Surely I don’t want to go to court for something as silly as this.

[Jbombjas]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338104.0


Oh boy Gems. So here we go. Another loop thrown in today.

He texted me today. I hadn’t heard from him in a couple days.  “I called my lawyer to start the paperwork for a sexual harassment lawsuit”

I haven’t heard from him in a few days. He opened the block he had where I could send the photos.

Here the kicker. The text came from his old number. The one that was disconnected.

So now I’m at a loss. I felt I was making progress. He was listening. But now I’m a bit scared. Is he really? Seems a bit ludicrous. And why from the old number he had disconnected.

I feel like it’s his way of telling me he has the number open again. But gosh this is all I get from him. Sexual harassment.  Attorneys. Surely I don’t want to go to court for something as silly as this. Is he bluffing? Does he just want me to know he has this number again and is completely stubborn?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Gemsforeyes]

Oh Sh*t!

What now?

[Jbombjas]

I don’t know. I think he’s bluffing. I think it was his way of telling me that number is reconnected. He wanted to reach out but had no way other than anger.

He’s been threatening attorneys for a while now. But it’s not funny. I mean it could happen. I just highly doubt it. I mean “start paperwork”. What does that even mean. It sounds ludicrous.

I think he’s full of sh. I just responded that “I loved him just the way he was and I hoped he had a great day” I completely ignored the threat. I think that’s the way to go. Don’t even go there. I don’t know what to do. I think it’s time to just back off. I don’t want to but if he threatens that what am I supposed to do.

Why keep things open if I’m sexually harassing him? If it was harassment you’d first take steps to get rid of the harassment. Unless you wanted to gather evidence. But cmon. That just seems so far off base. I’m jjst a bit sad. Concerned. I really felt like he was listening. Now this.

My intuition just says it’s him showing me the number is open. I’m not blocked. He reconnected it. It’s how we used to communicate. But what a way of doing it. He is really ridiculous. See?

[Gemsforeyes]

I do see...

My self-protective humor kicks in and I hear that accented voice (maybe Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation from years ago on SNL) saying “little girly man” when they wanted to pump YOU up... guess you had to be there.  But I digress.

I actually wrote a  suggested loose apology, but it wouldn’t let me post because our thread was closed.  I printed it out so I can retype it.

I don’t want you to “eat crow” or crawl away with your tail between your legs.  Not your style.  But we all own everything.  Especially if there’s a chance we’ve crossed even a soft line.  In someone’s, anyone’s opinion.  And the opinions of pwBPD change frequently.  Feelings equal Facts.

Do you want to specify somehow that you apologize, misread, you welcome future contact if he’d like to reconnect on a more serene level at some point and there is no other man in your life.  That all future contact from you will be kind, calm and respectful?

Want to toss this around or do you want to take some space and rest your heart, your mind tonight, my dear friend?

I’m sorry.  I know this is upsetting, and NOT what you’ve been working toward.

And I want to remind you, Jbomb, regardless of your feelings... UP or down, we’ll keep talking.  You don’t need to disappear, ok?

Xo Gems 

[Gemsforeyes]

Later...

For you.  A song.  Honey and the Moon by Joseph Arthur. 

I’m too old, or ignorant, to link.  Grab a tissue.

[Jbombjas]

You are so sweet Gems. Thanks. You know the more I think about it the more I’m positive of my conclusion. But it doesn’t matter. It’s tkme to stop. I mean why not respond to iMessage where you once blocked me and is now open. Why not contact via email to tell me or text the other number I have that you haven’t blocked. Why text me from the number that I thought was disconnected and we haven’t texted from in ages?

Yes. It was to let me know he reconnected it.

But regardless it makes me very sad. And I think it’s tone to stop contacting him. Ive tried all I can to get through. I did buy him the shirt. I’ll send it to him I guess when it comes. But that’s it. I’ve done what you suggested. I think it’s tome to just move on. I don’t know how to get through.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Jbomb-

I hope you’re having some peaceful time and feeling okay with that.  Maybe some time for a walk outside with your friends will feel good.  Leave the four walls behind you for a while.  You know the drill...  ruminations of too much alone time aren’t so good when “withdrawal” is the order of the day, right?

I’m thinking of you.  And here if you want to talk.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Jbombjas]

You’re so so sweet I’m not ok w it. But I just feel like I’ve hit every brick wall there is. Im at a loss. He is a stubborn child.

