12 years, 4 kids, CPS, and hoping to improve/avoid divorce

[H0pefulDad]

Hey all, I’m new here and glad to have finally found this place. For a long time I’ve felt so alone in this, feeling like there’s no place to talk about these issues with others who truly understand. I’m hoping to find peace and understanding here, encouragement, and learning from others’ experiences. This first post I’m sure will be lengthy because I feel like I have years of thoughts pent up that I need to get out in the open. So, if you will, please bear with me. I’ll put a TL;DR at the end if you prefer that, but as I’m sure you all are familiar with, there is so much to the story.

My wife has struggled with mental illness nearly her entire life, suspected to have been brought on by significant emotional, physical, and sexual abuse for years at the hands of an abusive father, step father, and neglectful mother.

We got married in 2007 after about 6 months of courtship. We had a brief break up during that 6 months because I noticed at times she was very forced in her personality, not genuine, like an act depending on her circumstances—not so much in our relationship, but I observed it as she related with others. It was off-putting, and we talked about it a little. During our break-up we both missed each other incredibly (oh, young love). Together, we seemed to click very well. I guess my missing her overrode my previous concerns, and we married a few months later.

The first few years of our marriage were particularly difficult, with violence between us, primarily her becoming aggressive with me to punching and scratching and I forcefully restraining her to protect myself. I stuck it out in the beginning because we were newlyweds, I wanted to see if we could make it work, and I was naive to what was actually going on. Also, in our culture there is a huge stigma against divorce, so I didn’t want to consider that route probably mostly out of shame and embarrassment. She went off hormonal birth control and that seemed to help, but violence towards me still persisted to a lesser degree, and has tapered off through the years to maybe one occurrence every year or two of pushing or an arm punch when in a fit of rage.

Within 6-7 months after we were married, she was already pregnant (unplanned). She miscarried at 13 weeks and after physically recovering, wanted to try to have another baby ASAP.  About 12 months later our first child was born. With the addition of a child, our relationship became a constant struggle of me trying to balance my school and work, and gauge her mental state as she would call me in panics and beg me to come home with regularity. Sometimes when it seemed dire, I would leave my obligations to return home to care for her and our child. Other times I could calm her over the phone, make a plan for her and the kids to be safe, and she did fine.

Over the next 11 years, we would have 3 more children, 7 years of schooling for me, 4 years of military service, and many trials that tested our relationship and our family as a whole. She started anti-depressants probably around 2010-2011 and started seeing further improvement.

In 2011 after our second child was born, she became suicidal (no attempt as I recall) and was hospitalized. For some reason, I don’t recall much about this time. In 2012 after we moved to attend more school, she had a very difficult time leaving our home state and her family support network. She was overwhelmed with our two young children, and attacked them one day scratching them on the face. As I rushed home after receiving a frantic phone call from her, she ingested a whole bottle of prescription medication in a suicide attempt. She survived with medical observation. CPS was involved, and with minimal intervention from a social worker our case was resolved. We managed to finish without much further incident, other than the continued frantic phone calls to return home.

As we finished school in 2016, I entered the military (an obligation which I signed on for in 2011 to pay for schooling). This transition was particularly difficult, as she lost her father a week before our planned move, and we returned to a flooded home after the funeral, with a cross country move the same week. With a lot of help from friends, we survived and moved to yet another state.

Now in the military, the stress of new routines set in. We now had 3 children. Frantic phone calls persisted, but now I was in a much less flexible position to leave my obligations at the drop of a hat. At certain times I still did after being granted permission, but it became increasingly difficult. I understood that in part this was facilitating her behavior perhaps, but I felt so trapped myself. I felt a responsibility to preserve my ability to provide for my family by respecting my job obligations, but I was also shouldering the responsibility of ensuring the physical safety of my family at the hands of my spouse, which subsequently jeopardized my ability to provide the necessities of life. This time has been utterly miserable.

In early 2017, we added a 4th child, and by the summer she was struggling pretty bad again. She was seeing a doctor who thought she could find help with some different medications. Our belief after talking with doctors (including psychiatrist) and therapists is that these medications precipitated a significant negative alteration of her mood stability, as she lashed out in rage again at our 2 oldest children, slapping one and hitting the other in the ribs. She called me in a suicidal panic, and I rushed home.

