Updates that are overwhelming

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hello everyone,
For anyone who does not know my story, I have two SIL's (SIL 1, SIL 2) who have BPD tendencies as well as a MIL with BPD tendencies. While there is a lot to get into in terms of history, here is where we are right now: we are on "speaking" terms with everyone. We have gone NC with both SIL's in the past, but are attempting communication now. SIL 2 lives in the same city as me and after we let her back into our lives, she has violated boundaries in the past ie. showing up outside my house, happening to be in my neighborhood, etc. She tends to go in spurts of needing to see my H for weekends in a row then doesnt seem to care to reach out. SIL 1 we went longer NC, but my H is not the object of her affection, it is my FIL.  We are simply tools for her because we have a great relationship with him and my step MIL. SIL 1 made an effort to reconcile, and I took her word for it. She has reached out in an awkward way since then, which I am thinking has to do with her BPD and that she doesn't really know how to have good relationships. She tries texting me saying she hopes I have  good week.  Nice?... .yes. Weird?... .very much. We have no relationship. She destroyed any trust between us and these messages while they are harmless, piss me off. I don't believe she really cares about me and why not text her brother? Why me? It's bizarre. 

I knew communication would amplify around now for several reasons: it was recently our 2 year anniversary (our wedding was a hard/emotional day for both of them... .their words at the time), it was recently my birthday, and the holidays are nearing. They hate how much my H does for me for our anniversary (it really isn't a lot but we do celebrate) and for my birthday. Like clock work, the messages started rolling in to me from my MIL and SIL 1. SIL 2 sent my H a lot of messages when she knew he was away for a work trip.

Here is the kicker and the thing I am REALLY struggling with: SIL 2 told my H while he was away that she and her BF are moving.  They are renting a house less than 2 blocks away from us. Up until now, they have been living in the same city, but a different neighborhood. Her BF got a job in a different state and she works closer to where their place is now so the location makes no sense logistically.

My immediate reaction was WHY? My H is convinced that our lives will not change. I am not. While I realize I cannot control where people move, this feels like such an invasion. Out of all the places to move EVEN IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD... .why less than 2 blocks away? I am so scared of her incessant texts and calls. My H asked what I am really afraid of and I felt like I could be totally honest with him in that convo (he's gotten protective of them in the past). I told him that both his sisters actively tried to break us up. The year leading up to our wedding was complete hell. Emails, phone conversations, etc all attempting to convince my H that I am crazy and that we should not get married. There is proof in writing about how especially SIL 2 (he is her always painted good person) wanted us to break up. I had to remind him that even before he proposed, he told her about it and she told me. She ruined his surprise. I can't ever forget the things she did.

I don't want her this close to my life. I own my own business which is about 5 min away from our house. My neighborhood has been my safe place. I love it here and now... .I don't know what to think. I am trying to not let my mind go to the worst place, but I can't help it. My worst fear is honestly me losing it on her. I have NO patience and this feels like a completely calculated attempt to force herself back into our lives.

We live in a building so there is a slight level of security, but she could wait outside. She is going to try to be involved in our almost everyday lives and I can't do that.

I am looking for validation to be freaked out/upset/angry about this and am I looking to how to handle seeing her.  Right now, if I see her I WILL loose it but that helps nothing.

[Furbaby Mom]

Hello everyone,
For anyone who does not know my story, I have two SIL's (SIL 1, SIL 2) who have BPD tendencies as well as a MIL with BPD tendencies. While there is a lot to get into in terms of history, here is where we are right now: we are on "speaking" terms with everyone. We have gone NC with both SIL's in the past, but are attempting communication now. SIL 2 lives in the same city as me and after we let her back into our lives, she has violated boundaries in the past ie. showing up outside my house, happening to be in my neighborhood, etc. She tends to go in spurts of needing to see my H for weekends in a row then doesnt seem to care to reach out. SIL 1 we went longer NC, but my H is not the object of her affection, it is my FIL.  We are simply tools for her because we have a great relationship with him and my step MIL. SIL 1 made an effort to reconcile, and I took her word for it. She has reached out in an awkward way since then, which I am thinking has to do with her BPD and that she doesn't really know how to have good relationships. She tries texting me saying she hopes I have  good week.  Nice?... .yes. Weird?... .very much. We have no relationship. She destroyed any trust between us and these messages while they are harmless, piss me off. I don't believe she really cares about me and why not text her brother? Why me? It's bizarre. 