I get fearful & confused with the whole object  permanence (is that the right term?) thing. So if I go he forgets me but at the same time I’ve read all this stuff about abandonment issues and no contact and all these pwBPD coming back after no contact. So those two theories seem to be conflicting. Which prevails?

I mean lets be completely logical. He’s been threatening this silly idea for about a week now. First originally  from the one blocked then unblocked (and kept that way) number. Then it came from the blocked now unblocked iMessage that he scrambled to see what I had sent. So why not reply to those two venues? Those were the ones where the pics had been sent.  The logical place would be to reply to them. Easy. Why not reply to any of the emails I had sent? Or why not just act. Stop threatening. And just do it. Ignore me. Block me. Act. Why send a text from the number I thought had been dissolved/disconnected to tell me such ridiculousness. The number he knew I thought was disconnected. The number we used to use for communication.  If he didn’t want to hear from me, why let me know he has yet another phone number that he reconnected. Sure I can come up w one little explanations for this But not really.   I can now reach this (new) number that is not blocked? It’s silly. He hasn’t started any paperwork. I mean what does that even mean. He probably doesn’t even have an attorney. But what am I supposed to do. He wants the door open. He wants me to text him at that number. No. I’m not eating crow. I will Continue to fight. I just have no idea how.
I agree. PwBPD feelings change often. But he has not stopped wanting the pics. Never.  He has not stopped the desire. It is the one thing that connects him intimately AND soothes all of his anxiety. I’ve seen it calm him like a magic trick. It’s odd. He has rushed to see them. I’ll bet money that hasn’t changed. He may for a period have painted me so black he finds me unattractive but I’m not even sure of that.
I will send him the shirt I got him with a card I got today. Bit other than that I’m at a loss. I know he is keeping the door open but by continuing to be threatening?. It’s just beating me down. I don’t know how to get in. Sometimes I laugh about his actions. They are absurd &  childish. He’s a pouty angry attention seeking little boy. Most of the time I’m sad. But I’m also OK. And fortunately very busy right now. I have my sober tools. No expectations. Let go and let god. Fear to faith. Set aside everything I think I know. Pause when agitated or doubtful. So much. It has been a good lesson for me to get back to a loving tolerant good person all the time! So when I get sad I try to find this place. I’m just at a loss of where to turn or fight for him next. I think a little space & quiet although I’m sad & anxious & maybe the answer will come. Or maybe he’s just gone and I need to accept it. It’s been a few weeks. We have never stopped talking this long before. I’m trying my best to let go and not expect anything anyway. Just do the right thing without too much self centered ness.
I wish there was something I could do for you for your support. It’s truly priceless. You cannot tell friends about some of this stuff. They don’t understand it. They don’t understand him. And they don’t understand my desire to love him regardless of what happens between he and I. I’ve felt that long before I wanted to be with him. Having the support to understand it and him is simply a godsend. Anything I could ever do to help you or thank you would make my day! ❤️

[Gemsforeyes]

You are such a sweetheart.  I want you to understand, that each time I engage with you, I learn more about myself.  This is all a search for understanding, right? 

You know, Jbomb... sometimes a “fight for him” can turn into a fight for you.  Things you may not know can hurt you.  Use great care when walking this tightrope.  Because you want to love him so badly, and there is more you DON’T know than you do, you’ve got to keep your wits about you. He may not be what or who you want him to be, or who you believe him to be.

At some point, it needs to be that you have opened the door... and he needs to walk in.  I believe, after reading so many posts here and through my own experience, that pwBPD do NOT want “needy, clingy” partners, despite this running theme of “fear of abandonment”.  With your quietness in response to his real threats, you have not “left” him.  He has pushed you out.  Continuing to “force” your way in will erode his respect for you.  Not good if you want an eventual response from him.  I could be wrong... but I don’t think so.  He needs to develop some level of respect for you; and you want to regain that for yourself.  And... if / when this moves to personal contact, you do NOT want or deserve to be treated with contempt or ill will by your lover.  No.  Now this IS about you.  Perhaps this is where some of your sadness lies.  Please Jbomb, let’s talk about this, when you’re ready.  And this is a difficult part to address.  Why is ANY contact ok?

If you can, hold onto the shirt and the card for a while.  Try for a cooling off period, a few weeks maybe.  And then send it to him.

Sexuality and where people are with that is an interesting topic for me.  Largely because of what I went through in my younger days, yet why I still am hetero.  How I can STILL love men.  I’ve not really discussed that deeply with many, or any people.  Once my freshman college roommate and I talked about it because she had one series of experiences similar to mine at a young age.  We talked about this only 7 years ago (we’re 61 now).   Details are painful.

