BPD? "People-pleasing?" Codependency? NPD? Something else?

[bobpine]

Hello,

This is my first post in this community. I had an on/off, on/off romantic relationship with a woman for several years whom I felt very, very close to and was considering possibly marrying, but there ended up to be so much miscommunication and so much confusion that I ended up being suicidal and questioning my sanity. I entered counseling --- a first for me --- and when some of my counselors suggested that perhaps my ex had BPD, I thought I'd reach out to the community here. I am open to sharing more of the dynamic we experienced in our relationship, but I'm more interested in knowing if I can expect more of an honest conversation than I have received from her.

My ex's background (let's call her Sally):

Parents always fought growing up, dad was a real jerk and left the family when she was 11 or so. He had weird issues from Vietnam and was probably gay in the closet. Mom would be stoic and stare out the window. They are separated for 30 years but never got a divorce. Sounded like my ex was treated like the black sheep and had a sister who she felt was the golden child whom she still longs to be like, decades later.

Before we started dating, Sally told me "some girls will wear a mask in order to attract a guy and then will resent the guy for being attracted to the mask instead of the person underneath. Sometimes the girl doesn't even KNOW who they are underneath. It's an act of hatred against men."

I thought this was very wise and insightful. However, it sounds like this is literally what happened in our relationship.

In our last argument where it came out that she had been dishonest about some important things, I gently told her that her actions had really hurt me and that I had been suicidal, questioning my sanity, and ended up going to see counselors. I reassured her that I was not trying to condemn her or trying to "get" her ... .but she immediately says "But you GOT ME! Youuuuuu got me --- I'm a LIAR, I'm a LOSER ... .do you want a GUN so you can SHOOT me?"

This kind of response really hurt, because I was being very vulnerable in the moment. It felt like she was turning the tables because now I felt guilty for telling her how I felt. She said she did had acted this way because of "people-pleasing" and that she didn't know the first thing about relationships. I said I felt disappointed and deflated that she had never shared this with me before. In response, she simply said, "Welp, I gotta go."

I decide to block her number because I'm tired of this. Several months later, at work, I decide to unblock her number, but in doing so I accidentally call it. I freak out and cancel the call, but it goes through and she texts me "It was evil to defraud you, please forgive me." I text back and say "I'd rather not talk about this on the phone." No response. I text again and say that I was trying to forgive and that I was sorry for saying or doing anything that had hurt her. Still no response.

A little while later, I found out through a friend that Sally had written a post on social media about how she had used manipulation tactics to keep someone --- me --- close for fear of losing them and had been deceptive and dishonest. Why not share this with me? I don't understand, especially since Sally would get angry with me for coming back to her to try things again and accuse me of having bad motives! So she's admitting to using manipulation to get me back ... .but then accusing ME of having bad motives for coming back! Is this projection? It feels abusive.

Help! Any advice would be great. I would love to be able to sit down and have an honest, transparent conversation with Sally, but I have a feeling that this would not be possible. She is an award-winning school teacher, so it's hard for me to fathom how someone who can be so competent at navigating a relationship-heavy occupation can be so bad at this kind of relationship.

[once removed]

hi bobpine and

nah, its exasperating in the best of circumstances when someone makes things about themselves and gets melodramatic like that.

so what happened? what actions of hers were you talking about in the last argument?

[Mutt]

Hi bobpine,



Id like to join once removed and welcome you to bpdfamily. I'm sorry to hear about the confusion on how she left in a depressive state.

To answer your question if it's projection  it could be projection it could be that she has trust issues it sounds like she grew up in a dysfunctional environment BPD can develop because of your environment, if her caretakers were abusive you're going to have a difficult time trusting people.

[JNChell]

Hello, bobpine. I’m sorry that you had to find us, but I’m glad that you did. I’d like to join once removed and Mutt in welcoming you aboard. We’re a peer based group that talks about our concerns and supports one another here. I recommend reading some threads and poking around the site to settle in and get comfy.

