She’s insinuating that I’m hurting my daughter in a sexual way

[The Wind]

I wrote out a long introduction and decided maybe it was all a bit much. Maybe I’ll just get the point of what I’m struggling with right now. My wife has bpd. We have a young daughter.
I’m struggling with how to deal with seeing my wife’s behavior affecting our daughter. I’m also struggling with how to deal with accusations, or the general verbal abuse, and then she pops back like nothing has happened and I’m supposed to act that way too, even though she just did something hurtful to me earlier in the day. She comes back later like all is good, when I’m still not good, but according to her, something is wrong with me because I’m acting like something is wrong.
Example:
Our daughter, just started having these night terrors, waking up in the middle of the night, but not really waking up and just being beside herself with fear until she fully wakes up, then she doesn’t even remember being afraid or having a bad dream.
So my wife ask me if I think she’s being hurt by someone? I respond with no, I don’t think so, she’s not in an environment where I think that could happen or is happening. Then she ask:
“Are you hurting her?”
“don’t be mad because I asked you that, I have to ask you, if you are hurting her I need to know and you need to tell me now”
“You know I’ll kill someone if they are hurting her”
She’s insinuating that I’m hurting her in a sexual way. This is the 2nd time I’ve had to deal with this from her. The first time she made those comments in front of our daughter and we had a long conversation about it and how disgusting that is to me, and how hurtful it was for her to accuse me or think that I may be doing something like that. We also talked about how her making those kinds of comments in front of our daughter can potentially put thoughts into her head about something going on that’s not going on, it could be confusing and it’s not something that needs to be discussed in front of her. She agreed.

The night that she made the recent comments, I didn’t get mad, but upset and hurt by the question. She immediately goes into “Your mad! Well I’m not going to eat the food you cooked, I just won’t touch it” I said “I’m not mad, and you should eat, I cooked it for both of us” She wouldn’t eat, and we both just got quiet.
When I went to bed that night (our daughter sleeps in a separate crib/bed in our bedroom) my wife stayed up in the living room, but before I went into the bedroom she said “Leave the door open!” again insinuating that I’m doing something inappropriate with our daughter and she needed to keep an eye on me.

It’s been a few days now, and it’s just been bugging me! I can’t continue to take these kinds of comments, I’m just sick of them. During the course of our relationship she has accused me of being sexually inappropriate with my mom, my sister and now my daughter, none of which are true.
But of-course today, every thing is fine, it’s like it never happened, and why am I acting put off?

How do I deal with this? How do I deal with the let me insult you and say nasty things about you or to you in the morning, and it's all good in the afternoon, why are you still upset?

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[Red5]

Hello and welcome Wind!

wow… that's a real issue that you are dealing with, we see this exact same scenario from time to time on these boards, so you're not alone there.

So what to do about it… I guess first you need to understand more about why you're wife is behaving this way,

A few questions that may help you on this path,

*is you're wife diagnosed, or is it you're assumption, my (current) wife isn't either, but I'm sure she is bpd.

*considering what your wife is presenting here, the accusation… what do you know of her own childhood, as we know bpd is trauma based… was your wife sexually abused… this may be an explanation, my first (ex) wife was a CSA victim also, and over the years, as I learned more, things that she did, the way she acted… made a little more sense as to "why", although still extremely difficult to have to deal with.

One of the mannerisms of bpd, as we know, is that their feelings are their facts… "emotional reasoning"… so however they are feeling at any given moment, well that's their reality… "feelings equal facts".

Also there may be a degree of splitting happening, she has this "feeling"… so she splits you, to shore up her feeling as a fact, even though it has no basis in fact.

And then it "blows over"… and she is back to 'baseline'… and wondering why you are acting so angry, upset… been there many times myself as well.

… does any of this make sense to you?

Red5

[The Wind]

Thanks for the quick reply.

She is not diagnosed, or at least says that she isn't, but I have my suspicions that she was in the past. She is diagnosed as having bipolar disorder, but after years of experience with her and reading and studying, I think that's an incorrect diagnoses. No amount or combo of meds have ever made a significant impact on her behavior. I was quite sure she had bpd many years ago, but she assured me that she did not, in fact I joined this board in 2009 but never posted until today. She works in the mental health field, is very smart and works with many women diagnosed with bpd, and talks about how difficult they are to work with, ironic I know. I believe she knows that she deals with the disorder too, but is in denial because of the stigma that comes with it, the "incurable" label is to much for her pride to accept. I know that before I met her she had participated in DBT (according to her she was kicked out because she was told that she was to volatile). She also had many books on the subject when I met her, but I think somewhere she decided that wasn't her.

