I'm not sure I'm handling things the right way

[Ozzie101]

I'm not sure I'm handling things the right way and could use some feedback.

My uBPDh has been so much better the last several months. But pressures at work have amped up and it's getting to him. He's utterly miserable there (his words – though he insists he's happy at home) thanks in large part to the actions and words of some church members and a senior pastor suffering from what I suspect is a personality disorder. The problem is, he's the administrator at the church I have attended for 20 years – and for 8 years as a child. It's how we met. So, I have an emotional attachment to the place and the people.

He'll go into long rants about his job, about his coworkers, about the church members. I try to listen. I try to empathize. But some of his statements, like “Church people are just horrible people” and “The people there are all stupid and worthless” – I can't agree with. He point-blank asks me: “Don't you agree?” I know he's just ranting, but I don't agree. Are some of them horrible people? Most likely so. You get a group of people that large, you're going to have bad apples. But I can tell he gets annoyed and frustrated when I don't 100% agree with what he says.

After he rants some, he comes back more to baseline and admits that much of that is hyperbole and he feels bad because he knows I'm in a difficult position.

He's lashing out about people. I can understand why he's hurt and frustrated. But I think some of his hurt and frustration is caused by his perception and attitude. He sees people who make decisions he doesn't agree with as “stupid” or “against” him. Not thinking that they may have a different perspective or may not have the full story -- or he might not. Or they might not really be thinking about him at all. They don't necessarily realize his position and feelings. But he has a history of getting angry at people for things and then when I ask, “Yes, but how would they know that?” he doesn't have an answer and cools off.

I've tried pointing it out to him that, “Well, hmm. They did make a bad call. But I wonder why.” Not trying to be argumentative. I genuinely wonder why people do what they do. Makes it easier for me to wrap my head around and figure out how to approach a problem. That makes him frustrated with me.

I guess I'm not being validating enough and not going about things the right way. Any insight or advice?

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[Scarlet Phoenix]

The point blank "Do you agree?" is tricky. How do you usually respond?

It's hard to get around answering something else that won't trigger him more. How about something in the line of "I love you, let's talk about that some more when [insert time in the future]". It's not really validating, it's a boundary. But it gets you out of answering, and if it doesn't trigger him, it can over time teach him that you won't respond to the question.

Or how about just looking at him and listening, slightly nodding? Does he really wait for an answer or will he continue talking if you don't say anything? Just small signs to show that you are listening can also be validating. It doesn't mean that you agree with what he saying, it's more that you agree with his right to feel how he feels.

"Well, hmm. They did make a bad call. But I wonder why"

This is an example of something you say in respons to the "Do you agree", right? I can see why it doesn't work. It's not on target. Imaging you have a big bleeding wound and you say to someone "See this wound? Is so deep! Do you agree?" And they answer "Hm. I see the scratch there. I wonder how you got it". You wouldn't feel validated.

What is it he wants validated? Which feeling? Hurt, humiliation, injustice ...? That'll help you.

"point out" --> try to step away from that when you are validating. Pointing out is not validating.

[Ozzie101]

To the point-blank question, I usually respond with something like, "Well, yes, some of them are." Or "I agree she made a bad call." Again, not really what he wants to hear.

Most of the time, I do the listening, looking, nodding. But the point-blank questions are ones that he wants an answer to.

And you're right. For one, I need to get to the heart of which feeling needs validation and try to address that one. That example is a good one. I can see how that wouldn't feel validating. My natural inclination is to play devil's advocate or to try to see the other person's point of view (not to agree, but to maybe get to the root of how to solve the problem -- easier to do if you know what's motivating the other person). But I can see that that's not likely to be too helpful for H. Definitely something to work on.

What frustrates me is he has a tendency to expect people to read his mind or to act the way he thinks they should -- even though the other people may not have the same experience/information he does. It's a mindset I struggle dealing with.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Yeah, no, playing devil's advocate doesn't work when you want to do validation. You said that you like to understand different points of view, so this approach works for you. But you also want him to see different points of view? I'm sure he can sense that in your answers when you do that.

What frustrates me is he has a tendency to expect people to read his mind or to act the way he thinks they should -- even though the other people may not have the same experience/information he does. It's a mindset I struggle dealing with.

It's frustrating as all get out, I know.
Is this something you can work on on your own? Without his involvment.

My impression is that you want to use validation, but at the same time you want to make him see that people have different points of view, and different experiences. You can't do both at the same time. Validation first. Bringing up different points of view at a later point if necessary. He's smart enough to know this, it's just that he doesn't like it.

[Ozzie101]

Very good point. The two don't go hand-in-hand. I need to work on resisting my own impulses. At least in the moment. When he calms down and gets it out of his system, he's more receptive.

I think, in this case, it's that things have been so good for the last four months or so. Now he's showing patterns of behavior that he had before (ones that led to raging and verbal abuse and had me developing safety plans) and it scares me inside, even though it's not aimed at me, really. But my fear reaction does a run-around my brain and could lead right down the path I'm so scared of. Using the tools the right way is what I need to focus on.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

I'm sorry to hear that. 
Focus your very best on validation, including not being invalidating. That's an important part that we often forget.

And take care of yourself. Be kind to yourself.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Also, know when it's too much for you. It kind of you to support your husband, to validate and listen. Just remember that if you feel too anxious, it might be better for both you and him if you take a little timeout. Something along the lines of "You know, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed, I'm going to go do ..., we'll talk more after" or "I want to give my very best when talking with you, and right now I'm need to recharge a little. I love you, let's talk more after dinner".

He's not likely to like it, but that's okay. Exit to another room or for a short walk or for gardening or something. Come back when you feel calmer. It'll be better for both.
I'm not sure if you already do this?

[Ozzie101]

I don't do it, but I know it's something I should do. I find it hard to cut him off mid-rant -- partly for fear of triggering him, partly because I know he's hurting and I'm one of the few people he can really talk to. I genuinely want to help. I have a tendency to ignore my own feelings and needs in favor of someone else's. Something my T wants me to work on.

Part of what has me on-edge is an incident last week. It had been a very stressful day for him: first day back in the office after vacation, dealing with major fallout from some things that happened while he was gone. Then he talked to his adopted mother, which often stresses him further and, in this case, really set him off. He also had three glasses of wine -- something he'd promised me he'd stop doing because he recognized it was triggering him even more. So, later that night, he starts focusing on my therapy and when I've seen my therapist and what I talk to her about. I started to feel like I was being interrogated. I felt overwhelmed so, for the first time, I used the safe word we'd agreed on. The rules are: once it's used, we go to separate rooms for 30 minutes, then come back together and talk. Neither is allowed to leave the house.

Well, I used the safe word and went upstairs. After a couple of minutes, he followed me, asking why I'd used the word. I told him we could discuss it when the 30 minutes were up. He told me he was leaving the house. Left the room but not the house. Came back about 5 minutes later, again upset. Finally went downstairs and fell asleep on the couch, which is how I found him.

We eventually came back together and talked for a long time. He eventually cooled off, but he was convinced I used the safe word because I was angry that he was right and I was wrong (turns out he was right about the appointments -- when he was interrogating me I got completely turned around and confused). I told him that I didn't care who was right. The point was, I felt threatened and attacked. The next morning he was normal and very depressed about what had happened the night before, full of apologies. We talked about better ways we can both handle situations like that.

So, anyway, long story short, that incident put me back in a place of not fully trusting him and being afraid of triggering him. Unfortunately.