I ended up being suicidal and questioning my sanity. I entered counseling

How are you feeling now? I empathize with you and understand these feelings. I’ve been there. Counseling is a great thing to get yourself into after experiences like you’ve went through. Do you find yourself feeling better after your sessions?

I am open to sharing more of the dynamic we experienced in our relationship, but I'm more interested in knowing if I can expect more of an honest conversation than I have received from her.

Just to be clear, are you asking about a conversation within this support group, or from her.? If it’s from this group, you’ll receive much more than honesty. Just let us know what direction you’re wanting to take here.

The more that you’re willing to open up, the better. You might be surprised at how similar your situation is to the other members here.

We can’t diagnose anyone here, but her behaviors seem to be very off balance and typical of a pwBPD.

I would love to be able to sit down and have an honest, transparent conversation with Sally

Were you able to achieve this with her when you were very close to her? In your past experiences with her, what would this meeting look like? Do you see honesty and transparency?

[Mutt]

How are you doing Bobpine?

[bobpine]

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your replies. Soon after I had made my initial post, I got a call to work as a contractor which involved 14 hours days. I had a couple weeks of vacation before I think about getting back into it, and I wanted to get back to this forum to see if I had any replies. I'm sorry I hadn't responded sooner.

JNChell, thanks for asking about the suicidal stuff -- I have not felt suicidal since early 2016, thank goodness. It's been helpful talking to counselor and many others.

If you and others were willing to listen to a longer account of 'S' and my relationship dynamics, I'd like to share, but I'm not sure anyone would still see this post! Please let me know so that I'm aware this post has been viewed.

Again, sorry about the delay. :-/

[once removed]

If you and others were willing to listen to a longer account

the more we know, the more we can help 

[Vexed]

Well in my r/s I was not allowed to be vulnerable.

I think it's because of how intensely and easily BPDs feel Shame and guilt.  Anytime she did something wrong (even if not to me) or hurt my feelings it would immediately bring on anger towards whomever she wronged.  Then that person/thing becomes the one who is wrong because they angered her.

So standard game in our rs:

She would wrong me, I would feel terrible, she would sense that she hurt me, which in turn would make her angry at me for making her feel Shame/guilt.
Now it's my fault for angering her.  And if it was really bad she will go cry and then really hate me "for making her cry".  Now I'm the a-hole that's apologizing for her hurting me. 

Fun stuff.  But I think it's the same thing that happened to you.  A frown on your part can set them off.  So talking about suicide with them is on a whole nother level. 
 

[Cromwell]

So standard game in our rs:

She would wrong me, I would feel terrible, she would sense that she hurt me, which in turn would make her angry at me for making her feel Shame/guilt.
Now it's my fault for angering her.  And if it was really bad she will go cry and then really hate me "for making her cry".  Now I'm the a-hole that's apologizing for her hurting me. 

Now was it really heartfelt apologising or had it become just a last way of having to appease and keep a lid on the behaviour?

There was no more authentic emotional intimacy left, because the r/s was more about firefighting and troubleshooting - doing the best to avoid a simmering bad moment turning into a boiling over catastrophe.

[bobpine]

Vexed:

WOW! I think you may be onto something there in my past relationship. Is that what "R/S" means? Thanks for your thoughts.

Once removed:

So, if I wanted to kinda lay out the whole story, is this the right place to do it? Or do I do that on another group somewhere? I'm at the place now where I feel a bit more emotionally detached but would probably still be triggered if I saw her in public, especially at a smaller venue.

[once removed]

this is the place to do it. we are listening.

[bobpine]

Great! This is my first time interacting with an online therapy/support group, so thanks for bearing with me.

Here's my story. I include a lot of talk about Christianity if anyone is triggered by the subject.

