How to deal with wife’s changing facts?

[chico3:16]

Three years ago, I agreed to go to marriage counseling with my wife. I am not perfect and I have my own junk to work through but I always knew that my wife’s behavior, ADHD, depression, chronic pain and EXPLOSIVE temper was a major issue in our marriage. We have met with two Marriage counselors now (she refused to go back to the first one after he began to realize she was the major problem in the marriage) and both of them told me in private sessions that they believe my wife had BPD. The first counselor suggested I study up on DBT Therapy and really did not go into BPD with me much before my wife objected to me seeing him on my own. Our second marriage counselor has now met with me privately now twice and just shared with me that she believes my wife has BPD. I have been reading up on BPD over the past week. I never knew such a diagnosis existed. I am reading “I Hate You, Don’t Leave Me” and “Walking on Egg Shells”. I never realized that my wife’s issues were a diagnosable condition. I have joked for years with my close friends about my wife being “crazy” but now her behavior is beginning to make a little more sense to me. I hope and pray that this new diagnosis will help me gain some better control over my own life and emotions and then put me in a better place to deal with my wife and to help my three kids to deal with her.

I would love to get some advice on how to handle the situation when my wife revises history, facts, narratives, etc...and starts making stuff up. Dealing with an explosive temper is hard enough, but dealing with lies, manipulation of facts, etc...is something I am struggling with. Advice from anyone who has been successful in dealing with this?

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[itsmeSnap]

Hey chico

Welcome to the boards!

I would love to get some advice on how to handle the situation when my wife revises history, facts, narratives, etc...and starts making stuff up

There are some general "rules of thumb" you can use, most of it revolves around understanding the underlying "thought/emotional process" that leads to it and being prepared for it instead of trying to "correct the facts" or argue who got what wrong on the spot. We have an article that touches on this and a few other themes here:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict
Give it a read for a bit of a primer.

If you want we can talk about a specific event to see how you can apply it. was there a recent event of her making stuff up? can you tell us what happened in one particular event where this happened?

[Turkish]

Hi chico3:16,

I'd like to join itsmeSnap in welcoming you here. 

I agree that it would be good to start with a specific example or two we could work with.  The lessons at the top of the board are a good place to start.

You mentioned an explosive temper. Do you generally feel safe?

[Radcliff]

Let me join itsmeSnap and Turkish in welcoming you.  itsmeSnap has some great advice on ending conflict.  It may be hard to let go of the need to argue the facts, but once you get used to it, it can be liberating.  As you'll read in the books, for pwBPD, emotions=facts.  An effective approach can be understanding that your wife's emotions are real to her, and address her emotions rather than facts.  One particularly useful tool is validation.  To learn more about validation, take a look at this excellent page on how to validate and avoid being invalidating.

Turkish had a good suggestion to look at one or two specific situations to see if we can help you figure out more effective approaches.

RC

[chico3:16]

Thank you for the replies!  To answer @itsmeSnap - Yes, I generally feel safe.  It is very rare that she physically lashes out at me and the kids.  However, verbal and emotional weapons are her go to method to hurt me.  

The small false accusations that I can just ignore are easiest for me to deal with.  Typically I ignore these or I will simply respond with “OK <Spouse’s Name> that is not how I see it”, but the false accusations that involve our kids, Example:  Our oldest daughter takes depression medication.  I work, spouse is a stay at home mom.  I give medication during the school year, and wife gives during the summer.  In the summer, I am at work before our daughter gets out of bed and during the school year, she gets up with me.  She falsely accused me of not watching our daughter take depression medication for two weeks during the summer time that was the lead up to our daughter contemplating suicide.  The triggering event for my daughter had been my wife’s interaction with her while I was at work.  I came home from work to find my daughter a complete mess and my daughter asking me to get her out of our house so that she did not need to be around her Mom.  The false narrative never came into play until 6 months after my daughter’s crisis.  My wife repeatedly blamed me for something that I did not do and did not contribute to my daughters issue.  This event was to serious for me to just go along with her narrative. But my wife was adimment that I was partly to blame because she believed that I was not ensuring our daughter took her morning medication...and I was at work in the morning.

The small stuff that does not matter to me, I ignore, the big stuff, I try to correct her and it only makes her dig her heels in when I try to set the record straight...

[itsmeSnap]

Hey chico

Sounds like you got lot of very stressful things going on.

Since there's medication involved for your daughter I assume you have a therapist who you can contact in case things get out of hand like this, make sure to reach out to them.

Also, we have these:
Domestic Violence Safety Plan (PDF)
Suicidal Ideation Safety Plan (PDF)

Just a friendly reminder and sort of erring on the side of caution.

Anyway, as to the "digging their heels in", you have to understand that they're very emotional at the times when they lash out, and even the " I don't see it that way" can be perceived as an attack/retaliation.

From what I learned here and what's usually recommended is more along the lines of "I think I'd feel stressed if I felt like things were like that too".

The goal is to acknowledge that 1)they are feeling like  2)that you can relate to the emotion, even if you don't agree to their facts, and 3) that you are willing to work with them despite the high emotional state, that you still have your cool.

This is validation, and its kinda difficult to get right. Some people agree to their twisted thoughts " I'd feel terrible too if I were on your shoes", others validate the invalid "I know youre angry and feeling like throwing things, you are the right to be angry", and other quirky things less severe but still invalidating.

