Things Got Physical...

[sabas]

I found this board a couple of months ago and have posted a few topics about my relationship with my BPD wife that has been incredibly rocky recently. I got some great advice and felt validated myself for the first time since getting together with her. I had moved out during a planned break and I then moved back in about three weeks ago. Things were a bit better, but she still was obsessed with finding my tone and affectation "not positive enough", I was still making her feel lonely by not meeting her (what I think are unreasonable) needs. She interprets anything neutral, or really anytime where we aren't actively connecting, as bad and something I need to fix. She says I'm not excited or enthusiastic enough and I make her feel lonely and that she is "dragging" me through life. I feel like her expectations due to her diagnosed BPD are completely unrealistic and that, even though I am more reserved and introverted, I (or anyone else) will never be able to make her feel good until she addresses some of her PTSD from child abuse, and her BPD.

So we've had a few relatively small fights about that, and I feel like I'm living in a different reality from her. But I was encouraged because we went to a therapist together that actually specializes in DBT and she is very nice and good at her job and we were able to communicate better in her presence than we ever do alone because my wife is forced to stay calm and actually listen to me. We talked about all these issues with the therapist and I had to hold back tears when the therapist told my wife that actually because of my calm, reserved demeanor and un-reactivity when my wife is having a breakdown or an angry episode, that I was actually a perfect mate for my wife (if she was going to be married). I walked out of the session feeling optimistic, and we scheduled basically a standing appointment every week with her.

Then last night happened. I work about 50 hours a week at my day job and helping to manage our own business that is ostensibly my wife's full-time job. Then on weekends I watch our very energetic and demanding 11-month old son while my wife works making food for our restaurant (the weekends are her busiest times, during the week she has downtime while our son is in daycare and I'm at my day job). So I'm stressed. We're also just scrapping by with the restaurant as summer has ended and business has dropped substantially. Scrapping by as in having to put our residential rent on my credit card in a few days. Over the weekend we've spent a lot of time together just hanging out at home watching tv. We've laughed and talked and had what i thought was a nice pleasant, normal time.

So last night an employee of ours who has been flaky all weekend starts lining us up for her to take a sick day tomorrow. There's no one to cover for her and she's not really sick. My wife is also planning on going on a hike and sleepover thing with a few women she's met recently, so i was going to have our son all day. Both my wife and I are upset. My wife even says, "I'm about to get really mad". My wife also suggests that I'll have to get someone to babysit and then work all day (10AM - 9PM) at the restaurant because my wife is making food in the morning and hiking in the afternoon. I am pissed at our employee and expressing how PLEASE READty it would be to have to work all day on one of the two days i have off (during which I watch my son the entire time). Suddenly my wife is mad. She says all weekend she hasn't seen me excited or as animated as I am now, while angry. I'm so confused. I feel like this is a really disappointing situation and I've been mad for about two minutes. I had also calmly said, that yes, I would work so that my wife could go have fun because she doesn't get out much. So I was pissed but I was willing to work. My wife keeps pressing, and I'm incredulous. I don't understand how she can't understand (especially when she is the one who is usually unreasonably angry about something) that I would be upset by this. I also don't understand how th past two pleasant days haven't been "enough" for her to allow me to get upset now. She says even though we were laughing, talking, cuddling, eating together, etc., that she was the one doing all the talking, while I was flat and boring. I am legitimately baffled. The night before she had said, "it's so nice that we found each other because we understand each other's minds and senses of humor, more than most people", I agreed. Now it's become I was boring and quiet and unenthused. I go quiet. I don't have anything more to say, this feels unreasonable and I don't want to get into a huge fight. Eventually I get up and she rushes up as well, she says something inflammatory and acts like "oh, now you're upset". I try to ignore her and go to smoke a cigarette (which I hardly ever do but I was stressed and sad). She says the normal things: this isn't working, she wants to end it, once we are divorced I will realize how difficult I am and that my wife was right all along, I'm boring and make her feel alone, I haven't been trying at all. These things really push my buttons even after all these years. I have great difficulty with being misunderstood, and the epitome of that is feeling so devoted and caring and in love with her, and feeling like i show her by how i interact and how i will do literally anything for her; and she thinks I'm awful and make her feel terrible, it tears me apart.