I met Sally, let's call her, about eight years ago at a very small church in the small city I live in in America. Because both the city and the church were small, the community felt very close and we all did things together on a regular basis. As I got to know Sally more and more, I was impressed with the time she spent serving people in the community, giving rides to strangers in need, buying gifts and spending lots of money blessing people in need. She would always surprise people with gifts and compliments and was always making friends with poor, homeless, and desperate people. She was an award-winning teacher and was smart, creative, and was full of a fun, silly energy. I was a bit insecure around her because she seemed like a "super Christian" who was always talking about doing some kind of ministry opportunity, but she seemed to enjoy talking to me.

As I got to know Sally better as a friend, she told me about her chaotic background. She had grown up as the second child but oldest daughter of 5 children. Her parents consistently fought so much that all the children apparently wanted them to divorce. That never happened, but the father did leave the family when Sally was around 10-11 years old. The parents never divorced, but the father was no longer in the picture. It sounded like he had some significant emotional issues from Vietnam and the children gave a strange, dysfunctional picture of their early life. Because they lived in a tiny town, Sally felt like her family was the black sheep of the town that everyone knew was trouble.

The family literally lost all their money around the time the father had left them, forcing them to move into a broken-down farmhouse. Sally told me that she longed to connect with her mom during this time but her mom would just stare out of the window, showing no feeling. Sally's father nicknamed her mother "the corporal."

In high school, Sally said that she was a "chameleon" who changed her entire personality to fit into different groups. In her early 20s, she was married for two years to a man who was apparently a real jerk, and she had four abortions with him that she hid from his knowledge until around the time she divorced him. During this time she was also addicted to painkillers. Shortly after their divorce, she became a Christian and her drug addiction completely disappeared.

I had met Sally more than a decade after all this ended, and she had explained that she had gotten reconciliation from her father and healing from her past. Over a few years, she and I grew very close, and our mutual friends told us that we lit up around each other. We served people together, had long conversations about everything under the sun, and she was my cheerleader as I traveled around the country in pursuit of various opportunities. I considered her a trusted confidant and loved spending time with her and talking with her. I liked her fun personality, admired her commitment to God, and. I thought she was a smart, adventurous, honest, tell-it-like-it-is person (though a bit full of herself). I also thought we had a lot in common: we each came from small towns, met Christ in our twenties, lived with plenty and with nothing, had overseas experience, and loved other cultures. I also thought we had similar enough personalities while complementing each other with skillsets and experience the other person lacked.

In the beginning, she often seemed to take generalized statements as personal insults or criticisms, and I'd have to reassure her that "No, I'm not talking about you." At the same time, I'd notice that we could have a great conversation on Monday and I'd feel really close to her, and then on Tuesday if I spoke to her she'd feel aloof and distant. I'd give her a couple days, thinking something was wrong, and on Thursday or Friday we'd feel close again. I asked her why that was happening, but it seemed like she didn't know what I was talking about.

Along these same lines, Sally seemed a bit unpredictable—some days she was high energy, confident, and full of herself (almost a rebellious, devil-may-care attitude) while other days she seemed discouraged, sad, and quiet. Even the way she dressed seemed to be all over the place sometimes. A lot of times, she'd wear bland, shapeless, mismatched clothes that seemed like she was trying to either hide from the world or to be conspicuously unattractive. This was strange, since she was very attractive, very athletic, and people regularly told her she looked 10 years younger than her age. For a long time, I just assumed she didn't know how to dress that well. It wasn't a big issue. But then she would randomly wear outfits and put herself together in a way that made it very clear she knew how to look presentable! She did say that in her "wild years" she'd strut around in a bikini top and cutoffs just to get attention, so I figured she was just ashamed of her past. Now that I think about it, though, if you're ashamed of your past, then you haven't really gotten healing from it, right?

