Recovery: Has the idea of being a "good person" ever been a prison for you?

[aslowrealization]

As I walk this realization and boundary-setting road, I'm starting to notice that some of my fear around revealing less-than-positive relationships with family members and setting boundaries comes from internalized beliefs about what a "good person" is and does. As a single, isolated woman I do not have any other relationships to "prove" I am still "good" even as I limit contact with family... .so my mind can go to some very dark places if I'm not careful. But when I look closer... .I see that what's there is the voice of my uNPD mom (backed up by a lot of societal expectations) saying that it's important to be "good" and "well-liked" and not to do anything that might make someone dislike us... .ever. On top of that, with this realization, I'm now learning that some of the things I've done that have resulted in me being written off as "not a good person"... .are normal, human things that we all have a right to do and that should not result in our entire character being flipped or painted black or written off as "no good."

But there's still a part of me that really fears the "not a good person" label... .even when I might need to learn to accept that there will be some people who will choose it for me. It's hard to break away from the thinking and feeling that to be disliked by one or even many people does not make one completely unlikable... .or even that being unlikeable isn't the worst thing a person can be (and is it even possible to be objectively unlikeable? and while we're on that, why does my mind jump from "not a good person" to "unlikeable" in the first place?)

Have any of you grappled (or are you grappling) with this? What has helped you work through it?

[risingtide]

I found that I had to focus on the person I knew myself to be as opposed to the person who may be reflected back at me from various funhouse mirrors.  Being "good" is different from being "likable." Likable or unlikable is a label provided by others based on their perception of you.  I like to focus on being good.  On being responsible, on being professional, on being respectful, on being appropriately responsive.  If I am all of these things, I am "good."  And I don't need anyone else to validate that.

[once removed]

when we live our values (our boundaries come from our values), we are being the best version of ourselves.

do you know what your values are? are you living them?

[aslowrealization]

That’s a helpful distinction, risingtide, between “good” and “likeable”... .as far as being a responsible and respectful human being to others around me, I generally think that I do this... .but there’s a part of me that’s always conscious that my own assessment is subjective and places someone else’s invisible (possibly imagined) standards above my own.

once removed, I’ve been doing some work to identify my core values in life... .writing out a short list of things that usually float around in my head but have been guiding my actions and choices for some time now. I haven’t been trying to force anything out of the list but rather just focus on recording them as they come up naturally in the course of a day. Where I struggle is that a lot of my values tend to be broader (such as no human being is more valuable than another) rather than based on specific relationships (such as “family first” - not my value but an example of one someone may hold), so sometimes I get lost in assessing whether my actions align with my own values.

[JNChell]

aslowrealization, this is a really good post. Thanks for bringing it to the board.

so my mind can go to some very dark places if I'm not careful.

I relate to what you’re saying here. Our thoughts can keep us and throw us off balance if we allow it. My thoughts may have thrown me off balance currently. I just need to be patient and talk about them. I’m confident that that will help. You mentioned being isolated and single. Is there anyone outside of your family that you can lean on? Do you have face to face support?

[Harri]

Hi.  Yes, I struggled (and maybe still do) with this issue. 

I said I maybe still struggle because I don't know what still lies buried within.  For me it was/is a matter of me really believing I was unlikeable and unkind and whatever other bad thing there is to apply in this situation.  It wasn't a matter of me taking on someones definition or view point of me. 

I am not sure there is one thing that helped me through all of the lies that were a part of me.  It has taken years to break down the belief that I am evil and less than.  years in therapy, working here and a lot of work on my own. 

I do think differentiation made a difference for me.  Knowing that I can have different opinions, different experiences and still have them be valid.  allowing others the same freedom.  They don't have to like me not do they have to think I am kind... .and I do not need to keep trying to prove that I am likable and kind.  In other words, knowing where I begin and end in relation to other people and allowing them the same freedom. 

(such as no human being is more valuable than another)

  This is actually a good value.  The flip side is that no human being is less valuable than another.  That truth applies to you as well.   

[aslowrealization]

Thank you, JNChell. I hope the post and responses can be helpful to others working through these things... .it's something I've dealt with for a long, long time but could never find the words to explain it until now.

Harri, I can relate to what you are saying about feeling that you are unlikeable and unkind deep down... .from the time I was very little, my uNPD mom has engrained this assessment of me as some selfish, self-involved person who "knows how to get what [she] wants" and always "goes [her] own way"... .she kept this in check with several parables from my childhood (how I reacted when I found out my sib was on their way, how I made her buy some expensive dress in a department store when I was like 3, and pretty much any time in life when I've made my own choices... .right down to when I told her that I would not be flying out for her surgery earlier this year). For a long time, I really believed it, without seeing it as coming from her... .I just thought she was observing the truth as "mother knows best" and all of that... .and, to an extent, I still do... .part of it, I admit, also comes from religion. I wasn't religious growing up but am now. In my religion, everyone is supposed to have a calling in life (a "vocation")... .which, essentially boils down to marriage or religious life (like a priest, or nun, or monk, etc.). Single life is considered one if it is "generous" (meaning you are very involved with ministry, make significant donations of time and money to the less fortunate, care for relatives' and friends' children or elders, etc.). Until this year, due to a physical condition (the one that I almost revealed to uNPD a few months back) I have had very little energy and, most days, couldn't do more than go to work and come home, and getting through the day was a struggle. I am getting a bit better now with treatment but as a largely introverted person who doesn't earn a huge living and has quite a bit to work through emotionally before I can give joyously and generously in any way... .those old feelings can resurface.