So i kind of lose my cool. I say I've looked up what it's like for people married to a pwBPD and that a pwBPD wears there partner out. And she's wearing me out. She says she hates me and some other insult I don't remember, I say, see this is what a pwBPD do too! I really regret saying these things. I then walk out the backdoor with my cigarette. I'm about to light it when out of nowhere her hand hits both my face and the cigarette. I hadn't even realized she was next to me. She says "how would you like it if I called you a sociopath!". I'm stunned by the hit. It didn't hurt, and only part of her hand made contact with my lip and chin, but she swung hard. She says now that she was trying to knock the cigarette out of my mouth, which I mostly believe, but she clearly didn't care if she made contact with me and she swung hard. I basically go lizard brain. I remember feeling so incredulous that she would go this far, I never thought we would hit each other. More than being hurt by the hit, I was so devastated by the fact that we're hitting each other now. I never imagined my life ending up here. Like I said, after that flash of thought, I lose it. I shoved her in the chest. I hate myself. It was a quick, hard, sharp shove. The only way I can describe it is as the way a man would kind of shove another man while they're stupidly jawing at each other, in a "back off, dude" way. Not in an actual fighting manner but in a get-out-of-my-face manner. It knocks her back a step, she doesn't fall, and isn't hurt, and she doesn't come close to falling, but it was forceful and i'm stunned I've done it. While shoving I say "what the PLEASE READ is wrong with you?". She looks at me in disbelief and runs to the bedroom. I immediately breakdown crying. I can't believe what I've done. I always told her I would never put my hands on a woman, and I know her history of being physically abused. It has smashed the idea I had of myself as calm and loving. I can never say I haven't put my hands on a girl ever again. I just regret it so much, immediately. I go blank. This doesn't feel real. I've done something I can never take back. I get in the guest bed and sob in the fetal position like I haven't since I was a child.

After calming down I begin searching the internet in fear. "my wife hit me and I pushed her" is the term i type in. I don't know how to think now. I vacillate between self-loathing and a slight anger at having been hit first. I eventually convince myself that she hit me first, in the face, and i pushed her and didn't harm her. But I still don't know what to think. I'm terrified our marriage is over. I still love her. I don't consider either of us actually violent. I would make up right this moment. But I know she will hate me. Things will never be the same, is what I fear. How can she ever trust me again? Look at me with love and not have some measure of disdain/fear/disgust? I eventually fall asleep.

This morning I have our son in my bed because he's been waking up at 4AM recently. At 7:30 I hear her door open. I don't have my glasses or contacts and I'm blind without them. Unfortunately I have to go to the master bathroom to get my contacts before I can do anything. She's in there. I carry our son in. She ignores me. I ask for my contacts. She moves out of the way instead of handing them to me. She's acting scared of me and it feels disingenuous and meant to make me feel bad, I don't believe she's actually scared. I say "are you acting scared of me? because you don't need to". She says I shoved her "like a man, towards stairs". There were two stairs down from our deck about 5 feet behind her, she took one step back and didn't get within 3 feet of them. Obviously I'm still distraught and hate myself for ever touching her, but I also feel like I'm about to be totally demonized. I say, you hit me in the face. We argue. She denies ever touching me, and that she simply took the cigarette out of my mouth and threw it. I say you cannot deny making contact with me face. I say you swung hard. I say "imagine if the roles were reversed and I hit your face?" She mostly deflects and ignores. She attacks me for what I did with no context, as if she did nothing. She brings up her past. She says I'm dead to her. She threatens calling the police and getting a restraining order. She acts like I could possibly hurt my son. I'm mad and say, I can say the same about you. She threatens police again. I walk away. She goes back to getting ready to leave to make food for our restaurant, and I make breakfast for our son. Eventually she comes out of the bathroom and asks me to leave the house because she can't be in the same room as me. I initially refuse, but later I get dressed to go for a drive. I leave for 30 min and come back when she has to go to the restaurant's kitchen.

That basically brings us to now. I feel more uncomfortable with myself and the world than I can ever remember. I can't feel anything but fear and pain and regret. I'm so scared that that will be my final act towards her. I torture myself with thoughts of us showing affection to each other, laughing, kissing, and how I've actually shoved that woman I did all those great things with and who is now my wife. I shoved my wife while my baby slept 30 feet away. I can't deal with it. I don't know how. I have no idea what to do. She won't listen to any apology. She hates me. I'm just like her abusers now. I can't live with what I've done. And I love her and don't want to lose her, I desperately want for everything to be better more than I've ever wanted anything. I want to get along and cuddle like we were doing only 15 hours ago. And yet I'm paralyzed. I see no way forward. I only see keeping my distance and letting her calm down, hoping against hope that she will see that I'm not evil and that I made a mistake, that I love her and am absolutely devoted to her. And I want to make her see that but I don't see anyway that I can make that happen.

I don't know what I'm looking for from the great community here. I know this is incredibly long. But has anyone been through anything like this? How do I move forward if i want her back and things to be normal? Did I commit a crime? I would like honest answers about whether or not I am a bad person for what I've done and that she would be better off getting away from me. I don't feel like I am in a good place to judge myself. Should I just let her go because I have put my hands on her when I know how she was so physically abused by her own mother and step-father? Is there any hope we'll ever get over this? Did I lose control once in an out of character way? Or in a I can't control myself way, and I'm probably not fit to be in a marriage with someone who's been abused and is a pwBPD? I have no one else to talk to and I'm more scared than I ever have been in my life. A lot of those questions are probably self-indulgent and self-pitying. I promise I really do not validation if that is not what my actions deserve. And I truly thank anyone who reads this.