Anyway, at the time I figured everyone has their insecurities and their ups and downs. Sally's insecurities seemed to calm down the more we got to know each other. However, I still didn’t like the way she could talk about herself as a shallow, screwy, messed-up goofball. It felt demeaning, since the person I saw was an intelligent, thoughtful, sensitive woman. I couldn’t tell if she had any interest in me as more than a friend, and I thought she was out of my league since she kind of seemed like a “super Christian” who wanted to slum it and live out of a backpack in the jungle or something. But I couldn’t stop thinking about her, so one day I told her I was interested in being more than friends and that I wanted to pursue her romantically. She freaked out (in a cute way) and thankfully said yes. We were both excited.

Unusually, about a day after the relationship started, Sally called me and said that that evening when she was watching a Western film, God suddenly spoke the word "ABANDONMENT" to her. We talked about it for a bit, but it didn't seem like she knew what that would be referring to, and I told her that I didn't have any intention of abandoning her. Obviously I was naive about the whole subject. However, I do remember hearing a lot of "You need someone more confident, more intelligent, more athletic" from her.

As you may gather, we were never able to get to a stable place in our relationship. This surprised me because I felt like we had had such a firm foundation to build upon with our friendship and spiritual unity. I wanted a deeper emotional connection with her, but it felt too shaky for me to ever be comfortable calling us boyfriend/girlfriend. The feeling of on/off connection also made me feel like she wasn’t even interested in me, so I would decide to call things off and we would separate for a little while to get some distance. Afterward, when we spoke, she would tell me that she HAD been very interested in me, and when I asked why she was elusive or guarded, she answered it was most likely because of a unspoken expectation I didn’t fulfill. This made me want to try harder next time, which I did.

This began a pattern: the harder I tried and the closer we got, the more I’d step on invisible emotional land mines and we’d have a fight about X. Then, a week or two later, she’d be talking positively about X as if she never had a problem with it! When I asked her about this, she’d laughingly apologize at overreacting in the past, and if I pressed her on it, she’d ask why I’d want to re-open old wounds. This felt a little strange, but I figured every relationship has its trials and ups and downs. You shouldn't just cut and run when you have issues, especially when you have years of building a foundation with someone. But those ups and downs kept getting stronger and stronger as we went along to where she once told me, “I would have married you in a heartbeat!” That hurt and confused me since I just felt like I was constantly offending her and doing the wrong thing! But it encouraged me and got my hopes up. But then, when months later I told her I didn’t want to lose her, she said, “Bob, you never had me,” and that we were never really dating! That really started messing with my mind.

When I tried to express my confusion about hearing X but getting Y, she said she felt like I was doing open heart surgery and that I was too critical and judgmental for her to feel like she could be herself around me. This was also confusing, since she used to tell me how good I was at making her feel loved and encouraged! She told me she felt like I was leading her on and "opening up her heart" only to criticize her. I felt awful. It was a one-two punch combo because (1) I felt like I was losing her and (2) it was all my fault. This continued to mess with my mind even more, since she said she “likes to do things in the light.” Problem was, every time I brought something into the light, it felt like I got attacked!

1.5 years later, during one of our “off” periods where I was trying to make things work with her, she suddenly told me she was dating another guy (whom she had told me in the past had been making creepy sexual advances toward her). I was devastated, and expressed my frustration at all the changing expectations over the years, to which she blew up and said, “Well show me a woman who really knows herself and I’ll fall down and worship at her feet, Bob!” She said she felt abused and “couldn’t talk to me for a long, long time.”

I fell into a deep depression, was suicidal for a while, went into debt, and thought I was losing my mind: one moment, she was saying she couldn't “be herself” around me because I was too critical and judgmental, but the next moment she’s telling me that she doesn’t even know who she is? What was going on? This wasn’t in line with the woman I thought I knew, and it scared and confused me. At this point I had ended up moving across the country to live with a friend to save money and recover from multiple surgeries I had gotten on my legs. I was poor, working retail in the ‘hood, knew hardly anyone in the area, and felt very, very alone.