My uBPDbf knows the secrets to keeping me here... he figured them out, mostly on his own.  He is never to touch my neck, he constantly talks to me, and he looks me in my eyes so I don’t “disappear”.  He is the only man to keep me present.  In all my years, he figured out the secret to keep me from disassociating  during sex.  He is keenly intuitive, because of his own trauma.  Many pwBPD have that intuitive ability.  So really overt behavior makes them fearful.  They are afraid of being controlled, because many were controlled and abused when younger.  They cannot afford to be placed in that vulnerable position of feeling out of control now.  Despite being “bigger” now, you are correct, there is still a frightened child there.  And there always will be.

Your thoughts?

Xox. Gems

[Jbombjas]

Once again Gems you are entirely right.

I know it’s time to let go but I also don’t think he wants me too. But yes, he has forced me to do so. I have no choice. It’s time to find me and do the inner work and at the very least take some space from all of this.

The whole issue of respect and boundaries occurred to me on Wednesday. I’m not even sure something like that is irreparable. I’ve allowed him to walk on me. To place levels of disrespect. I’ve forgiven everything very easy. And vowed if he ever came back that would not happen again. It was out of fear of his loss. I did not create boundaries which then created disrespect. And besides how can someone give any form or respect to anyone else or even understand the concept when his emotions are at an adolescent level and he has none for himself? Of course it is up to me to teach him how to do so but maybe impossible as he won’t or is already molded with me not too.

I also agree. You’re right. He may not be the man I think he is. I’ve considered this many many times along the way. Not to put labels on things, but moreso for the sake of simplificationhere and now, I’ve wondered if he leans so heavy towards narcissistic that he is just a sick, cruel, cold sociopath. I often question who he is. But then there are times like these where I see his immense anger and lashing out and realize he’s just a broken sweet little child with absolutely no clue of who he is. He’s not purposely harming anyone. He’s not calculated. He did not do some kind of discard because I discovered him. There are so many signs along the way he is who I think he is. They are small. But I see them and trust my judgement. Of course I will always question until I know better.

And yes. It’s def time to fight for me. I know what I’m worth. What I deserve. I know my sadness keeps me a bit stagnant and obsessed and wanting to stay and fight. It’s gives me something to do. I know I need to take some time. I’m just a bit like a borderline in that it’s black or white thinking. Stay or go. There is no take time to heal. Have some space. And circle back. The immense pain created in the space says move on. I can’t take it.

One thing you have nailed once again is the control. The “overt” behavior. He has often briefly mentioned how I want control. And it’s very obvious he is the one who wants control. And want nothing to do with me when I exude that behavior towards him. He is certainly brilliant and keenly award of others emotions (which I always find ironic when he has no idea of his own or how to express them!) So I guess it’s time.

I will take some space. Hold on to the shirt. Let him breathe. I think it best for both of us. I know In my heart he has kept the door open for a reason. But, yes, he has pushed me out. So now I’ll let him take the reigns if he EVER chooses and change my mindset to moving on. It’s the only thing I can do.

[Jbombjas]

This idea is contempt and ill will is also fascinating. He has done that in the past. I have set boundaries (only to fail on following through with them out of fear) or angered him and he has disappeared briefly. I have been needy or clingy or apologetic and he has used it as a weapon of control over me. He has returned w both contempt and ill will. He lightens up over time. But that is how he has returned. I see the behavior again w that last silly threatening text. He wants to return but only with anger, manipulation and contempt as you say. Maybe. Maybe I’m making assumptions. But he doesn’t in peace. Of corpse I just see that as his stubbornness and unwillingness to let go of his ego and allow himself peace to just let go. Be kind. Move on and forward w love. I suppose I’m just far too understanding and sometimes it erodes at my Esteem and character.
I don’t want to move on but what am I supposed to do Gems?  I suppose time is the only answer. Wait. See. Reach out in a couple weeks or so. Anything you suggest I’ll follow to the T! I want to do right by me and him. By doing so it sets the stage for only good things to come.
I sure appreciate this outlet to process. So many thoughts. I know my baggage in all of it. My fears. My selfishness. My codependency and worth issues. My withdrawal fear. But I’m the end I really feel he wants me there. And for now I want to be. What kind of a person he is. Hmmm. Who knows entirely.
Any direction on where to turn would be appreciated. Or maybe I just need to take some time away. Space. Process. Leave this be as best I can for a while. I’m not so good at that. :/  I guess that is the only option tho.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Jbomb-
I need to take my dog to the vet and will respond this evening when I can give you the time and thought I want to give.  There’s is a LOT involved in this.  So much more than stated... and some of it is not easy on this forum, I know.