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[Radcliff]

I'm sorry to hear that things got physical.  It's totally natural for you to feel overwhelmed by what has happened, and to be feeling shame and guilt.  But it was also totally natural for you to reflexively push her backward when you were shocked that she hit you.  That is a defensive reaction.  You responded with no more force than she used, and stopped immediately because you were safe.  So, do your best to forgive yourself and shed the shame.

That said, it's important for things to not get physical again.  No BPD skills advice we give you here is going to change the fact that as a competent adult, she is responsible for her violence.  It's important to call that out so that nobody who experiences violence is made to feel responsible.  But our pwBPD are not likely to take responsibility.  We can only control our own behavior.

If she hit you like that again in a month, what would you do?
Looking at the situation earlier in the evening as things were escalating, what were some things you did that were ineffective or made the situation worse?  How would you play it differently next time?  

RC

[sabas]

Thanks, RC. That means a lot. You've given me some great support since I've been posting here.

And you're right. I feel into escalating with her, like she wanted me to. I almost feel as if we kept escalating until we were saying almost the worst things possible and then I tried to walk away after immaturely getting the last word, because the disorder causes her to want to keep escalating if I'm walking away, there was really nowhere else to go except hit me. All the words had already been said. That's not an excuse for her, but I think it's a lesson in doing everything I possibly can to get out of the escalation cycle. Her complaints with me always have that kernel of truth, as you've said, and so I get caught in justifying and arguing because I have a difficult time remembering the BPD and I think I get caught up in giving the complaints way more logic/reason/benefit of the doubt than I should. I should have probably said "I don't want to argue about this tonight, I'm going to bed", if that didn't work i should have left the house.

It's also true that if she doesn't take some responsibility for hitting me that I'm not sure where to go. I think that could be the final straw for me, it would feel like the basis for our relationship is gone. I hope when she eventually calms down she realizes her part in the confrontation. If she hits me again, I have to slow down and pause for more than half a second. I think if I had delayed my reaction I could have avoided the shove. But I think you're right in that I have to be better about not JADE-ing. I'm very logical and I don't mind arguing (with people other than my wife), and like I said, I hate being misunderstood, this leads me to so badly want to justify and explain, I have to separate myself from that.

I'm a little worried that her mother made these insane verbal and physical fights such a staple of my wife's childhood that if we calm down and get over this, that it won't end up being as affecting as it will be to me. I think that's partially what has made the crazy verbal altercations such a common occurrence with us, initially I found it so crazy, I had experienced nothing like it in my family or in previous relationships, but to my wife it was how people "who love each other" interact. I do not want that to be how shoving and hitting is classified.

[Turkish]

It could be that she remembers differently than you. Years after we split, I mentioned the time my ex flew into a rage when I let or son fall asleep on my shoulder before his bath. She slammed the door of the fridge hard enough to knock the door contents onto the floor and it made a huge mess (which I cleaned up). She got a pained look on her face, "see? I don't remember that!" She actually believed me.  It was the shame that she could be violent which likely resulted in she blocking that indecent from her memory. Her father was very violent in the past, and she told me this when we were dating.  She abhorred DV.

She struck you,  and you reacted angrily and "struck" back. Your memories may be clear, but hers not so much.  You're both hurt and angry. How do you think you could avoid this in the future? I suspect this might cool down in a few days. 

[Radcliff]

I agree with Turkish that she is likely to remember the incident differently from you.  Remember, with many pwBPD, feelings=facts.  It's very possible that you will not be able to get past her reality distortion and come to a common view of what happened.  Your mileage may vary, so you could gently test this in a calm time.  Do it in a neutral way, like trying to agree that physical violence in either direction has no place in your relationship.  If you go on a campaign to be understood and get her to take responsibility, she will harden her position and you'll be worse off.

If she hits you again, let's assume that you'll have trained your reflexes and don't strike back.  You'll de-escalate the situation, and remove yourself if you have to.  There needs to be a consequence to her that follows naturally from her actions.  It could be that you spend the night in a hotel.  It could mean that you tell someone.  It's a very good idea to figure it out in advance.  What do you think would work best?

RC

[sabas]

I hadn't thought of what Turkish brings up about her memory, that's a little disconcerting to me. I've always had trouble when I've tried to be the "bigger man", even before i knew about BPD when I just thought she was difficult, and I apologize or try to move past something it always ends up with me taking all of the blame. If she remembers it differently, and I agree that trying to convince her otherwise will just make things worse, then if we talk about violence having no place in the relationship it feels inevitable that that will simply mean violence from me because in her mind that's the only violence that occurred. Any advice on how to try to talk about it and how we can't have it happen again but avoid taking 100% of the blame? I usually don't mind taking the blame, because that's just how it's been, but I've started to realize that when I do she will then hold it against me later even when we've calmed down and moved past it. Like, it will become "so how will you, sabas, contain yourself when we're arguing?" and we'll completely ignore her role in it.