I don't know the details, but she was sexually abused as a child and I'm aware that has a great deal to do with her thought process, we talked about it after the first accusation and how that experience doesn't equal this experience nor do I think as she thinks because I haven't experienced that. So I get the "Why" here, I think I'm frustrated it continues to come back after very candid conversations about it.

The emotional reasoning, feeling = fact I'm still trying to wrap my head around how to deal with, but it's a perfect description of what goes on.

Example :
This morning Im more quiet than normal, I'm tired, her question is stuck in my head and bothering me, she can sense that, keeps asking me what's wrong with me, I tell her I'm tired, because I don't want to get into a discussion about it this morning in front of our daughter while we're getting ready for work, and she responds "I feel like we loved  each other last week and now we don't "

Barely spoke to me before she left for work hasn't reached out to me all day, which is unusual for her. It's like living on shifting sand and being asked why can't you keep your balance?

I've been reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and it feels good to be on the right track after years and years of looking in the wrong direction. I even bought this book around 2010 but never read it until this year, and it's been mind blowing how accurate it describes my wife.

I have a lot to learn if I'm going to save this relationship and equip my daughter to deal with her mom.

[No-One]

Hi The Wind:
I'd like to join Red5 in welcoming you!

How old is your daughter?  I just want to add a possible angle regarding what's happening with your daughter and her nightmares.

My dad had a few strong BPD traits.  Eventually, I figured out he struggled with untreated anxiety and depression.  Along with environmental causes, genetics can play a part in things (either brain chemistry and/or brain wiring).

I came to realize that I came out of the womb anxious.  We all dream and some of us have more nightmares than others. Some just don't remember them.  

I used to have a lot of nightmares in my early years, but I wasn't able to talk about what was bothering me.  I'd wake up crying and end up rocking in a rocking chair.  I'd have a recurrent dream of being chased by a monster.  The background for the dream was always my neighborhood.  I remember one consistent thought when I woke up, "I'm scared to grow up".  My usual answer, when my parent's asked what's wrong, was "nothing".

In hindsight, I realized that the things I was anxious about played out in my dreams.  A little bit of info., without understanding, can set off a lot of worrying and imagination (ruminating) in a child geared to be anxious. i.e. Parents fighting, people dying from a contagious disease (in my day Polio was the scare), and the list goes on.

It was common, when I was young for parents to tell a child: "put a sweater on. If you get a chill you will catch something".  Some people still believe this, but scientifically, it doesn't prove true.  For me as a child, I thought "I caught a chill.  Am I going to get Polio now?"

Just sharing some thoughts about what might be going on with your daughter.  She is processing some things in her dreams.  It might be a positive thing that she doesn't remember when she wakes up.

 

[Red5]

"I feel like we loved each other last week and now we don't "

I've read that this is called "sarcastic projection"…

example, your wife may "think" that you wanted your red wagon painted black, she knows this is your pride and joy, your red wagon, with the brass hardware, and radial tires… so you come home from work one day, and there it is, dripping in black paint, so you know that your bpd wife is going to want "validation", but you also don't want to enable, or validate the "invalid"… because she has lots of that black paint left… so you say to her… "dear, I really appreciate your gesture, but I really wish you'd have asked me first"… "but it is very shiny"… she responds, "YOU @SSHOLE, I've worked a l day on this, YOU'VE NEVER loved ME!"

kinda like that…

Wow, your wife works in the mental health field… I've read other posts like this before…

Yes, when the feelings are being worn on their sleeves so to speak, its always a catch22, no matter how you try to handle, to sidestep, even using the tools taught here .. SET etc'… if her feelings are negative, then that's how its going to go.

So if she was a CSA victim… that may explain a lot… certainly,

I remember very vivid dreams as a little guy, perhaps K-3rd grade… very vivid nightmares for lack of  a better word, I still remember them to this day… I felt heat, smells, fear, wind, there were "visuals", I can still remember them… my ex-wife also used to have nightmares, she called them night terrors… pretty regularly… scary stuff… my current wife says she never dreams… hmmm ?

I hope your daughter is doing better.

There is another book, and its also an audio book on youtube as well, (so is SWOE now)… and this book provides a lot of insight, and it has helped me to understand more… it is as follows:

YouTube audiobook Resource;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Ai6ujUDX0&list=PL94j5ECCzW1frzUVZtYclBrzjOv7OpujU&index=1&spfreload=10

Title: Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship… By: Christine Ann Lawson

Another book I've read is "Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder" - Shari Y. Manning, PhD… the 'creator' of DBT did the forward, Marsha M. Linehan,

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=149336.0

You should check them out.