I knew communication would amplify around now for several reasons: it was recently our 2 year anniversary (our wedding was a hard/emotional day for both of them... .their words at the time), it was recently my birthday, and the holidays are nearing. They hate how much my H does for me for our anniversary (it really isn't a lot but we do celebrate) and for my birthday. Like clock work, the messages started rolling in to me from my MIL and SIL 1. SIL 2 sent my H a lot of messages when she knew he was away for a work trip.

Here is the kicker and the thing I am REALLY struggling with: SIL 2 told my H while he was away that she and her BF are moving.  They are renting a house less than 2 blocks away from us. Up until now, they have been living in the same city, but a different neighborhood. Her BF got a job in a different state and she works closer to where their place is now so the location makes no sense logistically.

My immediate reaction was WHY? My H is convinced that our lives will not change. I am not. While I realize I cannot control where people move, this feels like such an invasion. Out of all the places to move EVEN IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD... .why less than 2 blocks away? I am so scared of her incessant texts and calls. My H asked what I am really afraid of and I felt like I could be totally honest with him in that convo (he's gotten protective of them in the past). I told him that both his sisters actively tried to break us up. The year leading up to our wedding was complete hell. Emails, phone conversations, etc all attempting to convince my H that I am crazy and that we should not get married. There is proof in writing about how especially SIL 2 (he is her always painted good person) wanted us to break up. I had to remind him that even before he proposed, he told her about it and she told me. She ruined his surprise. I can't ever forget the things she did.

I don't want her this close to my life. I own my own business which is about 5 min away from our house. My neighborhood has been my safe place. I love it here and now... .I don't know what to think. I am trying to not let my mind go to the worst place, but I can't help it. My worst fear is honestly me losing it on her. I have NO patience and this feels like a completely calculated attempt to force herself back into our lives.

We live in a building so there is a slight level of security, but she could wait outside. She is going to try to be involved in our almost everyday lives and I can't do that.

I am looking for validation to be freaked out/upset/angry about this and am I looking to how to handle seeing her.  Right now, if I see her I WILL loose it but that helps nothing.

[Panda39]

Hi Furbaby,

That anger and upset seem to me to be a pressure to be more involved with your SIL than you want to be.

What I'm hearing is FOG and Boundary Busting that's likely why you are having the discomfort here.  And I would be stressed too if (in my case) my SO's uBPDxw decided to move in down the street! 

She tries texting me saying she hopes I have  good week.  Nice?... .yes. Weird?... .very much. We have no relationship.

Weird how about Fake that's how I would feel about this.

FOG... .Obligation, SIL - I'm being nice to you so you have to be nice to me.  Boundary Busting, SIL - I want to get emotionally closer to you than you want me to. Then throw in the I also intend to get physically closer and yeah, you're freaking out. 

Then when you enforce your boundaries around how much contact you have with her she will pull out the Karpman Triangle & up the FOG... .She'll be the victim (she was just trying to be nice, boundary busting her way, much too far into your life), you will be the mean persecutor (but you didn't respond to her fast enough to each and every one of her 50 texts in one afternoon your not being a good SIL), and then she'll bring your husband on the triangle to rescue her (side with her... .FOG), and split you black. And try to Pit you against your husband (FOG)  Making her the rescuer 

I think you see what I see or something similar, and you are anticipating it... .dreading it.  It doesn't sound like your H sees the problem and that's hard too... .not being validated and not a united front.

What can you do? What do you control? You and what you do.  In spite of my hypothetical scenario I think this is about holding your boundaries.

Maybe you can talk to your husband about this in terms of your boundaries and that you intend to continue to maintain a polite but distant relationship with his sister, and that you anticipate some conflict due to enforcing your boundaries around what is comfortable for you.  That you hope that the two of you can present a united front should your SIL start intruding too much into your life. You could let him know how you intend to enforce your boundaries so he knows what you're doing when you're doing it.