As I talked with her, she was clearly out of her mind, as if rage had consumed her every thought. I had never seen anything like it up to this point. I ended up taking her to the ER, where she had a psych eval and disclosed the events with our children. She was transferred to an in-patient psych facility for 5 days or so, and CPS came into our lives again, this time with a vengeance. It was the darkest time of my life. They tried to take all of our children away, paint me as a neglectful parent, and my wife an unsuitable mother. We had been working with a new excellent and knowledgeable therapist who helped us through this time, and with a lawyer as well, managed to have the case closed after about a year without any child removal. It was this therapist who opened our eyes to BPD and diagnosed my wife with “borderline tendencies”.

The next two years we saw more improvement than at any time in the past, mostly due to an effective therapist for individual and marriage therapy. My wife participated in an intensive out-patient group meeting for 1 month as well, which I think was 50/50 on its effectiveness. She has improved in her dealings with our children, but as we are in the final days of our transition out of the military now, and in light of all the COVID fallout, I can see the stress is mounting. We’ve got 30 days before another move to hopefully our final home. We found a wonderful home, in a wonderful neighborhood that seems to have loads of friends and support both for her and our kids, which has been limited during the recent years. All I can do is hope that we make it through this transition, and finally create some stability and support to continue on the path of healing.

I’ve considered divorce as a very likely eventual possibility, because quite honesty I feel she has put herself on a very tight rope at this point. If there ever were another CPS intervention, I don’t think I’d have any choice, as I will do everything in my power to keep custody of my children. The last CPS case I felt like a mindless drone, in shock about everything that was actually happening, struggling to analyze reality. I feel much more aware and prepared at this point, and would have no issue filing for divorce if necessary. However, I feel that my wife does have good qualities, and is a good influence on our children most of the time. It’s just when she hits her limits, sometimes she has a hard time separating herself from the situation and she perpetuates its deterioration.

Our therapist has seen our children for therapy, and knows them fairly well and is convinced the older 2 have ADHD (not diagnosed yet... thank you military medicine) and the third has been diagnosed with a sensory disorder. So I understand my wife has an extremely difficult job as the primary caregiver for our children, struggling with her own demons as well as trying to help our children with theirs. I’m trying to maintain compassion for her, while also maintaining my objectivity about the internal and external circumstances that could affect our family’s success. It’d a very difficult balance. Sometimes I tell myself I wish it were more black and white, like she is a chronic child abuser multiple times a month instead of once every few years, because I feel it would make the decision easier to leave. On the other hand, I wonder if I’ve lost some of my objectivity and I’m already in a black and white situation but can’t recognize it out of fear or shame. I’m hoping to work out these thoughts some more here.



TL;DR: I’m glad to have found this place. Married 12 years, 4 kids, two CPS cases in 5 years for child abuse, wife diagnosed with “borderline tendencies” 3 years ago. Has been showing improvement but feel like we’re on the verge of divorce as difficulties with children persist, albeit rarely. Trying to figure out where I really am in this paradigm, if divorce is an obvious and necessary choice at this point, or if there is still hope to maintain our family. Hoping to maintain family and avoid another CPS case that would tip us to divorce I believe.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Naughty Nibbler]

H0pefulDad:  Welcome!
My goodness, you sure have had your hands full.  There have been a lot of changes throughout your marriage.  Change can be stressful for the average person, so it's had to have been very difficult for your wife.

The forthcoming move sounds like it has potential to afford multiple advantages.  

My wife has struggled with mental illness nearly her entire life, suspected to have been brought on by significant emotional, physical, and sexual abuse for years at the hands of an abusive father, step father, and neglectful mother. . .

Our therapist has seen our children for therapy, and knows them fairly well and is convinced the older 2 have ADHD (not diagnosed yet... thank you military medicine) and the third has been diagnosed with a sensory disorder . . .    

Although one point of view is that abuse can be the sole cause of mental illness.  Another point of view is that mental illness, along with abuse, can be the cause of a person's mental health issues.

Mental illness could be genetic in your wife's side of the family.  Her abusers could have had brain chemistry or brain wiring issues that were perhaps undiagnosed and/or untreated & the root cause (s) or their abusive behaviors.

In view of the fact that there are issues with 3 of your 4 children, are you more open to there being a genetic component involved with your wife's side of the family, as opposed to abuse being the cause of everyone's issues?

Your children might be affected by your wife's occasional abusive behavior, but it's unlikely that her abusive behavior caused ADHD.  Women with mental illness are more apt to have mental health events during & after pregnancy, which your wife did have.  I'm wondering why you went on to have 4 children?  Was it a religious or cultural position against birth control?  

I feel that my wife does have good qualities, and is a good influence on our children most of the time. It’s just when she hits her limits, sometimes she has a hard time separating herself from the situation and she perpetuates its deterioration.