Be good to yourself.  That’s not your nature.  Not mine either these days sometimes.

There is that saying... “Don’t set yourself on fire to keep another person warm.”  Remember that. 

I wrote it down and stuck it to my bathroom mirror.  My uBPDbf sees it in plain sight.  Oddly... he’s never asked about it.  He has however commented on the sticky that says  “Gems... stop thinking yourself to death!”

Boys are funny.  Girls are funny, too.  People are funny.  And sad.  I’m trying to be more funny and happy than sad.  You can try that too, Jbomb.  You are so WORTH all your effort, my friend.  SO WORTH IT!

Hugs to you,
Gemsforeyes

[Gemsforeyes]

Oh, and your boundaries?  They represent your values.  Your thick line in the sand.  YOUR VALUES... how you truly hold yourself.  See if you can close your eyes on that for a bit.

Quick small example...

the other day, uBPDbf and I were discussing wills and advanced healthcare directives.  As you know we’re older.  I wasn’t sure if his family knows we’re seeing one another.  He told me I’m a Bennie in his will.  I told him that’s sweet, but I only care about how we are when we’re ALIVE.  I got figdety... and asked what happens if GOD forbid he becomes ill and no one lets me see him?  And I started to cry (I’m crying now)... I could see he was about to yell at me and call me an idiot... so I said... no!  The appropriate response to tears is HUGGING!  And he reached for me and hugged me and told me no one in his family would EVER keep me from him.  Damn, my tears...

You see... my boundary, MY VALUE... is that when someone is crying you don’t yell at them, you comfort them.  He got it.  Now will he remember?  I don’t know... I don’t cry that often, so I don’t mind if i need to remind him on occasion.

So there you are.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Jbombjas]

Thanks for being there and your replies Gems. I read some posts on here and think my problems w this guy are so minimal but it doesn’t discount the daily pain I feel at his loss. Some days I just don’t want to get out of bed. Some days I want to just recover. All I want to do is contact him. I never stop thinking about it. I can’t get a break.most days I just want him to come back and I want to know if he’s ever going to.
I don’t understand why he left the door open. Why he unblocked me from everywhere and even let me know his old number was reconnected? If he doesn’t want me to contact him why do that? Does he want me to keep contacting him? And just because he does, does it mean he will ever respond or come back or is he just feeding from my attention and love? And why hate me so much? I mean I get the whole drastic seconds regrew burn feelings thing but nothing I did was so horrific that it was unforgivable. Surely hurtful but not unforgivable. I did not steal or cheat or lie. None of those kinds of things. There’s so much I don’t know, yes about this situation and him, yes , but what he’s doing doesn’t make sense. If he didn’t want anything to do with me why not just block me out? Why be so angry?  But I suppose that is rational thinking.

I surely know what boundaries are. I’m just not so good at setting them. I try and then back off out of fear. I’ve tried many times. It caused many yo-yo effects in our time together.

I’m Trying to be good to myself. Going to yoga. Working out. I sure hope you are too. Trying to get up and take care of myself but I keep collapsing in tears. I’m trying to respect the process and give the results to the universe but it’s so hard when the door is ajar. It’d be easier knowing he was just gone.i mean it wouldn’t but at least I’d know.  And I don’t. But it’s been a month now and he’s never disappeared more than a few days. Never been this hateful or angry. Never cut me out like this. So maybe I just won’t accept that he’s gone.

Mi hope your dog is ok. Is he? Are you doing ok?

[Jbombjas]

*drastic second degree burn feelings

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Jbomb-

Hi there.  Sorry to have gone quiet on you.  Offline life gets in the way sometimes... but all okay.  I have thought about you quite a bit, and during these days away was hoping you took some deep breaths over your situation with your man.  Maybe gained some insight into your motives, more than his?