A year later, I found out from a friend that Sally and her boyfriend had broken up and that he had gone to jail for possessing crack. What the heck? I decided to call her to see if I could get some answers about what the hell had been happening with us, since some time had passed. She answered the phone as though I was a long-lost friend (which was super weird after being called abusive a year earlier), and we had a 5-hour conversation about everything under the sun, just like old times. But in the course of our conversation, it came out that she had not been honest about her attitudes (or maybe changing attitudes) toward some sexual expectations we had talked about after she had developed cervical cancer while we were dating and had to get a radical hysterectomy. We'd never slept together or had sexual contact, but she ended up rejecting me, saying that I "wanted to have sex with her like 20 times a day" and that I just needed someone younger. Then she goes and dates some guy that had already made a bunch of creepy sexual advances toward her in the past. What the heck.

I gently reassured her that while I wasn’t trying to condemn her or “get” her, her behavior had really hurt me. But she immediately blew up and said “But YOU GOT ME, Bob! Youuuuuuu GOT ME! I’m a LIAR, I’m a LOSER, what do you want? A GUN so you can shoot me?”

What the heck.

That basically ended the conversation and I blocked her number. I was hurt, confused, and felt used and discarded, like three years of my life had just been wasted. Then several months later, when I decided to unblock her, I somehow accidentally dialed her number, then freaked out and immediately ended the call. She quickly sent a text message back: “It was evil to defraud you, please forgive me.”

I was amazed! It was an apology! What do I do? What the heck was "defraud?" I decided to reply, “I’d rather not talk about that on the phone.”

No response.

My friends and parents encouraged me to try and just let it go, saying that she probably just didn’t know what she was doing. Then, a couple months later, I found out through a mutual friend that Sally had made a social media post to her Facebook friends (at the time of our argument over the summer), confessing to being “charming,” “deceptive,” “people-pleasing,” and “using manipulative tactics” to keep someone close out of fear of losing them. I was never meant to see that post (we're not friends on FB), and it made me feel like an absolute piece of dirt. Why would she say something like that publicly but then ignore the person whom she actually manipulated and deceived?

I’ve been trying to take the advice of my current counselor and friends and family to just move on, but this past October, Sally sent me a random text message that simply said “2 thess 3:16.” I looked the verse up and it’s a passage about peace. Peace? Why the hell would she say “peace” after running away a year ago when I was willing to talk? That’s like me crashing my car into your new house (after lying to you about knowing how to drive) and then skipping town and a year later sending you a Christmas card saying “Peace, brother. God bless you.”

I feel frustrated, helpless and don’t know what to do. My family and most of my friends say to leave it alone, but one mutual friend says I should approach her and air my grievances. My counselor has said I’ve already done that several times and that when I am vulnerable, she blows up at me and then later acts like everything is fine. I don’t want to fall into that trap again. Is that what’s going on? My heart wants to say no, but my mind says yes.

I KNOW that I should not have continued things for as long as I did. I know that. But the woman I was dealing with just didn’t seem like the person I once knew. Early on in our friendship, though, Sally told me, “Some girls wear a mask to attract a guy, but then they resent the guy for falling in love with the mask instead of the real person, even when the girl might not even know who she really is! It’s an act of hatred against men.” Looking back, I think that’s basically what happened with us, and that really, really sucks.

I’ve avoided places she’s likely to be since it hurts too much to see her. I even decided to skip a friend's small wedding because she would be there. I know I need to forgive her, but it’s been really hard. I feel like I’ve been pressured into prematurely forgiving her of all kinds of stuff in the past just to sweep problems under the rug. I feel used and betrayed by someone I trusted, then punched in the face and discarded when I try to address the problem. I can’t imagine that she’d ever be okay with someone else treating her like that. She told me in our final conversation that she “doesn’t know the first thing about relationships,” but her whole teaching career is based on relationships!

As a Christian, I want peace between us and a text message confessing to “defrauding” me and asking for forgiveness seemed like a request for resolution and reconciliation, so I’m confused about why I’ve gotten only silence, followed by a random Bible verse reference a year later! It just seems so lame and feels like I don’t matter at all. I assume that if someone is repentant, they actually want to make amends, right? It’s been hard enough to try and move forward with my life after all this confusion and heartbreak, but I don’t want this feeling of “what if?” to keep lingering over me.

