My wife sent my 16 year old on an illegal car trip..the crash was his fault

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I'm about to go to bed... .this may not make much sense.  Been in emergency room most of the evening.

It appears all the teens are "ok"... just bad bruises and banging up.  Still waiting on confirmation that one may have "slightly fractured pelvis".

My 16 year old has a restricted license.  He is only allowed to have siblings in car.  Otherwise he has to have an adult with a license over 25 with him. 

My wife waited until I was gone (because I would have said no) and sent him to pick up 13 year old girls for a slumber party with my 13 year old daughter.  She was in the car with a friend and they went to pick up another friend.

He was the driver that had to stop or give way because of stop sign... .he pulled out in front of a car and got hit. 

16 year old was physically fine but emotionally shaken.  When I got to the scene I heard three girls wailing... .2 taken away (including my daughter) on gurney to ambulance and one was able to walk over. 

Not what a parent wants to drive up to.

My wife knew about the restricted license a couple weeks ago... .we had a conversation about it.

Earlier this week she declared my desire for "one flesh" to be  an "idol"... .so she was going to do what she wants... .doesn't have to listen to me.

Once we got home she started trying to rewrite history and figure out "how to get my 16 year old out of it". 

I had planned on waiting until after a good nights sleep to talk details... .but she pressed on in front of people so I said it wouldn't matter if he "wasn't at fault", because he was driving illegally and will likely be held accountable for that.

I can't imagine law enforcement overlooking that part of this.  They said they would be in touch after taking the report this evening.

My 16 year old also knew this was illegal... and didn't "stand up" to his mother. 

This will have to be addressed... .

Sigh... .I'm thankful actual injuries seem to be manageable.

BPDish stuff doesn't seem manageable.

My wife directed my 16 year old to operate his car illegally... .it's likely totaled... .and now she is trying to act shocked like she has never heard of this... .


FF

[formflier]

I'm about to go to bed... .this may not make much sense.  Been in emergency room most of the evening.

It appears all the teens are "ok"... just bad bruises and banging up.  Still waiting on confirmation that one may have "slightly fractured pelvis".

My 16 year old has a restricted license.  He is only allowed to have siblings in car.  Otherwise he has to have an adult with a license over 25 with him. 

My wife waited until I was gone (because I would have said no) and sent him to pick up 13 year old girls for a slumber party with my 13 year old daughter.  She was in the car with a friend and they went to pick up another friend.

He was the driver that had to stop or give way because of stop sign... .he pulled out in front of a car and got hit. 

16 year old was physically fine but emotionally shaken.  When I got to the scene I heard three girls wailing... .2 taken away (including my daughter) on gurney to ambulance and one was able to walk over. 

Not what a parent wants to drive up to.

My wife knew about the restricted license a couple weeks ago... .we had a conversation about it.

Earlier this week she declared my desire for "one flesh" to be  an "idol"... .so she was going to do what she wants... .doesn't have to listen to me.

Once we got home she started trying to rewrite history and figure out "how to get my 16 year old out of it". 

I had planned on waiting until after a good nights sleep to talk details... .but she pressed on in front of people so I said it wouldn't matter if he "wasn't at fault", because he was driving illegally and will likely be held accountable for that.

I can't imagine law enforcement overlooking that part of this.  They said they would be in touch after taking the report this evening.

My 16 year old also knew this was illegal... and didn't "stand up" to his mother. 

This will have to be addressed... .

Sigh... .I'm thankful actual injuries seem to be manageable.

BPDish stuff doesn't seem manageable.

My wife directed my 16 year old to operate his car illegally... .it's likely totaled... .and now she is trying to act shocked like she has never heard of this... .


FF

[I Am Redeemed]

   

FF,

So sorry this happened. I'm certainly glad that no one was severely hurt.

Have the other children's parents said anything regarding the restricted license?

Your wife can pretend to be shocked, but even that doesn't paint her in a favorable light. Parents should absolutely know if their minor children have restrictions on a driver's license, and they should know the details of the restriction. It doesn't help her case much to feign ignorance.

I'm about to go to bed, too, so I won't say much more than I will say prayers for your family and the children's friends, and thank God they are alive and not seriously hurt.

Redeemed

[AskingWhy]

 

I am so sorry this happened, FF.  Thank goodness no one was seriously hurt.

One of the things about BPD is that there are separate realities for those who suffer from it.

