power reading through it. Any sections or chapters I should focus on since our first mediation appointment is next Tuesday 10/2?

[livednlearned]

Any sections or chapters I should focus on since our first mediation appointment is next Tuesday 10/2?

A bit tangential to your question -- there are other helpful materials online that Eddy's High Conflict Institute shares freely, like this:

https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/free-articles/2018/3/11/high-conflict-mediation-4-tips-for-mediators

and

https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/new-ways-for-mediation/

You may want to talk to the mediator about Eddy's suggestion that the mediator sets ground rules -- tabling discussion of emotional issues or past behaviors, for example. Including the option that if the high-conflict person (or you, for that matter) feel too emotionally aroused, the mediator can separate parties in two rooms so that it's easier to focus on solutions.

My mediator was terrible and we were able to come to something of an agreement in spite of her. Knowing what I know now, I would've screened her better and discussed how to prepare both parties so we were working with ground rules.

[cdwspyder]

Feeling frustrated, angry and trapped... .yet again... .

Well the first mediation appointment came and went this past Tuesday, but it was really just an introduction and a waste of $180. I thought we would actually get into our first session and start hashing out a plan, but that did not happen. This date was chosen by the uBPD wife because she said she would start mediation at the beginning of October and she has put me and my son through 8 weeks of hell to get to this date and what do you know... .she did not sign the agreement to mediate because she needed to "think about it" more despite the fact she agrees the marriage is over and mediation is the best way. At least we can agree on those two things... .plus a third... .that going to court would be very, very bad for us and would leave us financially and emotionally ruined.

She wants to know exactly what the future looks like for her in terms of income (she does not have a job) and how to keep the house (which means she has to get a job, six months of income, a co-signer and a mortgage approved) before she agrees to go into mediation. ISN'T MEDIATION FOR THIS EXACT THING? Yet even if I broach the subject of sitting down to start talking solutions she says I am rushing her and being unkind. I literally cannot say anything nor can even express my feelings for fear of wrathful retorts and invalidation. She says I am selfish in doing this and "bullying" her into it yet she does not even understand or care to understand that I matter in all of this and need an idea of when closure will happen because this is emotionally exhausting for me. It's blatant emotional abuse (of course she does not see it that way) and I'm forced to constantly stuff my feelings and thoughts in the hopes she will actually "like" one of the solutions I propose and we can actually begin mediation which should only take two sessions.

I am reading "Stop Walking On Eggshells," "Splitting" and Bill Eddy's "It's All Your Fault" trying to understand how to "work" with her uBPD and HPC personality and get us to the finish line without going to court. "Splitting" advocates doing everything in our power to stay out of court and I really want to although at the same time I have come to terms with the fact it might by unavoidable. Court will destroy us. I know it will. I will be fine emotionally, but when all is said and done I could be financially ruined. If everything I am trying to do is in his best interest of my son how am I supposed to take care of him if I am left broken after fighting her in court? In a state where mom's are favored already and given the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention... .I would probably destroy her in the process by having to refute predictable false allegations with hard evidence she is the one disturbed and abusive.

I am trying to find a therapist that specializes in BPD so I have a "coach" for better lack of words, but also so I can vent and process in a healthy way the pent up anger and frustration I am feeling while literally trapped at home and in this limbo state between a marriage that is over and divorce. We are still living together (in separate rooms and not having sex) because I am afraid to move out in fear of going to court and that being used against me and she literally can't cope with me being gone.

I'm done with co-dependency, but yet I'm still stuck in it.

Any resources for finding therapists or professionals in my area that can help me navigate the road ahead and avoid making decisions based on emotion?

Just needed to vent... .thanks for listening.

Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[scraps66]

As far as the personality consideration goes, mediation would have never worked for me and would still be going.  My exuBPD/NPDw is the one that can give me no satisfaction for anything, will always go opposite of what I want and suggest.  A form of emotional and psychological abuse.  I would like to know - a foolhardy exercise, those that did successfully go through mediation to a resolution, what compromises were made and how long did the process take.  I would imagine huge concessions were made to arrive at a verdict and it took a long time.  Only way I can see the process moving swiftly would be if the STBexBPDw had another fish on the line and needed to be divorced to trap the next target.

[worriedStepmom]

That's frustrating.  It sounds like it could be months before she might be ready to begin the process - and only then if she's managed to order the rest of her life to make sure she can reach her divorce goals.  All the while she has you in the house to take care of things.  Pretty sweet for her.