Something else that kind of “hit” me... you know I’ve only ever “blocked” one person (aside from spam callers) in my life.  This was a person I knew who was trying to sell me her leftover art supplies and I simply did NOT want or need them.  I had told her politely on probably 8 separate occasions.  She was relentless in her calls to me - To the point where uBPDbf became enraged when he’d see her name on my phone!  So I had no choice, but to block the bimbo.  Even this dude who I briefly “dated” prior to uBPDbf, haven’t laid eyes on in over 6 years, and sends me texts on every single holiday, invites me over, wants to come here; knows I’m in a long-term, committed relationship; and cannot get it through his numb skull that we’re done.  Even him I haven’t blocked!  My silence to him obviously says nothing.  Is there something wrong with ME?  Maybe I’m old school... my flashback would be that in my head the only way to be rid of a caller would be to change my number; and there’s no way I’ll do that because of some pest who fondly recalls several dates.  Besides...that guy will then mail me something, like he already did when he sent me a Valentine’s Day card this past February, so what’s the use?  I’d rather get a text I can just delete.  But I seriously digress.  I’m just saying all the blocking / unblocking that ppl do is a mystery to me.

I’d like to pick up where we left off, and before we do, I think it would be helpful for you to go back and reread our communication.  REALLY read through what we’ve talked about and see what insights you gather about YOU, because you’re the person who matters here.  Okay?  You’re the person who matters here.

Need to sign off now.  BF leaves the country tomorrow for over 3 weeks.  I’m a bit anxious about that.  Sad for me, but excited, tho’ somewhat anxious for him as well.  But his feelings are not mine.  And it’s beyond my control.

So perhaps you and I can get together, I hope.  I want to know where your thoughts have taken you.  Take good care of you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Jbombjas]

Thanks for replying Gems. I have tried to step away and haven’t done such a good job. I’m ashamed but must be honest as things stand. I took off over a week off. Had the control to stop contacting him. And yesterday I broke. I have sever pmdd which for a day or three puts me into serious depression at times. I have no impulse control. Non stop crying. Depression. Sadness. And when things like this are present in my life I can’t even get out of bed or take care of myself sadly. And I sit. All day. Obsessing. The thoughts just torture me. I smoke. And the days are very long. I was doing so so until yesterday. . And I caved. Sent him a couple texts. I’m so angry. And sad. And they showed it. I never say anything I regret. Never anything very hurtful. Im not begging for him back. But I do say things that are transparent. So right now I feel miserable. I’m just lost. I’m so confused. I don’t understand going from kindness to hate. I don’t understand why someone can’t talk to someone. I don’t understand after reading all of these posts why these silences take months and even years. Why can pwbpd move past things in shorter periods? Why does it take so long for them to “come back and talk again?” I see it for what it is. Just an object. There is no emotional attachment except for what the object does for them. But i was a damn good object. So why did it turn to hate? And why can’t that be undone? My questions go on an on. I know I’m dealing w a disordered person but I just don’t get the silence. Long long term silence. . It’s deafening. And confusing.
And here’s the deal w blocking. I fully accept and have considered what you said. I completely agree. But I was taken OFF from being blocked. He un-blocked me. He also let me know his phone was reconnected when that never ever needed to be made clear. I didn’t need to know his phone was available to contact him ever again. So it’s not the idea of the rational thought on why we block or don’t. But why it was lifted and he watches things come through? I suspect at this point , maybe he even is a full cruel narcissist (I’m starting to see what he is doing as pure evil and he as the devil -I’m just so hurt and angry- my compassion is disappearing)that he keeps the lines open to feed off my love and use it for his supply. He needn’t engage with me to get what he needs. It makes him feel good that I’m still around. I make him feel good. I always have. I always knew this. And it gives him a sense of control over me. He wants to know I’m still there in case he decides he wants me again.
At this point I hate him. I love him and I hate him. I’m not even sure I can forgive actions like this. The amount of pain I’m going through is insurmountable. Why couldn’t he at least tell me he was going? Why couldn’t he tell me why he was so angry with me and what he thinks I did? It’s not ok to treat someone like this and I’m not sure I can love someone who can. There needs to be some showing of a heart there. I could never treat anyone this way.
Gems I have the insights I need about me. Is there anything you want to share? I’m open and all ears. I know what I did. I know what I’m doing. I know why I do it and why I feel the way I do. I know why I have these issues and low self esteem at times.
I just imagine waiting like others have on here (and I’m not judging because I don’t know their love or sadness or relationship) for months for someone to return to do this PLEASE READ (excuse my language I’m just so hurt and angry) all over again. It never gets better from what I read. Reunited Times only get shorter. They never change. They are evil. So why should I sit here and have compassion and try to forgive and hope that this devil comes back? What he has done to me in my eyes is the most hurtful thing. Sure. I’ve been ghosted by men before. But never like this. Never with hate and evil and silence. Nothing I did was unforgivable. And I’m supposed to beat myself up wondering what I did wrong? Yet I can’t stop texting him. I get weak and I get angry or sad and keep on. But it doesn’t matter. He’ll never speak to me again. He’ll never come back around. And yet I want him too. I’m the hated devil for trying to love someone evil. I’m the bad person. Id like to give him space as best I can but I also am just trying to honor myself and the process and whatever I need to do to heal. If that means texting him so be it.