I think having a plan is a great idea. I think going to a hotel would probably be my best option. And it would force us both to calm down, and if I didn't tell her which hotel I was going to then I could hopefully avoid escalating any further or continuing any verbal fighting. I really wish I had been able to do that this first time, because it would have forced her to see it in a different light. But I guess it happened and I need to deal with that reality and not focus on a different one that I wish had occurred.

[Radcliff]

That's good that you're realizing that while taking the blame in the short term seems to calm things down, in the long term it doesn't help.  I should say specifically that inappropriately accepting responsibility isn't good.  In these cases partial validation can come in handy.  In most situations there's something you can own.  If you're five minutes late from work, she says you were an hour late, she has a tantrum and throws dinner at you, and she says you ruined the whole evening, you can apologize for being late without taking responsibility for the rest of it.  When you are careful about what you own (owning what's appropriate but no more), it helps keep your self respect, which is important.

With regards to agreeing that no violence takes place and her only thinking you were violent, be careful not to get trapped in JADEing.  You can give it a shot and then let it go if you don't get traction.  Also remember that you don't need to get her to agree to boundaries.  You could say that if she hits you again, you won't push back, but will spend the night at a hotel.  Don't argue after that or attempt to get her to agree.  Just put it out there and move on, perhaps to a topic she finds less threatening and more validating.

RC

[sabas]

Hey RC, thanks for the reply. I had a really difficult time in tightroping between not JADE-ing and not arguing with her perception (like you said, feeling = facts) and also not taking 100% of the responsibility. Unfortunately I came down on taking way too much responsibility. She asked to talk after 2 days silence from both of us. And I started the conversation, I said I was incredibly sorry for pushing her, I still loved her and I wanted to stay together. She then made it clear she doesn't think she did anything wrong, by completely ignoring the fact that she contacted me first. She only acted violated, like I totally broke her trust, and that part of her, and friends she told about it, was thinking I'm a monster.

I had no idea how to react. I should have had much more of a plan. For the days leading up to this conversation I seriously thought that if she couldn't admit her fault in the fight that I might just leave, or at least refuse to discuss it further. That all crumbled. The thing is I am so, so sorry for pushing her. So she, in a way, exploited that to make it 100% of the focus of what happened. I did try to gently push back and say, she did hit me, whether she believes she meant to or not. But she refused to hear me. She thinks that, if she made any contact at all, that it was a grazing. And I should have realized she wasn't trying to hit me. I tried to explain but she didn't hear it at all and I could tell if I pushed much further we would be screaming at each other again. In the moment I didn't want to get divorced over this, and I remembered what Turkish said about her memory being totally different from mine. So I took the blame. I apologized profusely.

In the end, if I had actually pushed her out of the blue with no provocation I would have been happy with her response to my apology. We eventually hugged. But the thing is, I was provoked. Directly after the conversation I was mostly just relieved. But as I laid in bed and in the time afterwards, it's become very, very difficult for me to not feel like I just plead guilty to a crime (an actual crime, really) that I didn't commit. It's eating me up. She told her friend and cousin her version and they "scared for her". And I don't think reopening the conversation is an option, as she kind of baited me asking if I thought it was her fault, and I said no because I believed it would not end well. But now I feel trapped in this reality that she's created and i've validated and in it I'm an abuser. I hate it, but I also want to keep the peace and stay married.

How do I reconcile this? Deal with it myself or risk bringing it up with her? Right now it seems like I have to live with it but it's so difficult, at least in the immediate aftermath.

[Witz_End]

There's good advice above, but I don't want you to feel alone here.  Things do not get physical normally here, but there are two cases.  I'm a lot like you that it's just not in who I am either.  The problem is, sometimes these situations can push us to extremes we end up not feeling proud of.

In one case years ago, way before understanding BPD was part of things, my wife and I had an arguement that got heated enough that I recognized my own need to step away.  Things had built inside me that I could feel I was near a limit.

I left the bedroom and walked out into a living room.  Our son (late teens at the time) was out there.  She came flying out of the bedroom in banshee mode and screamed "Hey Asshole!  Get back in here!"

Our son's eyes went wide and he made a b-line to his room.  I gave her a look that probably said "did you really just do that in front of our son" but did not say a word.  Instead, I realized I needed to get further away for space... and the last thing I needed to do was to go back into the room.  So, I started walking down the hall to leave the house, again without saying a word.

"Okay!  Fine!  If you're going to walk away instead, then it's over!  I'm done.  We're done."

I'm spun tight.  I need the space to calm.  And now there's emotional blackmail added - if I do not go to the room, we are over.

These days, I would not respond to the blackmail, but in that case, I decided that I'd go in there and let her rage and just hold myself together through it.  So, I turned and walked toward the room.

As she saw this, she started saying "no... nah ah... you were walking away, so walk away... we are over."  I felt not only emotionally blackmailed but now jerked around and the thought inside was to just walk into the room and what she said or did from there was up to her.  I was not going to respond to the 180.  She wanted me in the room so I would go to the room.  The rest was up to her.

As I came near to walk past, she lashed out with her arm straight at me and made contact with my stomach in a way that had force like a punch, but did not really hurt.  It was a violent motion aggressive, and I was already wound tight inside, feeling not allowed to leave when I knew I needed to.