Is there a timeframe for when mediation has to start?  Is there anything you can do legally to compel it within any timeframe?

With her specific personality, do you think she WILL actually agree to anything in mediation, or will it be more wasted time while she delays and turns down every solution that doesn't give her 100% of what she wants?

What does your L think your case would look like if you went to court?  Does your L have a plan for you to get out of the house that doesn't require mediation?  If your wife will truly fall apart if you are out of the house, it sounds like that would be pretty good evidence of her inability to be a successful parent.

[cdwspyder]

worriedStepmom without a lot of backstory I did start everything off by filing and even tried for a restraining order. I called those dates off because her family pleaded we do mediation and I guess I "fell" for it---or it let my heart strings get pulled---not knowing then that she was uBPD and what I would be up against nor does her family even know or believe me about the extent of my issues with her in our marriage.

So... .here we are ten weeks later.

Thankfully my probate court date was simply rescheduled for April 2019 after my L let the court know about mediation "agreement." My uBPDw is aware of it, but I"m sure she has forgotten, so I might remind her in a week or so. That is seven months away however... .and I can't do this for that long.

She wants nothing more than to keep the house so I've had a thought of just saying i'll stop paying the mortgage is she stalls since we are slowly burning money anyways and by April might literally be broke other than my income which just makes ends meet. My only concern is that is a threat/negative feedback and I doubt she'll respond to it well unless I do it in a non-threatening way.

As far as I am aware moving out of the house will work against me if this goes to court, but I'll ask my L again if other options are available. Even bringing up baby steps like closing our joint checking and opening our own checking accounts triggers my uBPDw so I'm not even sure a reasonable conversation about moving out while she "figures it out" is in the cards. Plus I am afraid she could then withhold my son from me more easily.

[ForeverDad]

Well, without a court order stating otherwise, she can withhold your son whenever she feels like it.  As a general comment but one likely to apply just about everywhere, without a court order stating otherwise, both parents are considered to have equal but undefined/unspecified rights as parents.

That didn't work out well for me... .we separated while my son was a preschooler.  She withheld him for 3 months before I managed to file for divorce and get a hearing to set a temp order.  She kept him with her all the time.  She didn't use a day care and he did not attend school.  Police were of no help, they said "Come back when you have an order in hand from the court."  When I asked what would happen if I tried to see my son and she called police, they replied, "Then we'll come rushing."  Silly me, I didn't want to get arrested on trumped up Bad-Man claims so I waited for court.  Once there, the magistrate simply said, "I'll fix that."  I got no make up time.  She got no consequences.

Don't feel cheated.  Most of us walked away from mediation with empty hands.  Mediation was more of a delay than anything else.  (The only positive from it was that we got an idea of what our stbEx really wanted and what might be alleged in court.)  A truism here is... .If you are at the start of a case and reach agreement in mediation then you probably Gifted Away far too much.

Our typical advice is to keep the case on the front burner while you try mediation.  After all, most courts start with a temp order and second is mediation.  So we do have to make a good-faith attempt at mediation.  However, giving mediation 7 months is far too long.  Tell your lawyer to move the case up sooner, much sooner.  With her demands - and the requirements if she is to keep the house - there's no way she'll qualify in the allotted time left.

Depending on how long you've been married, she may get some alimony but the fact is that most states view alimony as short term assistance to the disadvantaged spouse to bridge into post-marriage life.  (In my case I paid alimony for 1/6 the length of my marriage.  Usually the very max is for 1/2 the length of the marriage, often much less.  As I said, alimony is not seen today as long term support, it's transition support.  However, expect her to milk it for all she can.  She will guilt you, "It's for the kids... .They need a home... . How can you do this to us?... .etc.

Every time you're before the professionals, whether mediation or the court, it would be wise to take a stance that she needs to start earning income ASAP.  What I did was make sure that my ex was assessed imputed income comparable if she were employed.  All the court did was assess her as though she was making minimum wage, but it was vastly better than the little she was really making.  It probably didn't reduce my child support much, but I did feel better that in some small way her feet were held to the fire, so to speak.

If neither of you can separately maintain the expense of your house then face the facts... .it must be sold.  (The sooner the better, there are reports that the housing market may have already peaked.  If so then the more delay, the less equity you two will have to split.)

