Grief of going NC with uBPD/uNPD mother

[alphabeta]

It's been about a month since I've posted a message on this board, which is around the time I decided to go NC with my mother.

I had had LC with her for the past six months when I visited her therapist to discuss what to do with our relationship.  The therapist said that my mother saw our problems as a consequence of our different personalities - whereas she is an extrovert, I am an introvert - and upbringing - whereas she grew up in a Latin culture, I grew up in an "Anglo" culture.  Consequently, in order to have a better relationship we would have to learn to be mindful of these differences.

It is true that we do have different personalities and upbringing, and I am fine with this.

The problem is that her behavior has been inappropriate and hurtful to me and the people around me.

Within the last year alone, she has threatened me that she would commit suicide more than five times because I am married to my wife, yet, at the same time she said that she didn't want us to have a divorce.  She also told me that because she felt abandoned by me, she would commit suicide and that this would have the effect of driving me to suicide due to my guilt.  She has insulted me for hours on end and has told me that I am arrogant and immotionally immature for wanting to end the conversation. 

She has told my son that he is the most wonderful thing in this world and that she loves him more than his mother, yet has threatened to leave him and kill herself if he doesn't show the affection that she had given to one of her grandmothers.  She has even assaulted him by throwing him to the ground while carrying him and pushing him off her lap so hard that he flew across the coffee table.  When I have told her that if she wants have a better relationship with my son, she needs to curb her reactivity and filter her language around him, she has blamed me and my wife for the terrible parents we have been and, on one occasion, even threw several coffee mugs at me because I brought up the topic.

With my wife, she has gone so far as to call her a sociopath, insulted her in many different ways (about her ethnicity, country of origin, her way of coping with stress, her emotional immaturity, etc) and told her that she is basically inferior and should thank God that she is married to me.  During the past two years, she told me that if she were a man, she would have already smashed my wife's head into the wall, and the last time we saw her, she pulled my wife's hair and pushed her in order to force her way into our home.

After going to therapy, I have realized that this type of behavior exhibited by my mother is toxic -- in the past, I had thought that her behavior was a consequence of her personality and grew up learning that this type of behavior was "normal" and even "healthy." 

I wanted to see if there was a way to reduce these toxic episodes and improve our relationship, and we went to two "conventional" therapists to see if we could do this.  Unfortunately, my mother would go into the therapist saying that she was incredibly emotionally aware of herself and that I was not -- therefore, I was the problem.  When the therapist questioned her decisions to conduct the inappropriate behavior, my mother would become defensive, and say that the therapist and I were ganging up on her.  This would drive her to storming out of the session, and, ultimately, she quit therapy.

Now that I am not contacting her, I feel much more emotionally liberated and have a lot more time to focus on my family and myself.  Nonetheless, I still feel guilty that I am not there for her -- she must be feeling a lot of pain in order to react in such inappropriate ways -- and feel sad that I may not see her anymore.

Do others here share the same feelings?

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi alphabeta,

It's nice to hear from you.  I had wondered how you were doing.

This time of year brings up strong yearnings for family and the time of missing what we don't have. You are right there in the midst of this. Yet as we know from growing up with someone who has BPD, those feelings don't ever really go away. They nag at us incessantly, just like our parent did/does in real life. The voices inside of us are hard to stop because we have been so trained to hear and respond only to them. We assume we are guilty for stepping away because we feel guilty. In reality I believe we must question and requestion those voices. Are you guilty of wanting to protect your son from emotional and physical injury? Your wife? Yourself?  There is usually an element of truth in the things being verbally thrown at us, so let's consider your situation. Yes, you are guilty of wanting healthiness and safety for you and your family. That is something that everyone of us should be guilty of seeking! Guilt does not need to imply wrong but a pwBPD uses it as something wrong, and we believe it. I have been exploring the topic of control with my T. There is good control and bad control. Is stopping at a red light a form of good control, and is stopping your child from running out into the street good control? Yes, those are good and healthy forms of control. The same applies to feelings of guilt as in what I mentioned before. It takes looking at each situation indiviually to discern the deeper truths behind them.

It's often helpful to look at a parallel situation and see what you think. If you heard that your best friend's mom was doing what your mom is doing, and that your best friend's mom had thrown a small child across the table and wanted to kill him, how would you respond? When I look from another perspective, I have seen with greater clarity and focus how much my uBPDm influenced my thoughts.