Rewriting the truth to be an "alternative truth," if you will, is very common.  My uBPD H does this all the time.  He rewrite the facts to fit his own needs of the moment.  For instance, he has totally "forgotten" his children's history of drug abuse, scrapes with the law, suicide attempts, and promiscuity.  (I believe all of his children are in some BPD or NPD spectrum.)

My H never ceases to amaze me with his ability to twist the facts, something I am sure he does not do in his highly technical job.

[formflier]

 
Have the other children's parents said anything regarding the restricted license?

No... .  We have had some text contact with them mainly focusing on the extent of injuries. 

I'm a bit anxious since my understanding is we are waiting to confirm if someone has a "slight" pelvis crack/fracture or it if is completely just bruises and banging up.

So... .think about everyone's right side being banged up and the car was spun around due to impact of another vehicle in the rear of this vehicle.

I had no plans to bring up the restricted license or any of that last evening/this morning.  My goal was to get people to leave D13s room so she could get much needed sleep.  I had just returned with meds from 24 hour pharmacy.

Well... .people started launching into a story of how the accident wasn't d16's fault... .the cop was trying to railroad us... etc etc.

I said "I can't imagine we'll solve this at this late hour... .let's get some sleep." 

they basically said they needed to sort out the cops incorrect action (paraphrase)... .at which point I said none of what this was talking about would matter... we needed to go to sleep.

No matter what... my son had a stop sign and the other vehicle didn't.  My son was driving illegally.  Case closed.

While I didn't say it at the time... .this is very much like an accident where someone is DUI.  Even if no traffic infraction... .DUI is "at fault". 

FF

[Notwendy]

I'm so glad nobody was hurt.

Your wife may try to re-write history, possibly even blaming your 16 year old, or you. (taking victim mode)

But the facts are the facts. The 16 year old was driving but he's still a minor and the parents are responsible- your wife is responsible.

It's hard to stand up to your parents at 16. They have all the power. He may feel he has to go along with her to keep the peace.

As awful as this is - nobody got seriously hurt- and that is a blessing.

[formflier]

I didn't sleep that long... or that well.  

Anyway... .once again I'm faced with "If FF had been stronger in his boundary setting... holding to what he believed is right... .a much better outcome would have happened.


Think back to the public drinking incident thing.  My wife and I were not in agreement that kids were ready to start having friends over again.  My wife decided she wasn't going to talk about it anymore... .and do what she wanted... .we see the result in having one parent "bully" the other by doing stuff behind their back.

Yet we know she will "feel" bullied by me saying no... or wanting to take time to think through the wisdom of children doing (fill in the blank)

There was a car incident with me years ago where if I had a dashcam things would likely have turned out much different.  So... I started using one and put them in all the cars.  

My wife started taking them out... .deciding she was being controlled and watched... and she wouldn't have it.

Sadly... .I didn't take a stand on this.  

While it may not have prevented last nights accident... all the stuff about who stopped, cop misconduct, witnesses lying... .etc etc... .could have been solved with a dashcam.  2 of which are sitting in my office because FF didn't fee like that was worth the "fight".

I can't imagine going forward without dashcams in my vehicles ever again.  I pay for them... .I pay the insurance... .

Sigh...

FF

[formflier]

I think the text confirmation I just got means that there are no broken bones... cracked bones or anything... .lots of bruises and hurt.

That is a blessing.

The scene was horrible to drive up to.  After my son called us (this was on a rural road... few addresses) I had asked him to hang up and share his location with us on his phone... .so we navigated to that. 

I had just got back home after going to auto parts store... I assumed he was calling about that.

My wife waited until I left to send him to pick up the girls.  Last thing I had been told was the "party" was already over (they had already spent one night)... apparently more were being fetched.  I'm not sure about these details yet.

So... .the thinking of FF that led to "we'll talk about this later and I'll go to auto parts store shows how "normal" it is for FFw to fly off handle and do exactly the opposite of what was agreed on, she said would happen... etc etc.  "

Back to my story... .when I pull up there were 4 ambulances... .3-4 fire trucks.  several personal vehicles with flashing fire lights (volunteer fireman that drove straight to scene) and 3-4 sheriff/highway patrol cars... .plus people that stopped to help.

Massive scene... .

FF

[Notwendy]

That's a nightmare.

I think there is a larger issue- your wife does what she wants regardless of your agreements. A dashcam can be turned off, taken out.