I responded reflexively, grabbing her arm, pulling toward me to pull her off balance, then pushing.  She toppled backwards and landed on a wooden box.  I stood dazed at what had just happened and then all hell broke loose about how I was an abuser.  I recognized I was responding to physical aggression, but was upset with myself even so.  And she hauled off and smacked me so hard I saw stars and my jaw hurt... but I took it and let it stand because inside I felt it was fair.

Like in your case, in her mind she was reaching out to hold me from going into the room.  She claims she reached out her arm and had stopped the motion of it and I had walked into it.  In her mind that is the reality.

I *do* believe that may be what she intended, much like your wife may have meant to knock the cigarette from your mouth.  What she does not realize is that her own emotion at the time came out very violently in the movement and that it was executed and perceived as a punch/blow.  Her arm was still moving as she connected with me and there was force behind it still.

I could have responded better.  I should have responded better.  I should have avoided it by ignoring the blackmail manipulation.  The violent move was a trigger, but the emotional feeling of being trapped was a factor as well.

A bunch of things can come together into a sort of "perfect storm" in these cases.  It seems that the key is more of an earlier intervention of sorts.

I started a thread here about the other time... and it was a case I feel much less able to say that I was acting in self defense, so more iffy on my part, regardless of intentions.  Things in responses there, though, may apply here for you. 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338701.msg13069391#msg13069391

I do believe that in your situation, as much as I realize how you felt and how true it is that BPD in a relationship wears the partner down and does major damage... the way you used that was explosive.  Understandable and true, but it thrusts salted fingers into a wound, deep with shame about having the condition, insecurities about it, and guilt over past actions related to it.

It was probably difficult enough for her to face that she has it... and so many don't... so, feeling like it's lobbed at her in an argument is going to drive really deep.  The fact that she said what she did about you being a sociopath as she lashed out physically says that it was your use of her diagnosis that triggered the physical response.

I don't point that out to guilt you or anything.  Obviously, I've screwed up too in these situations.  But, perhaps understanding the why can help you avoid that explosion in the future.

[sabas]

Witz_End, I really appreciate your response. I have been feeling alone and desperate to figure this out because it eats at me constantly. I'm totally in agreement about using the BPD against her. I reached a breaking point emotionally in her constant critiques of me while I feel like I give my absolute all for our household and relationship, but that's my choice, and I should have known that she was going to escalate as long as I did. It was a stupid thing to do, and the things that happened afterwards are certainly tied to it. If I had merely said I don't agree, and walked out, she may not even follow me or try to hit my cigarette. We actually talked about the BPD remark and she explained it clearly, a lot how you did, and expressed that it's about the most hurtful thing to say to her. And I believe it. I think immaturely, sometimes I get tired of biting my tongue and while she is going for the most hurtful things to say to me I want to just let lose and do the same. Not healthy and not productive at all.

It's amazing how very similar the incident with your wife you describe is to mine. I also am a pacifist and it really shattered some image I had of myself, I had actually imagined how i would react if a woman hit me and in my imagination I always remained calm and at the very most gently restrained them. Never did I think I was capable of what I did Saturday. It pains me, and it's honestly the action I most wish I could reverse in my lifetime. Especially because I know I can take a little hit, and I know that she's been physically abused by family members in the past, and she's much more likely to associate that type of violence with her childhood and a total violation of trust. And of course, she is a woman smaller than me.

I think in the aftermath my expectations were too high. I felt horribly, and I wanted her to feel the same way, as, what I thought of as, the instigator in the violence. I should not be expecting some mirroring of my own feelings. If we unravel the whole incident, she could feel the BPD remarks were just as much a justification to swing at my cigarette/face as I felt the swing was to the push. In that way I do feel okay about my apology and acceptance of responsibility, because in a vacuum, I see pushing her for any reason as about as bad as it gets, instigated or not. I should be sorry for that. For some selfish reason though, it is still greatly troubling me that she believes this was so one-sided and, even more selfishly, that she is telling people this.

What happened in the aftermath of your incident (if you don't mind sharing it, i respect if you do)? Did you have any expectations from her side? And how much responsibility for the incident as a whole did you take? I think based on what you've shared, that I should be willing to be glad we were able to talk about it in any way, and for her to be able to at least say she forgives me (her actions since say a different thing, but it hasn't even been a week) knowing how she thinks the incident went down is a positive sign. I think my ego is still in the way about being "someone to be scared of" and a person who gets violent first.

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry to hear that the conversation with her didn't go as you'd hoped.  It's not great, but totally understandable that your guilt feelings made it difficult to not fall on your sword.  As hard as it may be, continue to work on shedding the shame.  You were put in a very difficult situation, and you were not prepared for it.  You can't change the past.  Just resolve to act differently if there's a next time.

