Trying to prepare...

[pursuingJoy]

I could use some help. My husband is spending all day with his uBPD mom, who currently refuses to visit us or speak to me. The last time he was there was for his birthday and she laid on the FOG so thick, he came home absolutely miserable.

He is in complete denial about her abnormal way of relating, so for now I just support his relationship with his mom and when he left this morning, I told him I hope he has a great day. Problem is, I know she's laying on the guilt and pressure to make me concede to her wishes. They're discussing personal things I've asked him not to share (he has already sent me a text indicating that). She's asking if I want things from around her house (it's very much her MO to give gifts loaded with expectation). My daughter needed a desk she was getting rid of so I said yes. I already regret saying yes. After his text and the gifts, I'm on high alert and I'm trying to prepare.

Questions for you: should I just say no to all gifts from now on? I have an intense dislike for the obligations that come with her gifts, and for the way I'm told, "But she's done so much for you, why can't you..." by my husband.

Also, do I bring up the point that they were discussing things I'd asked him not to share with her or chalk it up to his blind denial and let it go until a time when he might understand? Both of them feel that I am the sole cause of any relationship problem right now. I feel paranoid, like I have to maintain a positive attitude and be careful where I step lest I accept this "crazed wife" mantle they've created for me. We have a therapy session Friday. 

[Harri]

Hi PJ!  

Ugh.  I am sorry things are so difficult.

should I just say no to all gifts from now on? I have an intense dislike for the obligations that come with her gifts, and for the way I'm told, "But she's done so much for you, why can't you..." by my husband.

I would.  I am not sure I see the positive in accepting gifts... or even if I see a neutral outcome in accepting gifts if she and your husband are going to use that to FOG.  

Also, do I bring up the point that they were discussing things I'd asked him not to share with her or chalk it up to his blind denial and let it go until a time when he might understand?

I would do both of the first things you mention:  I would bring it up *and* I would chalk it up to his blind denial/enmeshment.  The question is do you want to wait until you are in therapy to talk to him about it?  Forgive me, I forget if you see a T individually as well as joint with your hubby.  

Even if he is acting from a place of conditioned and or enmeshed behavior and thinking, it is still hurtful and damaging to you and your trust.  You can use knowing where his behavior comes from to help temper your response to it.  

As someone who was raised in a dysfunctional family and had/has many behaviors that are dysfunctional and damaging to relationships of all kinds, I do not think getting a free pass is healthy and I would not want someone to dismiss something because of my past.  I can say that now, easily.  I also remember though, how the very best thing some people did for me was to call me on my crap.  Only sometimes was it done with the intention of helping me.    Either way, that is what opened my eyes and led to awareness that certain things were not healthy.   I have no idea what your husband would prefer.  I do know that you holding things in and making excuses for your husband is the very same things as walking on eggshells in this instance.

I wonder if you might benefit from reading the following article The Do's and Don'ts of a BPD Relationship in terms of helping you with how to approach and support your husband and protect yourself and what you value.

See what you think.  I am not saying he has BPD but he has some definite problems with differentiation and boundaries among others.

[pursuingJoy]

Thanks for sharing insight, Harri!

I am not sure I see the positive in accepting gifts... or even if I see a neutral outcome in accepting gifts if she and your husband are going to use that to FOG.  

I accepted because my daughter needed a desk and because I offend her when I don't take the gifts she offers. Under our current circumstances, declining a gift will appear petulant to them. I also know that accepting may appear selfish to them. "oh, she'll set boundaries but she'll still take my stuff." It feels like a lose/lose/lose situation. So I accepted, knowing that I risk it being held over my head or coming with conditions. Sometimes she takes them back or tells me what I can/cannot do with them.    I'm walking on eggshells, right?
  

I would do both of the first things you mention:  I would bring it up *and* I would chalk it up to his blind denial/enmeshment.

So I did mention it in a simple, non-confrontational texted question. He insists that he didn't share any information. I thanked him for clarifying, and while it is possible that I misinterpreted, he has inappropriately shared info with her before and not understood the boundary when I asked him not to. I don't trust either of them to keep anything confidential. I can make a choice not to flip out, adjust expectations, inform myself about the disorder, and as you said temper my response.

I do not think getting a free pass is healthy...you holding things in and making excuses for your husband is the very same things as walking on eggshells in this instance.