Thanks for any thoughts. I'm still trying to process and detach.

[Red5]

... .Sally told me, “Some girls wear a mask to attract a guy, but then they resent the guy for falling in love with the mask instead of the real person, even when the girl might not even know who she really is!... .

It is my understanding that... .the pw/BPD will also place great expectations on the Non, and of course when the Non falls short... .the Non is punished, .and this initiates a never ending cycle of ups and downs... .the “recycle cycle”... .seems the harder the Non try’s to please the pw/BPD... .that the pw/BPD will “move the goal post”... .think of Lucy and Charlie Brown and the football... .

Most of us are caretakers... .and some have been doing this for years and years... .even decades... . it is not good for your long term emotional or physical health... . you have to stay centered and grounded... .or these types of relationships will drive you down... .

I can relate to a whole lot of what you have written bobpine... .the never ending confusion and mixed signals that the pw/BPD engages in... .

I remember when I first started reading about borderline personality disorder... .it was like I had found the hidden files and “the other bullet” report from the JFK investigation... .it was like... .“so this is what has been happening”.

I also remember the first time I read “Stop Walking on Eggshells”... .

I profess Christianity as well, and so does my wife, we have been separated now since December... .long story,

Of late I have used this google search to try and find more answers and explanations... .“Christianity and borderline personality disorder”... .it’s been insightful for me,

*just be careful of what you may come across online*

Hang in there bobpine... .keep posting,

Kind Regards, Red5

[bobpine]

Thanks, Red5!

In the past, I'd read "Walking on Eggshells, " "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me," and a couple other books on BPD I can't remember. But everything seemed to indicate that someone with BPD would be really volatile and filled with rage. I didn't have any of that, but I do remember, during one particularly frustrating time, I'd Googled several symptoms we were having (confusion, mixed messages, abandonment, etc.) and some sites came up about BPD. I hadn't thought about the issue for a while but as I was reading it, it seemed to explain a lot of what we were experiencing. So, in my naivety, I emailed the sites to Sally, just asking her to take a look at them and that I thought they might be useful. As you can imagine, she was incensed and disgusted that I would think she had some kind of personality disorder. I wasn't even thinking that at the time; I just thought the information was helpful.

The strangest thing, though, was that a couple weeks after she initially got really upset at my sharing the information, she told me in passing that, well, maybe she did act similarly to what was described on those sites. The thing is, since she told me later that she's a massive "people pleaser" and has done tons of stuff just to make people feel better, I have no idea if she was being honest or if she just said that to make me feel like I wasn't a complete jerk for showing her the information.

Does this resonate with you?

I've also had to think a lot about whether or not I'm a "caretaker," and I'm not sure what I think. Most people have said I'm direct, not afraid to say "no" or to say what I feel or think, and I am usually comfortable expressing my feelings on a deeper level. I feel like I love myself and generally try and have appropriate boundaries.

I wanted to look for someone else who was at the same level, though, and that's why I have pursued two women who I think might have had BPD. They were both very intelligent, very accomplished, and seemed to have a tell-it-like-it-is attitude. It's just that when I got closer to them, the stakes were raised, and so when I started having expectations of them which were congruent with the image they presented, they reacted. By this time, however, I'd already become attached to them and so I was willing to put up with a lot more than I think I would have if I had not been enamored.