It's fine to have disagreements about things that have few or no consequences  but your wife is now making decisions that potentially are dangerous.

IMHO, this incident is a reflection of a larger problem. Your wife's decision put all the children in danger.

No matter what the police did or whose fault, or who did what- your wife told your 16 year old son with a restricted license to drive his sister and friends.

The reason for the restricted rule is that new teenage drivers should have minimum distractions when driving. Siblings are allowed as it would be unreasonable not to, but ideally distractions are kept at a minimum. It's a safety law and your wife dismissed the safety of all the children in the car when she made this decision.

[formflier]

Yep... .there is no way around that analysis.

And... .now is apparently trying to "act befuddled"... .rewrite history... claim she didn't know.

We've had 2 children gain their license in this state.  One is now 18... .has moved out and lives at local college.  He came by to check on his sister. 

What I overheard was her demanding/asking of him that he got a "full license" so why did S16 not get one.  S18 corrected his Mom that he was restricted.

Sigh... .

Those of you that know my story know that this is "once again"... .my wife has put kids  in danger by doing the opposite of what I've allowed/we've agreed on.

The only thing that "to my knowledge" has held over the years is no more corporal punishment.

She knows I have a video and written trail of proof that she knows that's not acceptable... .and she knows I'll go to court/authorities to enforce that.

Every so often she will complain that "they need a whipping... "... .

I have limited sleep... .and I realize that "engaging" on this today is not the focus... .but please help with suggestions.

P is aware.

FF

[Notwendy]

Suggestion #1: Thank God nobody was hurt- get some sleep. Nothing needs to be decided immediately and tired people don't always make the best decisions.

Come back to discuss this after you have slept!

Suggestion #2: the kids are traumatized right now. Your son must feel awful. I don't know what is going on with your wife at the moment, but the kids need attention. Be kind and loving to the kids.

[Skip]

Did you advise your son and the kids in the car to remain quiet and wait for an attorney to answer questions?  Kids who have no experience with police matters are their own worst enemies in situations like this... .they say all the wrong things.

If not, have you called an attorney for advise on this?  

In your state, I believe this is a Class C misdemeanor without the option for diversion programs (A class C misdemeanor is punishable by up to 60 days in jail and a fine of up to $500.)  For first time offenders, you'll often receive a fine that is closer to the minimum amount and probably won't have to serve any jail time. I think the license will also be suspended for between ninety (90) days and two (2) years.

I don't know that you have to be the heavy here... .I think there are consequences coming.

[Notwendy]

I don't know what state you are in, but I was going to say the same thing- the consequences will be the lesson here, you don't have to be.

Also the parents of the 13 year olds- they may place some restrictions on who drives the kids or only have the kids hang out at their home if they aren't secure with your wife in charge.

[formflier]

Did you advise your son and the kids in the car to remain quiet and wait for an attorney to answer questions?  Kids who have no experience with police matters are their own worst enemies in situations like this... .they say all the wrong things.
 

S16 did say the wrong thing.  Oddly enough my wife is blaming me for this.  I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Remember... I've been a county manager and have supervised military and civilian law enforcement.

I was worried that my son was going to be taken into custody.  The best argument I could think of at the time was it didn't "appear" a vehicular death was imminent. (likely to happen).

So... .I was pleased/hopeful when the Deputy said he needed some info before "sending us home".  

My son had already spoken to them before I arrived... .there are multiple witnesses (not involved) to the accident.  I don't have firsthand knowledge of what they saw or said to the deputy.

My son claimed he came to complete stop... .officer challenged him was it a rolling stop or complete stop... .my son wiggled in his story.  Bottom line my son mistook this intersection for a 4 way stop... .it was a 2 way stop.  He had the stop sign.

My son was also obviously in a state of shock from impact/trauma.  His sister's story is somewhat closer to his original story... but again... pain meds... shock.

Of course this is all based on what I know now.

Yes... .call into our lawyer and everyone has been advised to make no further statements if police call... etc etc.

Yes Skip... .sadly you are correct about class C.  I think the license suspension is "up to" one year.

My family has significant legal exposure at the moment... and my wife is blaming me.

She claims that she and S16 had no idea.  I will have to check text and some of my recordings... .

S16 took drivers ed... .we discussed his restrictions as part of drivers ed.  

I agree I don't have to be the heavy here.  By the same token it would be unwise for me not to make any changes in the way I "clarify" things, knowing that my wife will do what she will do.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I'm so sorry, FF. I'm very glad that no one was seriously hurt.