My main concern is the missed opportunity to set a boundary about physical violence against you, and your risk of experiencing violence in the future.  I waited until my wife had been violent many times over a long period before trying to set boundaries, and it was too late at that point.  You've just had one incident.  It's rocked your world, but it's just one.  Adapting and responding effectively can make a difference here.  If she hits you and you don't react physically at all, then go to a hotel, that sends a powerful message through action; you don't have to get her to agree with your perspective.

How have things been going with her for the past couple of days?

RC

[sabas]

Thanks, RC. Talking to people on the board has helped to try and move past the regret and pain of having done what i did. I do think after this awful experience and the time afterwards that I will be able to keep my calm and go to a hotel. As you say, it would be a powerful message. And even if her feelings shifted the facts, I could at least be happy with my reaction, which would be far better than how I feel currently.

Since we talked on Tuesday she's vacillated from punishing me, keeping me at arm's length, and being fairly normal. I'm not allowed to sleep in our bed, I sleep in the guest room. I feel very uncomfortable being "normal" with her because most of the time it's clear she is mad or upset at me.

We actually just got into a fight this morning because she's unhappy with my communication since our talk. I've truly not been sure how to behave. I've mostly gone through the motions of everyday life, and she is frustrated because she thinks that's what i always do, leaving her feeling "alone" in this, and that I'm "just waiting for her to get over it". Which in a way I guess I am. Perhaps it has nothing to do with BPD, and just that we are different people, but I'm always confused with the level of communication she desires.

After our talk on Tuesday I would think it would be obvious that this is something that will stick with me (I said exactly that) and that I'm thinking about it all the time. We've also been very busy, so I didn't see her until 9pm Wednesday, and then we had a dinner party she arranged and didn't get back home until 9pm again. Apparently during those days she's wanted me to let her know I'm thinking about what happened, and how bad I feel, and what I'm doing to get over it and avoid it in the future. All things we talked about on Tuesday but she wants more. My way of dealing with traumatic things is mostly to think about them and try to go through the motions of regular life (we again talked about this on Tuesday). When it's something between us, I guess I try to have "normal" times to put some distance between us and the incident, without rehashing the same things over and over. She wants constant communication, of every thought and feeling. And I think what we each think is happening and what the other person wants is so disparate.

As I said I feel like she wants incessant communication, an impossible level, especially when I work 60 hours a week and we have a baby and she feels like I don't communicate at all; that she's told me what she wants and I ignore her and remain totally silent and unreadable. I don't know how to close this gulf. I get so drained by the amount of attention and time I perceive she needs, especially when just getting by at the moment (rent for home and business, maintaining our house we have on the market, taking care of the baby, having opposite schedules so I work weekdays during the day and she works nights and weekends) is so time-demanding too. And then she reaches a breaking point as I'm "not communicating" enough. And I think you'd have to be a different kind of human to have to be told what she wants to be told, it's so self-evident to me that I don't even think to say it. And then I resent her and she resents me. I don't even know if this difference is BPD-related or just totally different personalities.

[Witz_End]

What happened in the aftermath of your incident (if you don't mind sharing it, i respect if you do)?

With the first one (not the link), it took a few days for it to seem to settle into her mind that I had never been physical with her for 13 years prior and that I was not an abuser.  I remember a couple talks in the first day or two where she was focused on the fact that people who are abused excuse the behavior and that that becomes a pattern, but that talk faded and after discussing it more rationally, she seemed to understand why I had reacted... at least enough to where she did not see me that way anymore.

With the more recent event, a couple months ago, it also seemed that within a couple of days, she realized it wasn't intended and that my intention had been to get past her for the keys to keep her safe.  She may still have feelings about my doing that and how I did it, which I totally understand, but I do not think she sees it as me intending to hurt or abuse her.  The problem with knowing what she may think of it still is that she has clamped down more recently on talking about things (not as a result of that particular night).  I do think that she may realize inside how out of control she was that night and how emotional we both had been.

Did you have any expectations from her side?

What do you mean by expectations?

And how much responsibility for the incident as a whole did you take?

The one in this post... I owned my reaction and apologized that it hurt her.  I did make it clear that it was a defensive reaction to her aggressive move.  She explained how she perceived what she had done and I explained how it had come across and that perhaps the anger she felt was channeled into her action in a more physically aggressive way than she realized.  She seemed to maybe consider it, but on the surface left things at agreeing we had different perceptions.  She didn't own it or apologize, but then all I really wanted was for her to understand and it seemed to sink in.

The second time, I took ownership of the fact that I could have handled things better and apologized for having used more force than I realized to get to the keys.  I told her I did not intend for her to fall and was sorry she had, but that I was responsible even if that was unintended because I did cause it.  As I said above, I think she realized that she had been pretty out of control and it sunk in that I had been concerned about her safety, not trying to be malicious.

[sabas]

Thanks for the answer, witz_end. It’s very comforting to hear (unfortunately) a similar story and to get your perspective on it. I guess by expectations I mean expectations that she might take some responsibility in her contribution to the violence, or at least some empathy in how I got to that horrible place. People on these boards say not to have any expectations, and I think it’s very true, but in this case it really hurt how she painted me as a monster. It sounds like you and your wife were able to handle it in a fairly healthy manner, that’s great.