When I hear myself tell others my story, I think "Geez, if I was hearing this from someone else, I'd say WHY ARE YOU WITH THIS PERSON? IT'S NOT WORTH IT!" If it were a stranger on the street, no problem. But when you have years of memories, experiences, and feelings involved, wow. Super hard. And to hear that she wasn't really honest with me about who she was or what she wanted (whether or not it was intentional) feels like a huge betrayal, like finding out my mom had actually been having a 25-year affair with my neighbor. Let's say, growing up, that she was always next door, but when I questioned her about it, she always had some excuse that seemed to make sense ... .or she'd just get angry or blow up at me for being too critical, too nosy, too whatever.  Then let's say that 25 years later, she says something in passing that reveals she did in fact have this affair, and that all your questions had actually been legitimate. That would be hard to take, especially if she still wasn't willing to have an honest conversation about it. Now you're stuck feeling duped and lied to, but because you have a 25-year history of believing a falsehood, you are still doubting whether the affair really happened! You've been habituated to believe a false narrative, and it's really hard to get out of it. I think that's evil and abusive.

[once removed]

i think it would be a good idea to determine what you want from her.

do you want an apology? a friendship? do you want to reconcile the relationship? would you prefer to never hear from her again?

[bobpine]

What I would like most is to simply have an honest conversation with her. I want to have some kind of resolution and be at peace with each other.

[once removed]

depending on your terms, that might be unlikely.

it seems like she wants to be on good terms. but at each point that youve spoken your piece, she has felt attacked, or accused you of opening up old wounds, etc.

the last contact was her sending the bible verse, right?

[bobpine]

Yes, the Bible verse mentioning peace was the last random thing I received. Other people have said the same thing — she’s wanting to be at peace and feels attacked when I bring stuff up. I’m really, really trying to keep that mind.

But manipulating me, using me, discarding me, telling other people about doing all that, but then getting angry with me when I want to talk about it? Again, it feels like someone borrowing my car then crashing it into my house, barely missing my family, somehow escaping and disappearing, then sending a Christmas card a year later saying “blessings, peace”

W.T.F.

Still, maybe that’s what I have to do? I literally don’t know how I can be okay with that. Maybe that’s my problem

[bobpine]

Actually, the more I think about it, maybe I just need to be angry more. It feels right. I didn’t feel allowed to be angry before or I ended up thinking that it was wrong to be angry. It’s a ridiculous situation and I should be angry about it.

[Red5]

Hey bobpine,

Does this resonate with you?... .

Yes it does, very early on, back in the winter of 2016’,  it was Christmas... .I was at my wits end with her, .and I remember it, .she was standing in the kitchen, raging at me... .I was seated at the breakfast bar, just being numb, I was a new “scholar” to this BPD stuff... .I’d decided to stop fighting back,

I waved my hand at her, and said “just stop it”... .STOP IT!, she recoiled... .at my response after just sitting there for well over an hour while she went on and on... .in her “rage”... .

And then I said to her... .YOU have some kind of mental disorder... .do you hear me... .I’ve been taking notes for a while now “Q”... .then she responded... .you think you are so smart, .I AM NOT BI-POLAR, YOU ARE THE ONE THATS CRAZY!... .

I just sat there, and stared past her, and then I said... .“no “Q”, you are certainly not pi polar... .no, you are a borderline... .a borderline... .you are have borderline personality disorder”... .this is why you rage at me... .this is the problem”... .

... .she stopped, got quiet... .she stabbed me with her eyes... .

... .then she left the kitchen, went to the bedroom and slammed the door... .

Bad move on my part... .very bad... .the readings all say to NEVER do this... .

Yes, it’s resonating... .

We’ve been separated now for almost three months... .and I find myself missing her terribly... .in my mind I have white washed the past eleven years... .and I’ve tried to explain away that day she struck my son in a BPD rage... .

I want her to come back home, I’m smarter now you see (?)... .I think I can handle her, handle it... .the BPD... .

I now see what’s its like to not have her here with me in this house... .

She has stage four cancer... .and I am very sad, sad that I’ve let her down... .and then there’s my son, .yes, I’ve been a caretaker for a long time... .decades my friend.

I was married before, for over twenty years to my sons mother, also a deeply troubled lady... .

I’m tired... .but I still hold out hope, that I can fix it all, and bring us back together again... .for what time she has left.