You are 100% correct but my head feels like a tangled mess. I'm trying to figure out what's 'holding back' and what's 'jumping on the triangle/blaming/making someone else responsible for my emotions.' For a while there I felt like I did nothing but talk to him about my frustrations. He wasn't able to take in the information so I moved to self-soothing and finding support elsewhere. I don't tell him everything I see anymore because it feels counterproductive. (This also may be my conflict-averse excuse - I'll chew on it.) I can't hold everything back, though, so maybe it's healthy to let some things through? Does that sound reasonable?

Article was great. I don't have any desire to take on the role of emotional caretaker for my MIL and the discussion helped me realize that part of the reason I instinctively don't want to is because she does not take any responsibility for her behavior. If there was a desire to improve or work on her part or do better, I would like to believe that I would put in equal effort. I can still use the info to help my husband be a healthier caretaker for his mom.

I am not saying he has BPD but he has some definite problems with differentiation and boundaries among others.

I've often wondered if he has BPD. Best I can tell, it's years of conditioning that may or may not be undone. It is still overwhelming, especially when I feel like I'm 'doing the work' alone. He comes to therapy, but he says it's to support me.  

Thanks again, Harri. I always appreciate your thoughts.

[pursuingJoy]

Huh.

So after anticipating my husband coming home from his mom's in a FOG and feeling miserable, he was happy yesterday. His mother showered him with gifts, money for new shoes and lots of goodies. Is this part of a cycle? Can someone please explain what's going on?

[Harri]

Is this part of a cycle? Can someone please explain what's going on?

Hmm... phase of the moon?    It is hard to say if it is a cycle and I am not sure what is going on except to think sometimes the less desirable behaviors just don't appear.  I can remember times when my mother acted completely 'normal' and it shocked and surprised me.  For me, it was part of the pull that kept me close to her until I finally started to learn about disordered behaviors and even normal human behavior.

Or did you mean about your husband coming home feeling happy, though I think the two are linked.

It was always such a relief and I remember feeling a giddy happiness when my mom was on point and happy.  It used to mean I could give a sigh of relief and unclench my colon.

[pursuingJoy]

It used to mean I could give a sigh of relief and unclench my colon.

Hi Harri!    Honey yes this, this is so real! From what I can tell his emotional state is linked to hers...he was miserable on his birthday because she was miserable. When she's happy, she gives money and gifts galore. When she's not happy, she withholds. <Can I just point out here how awful it is for a parent to make a child feel that way? You should have not have to feel relief when she's normal. Normal is a baseline. Ugh.>

Guess what? My husband asked me for a list of the things his mom had done. I created a list of about 40 things that ranged from odd to toxic. I'd discussed every single one with him before, but when he saw the list, for the first time he said, "Wow. I would feel the way you do if all of that had happened to me." You could have knocked me over with a feather.  Something about the list changed his perspective.

THEN, in therapy, we started through the list and talked about how to approach these situations differently. He actually admitted that his mom behaves like a child and does really 'weird' things. He thinks she's trying way so hard to fit in that she makes it awkward. Therapist also made some bolder statements about toxic behavior that he did not contradict. Baby steps, but I'll take it.

So thankful for this group that has carried me through some crazy-making moments.

 

[Harri]

Hi PJ.  I am sorry I am just catching up with this now. 

What wonderful news that he was open to talking about his moms behaviors with you and in therapy!   Those are baby steps to us but I think emotionally for him they are huge.

How are things now?  Did he revert back to the way he was before or is he still more open?

It must have felt great when he validated your list!   

[pursuingJoy]

Thanks for checking in, Harri! 

Things have leveled off at the moment. He still talks to his mom every day, but we don't talk about her unless we're in therapy (as suggested by the therapist).

With guidance from the T, I suggested that we invite his mom to visit us in November for his daughter's bday. He insists his mom won't come unless her ultimatums are met (ultimatums are that I call her and discuss our last conversation, which T agrees is not a good idea). He countered that we could coordinate a birthday trip to the zoo and invite her, an idea I like even better. She may not come, but that's on her.

His mom is currently ok so his emotions have also leveled off. As long as her needs are met and she feels happy, she doesn't care if I'm in the picture or not. I become a target for both of them the second there is the perception that I am in the way of her needs being met.

I'm insisting on counseling because the day is coming when she won't be ok and my husband and I will start fighting again.