Things have gotten much worse since just this morning. Since I hoped for understanding and didn’t get it I tried to fall on my sword, as Radcliff aptly put it. And I was mostly able to but it ate at me. But because  of the fight this morning I attempted to express how even if I’m not saying it or acting like it all  the time (like she’s saying she wants, from my POV) that I am filled with pain and regret most of the day and night.I asked her how she was feeling and she started talking about how it feels exactly like  when her mom and stepdad abused her and she couldn’t talk to anyone about it, saying she can’t talk about what I did because the women tell her to get out and the men would want to kick my ass. This hurt me. I felt like she was completely ignoring her role and painting me as a unpredictable monster.

Perhaps stupidly, I pressed, asking if she gave context (I’m beginning to think I don’t have the maturity or skills to confidently not JADE). This obviously went poorly. She thought I was downplaying the push,,and that I was sounding like an insane abuser. She says she’s unsure what I’m capable of (I’ve never touched her in 6 years, while she has hit or pushed me multiple times). She keeps saying how hard I pushed her and how she was near stairs. I really regret this but it’s so hard to hear her version.

Then, while we are arguing (I’m staying calm and trying not to JADE but also not agreeing with her version in events) she suddenly is saying I pushed her down. This did not happen. In reality she took a step or two back and ran inside. I refuted that she fell. We had talked about it multiple times and this was the first time any falling down was mentioned (and it was in the face of me kind of forcing her to confront her past violence) . It was like watching feelings=facts happen directly in front of my face. It seriously frightened me. And when I tried to clarify, it just got worse, as predicted by RC too. Now I was being painted black. The story is becoming that I shoved her as hard as I could to the ground at the top of a flight of stairs (in reality there were 2 and she didn’t get near them) and now look at me, I’m trying  to justify and lie about it like a sociopath (her words).

I tried to walk away but she did what your wife did and told me to get back here, and then told me to leave, and then told me I actually couldn’t because she had to go to work for half an hour and our son was asleep. I went into our guest room and broke down hard. She came in and asked gruffly “why are you crying?”, I couldn’t get words out, she kept asking, more anger in her force each time. All I managed was “I’m scared”. She hated how I couldn’t converse and threw herself into a rage, berating me that I was an abuser, a psycho, that she couldn’t care less that I’m crying, that it’s disgusting that I’m crying because I’m the psychopath, that I’m only crying because I’m trying to manipulate her, and on and on. She eventually got tired since I just kept crying and left for our restaurant.

From what I saw I’m more scared than I’ve ever been in the relationship, I’m terrified she will keep adding force, violence  and terribleness to my actions that night. I’m scared that if we get divorced she will use it to try to get custody of my son, I’m scared she’ll hate me and fight tooth and nail through any potential separation. I’m mostly just worried about my relationship and ability to parent  my son if she or I want to separate. I’m scared that if I try to present my side any further it will get far worse, which I feel I may have to because we have a counseling appointment next Friday and she will tell the counselor (who does not know about the BPD) her version and I’ll be left to either JADE or have the counselor believe I’m an abusive monster. I’m frightened and unsure how to handle anything going forward. I’ve never really worried about her not agreeing to 50-50 custody until now. I’m also now getting very depressed thinking about what my son might go through when he’s older and  she doesn’t get treatment. Especially if we’re divorced. This is the nadir point (this far) for me in our relationship. I am having a very difficult time seeing a positive path forward.

[Witz_End]

It seems she doubled down when her history was brought into things because she needed to give things more juice to avoid her own past and responsibility.  If you can imagine, somewhere inside herself she knows the truth, which is why she threw a fit when she saw how broken down you were.  That part of her that knows is deathly afraid she's pushing too far and the guilt is all an intensifying feedback loop inside.

My advice with the counselor would be:  Tell the truth.  Tell the story objectively and honestly.  Readily admit how you could have done things differently and show willingness to own your reaction, but DO NOT take responsibility for what is not yours to take responsibility for.

Be balanced.  Be reasonable.  Stay calm.  If she flies off into whatever fiction or fit as you do (which is likely), let her.  You can not control her, but you can control you.

If she perceives things as not going her way, she probably will because it threatens her avoidance of her own responsibility and does so in front of someone else.  She may even storm out of the session or refuse to return.  That is her choice and as she calms down in the future, she may come back to it.

All you can do is offer truth.

Why does the counselor not know about the BPD?  As I understand, it's diagnosed officially, right?  Wouldn't that be an important piece of knowledge for a marriage counselor to understand, especially for cases like this?

[Witz_End]

I just reread that the appointment is next Friday.  The fact there's a whole week adds a bit of advice...

Avoid anything pressing her to look at her responsibility in the meantime.  This doesn't mean take responsibility that is not hers to avoid it.  It may take tricky wording if it's being discussed.