While she will be all emotional about it, the fact is that (1) many families move and it's not the End of the World and (2) a house is not a home, it's the place where you live.  Let's reverse those words... .Your home is wherever you live, maybe an apartment or condo or whatever.  Kids adapt.  They'll surely adapt better than her.  (Oh, that's the secret, it's all about her, her fears, her manipulation, her ultimatums, her demands, her terms, etc.)

We're not telling you to be mean, you're just addressing the facts.  Ponder the reality and decide what you have to do.  Then do what you have to do.  Yes, it won't all work out as you hope but it's a better tactic than waiting and appeasing her.  You know how that's going and it won't end well.  You can't afford to be the only income earner with divorce pending and wait on her to figure out her life.  The longer you're in what must be a relatively expensive home, the more money burned which could be better used to unwind the marriage.  (Said politely.)

Also, you don't need her agreement or signature to get your own bank account.  (Joint credit cards are a sticky issue and more difficult to deal with if the ex refuses to stop charging for non-family expenses.)  Years ago when my marriage was starting to implode, my ex refused to sign my 401(k)'s acknowledgement for a car loan.  No obligation to her, just acknowledging the J&S survivorship rules.  No signature, no loan.  There I was, car bought and no money.  I got a bank loan at a higher rate of course, but they required me to repay the loan from an account at their bank.  I moved my paycheck there, oh did she howl and demand I undo it.  In essence I said, you refused to sign a mere acknowledgement, you made me do it to pay for the car, you live with it.  She caused it, I had to be the immovable object facing her irresistible force.

There's a word for that... .Boundaries.  It's not a boundary on your uncooperative spouse, she'll trash any boundary.  "Do this or don't do that" will fail miserably with her.  Rather, boundaries are for you.  For example, "If you do ___ or don't do ___ then I will ___.  Just make sure any of your boundaries are defensible.  You want to be able to stand in court or elsewhere knowing you weren't totally unreasonable.  (A little unreasonable might be okay though if you can defend it. )

[worriedStepmom]

She wants nothing more than to keep the house so I've had a thought of just saying i'll stop paying the mortgage is she stalls since we are slowly burning money anyways and by April might literally be broke other than my income which just makes ends meet. My only concern is that is a threat/negative feedback and I doubt she'll respond to it well unless I do it in a non-threatening way.

As far as I am aware moving out of the house will work against me if this goes to court, but I'll ask my L again if other options are available. Even bringing up baby steps like closing our joint checking and opening our own checking accounts triggers my uBPDw so I'm not even sure a reasonable conversation about moving out while she "figures it out" is in the cards. Plus I am afraid she could then withhold my son from me more easily.

Simply stopping paying the mortgage will hurt your credit score, too.  I wouldn't do that if you can avoid it.  Is there no way to get temporary orders before April?  If the house is a  financial strain and your wife has no leads on a job, then you might be able to get the judge to order it to be sold.

There is no reason that you shouldn't start taking steps to disentangle your lives.  Separate checking accounts.  Separate phone plans.  Separate car insurance.  She will be incredibly upset  (heck, my non-personality disordered ex who actually filed for divorce was very very upset that I got my own checking account and phone plan the week he left), but she's going to find something to be incredibly upset about anyway if you continue to move forward with the divorce. 

She might withhold your son now over something like that... .or she might withhold him over something else.  It doesn't sound like she intends to be reasonable and work with you.

[ForeverDad]

Some things you can do (and others you can't do) during a divorce.  For example, I don't believe one spouse can drop the other spouse from heath insurance during a divorce case.  Once the decree is final then you notify the health insurance company and they'll give notice to the ex to exercise COBRA rights (paying 102% of full insurance cost for oneself) or to find another carrier.

Your lawyer can advise you what you can and can't do.  No one will stop you from opening an account for yourself and sending your deposits there.  (The spouse may demand that you don't but that's pure entitlement and control, there's nothing legal to stop you.)  The only concern they might have is that you'll stop paying for family expenses that you've previously been paying.  Or that you're hiding what is considered marital income.

If you continue funding the joint account there is nothing to stop the stbEx from deciding one day to drain every penny from the joint account.  It's joint after all.  And court won't get involved, it will assume that such maneuvers will be addressed in the financial part of the divorce near the very end of the case.  Usually it's a rush job and the lawyers will almost surely shrug away your request to get the marital split adjusted to account for ex's prior financial misdeeds.