Looking forward to hearing what you think.

 
Wools

[JNChell]

Hi, alphabeta. Glad you’re back. Before I get into the meat and potatoes of your post, I’d like to say that in my time here, I’ve observed that it has been most helpful for members to stay here and interact with each other on a regular basis. Sometimes members turn to this community when they’re experiencing a crisis. It’s best to stay with us through the ups and downs. There’s a lot to discover when there isn’t a crisis at hand.

Within the last year alone, she has threatened me that she would commit suicide more than five times because I am married to my wife, yet, at the same time she said that she didn't want us to have a divorce.  She also told me that because she felt abandoned by me, she would commit suicide and that this would have the effect of driving me to suicide due to my guilt.  She has insulted me for hours on end and has told me that I am arrogant and immotionally immature for wanting to end the conversation.

This is a difficult situation. Has your mother always been this jealous of your relationship? Do you feel like she has relied on you to take care of her emotionally?

She has told my son that he is the most wonderful thing in this world and that she loves him more than his mother, yet has threatened to leave him and kill herself if he doesn't show the affection that she had given to one of her grandmothers.  She has even assaulted him by throwing him to the ground while carrying him and pushing him off her lap so hard that he flew across the coffee table.  When I have told her that if she wants have a better relationship with my son, she needs to curb her reactivity and filter her language around him, she has blamed me and my wife for the terrible parents we have been and, on one occasion, even threw several coffee mugs at me because I brought up the topic.

How often does your son see her? This isn’t healthy for your child and you and your wife should not allow it.

she pulled my wife's hair and pushed her in order to force her way into our home.

What did you do when this happened?

[zachira]

Many of us feel so hurt that we can never have a healthy relationship with our mothers with BPD and NPD, and have no choice but to reduce our contact with them to limit the continuing accumulation of long time hurt and anger to ourselves and our family members. Your mother's destructive behaviors really are about her having BPD and NPD, and have little to do with her being Latina. I have lived most of my life in the Latino culture. Do you have any specific questions about how BPD/NPD might look different in the Latino culture? What country is your mother's family from? I can think of some things, though they may not be at all relevant because everyone is an individual despite their cultural background. Can you give us a list of your highest priorities right now?   

[Harri]

Hi.  It is okay if you feel guilt.  It will take time to break through feeling responsible for her feelings and all the stuff associated with family, culture and what it means to be a good son.  On top of that you have all the emotional stuff you learned growing up and interacting with a disordered parent.  All of that takes time to work through and come to a place of acceptance.

I am sorry I don't remember.  Have you ever gone to individual therapy for yourself?  I ask because sometimes that can help identify areas of attachment with her that you might want to address.  A lot of us here do go to T so you would not be alone in that.

[alphabeta]

Hi alphabeta,

Are you guilty of wanting to protect your son from emotional and physical injury? Your wife? Yourself? 

Hi Woolspinner,

You make a good point.  My therapist understands that I am aiming to be a "good" person by taking care of my mother.  However, she says that without even thinking of it I am "bad" in some ways.  For instance, I have a job, and to a person who is unemployed, I can be considered as being bad. 

After taking a step back (which took a long time and a lot of therapy), my aim is to protect my son, wife, and myself.

It's often helpful to look at a parallel situation and see what you think. If you heard that your best friend's mom was doing what your mom is doing, and that your best friend's mom had thrown a small child across the table and wanted to kill him, how would you respond? When I look from another perspective, I have seen with greater clarity and focus how much my uBPDm influenced my thoughts.

Looking forward to hearing what you think.

I agree that I would tell a friend to stay away from their mother if they did what my mother has done.  I have even ended a relationships with friends/girlfriends for verbal insulting me (without the emotional and physical threats).

Thanks for reaching out.  I really appreciate it.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi alphabeta,

Always good to hear your updates. I know you don't post too often, but have you considered posting here a bit more often, to help you process when the intensity is not so great? It is helpful to many of us and allows us to process when we aren't in an emergency mode. Not saying you were in crisis with this most recent posting, but it is something that we see quite often. In my own journey, I've found that I grow a lot when I am not as stressed emotionally and can take the time to grab a hold of a topic or thought and see where I go with it. My current topic of thought is truth, as in speaking truth and what do I expect if I do speak truth and who am I trying to speak it to? Those sorts of things.

What are some of your current thoughts that you are working on (if you wish to share)?