Ok so as to not make this into a lecture, a question: can you tell us how you handled that episode with wife and daughter? I'm assuming she's ok but want to check in with you just to make sure

Hope to hear from you

[Radcliff]

With respect to the issue with your daughter, that is a serious issue, and I understand your desire to set the record straight, but were you effective in doing so?  Healing past misunderstandings and wounds is a skill set taught in marriage counseling; it's a good thing to be able to do, but it can be difficult or impossible with a pwBPD.  One of the bits of advice given in high conflict situations is to focus on improving behaviors and working together in the future.  Many times this can be worked out even if past disagreements cannot be resolved.  Does this approach seem like it might be helpful in your situation?

You say your wife rarely lashes out physically.  Can you tell us what happened the most recent time she lashed out physically, and what the worst incident ever of her lashing out physically was?

RC

[Teno]

I would love to get some advice on how to handle the situation when my wife revises history, facts, narratives, etc...and starts making stuff up. Dealing with an explosive temper is hard enough, but dealing with lies, manipulation of facts, etc...is something I am struggling with. Advice from anyone who has been successful in dealing with this?

I found reading about boundaries and manipulation tactics helped me. My lack of knowledge here really disadvantaged me. Boundaries, Henry Cloud, John Townsend; In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People, Book by George K. Simon.

If it helps, this my work in progress.

A friend once said when his SO(non BPD) changes the subject he would say: 'Stick to the point'. Just making that mental note helped me see how the original topic changed. It gives me a breather, I react less, can step away mentally and a chance to discuss the actual point. Else I'm in conflict about something totally different without realising.

I used to be more scared of the reaction I might get when I point out the obvious. I weaned it in over time. The trick for me is not to invalidate my SO or wanting to point out the obvious or win the argument when I say 'stick to the point' (I would time and pamper the statement). Even if I can't say anything(avoiding unnecessary conflict) , then it is just my mental boundary and I look at how it all unfolds. It is hard to catch the half truths as they happen, it is just uncontrollable anyway. I just acknowledge: I can see how it makes you feel.

Best Teno

[chico3:16]

 @itsmesnap - So the episode with my daughter was tough...I ended up leaving the house with my daughter and we went to the ER.  Upon evaluation at the ER, she was admitted to a Behavioral Hospital and was released about 3 days later into my care.  Since then she has been seeing a therapist and a Psychiatrist that has really helped her.  She is doing much better in a number of different areas in her life.  I believe my daughter is on a good path right now.

 @Radcliff - The physical violence thankfully only happens maybe once every one to two years.  Generally breaking things in the house or grabbing someone.  The worst manifestation was about two years ago, she grabbed my oldest daughter (same one I was talking about above) while she was sitting in a wooden chair.  She pulled the chair over backwards, slamming it into the floor, (breaking the chair) and then dragged my daughter out of the chair and across the floor.  My daughter did not suffer any real physical injuries, just emotionally impacted.

My wife rarely lashes out at the kids in this manner.  Mostly her anger is manifested towards me.  I feel I have to have perfect speech and perfect reactions towards her in order to prevent an outburst of anger.

 @Teno - Thanks for the suggestions.  I will look into those books.  I just finished reading “I Hate You, Don’t Leave Me”, “Walking on Egshells” and “Loving Someone with Bordeline Personality Disorder”.  All were very good and helpful.

[Radcliff]

That's a pretty serious incident with the chair and your daughter.  How old is she now?  How old are your other kids?

When you described a false accusation involving the kids you used the example of her saying you hadn't given your daughter depression medication.  Is most of the conflict between the two of you, perhaps about parenting, but not with the kids as active participants?

RC

[itsmeSnap]

She is doing much better in a number of different areas in her life.  I believe my daughter is on a good path right now.

Great to hear 

I hope and pray that this new diagnosis will help me gain some better control over my own life and emotions and then put me in a better place to deal with my wife and to help my three kids to deal with her.

Back to the original post you made, I think this is indeed going to be about your own reactions to it, but not as "don't let it get to me" as people can go numb emotionally from that, more like "ok, so this is happening, I know what a good and a bad reaction looks like, lets try to go with the good one"

It doesn't always happen, but you can gain confidence the more you practice.

When a crisis/conflict happens in BPD there's usually something going on that gets blown out of proportion, which in turn tints their view/memory (as in literal brain processes of "recall", its not just a convenient narrative) of past events in the same overwhelming negative emotions they are currently experiencing, which leads to the "rewriting history".

From https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24032011-300-memory-special-how-can-two-people-recall-an-event-so-differently/

Beyond individual brain differences, there are other reasons why two people might have conflicting memories of the same event. Their emotional response to it is one.

And its not just the emotional response when "the event" happened, but also at the time of remembering it which influences it. BPD is notorious for off the rails, heightened emotional responses, hopefully you can understand how this process of "rewrite" comes about.

First is to not engage in a "arguing" over revised facts (see the article "Don't JADE" on what I mean by this and how to improve on that front), but to recognize it as "there's something going on that upset her, and its probably not what she's talking about"

Ok so I'm mentioning a lot of concepts much too fast maybe, does this make sense?

I second Radcliff's question: what's the usual cause of conflict? does every/most conflict lead to revised events from the past?