Step away from the ledge, you got this!
Panda39   

[Furbaby Mom]

FOG... .Obligation, SIL - I'm being nice to you so you have to be nice to me.  Boundary Busting, SIL - I want to get emotionally closer to you than you want me to. Then throw in the I also intend to get physically closer and yeah, you're freaking out.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Then when you enforce your boundaries around how much contact you have with her she will pull out the Karpman Triangle & up the FOG... .She'll be the victim (she was just trying to be nice, boundary busting her way, much too far into your life), you will be the mean persecutor (but you didn't respond to her fast enough to each and every one of her 50 texts in one afternoon your not being a good SIL), and then she'll bring your husband on the triangle to rescue her (side with her... .FOG), and split you black. And try to Pit you against your husband (FOG)  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) Making her the rescuer  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Panda39: no one has ever broken this pattern down in this way for me. I have learned about FOG and the Karpman Triangle, and even understood boundary busting, but this... .this actually clicked. Wow. I have always wondered how her fake niceness played into all of the things and it is obligation. It is kindling she is staking up just ready to throw into the fire when things don't go her way. I have seen it before, which was the situation that made me really reach out for help and eventually lead me to this site. Thanksgiving after our wedding I was attacked. She had emails (of course only the ones that made her look good, not the nasty ones she sent), texts saved from years past, pictures from social media accounts that she felt were personal attacks, etc. It was a drastic attempt to create a Karpman Triangle. It was her attempt, even after our wedding to show my H that she would in fact be the one to rescue him from a life with me.
No wonder I am so scared. It has happened, it IS happening. I try to remind myself that it is a mental illness, but a piece of me struggles because that takes accountability away from her. Accountability or not though, she's making the pattern play out. I have to actively stop it from happening again. My H and I have done a good job so far despite the fact that he falls into FOG many times.  The guilt gets him every time.

I wonder what your thoughts are on me explaining to him what you explained to me? I have tried to talk to him about FOG and all, but I also am cautious about it because I am a therapist and I try to not lecture him about mental health stuff.

My mind is blown. I feel oddly justified in my emotions because suddenly I can see that even though everyone does not think the pattern happens when the girls are calm, in fact the pattern IS happening. Patterns will continue to exist until one or more parties actively change them and I know the girls are not changing them... .they don't see it so they can't change it.

Thank you. I feel so much better.

[Panda39]

I'm glad I could help you see a pattern, it really helps to see what's going on behind the surface.

I see the same thing with my SO's uBPDxw, she's stuck in a feedback loop repeating the same dysfunction behaviors over and over and yes after awhile you see the pattern.

Once you start seeing the patterns it's easier to respond.  So now you see the "set-up" and have an idea of what might be coming, but what to tell your husband?

I go back to my original post... .

Maybe you can talk to your husband about this in terms of your boundaries and that you intend to continue to maintain a polite but distant relationship with his sister, and that you anticipate some conflict due to enforcing your boundaries around what is comfortable for you.  That you hope that the two of you can present a united front should your SIL start intruding too much into your life. You could let him know how you intend to enforce your boundaries so he knows what you're doing when you're doing it.

Do you think he would accept hearing the whole pattern?  It could be viewed as you attacking his sister.

You might also try breaking it into parts.  Hey hon, I received a lot of texts from your sister today and it's starting to make me feel pressured to have more contact with her than I am comfortable with. I don't need you to do anything about it but I've had to set up a boundary around how many times I respond to her.  I just wanted you to be aware because she might not be too happy about it. Not bad-mouthing his sister, staying off the triangle, maintaining your boundary, keeping your husband informed.

I would also have a discussion with him about your boundaries as an individual and couple if she does in fact move closer (if she's like my SO's uBPDxw... .she may talk about a lot of things that never come to fruition - here's hoping  )

I'll be interested to see how other members would tackle telling or not telling your husband.

Panda39

[Harri]

Hi.

Wow, Panda did an great job of breaking that down!

As for telling your husband, I think you can if you feel it would be okay, but I would keep it simple and use I statements.  It is okay for you to have a different kind of relationship with his sisters than he has.  He needs to see things himself and I think watching you set limits, say no, stay off the drama triangle, all will help.   Trying to get him to see what you see may backfire, so I am with panda on this... .break it into parts.  I really like her suggestion.