 
Wools

[alphabeta]

Hi JNChell,

Thanks for reaching out.  Yes, I agree I could post a little more frequently and hope to do so in the future.  Anyhow, here are the replies to your questions:

This is a difficult situation. Has your mother always been this jealous of your relationship? Do you feel like she has relied on you to take care of her emotionally?

Yes, my mother always saw me as a sort of father and/or spouse ever since I moved in with her at the age of 11.

How often does your son see her? This isn’t healthy for your child and you and your wife should not allow it.

My son is no longer seeing her since I went LC/NC with her.  In the past, though, my son was seeing her at least once a week and sometimes three times/week.  My mother said that because she was so lonely, she needed to see us... .

What did you do when this happened?

I told my mother that I was going to call the police (after she assaulted my wife to get into my home) if she didn't leave at that instance.  It was a very unpleasant situation, and my son is still traumatized by it.

[alphabeta]

Hi Zachira,

Thanks for reaching out to me -- I wanted to take the chance to answer some of your questions... .

Do you have any specific questions about how BPD/NPD might look different in the Latino culture? What country is your mother's family from? I can think of some things, though they may not be at all relevant because everyone is an individual despite their cultural background. Can you give us a list of your highest priorities right now?   

No, I don't think that BPD/NPD looks different in a Latin culture.  My mother grew up in Spain, and whereas it is true that Spaniards are more expressive than Americans, I see there is a distinction between expressive and [emotionally and physically] threatening.  For instance, threatening to commit suicide is serious in both Spain and the US.

Currently, my goal is to create a safe environment for myself and my family.  My son suffers from anxiety, and I have recently learned that his exposure to my mother has made his anxiety worse.

[zachira]

" I don't think that BPD/NPD looks different in a Latin culture.  My mother grew up in Spain, and whereas it is true that Spaniards are more expressive than Americans, I see there is a distinction between expressive and [emotionally and physically] threatening.  For instance, threatening to commit suicide is serious in both Spain and the US.

Currently, my goal is to create a safe environment for myself and my family.  My son suffers from anxiety, and I have recently learned that his exposure to my mother has made his anxiety worse."
 
Great answers. I think you really understand your priorities and your situation. Glad you are putting your family's safety and well being first, and realize how your son's grandmother negatively affects his anxiety.

[alphabeta]

Hi Woolspinner,

Hi alphabeta,

Always good to hear your updates. I know you don't post too often, but have you considered posting here a bit more often, to help you process when the intensity is not so great? It is helpful to many of us and allows us to process when we aren't in an emergency mode. Not saying you were in crisis with this most recent posting, but it is something that we see quite often. In my own journey, I've found that I grow a lot when I am not as stressed emotionally and can take the time to grab a hold of a topic or thought and see where I go with it. My current topic of thought is truth, as in speaking truth and what do I expect if I do speak truth and who am I trying to speak it to? Those sorts of things.

What are some of your current thoughts that you are working on (if you wish to share)?

I agree that I am not posting so often on this board. 

Furthermore, I am no longer in a crisis mode, yet there are times when guilt gets to me, and I am learning understand the rationale of going NC with my mother.

My mother has been emailing me about once a month saying that she is sorry for the pain she's caused me.  This causes me to wonder if I am being unfair to her by distancing myself.

Posting on this board helps me realize that it is okay and healthy for me to do this (for both myself and my family).

I also see that I have done a lot to make my mother realize that her actions are at times inappropriate and extremely hurtful, yet she always had excuses for her actions (and, consequently, it was okay).

Now she says that she sees that she has done hurtful things to me because she has felt lonely and abandoned.  She is apologetic and hopes that I have the empathy to accept her.

My fear is that unless she undergoes treatment for her loneliness and abandonment issues, she will continue to act inappropriately.  My wife and I can sort of tolerate this.  However, my son cannot (for his own well being). 

Consequently, hard as it may be, I am electing to maintain my distance from her.

What are your thoughts?

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi alphabeta,

I am no longer in a crisis mode, yet there are times when guilt gets to me, and I am learning understand the rationale of going NC with my mother.

It was 2010 when I first learned about BPD in a class in college. I was 46 years old, reading this one paragraph about BPD and for the first time thought I finally might have discovered what my mom had. I didn't start working on my childhood in T until later in 2012. I had FOG before then, but once I started T, I became more aware of FOG and how strongly it was present in my life. I never understood the impact until then. It is not an overnight process to step away from it, but rather a gradual process. It's okay and very very normal that you struggle with this. Our healing from our childhoods is a slow and steady progress forward. When you struggle with those feelings, that's when it's especially helpful to come here and post. I often want to retreat in my sadness and grief and isolate (hermit mode), but when I reach out, then I don't feel all alone anymore.