How will your man react to leaving or how does he? And how do you? Has this happened before? I’m here for you through it.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Jbomb-

I’m here...I’m responding.  This will take awhile. 

Please know, I mean REALLY understand in your heart of hearts... that YOU are NOT responsible for the way he is.  Not in any way, shape or form.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Gemsforeyes]

Okay Jbomb-

I have my tea and I’ve lit a cigarette... now I have a question...

The hair on the nape of my neck is standing on edge here... to the best of your knowledge, Have you ever TRULY  been in a relationship with a Narcissist?  And I mean a full-blown textbook guy... or girl, no matter really which gender.  It’s all the same.

Give yourself a few minutes to think.

Gems

[Jbombjas]

Stop that smoking.

I think I have. Well it was brief. I’m way to feisty and tell it how it is for a narcissist. Way too outspoken. We dated a couple times. I called him “your highness” he got super angry. We reunited and something small happened again and I was discarded for good. He never replied. He told me it wasn’t gonna work. And that was it. Poof. Gone. And he was def bipolar manic too. Oh the things he thought he was capable of in his mania. It was insanity.

Well this guy is just so sadistic and cruel. And so many of his behaviors are narcissistic. We call my dad one a lot bit in reality he def isn’t. He has a great heart and is a good man. He’s just very self centered and insecure a a huge ego.

I’ve been w women too Gems. So ask away.

How are you feeling? I don’t want everything to be abokt me? It’s a big day for you? How is your man reacting?

I guess I just don’t get the whole long term silence. I mean once I recover from this I’m done. He won’t get back in easy if he does at all. I’m weak now. He’s dumb. He should capitalize. They are their own worst enemies I tell ya. But I don’t get going months without talking to someone you later want back. I mean unless you have a replacement that fizzles. It’s baffling to me. I kind of get the whole hate thing. It’s either love or hate. Not both. Nothing in between. But the silence. And being able to literally shut feelings off and put them away. That’s baffling to me. Even when I was an addict I couldn’t. Made it easier. But I couldn’t.

[Gemsforeyes]

Yea, please pass me that ashtray!

You get that silence is a form of abuse, right?  A pretty severe form where you’re not given a chance to utter a word.  And any communication FROM you is ignored.  Makes you feel like NOTHING.  But you’re NOT nothing.  It’s kids’ stuff.  Stunted.  Lacks care, empathy, and concern that there’s anyone walking the earth except for the one controlling the “volume”.

If you were IN a relationship with him, this would likely continue as a pattern.  Except he’d likely ghost you.  Disappear for periods of time without explanation to you.  There’d be something in HIS head that you did (some “misdeed”); but you wouldn’t know what that was.  How would that feel?

He seems to be giving you real glimpses of how he behaves.  Do you believe your eyes?  Your heart?

My love.  I gave him a pint-sized love note to place in his wallet... to be read morning and night.  It tells him that I love him even when he cannot see me or hear my voice.  To keep these thoughts close to his heart.  That I am his best friend and lover and I will never hurt him... to please remember these things like a prayer. 

So the above is my secret “plea” for object permanence; but more than that, it’s to keep him serene when he cannot “vent” to me.  This won’t be an easy trip for him.  I drove him to the airport (and he actually LET ME DRIVE!), which shows how uneasy he is about the whole trip.  He normally hops the little train cuz it’s a pain to drive there.  He must’ve tested the communication app three times before leaving.

Now Jbomb... let's talk about going from kindness to hate to silence.  I want to hear more about the kindness phase.  Then maybe we can reconstruct.  Plus the above things.