I pray in the morning when I wake up, before the sunrise, I pray throughout the day, and before I go to bed late at night, I get on my knees by my bed, I bow my head... .and I beg the Lord to bring her back home, and heal the hurt.

Yes, bobpine... .it resonates.

Hope you are well this evening... .

Kind regards, Red5

[once removed]

one of the hardest lessons ive had to learn is that the person i feel hurt by may not be in any position to heal my pain, or necessarily even acknowledge it as i would like.

Actually, the more I think about it, maybe I just need to be angry more.

stage one of Detaching is to acknowledge the feelings. stage two is to then probe the feelings - to explore them in a way where we are both present with them, and stepping aside a bit from them (observing them).

anger is certainly a part of all of that processing. it requires healthy outlets. creative writing was one of my favorites. i could be vicious, or i could be cutting and clever, which felt like "justice" to me at the time, and didnt hurt a soul.

at the same time, anger is complex, when you probe it. you may even find that some of it is toward yourself.

[Tsultan]

Bobpine  ,

I think it's a really great start that you have acknowledged your feeling of anger and that you are trying to work through that feeling.  Feeling our feelings is so crucial to recovery. 

I was not allowed to be angry in my 2nd marriage, an emotionally painful marriage which lasted 24 years.  I never considered him to have BPD but I think it's a possibility.  He had childhood trauma.  He would not leave physically but he was emotionally checked out.  He gave me the silent treatment and withheld his love to punish me.  My heart still feels the ache from that.

I met someone after that marriage who I would say had BPD although I am not qualified to dx but all the behavior is spot on.  We dated 3 1/2 years and he left the r/s so many times I lost count.  I would be the one to contact him almost every time.  He was a teacher and was also very good with the students.  He comes across as someone who tells it like it is.  That is what I liked about him.  There were no airs about him.  He came across strong and confident.  He could be a great listener except when there was emotional weight attached to the conversation for him.  He discarded me one final time and won't respond to texts or phone calls.  I saw him twice on the trail and he acts like nothing ever happened.

He used to tell me I am a puzzle.  It pissed me off at first and I took it personal because I have never had anyone talk to me like that but after about the third time I didn't internalize his comment because I knew it wasn't true.  BPD's like to project onto the non.  Just because someone calls you a chair doesn't make you a chair.

Thank you for sharing your story.  It's going to be alright.  You will grow and learn from this experience.  This experience has made me a better listener and a more compassionate person.  It wasn't a waste of time.  It's all part of my journey.  I miss him and think of him still several times a day but I enjoy the peace I have in my life.  My work  life has been so busy and chaotic I cannot imagine what it would be like to be dealing with a high conflict relationship and trying to meet deadlines for work.  The balance would take its toll on me.  I would surely step on an emotional land mine and he would check out again and I would be hurt and the cycle would repeat.  I gotta step off the merry go round.

Enjoy the peace and take care.  Hugs,

Tsultan

[bobpine]

Tsultan:

Thanks for your story and your thoughts. I don't know if it feels peaceful to me but it definitely feels sad. It's very strange to miss someone a lot but to also be scared/hesitant of what another encounter might look like.

Maybe a quick diagnosis of what we were going through was: I was afraid that she'd overreact at something I said; she was scared that I'd get angry/upset at her for overreacting. So we'd just be at a standstill and never get anywhere. So frustrating. How are you supposed to have a relationship this way? Am I missing something? We should both be able to express our feelings; I get that. But lashing out, belittling, and shaming are not healthy expressions to give out or to be around.

Thanks for talking about projection, too. The thing is that it's a lot different if it's a stranger versus someone that you've come to trust. If you have a lot of reasons to trust someone, then I'm going to take what they have to say seriously. If they tell me I'm a chair, that's dumb, but if they tell me I'm too critical, or being abusive, or being crazy, or whatever, I'm going to give them a hearing.

[bobpine]

Red5:

Man, it sounds like you're going through a lot. God bless you. Thanks for empathizing with me.