[formflier]

Me too... .wife is stomping around this morning.  Monosyllabic . 

As in "how does d13 seem" (they slept in same room last night)... .she said "fine"... turned her head from me and walked past... very deliberately... .with some stomp.

Sigh...

FF

[I Am Redeemed]

My family has significant legal exposure at the moment... and my wife is blaming me.

She claims that she and S16 had no idea.  I will have to check text and some of my recordings... .

S16 took drivers ed... .we discussed his restrictions as part of drivers ed.  

I agree I don't have to be the heavy here.  By the same token it would be unwise for me not to make any changes in the way I "clarify" things, knowing that my wife will do what she will do.

FF

In my experience, judges don't generally accept an excuse of "I didn't know" when there is no valid reason for not knowing. I have never in my life heard of a judge that said "Oh, well, you didn't know, so it's fine."

No, you don't have to be the heavy here. But don't be surprised if you get accused of "siding" with the authorities, or not doing enough to lessen or prevent consequences.

Sadly, sometimes consequences do not teach the intended lesson because the person doesn't acknowledge responsibility and takes the position of "persecuted victim".

[GaGrl]

What a horrendous sight for a parent to drive up to... .I am so sorry. When I received a call about my son's car accident, I was OK until the next day when we went to the lot where his car had been towed - when I saw what was left of it, I burst into tears.

You may have parental liability on the insurance side, over and above the immediate medical costs. The girl's parents may be reluctant to sign off on medical costs for several months, until they determine there are no longer implications. I'm sure you have good insurance carrier who will work through this with you (thank you, USAA).

Processed ignorance of the law isn't going to get anyone anywhere. FFwife is adept at blame-shifting. She needs to be in court with your son as he either pleads guilty or nolo contendre - I'm sure the judge will have some choice bits of wisdom to share.

And you know good and well that FFwife is being short and gauging your temperament because she knows she really blew it this time - blame-shifting techniques might double down, or she could back down and admit culpability. Hard to say, because this time one of her brood got pulled into it.

Your son and daughter need you most of all right now - just be a dad.

[formflier]

My wife is threatening to call the officer and bless him out for a long list of various and sundry things.

I've asked her not to reach out until we have spoken with legal counsel.  Her response is that she can and will do what she wants... the officer told her to call him any time she wants and she is going to exercise her rights.

I'm doubtful she is going to actually do it... .but to  give you guys a flavor of the conversations.

Again... she knows that tomorrow she will be able to have a phone consult with our lawyer... .but is threatening to not wait.

Very sad...

FF

[formflier]

I took my son out there in the light of day to look around.  Trying to be a dad... .to help him keep his chin up.

I told him that I've wrecked lots of cars and airplanes... .some have been my fault, some not... .and some were just acts of God. 

Landing on an aircraft carrier and having everyone... .yes everyone point at your airplane isn't a good sign.  I had just flown through a hail storm.

He was able to talk about how surreal it was to get out of the car right after the accident... how quiet it was.  He remembers being confused and then deciding it would be a good idea to get in and shut off the car... which he did.

Then he started checking on passengers... .people started getting loud.  Reality set in.

I've had many similar experiences.

I suppose it was a bonding moment of sorts.  We talked through things.  I'm going to have him write out his statement later this afternoon.  Make sure he is good with it.

Then we wait.

My daughter is moving around much more freely now and is taking a hot shower at the moment.

Uggg.

Yeah... I'll focus on being a Dad. 

FF

[Notwendy]

Your wife will do whatever she wants to do about calling.

IMHO, not taking accountability would not be unusual.

My BPD mother used to "force" my father to drive even though he should not have been. She didn't drive but he was her driver and she expected this to continue even if he was elderly and ill.

She didn't look at the reality. She wants what she wants. Your wife probably wanted your son to help with the driving. She didn't think of his situation. I imagine he was probably afraid to say no to her so to not start a scene.

[empath]

What an awful experience! I'm glad that there weren't more serious injuries, too. It's good that he's talking about it with you. How's D13?

Focus on caring for the kids.

I know how easy it is to be livid with a partner that put a child in a dangerous situation - emotions run very high. That needs to be set aside for the time being.

I'm sure there will be consequences that come from the decisions that she made. You aren't in control of those. One step at a time.

[Cat Familiar]

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