Hugs,
Gemsforeyes

[Jbombjas]

I understand the abuse part. So much of what he does is abuse. That’s why I’ve known all along this goes no where unless he gets help. And even if he tried it probably wouldn’t improve much. And he won’t get help. He’s so broken poor thing. So yes. I get that its abuse. But I also see that he’s listening. Just not replying. Maybe I’m in denial. But I feel it. In my heart. He’s listening. He doesn’t like anything he doesn’t want to hear. But he loves the kindness. The love. My heart. I’ve always felt that. As far away as he is, it’s why he stayed for so long. And in some ways as always like a good codependent it makes me feel good to make him feel that way. I like making him feel good even when he’s a bad boy! He’s broken and I feel compelled to love him even when he breaks me. It’s a terrible urge.
And yes. It’s always been a pattern babe. He’s gone silent for days and come back around. No communication. Nothing. Just disappears and comes back. It’s always been a Patterns.
Strangely after my reaching out, and saying I wasn’t even sure if they were going through , he so kindly responded today (sarcasm)! “I hope you f’ing die” I’ve got to say. It actually made me laugh. His anger and reasons are so apparent to me. I’m actually relieved at his anger as pathetic as that may sound. . It’s indifference that scares me. With hate there is feeling. So I back away for a little while longer and stick another kindness  pin in again later! Like I said. I’m not going to give myself any time constraints. My path is my path. I’m just going to honor how I feel and what I need in the moment and give myself a break. I do feel he responded to let me know they were going through. It’s 3 year old stuff. He is def an abusive little child. Other than this, it has never really affected me. It’s not ok. But it doesn’t break my tough skin. I see what he’s doing. And why. And today he responded as a result of love given to him. Not anger. I truly think he likes it. As long as it doesn’t overload him emotionally. He wants to know I haven’t left him even tho he isn’t ready to talk.
I’m not saying it’s gonna work or ever work with him. I’m realistic. I always have been. He’s on the end of the “spectrum” of bpd on not being able to break any of these cycles. But dammit I can try. And it doesn’t have to be me that his girl. But maybe just maybe I can make a small difference to him. Make him think he’s worthy for one second. Lovable. Break a tiny fear. Just a second longer. I had one guy who was a total jerk but helped me overcome some abandonment issues. He was a terrible lover to me but he helped me there. And it was a big one. And I’m forever grateful. It was a small step. But it was a step. Maybe I’ll do nothing. I’ve always seen how he behaves. I’ve known this since day two! I just wonder sometimes if he has the heart I think he does. Or is he is just a cold feelingless devil. Now there’s some black and white thinking!

I love what you did with your man. And how you step away from the results. It’s all you can do. I think it will work wonderfully. He may have a couple ups n downs. Or the space may be great! Who knows what the universe will bring. It helps you see your fears and insecurities and get to work on stuff too. Just like all of this stuff does. I’ll tell ya. For that I’m grateful. I’ve gotten to take a good look at jbomb and make some great daily changes. And will continue.  bless these creatures for that eh? Sounds like he’s come a long way esp to let you drive and def will be missing you no matter what he says or does. He wanted to be with you right up until he departed.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Jbomb-

I’ve been thinking aLOT about Codependent behaviors lately, and grappling with those as part of my recovery so to speak.  I attended several CODA phone call meetings, but the last few didn’t hit me between the eyes.  I guess it depends on the moderator and the tone of the speakers.

But getting back to it...

My ex-H (19 years) was a NARC with BPD traits sprinkled in for good measure.  I had no idea what any of this stuff was ... NARC, BPD, Codependency, triangulation... nothing.  I had three stepkids and he had two ex-wives.  I twisted myself inside out trying to keep not only him, but all those other people happy, entertained and well-fed!  What an idiot I was!

When I sit and LET the thoughts of what I DID creep into my head, it makes me sick.  You want a story?  Here.  Geez... you can’t make this stuff up.  And don’t tell my mom I did this!  Or my uBPDbf!

Okay, so the first exW of my exH was getting married for the 4th time.  She says to me something to the effect of ... “gee...I sure wish I had a nice place like YOUR HOUSE for my reception”.  So what did I do, you ask?  Yep!  I gave her a wedding reception!  She said she’d “reimburse” me and they’d clean everything up afterward.  I cooked everything for a bunch of strangers.  The problem was, a week prior to their blissful nuptials, I was in a very bad rafting accident and nearly drowned.  Instead of drowning, I only tore my hamstring muscle top to bottom, hyperextended my knee, bruised my entire hip BONEand something else that I thank GOD have finally forgotten.  My H told her I could barely walk and her party would need to be held elsewhere.  She had a FIT, so I said “the show must go on”.  She swore that reinforcements were coming to help.  They didn’t.  I did it all.  I held that beautiful party for her and that 4th husband. 