The move to a new neighborhood, with more support for your wife should be a good thing.  In view of the details you have shared, it's not a matter of if your wife has another meltdown, but a matter of when.  You indicate you sometimes talk her down, over the phone or come home, but she has to learn to have a few tools that she can do independently.  

It would be strategic to evaluate what counseling and/or treatment she has had over time.  Once you move to the new neighborhood, it could be an opportunity to get a fresh evaluation, from a new therapist & psychiatrist & to set some new goals.

Although your wife experienced a bad reaction to a particular med, at one point in time, doesn't mean that there isn't some med that can be helpful now. Also, it could be a good opportunity for your wife to approach counseling with some goals in mind. The number one goal being to find additional ways to minimize her melt downs & to protect your children.

Is there any pattern to your wife's behavior prior to a meltdown?  Perhaps some behaviors that precede the main event?  If you can't recognize anything in particular, have you ever asked her what pattern she can recognize?

Even if two of your children aren't officially diagnosed with ADHD, they must exhibit traits, in order for a therapist to suggest the possibility.  That being said, they have to be a handful for your wife and likely try her patience.

Have the professionals provided any advise or guidance to help your wife prevent her melt downs or manage them, so that she doesn't abuse the children?  Perhaps she needs someone to coach her on that.  What would be her personal ways to "improve the moment" or improve her "distress tolerance"? Has she tired some things?  Have a list handy, when the bad moments happen? Not everything helps on every occasion, but there has to be some things that can periodically help.  

[The Wind]

Welcome!

Not glad you're here, but glad you're here 

It sounds like you've been through a very tough path, thanks for sharing your story. I’m sure that getting ready to move and change habits has to be stressful for everyone, especially your wife. It sounds like therapy has been the most beneficial for her, is she currently in therapy and planning to continue after you’ve moved?

I read your post because you mentioned children, cps involvement and I'm trying to gain some perspective, and plan for that possibility.

My wife and I have one child (4year old), and another on the way. We've not encountered CPS, but I'm worried we may someday. My wife can be incredible with our daughter, so thoughtful, nurturing, loving and she will go above and beyond for her in ways that I don't even think of. I'm envious of how good she can be at times. Unfortunately, there is the dark side as well. So I understand your feeling of wishing things were black and white. I’ve had long stretches of good times, but I’ve had some long stretches of bad times. My wife can be so seemingly lucid and understanding one moment, and totally in a rage or disoriented the next. It is incredibly impossible to balance if you jump on the rollercoaster with her. I’m still learning tools to manage myself and my reactions/expectations.
I remember how she adored me, and I was the "greatest man she'd ever met", only to lead to eventual physical and emotional abuse.

I've noticed a pattern with her that the people that are closest to her, the ones that fill that caretaker role for her are the ones who also catch the overwhelming majority of abuse (traditionally that’s been myself and her mom). My daughter is lined up to step into that role, I see it already, she’s a caring sweet and thoughtful little girl. I wouldn’t call my wife abusive towards her, but she’ll have these outbursts that aren’t appropriate. My daughter is already clearly afraid of those outbursts and I see the efforts that she makes to avoid them with her mom, and that makes me sad, and I’m still trying to understand the best course of direction. She won’t play with certain toys because they irritate her mom. She won’t say the word “snake” because her mom has such a phobia of them. She’s very careful about certain things that she does so that she doesn’t set her mom off. I’ve noticed that she’s begun giving her mom extra attention as well, and I honestly that think she’s doing what I used to do, trying to fill that void in her mom’s unhappiness with all that she can give. I think that she’s doing it for a two-fold reason, one, because she genuinely wants her mom to be happy and she thinks that she can make her happy if she gives enough, and two, to stave off the cruel outburst that she’s afraid will eventually come.

I’m pretty torn about it. I sometimes wonder if I’m reading to much into it. I sometimes fear I’m not doing enough to protect our daughter and free her from a burden that she shouldn’t carry.I guess I’m still in the evaluation phases to some extent. My biggest concern is our children’s well-being and I want to make the right choices. Despite my wife’s mental illness, I know that she does too. I fear that my wife’s behavior will lead to behavioral or even mental health issues with our children, I’ve seen how her behavior can manipulate a person into a bubble of unhealthy thinking, she did it with me.

Having older children than I have, how would you say that your wife’s mental illness has affected them? Are there things you may have done differently having had some years of experience behind you now?

Have you read any good books on the subject? I’ve been reading and re-reading “Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life” by Margalis Fjelstad, PhD, LMFT. I can’t recommend it enough.

Welcome again, I’m glad you’re here looking for help, answers or support. That’s what drove me here and I have found some of those things here, even just browsing the threads.