Just curious if you've ever read a book we have on our banner up above: Surviving a Borderline Parent ? Given the things you've shared, I am thinking you might especially enjoy the study and understanding this book offers.

My fear is that unless she undergoes treatment for her loneliness and abandonment issues, she will continue to act inappropriately.

I would agree with you here. My uBPDm has passed away now, but I see similar characteristics in my DH that were in her. Everyday I have opportunities to practice what I am learning as I work on my childhood and journey to healing. One of those things is similar to what you have mentioned, the fear of not knowing if the change is genuine. Some of the books I've read talk about how you can know if a person has really changed, and what signs you can look for. Is that a question you have as well?

Wools

[alphabeta]

Hi Woolspinner,

It must have been reveleratory as well as difficult to realize that your mother had a personality disorder after 46 years; I am over 40 as well, and am at once happy to be liberated from the shackles of mental illness as well as sad when looking at my past.

Our healing from our childhoods is a slow and steady progress forward.

How has the healing process been for you?  Are there any specific indicators that you have healed? 

I have started having a hobby for the first time since my childhood.

Just curious if you've ever read a book we have on our banner up above: Surviving a Borderline Parent ? Given the things you've shared, I am thinking you might especially enjoy the study and understanding this book offers.

No, I haven't.  I will have some time off from work for the holidays and can read it soon.

One of those things is similar to what you have mentioned, the fear of not knowing if the change is genuine. Some of the books I've read talk about how you can know if a person has really changed, and what signs you can look for. Is that a question you have as well?

Yes, this is a question I have.  My mother sends me messages and tells me that she is a completely changed person.  However, when I spoke with her therapists (two of them thus far), it appears that she is just saying things to "charm" her way back into my life. 

If you have any other book recommendations, it would be very appreciated.  Thanks so much for your support and concern!

[JNChell]

Hi again, alphabeta. I’m sorry for my delayed response. I tend to bury myself here in a way that makes it hard to keep up.

So, your mom placed a caretaker role on you. I imagine that you’ve given this plenty of thought and realize that that role should’ve been reversed. The damage is done, but you have a sound mind. Going LC is a good idea IMHO. It gives you space. I’m curious what your thoughts have been when it comes to your mom within the space that you’ve given yourself?

Yes, my mother always saw me as a sort of father and/or spouse ever since I moved in with her at the age of 11.

This is a heavy burden. When you try to withdraw from this role, I imagine that you experience extinction bursts from your mother. I’m only speculating, but have you been drawn back into her bubble by extreme emotional episodes in the past?

Your mom also deploys FOG (fear, obligation, guilt). I’ve seen the guilt in your post. She needed to see you and your son... .Identify it for what it is.

I’m happy to read that you are protecting your son. You’ve stated that he’s still traumatized. What measures are you taking to remedy this? Don’t allow his trauma to be absorbed by his core. It will only fester and resurface in manhood.

[alphabeta]

Hi JNChell,

Sorry for my delayed response, too.  My wife and I decided to take a holiday from everything for the holidays, and we took an impromptu road trip.

To answer your question, yes, I am coming to realize that my mother could have been more of a care taker than the other way around.  I am not bitter about this and don't blame her, though.

Going LC with her has made me take a step back and see what our relationship has been like -- in the past, my aim was to appease her so as to avoid the drama (screaming, crying, throwing things, and suicide threats) if things didn't go her way.  Now I feel as though I have been manipulated and emotionally abused -- I also see that my mother has emotionally and physically abused others who were close to her, like my wife, my son, my uncle, my grandmother, and several close friends of hers.

When I have retreated from being her caretaker, it would result in her saying that she felt abandoned and/or rejected, and that she was going to kill herself.  I would then come to "save her", and absorb hours of her rants and raves, after which she would tell me that I was the most wonderful person on Earth.  After about ten bouts of this (which therapy with her with two different therapists) did not quell, I couldn't handle it anymore, as they were emotionally painful and draining.

Now, although I am sad that neither me nor my son are seeing her, we are much more at peace.  About my son, he is currently in therapy, which is helping him a lot.