No one helped to clean up.  About a week later, she dropped off a check for 1/2 the amount of the money I’d spent.  The check was written and signed in pencil (making it invalid).  She called me later and told me to get the other half from her son (my stepson).  The kid was 19 and I was basically supporting him.  So I was supposed to reimburse myself, I guess.  The entire experience added insult to injury.  In a big big way.  So my H the NARC’s first exW was indeed a huge NARC herself.  And I was the dangling coD. 

The moral of the story is this... if we INSIST on engaging with pw strong Narc traits, forgive yourself NOW, before it starts.  Because AFTER it happens, it’s hell my friend.  I’ve been legally divorced for almost 7 years.  It took me NO TIME to recover emotionally from my 19-year marriage.  Even the violent end to that marriage.  But I CANNOT forgive myself for the things I sacrificed.  The foolish, belittling things I ALLOWED to take place.  What’s that saying...forewarned is forearmed?  Or something like that?  No... a bad man.

This is the first time I have EVER put this mortifying thing in front of my eyes.  I am beginning to forgive myself.  I can take the wounds of the BPD (I have some of them).  But the intentional and calculated NARC cruelty?  Not so much... no, none of that.  And my grip on my coD tendencies has tightened.  That stuff does NOT gain love, affection and LEAST of all respect.  And little sister... the respect you lose is your own - Which is worth that of a hundred, no a thousand others!

But wait!  There’s more...  right after I was hurt, my H decided it would be a good time to have an affair.  And I forgave him and THEN legally married him!  Yay!  I married a man I didn’t trust.

Thoughts?  Perhaps a thread called - the mortifying acts of a funky CoD.

Hugs again, and I’m laughing at myself!
Gemsforeyes

[Jbombjas]

Hi Gems,
Oh my youbsure have been through it. I can say I’ve been there too in some forms or another. Probably not to the extent you have. I mean I grew up w my father being kind of a self centered guy. And the silent treatment was his MO. So it’s no wonder I find it again eh?
I dated a guy after college for 5 years who was abusive. physucay.  . Mentally. The whole deal. I remember when I got rid of him there was no emotional recovery either. I started running miles and miles. I was excited to eat out alone. So I know that hell of codependency and I know the relief when it’s gone. I’ve become much stronger myself.
Inside I’ve always been a fighter and a rebel. Even if I find this junk I rebel. When I was young I wasn’t heard, so I had temper tantrums. I’ve always been outspoken and while attracted to some of these broken men, I won’t stay in their bs for long. I know that the straw the broke the camels back for this current man was my lashing out at all of his bs one more time. I had done it before (and quite frankly I don’t remember much of it or what I said) but I guess this was the last time he was going to hear it. And maybe this time I was a bit harder on him. In some ways, I wanted out. I wanted things to change. Not him persay. . I wanted to have the balls to set better boundaries and follow through. I had done it when I first met him and for a few months and it worked. He listened. He wasn’t super compliant but he tried. So. I was tired of his bs. But looking back, I regret the way in which I did things. He is broken (as am I) and it’s no way to treat someone who needs better tools on how to communicate.
In the end I’m not sure who he is. I mean I only label because it’s easier to explain quickly here but is he such a narcissist that I’m playing w fire. Or is he more of a borderline (when you read things specifically for MALE borderlines he fits these descriptions to a T) just on the severe end of the spectrum doing the nesthe can in his self centered world.
I believe what he does is abusive but is it bpd behavior (not that that excuses it) or is it purposefully cruel? I don’t think he is calculated or intentionally malicious. At all. I think he is impulsive and reactive and just goes w whatever feeling he has. I think his anger symbolizes leans more towards someone who’s whereas a narc would really just not care at all. I mean I could go on and on. It’s always at the forefront of my mind with him and a place of concern, curiosity and wonder. And both pd cross over so who knows. I’m not qualified to assess things. To me he seems like a fragile broken little boy who has coped w life and is filled w rage and anger and fear. Maybe if he got sober he might have a chance expressing those emotions but the first year or two sure would be explosive for him I’d guess!
His anger again tells me something and I care. It’s filled with pain.  I know it won’t go anywhere but I want to tap into him and love him however I can. For as long as I can. He can remain in my
Life even if I have another man. He is special to me. So I’m hereand remain trying to figure it out if even as a friend and a codependent wanting to repair his hurt he thinks I have caused and trust me a enough to just allow me in his life. Maybe it’s all a pipe dream. And if so I’ll move on at some point. I’m sure he will be back at some point however.