I'm always looking for more knowledge on the subject…

I have a lot to learn if I'm going to save this relationship and equip my daughter to deal with her mom.

How long have you been married, is this your first marriage?

I was married before .. 21 years, and now I am married again (I'm 53), this time; an eleven year relationship, eight years married, now separated, for now six months.

My relationship/marriage to ubpdw #2 (has been) is a classic textbook example, it has hit every "waypoint" in regards to bpd… wow ; (

I only wish I had understood more early on, then perhaps things may have been different...

Red5

[2020]

Hello Red5,

Tonight I am writing in an upturned room. It looks like some thieves or the cops have been in here looking for something. The old red rotary dial phone is smashed over the bed headboard, there are tipped out boxes of paperwork and clothes everywhere. I can barely see the floor. My 'partner' has finally passed out under a desk in the room and is snoring in a drunken haze. Somehow she has equated me letting a rat out of a live trap, to intercourse with minors in a public toilet. Lord help me and I am not religious!

Apparently she is leaving me in the morning because I am abusive. This is me, the man who made her coffee and dinner today. The guy who woke up first thing and bought her tampons and cigarettes because she "needed them". Some women would love to be pampered like that...

Yeah, I wish I had understood more early on. I want to read a book about "Avoiding Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder". This is the second time I have done this, and I am scared it may not be the last. Who IS the disordered one?

[The Wind]

My daughter is three. There are definitely some anxiety issues with her, some are being nurtured by my wife because she is so paranoid about everything herself and expects our daughter to feel as she does. Our daughter has already had some traumatic experiences with us fighting, one argument in particular that made me vow to never argue in front of her again, no matter how many buttons of mine were being pushed. It's sad, I know she loves her very much, but she doesn't quite get the impact her behavior is having on our daughter. As our daughter ages and becomes more independent I foresee a very rough relationship between those two.

This is my first marriage.We've been together 15 years, married 6. I wish I were better at setting boundaries, i wish i understood that concept better early in our relationship, because the standard was set a long time ago with us and its hard to change now.

I think many people struggling with mental health issues end up in the mental health field, simply because they are trying to fix themselves.

I will check our those books! Thanks for recommending them!

Thanks for the insight on nightmares from you both as well. She has told me on two occasions about her dreams, one was about looking for me and not being able to find me and the other was about a bear outside the bedroom door trying to get her.

[once removed]

one argument in particular that made me vow to never argue in front of her again, no matter how many buttons of mine were being pushed

regarding whats going on between you and your wife, this is key.

your buttons are being pushed - understandably.

my ex had a way of getting into a line of questioning with me, that would imply something about my mom or my relationship, and it was infuriating, and it got me every time. then, inevitably, id hear "youre just getting mad because im talking about your mom" 

changing your response, finding one that is less emotionally engaging - in other words, not responding with pushed buttons, will help deflate this balloon. easier said than done, i know.

one example might be to just ask questions and listen, without being defensive, as to whats giving her this impression, why she feels this way. give her the room to talk about whats driving the questions, and dont react...reflect, then bring it back here and get some feedback.

"I feel like we loved each other last week and now we don't "

this is just a dramatic way of saying "i feel less connected to you". she can sense your distance and doesnt know what to do with it.

[The Wind]

changing your response, finding one that is less emotionally engaging - in other words, not responding with pushed buttons, will help deflate this balloon. easier said than done, i know.

one example might be to just ask questions and listen, without being defensive, as to whats giving her this impression, why she feels this way. give her the room to talk about whats driving the questions, and dont react...reflect, then bring it back here and get some feedback.

this is just a dramatic way of saying "i feel less connected to you". she can sense your distance and doesnt know what to do with it.

It really feels like learning a new language or a new way to communicate.

One thing I've been telling myself daily is that I can't change what other people do (my wife's behavior) I can only change what I do (meaning my behavior/reactions).

I've really had to adjust my expectations of what normal is to me, or what I think normal should be in our relationship, and accept her for who she is, while trying not to get lost in the bubble of her reality. It's crazy to me how quickly I've found myself lost in her version of reality and her bubble of what's acceptable behavior and treatment of me or others. I'm really working on staying grounded in logical reality while not expecting her to just be there, but figuring out how to help her get there in the chaos of her emotions.