I've talked with my T about this a bit and even raised it on a religious message board once... .it helped to hear some people say that not all of us are called to the same things at the same time, and healing (as many of us know) *is* work in and of itself. But, as you mentioned, it's also important to allow others that space to have different opinions of you. There are going to be some people who think I'm selfish... .no matter what I do. They have the right to hold their own opinions, but that doesn't condemn me to being objectively unlikeable and unkind, as it can feel like it does when it comes from someone or something with authority over you, such as a parent or religious community.

[Harri]

Hi.

I am so sorry your mom distorted your view of you and who you are as a person.  It is so difficult to overcome.  We may always struggle with this at times though.  I know I still do.  I also get very angry sometimes, that she did that to me and that I made significant life choices on her distorted view of me. 

I am not religious at all, but at one point I did go to church and spent some time exploring a couple of religions and beliefs systems.  I like this:  "healing (as many of us know) *is* work in and of itself."  Yes, I believe this.  Some people accomplish this through marriage and family, others through good works for others.  And some, like us, work on healing and enriching our spirits.  (not finding the correct words... .what I wrote sounds trite).

[Panda39]

It's really hard to get past those negative messages that we internalize when we are children.  I don't have a BPD mom but do a have a controlling critical mom.  My messages... .I was not smart enough and I was not good enough. 

I historically had two reactions those messages.  The first was to try and prove I was smart and I was good and my other reaction (when I was a teenager) was to give into her messages and be what she thought I was... .you think I'm not smart then fine, why should I go to school (I missed pretty much all of 9th grade) and if I'm not good enough then I won't be good (cut class, did drugs, lost my virginity at 14, ran away from home... .).  Neither strategy worked.  Why? Because neither was me, the authentic Panda.  Both were me trying to prove something to my mother.  I spent about 45 years trying to prove to her that I was good enough and smart enough.

At 47 I had a series of breakdowns and breakthroughs... .tied to a past relationship that never healed and the death of my marriage.  For a year I worked through these two relationships and healed from them.  The past relationship reinforced that I wasn't good enough and so I married the wrong man.  I married an alcoholic and used my co-dependence to step on my husband to feel better about myself.  I was sober = good, I was a responsible parent = good, I made more money than my husband = good, I managed everything = good.

During this time I had a group of what I thought of as casual friends step up and support me in a big way.  In my vulnerable state, I learned to trust, and I was being my true authentic self.  I came to realize that I was lovable just the way I was.  My mom's opinion wasn't everyone's opinion of me.

In digging deeper, I realized that my mom was perpetuating a message that she received, and her mother before her had received.  You are not good enough, and beyond that, you aren't as good as your brother.  I also realized that appearances are really important to my mom and she looked at me as a refection on her, she didn't and still doesn't really know the real me.  Knowing me isn't what it's about for her.  I will never be what she wants me to be and she will never be who I need my mother to be.  I have accepted that and am okay with that.  She is human and not perfect and neither am I.  We are both doing the best we can with what we know. 

I no longer believe those internalized messages from my childhood and don't try to validate the invalid message.  I am good enough and I am smart enough... .I am enough.

You are enough.

Panda39

[aslowrealization]

Harri, I actually read one that said that the healing work, like what we on these boards and many others for many different reasons, do is not only work, but work for the community. And that those of us who are working to become more aware of our behavior patterns and working to grow in how we relate to others and the world around us have a healing effect on the community of people around us as a whole. So it is not selfish navel-gazing... .it really is how we can work to make the world a better place, just as much as volunteering or ministry or donating money. I think I will always struggle with the message from my religion that I am "less than"... .there simply isn't a lot of room for acknowledgement that people like me are worthy and there is always a hierarchy (not in the matter of church leaders, more among women, such as nuns > mothers > wives w/o children > engaged women > coupled women who are "doing it right" > single (including divorced or widowed) women who are very involved/super service-oriented/outgoing and sociable > coupled women who are "doing it wrong" > single women who are introverted and/or w/o a big ministry... .the secular version looks something like married mothers w/ careers > married stay at home moms > divorced/separated women with children > married women without children > divorced/separated women without children > never married single women). There are so many messages about who we should be in faith and what a strong faith looks like. Sometimes the only thing that keeps me in my religion is knowing that my relationship with God exists outside this hierarchy of womanhood and that He is the only one who truly knows me and values me far, far more than any earthly organization ever could.

Thank you for sharing your journey, Panda39... .I'm glad you were able to find healing after living under that criticism and messaging from your mother for so long in your life 

[Harri]

Sometimes the only thing that keeps me in my religion is knowing that my relationship with God exists outside this hierarchy of womanhood and that He is the only one who truly knows me and values me far, far more than any earthly organization ever could.

I can't think of a belief system that honors God more than this really.  Hold on to that.  Posting here and sharing your story is a way to help others too.  My mom used religion and God to control and abuse me but I still believe, but I don't trust man's interpretation of God.  Reading what you wrote here has had me thinking about my own beliefs on this all day so thank you.  I tend to keep God at arms distance and I spent some close up time with him today thanks to you.

We also have lots of people who never post but do read and benefit from your posts.  So please do remember that when thinking of how you help/serve others.  Posting here in your own threads and to others is volunteering a very special part of you and that is a good thing.   

Like Panda said, you are enough even without all that.  You also have a powerful voice that you have been using here.