In fact, my thought is it may serve best to back off discussion of it, if possible.  Give her space, gently.  Not in a cold, petulant or pouty way, nor like a silent treatment.  Be around but go about what you need to do as if you have shaken it off... not that you are ignoring it happened, but that you are moving past it.  Not ignoring her and not cold or distant if she talks to you, but don't try to engage a lot or initiate discussions and time together.  Do not appear like you are trying to warm up to her or kiss up to her - that is not the point and can backfire.  And don't stray too far to the distant where she may fear you are quietly considering leaving.  You're steady... you're present... you're recovering and moving back to being a steady rock.  You're just allowing her some space to process.

Seeing the effect on you sparks her internal guilt loop and as long as that guilt loop is going, her reflexive response is to project it out on you.  Notice that the moment you added guilt with her history and then with the visible effect on you, it worsened things?  Like I said, she knows inside and knows she is pushing a bit far, which is sparking fear and feeding the loop.

So, take that away.  Ease off any pushing.  Don't tell her you aren't going anywhere as a result of things - keep your presence to show her while giving her space and let her see you at least appearing to recover and return back toward normal emotionally yourself.  In other words, show her by recovering.

Let her fear she has pushed too far ease... let her guilt/fear loop ease... and she may come down in the week before the appointment.  You never know what can happen in a week.  It may change the course or make the appointment more possibly productive in some way.  The course needs to change and more of the same will not do that.

Discussion right now will not do anything.  You see that.  She needs to come down first.  If she tries to initiate discussion or bait you, stay steady and compassionate, but maybe suggest that it might be good to give things a couple of days to breathe before coming back to discussing it... "I love you.  I want to work through this because you mean so much to me.  Can we breathe for a couple days, maybe?  Because I don't want to lose us and I know this has been hard on both of us."

[sabas]

I think that’s really great advice. Throughout our relationship, and I assume most BPD relationships, it’s taken large demonstrative emotional displays for her to truly understand how she can hurt me sometimes. Calm words never convinced her. A lot of times after a blowup I’d dream of a friend telling her how affected I am, or for her to snoop and discover some search history or something that showed I was thinking of us and her, I always knew that if she could find out how hurt I was through a different avenue than my words that it’d have a much greater effect. I could (hopefully) pick up on a very slight crack in her ferociousness when she saw how uncontrollable my response was. Letting that simmer but staying around like always is probably the best was forward, I appreciate that.

As for the counselor not knowing, I would love that she did. She’s very kind and level-headed through our first two sessions, and she has training in DBT. My wife was diagnosed by a different psychiatrist we both ended up seeing a few years ago. He was smart and kind as well. He broached the subject with compassion, but also said he wouldn’t put it in any records or diagnose it “officially” because of the lack of understanding and stigma around the disorder. So this has given some leeway in my wife’s belief that she has it. And she is very secretive about it. Though she stopped seeing the original diagnoser shortly after BPD came up he is the one who suggested she see this current counselor because of the DBT training, my wife also has PTSD, he left it up to her in terms of what she wanted to tell this counselor. She quickly stopped seeing her individually a year or more ago, but decided we should go back together because of my mother being awful to both of us because she doesn’t think my wife is good for me (this letdown and experience is possibly the trigger for my wife’s recent uptick in criticizing, arguing and fighting).. I was thrilled she suggested counseling of any kind, and I hope in time, if we continue seeing the counselor, that it can be discussed and treated for the first time ever.

[sabas]

I also agree with your take on what to say to the counselor. I don’t think sitting back and not telling my story so that my wife can feel better about herself is possible for me, nor healthy in the relationship with our counselor if we want to make any true progress down the line.

[Radcliff]

Witz_End is giving you solid advice all around.  I am concerned about her lack of empathy for you when you are vulnerable like when you are crying.  I am also very concerned about her distortion of the events when things got physical. Many of our pwBPD have issues around empathy and reality distortion, but when they are combined with a willingness to be physically violent, it can be particularly risky for the member.  I'm not saying the sky is falling.  You've had one incident.  But remember that your risk is high.  Do not allow yourself to become isolated.  Take care of yourself.  Be intentional about managing your and your son's lives, and be intentional about your relationship decisions; do not lapse into just getting by and functioning on autopilot.

What do you observe in her interactions with your son?  Are there things that concern you there, or is she doing OK on that front?

RC

[sabas]

I agree, I've been a little more keyed up than usual after her seeing just how distorted she could make things. I've never seen her do that, and it was frankly scary to see. It has always bothered me how un-empathetic she can be in the moment, of course it's usually because she's hurting/scared herself but there's such a difference in how I react to her crying and sadness than she does to mine. I'm very frustrated by that and part of the reason I've been distancing myself more recently.

In terms of my son, she's very good. I've been wondering more and more about their relationship, but for now she's a good mother. I do get worried what would happen if when he's older and able to talk and not giving her what she expects if she will begin to manipulate him or make him feel bad. There was a time period where he definitely preferred looking at and interacting with me (as an infant might for a phase, it obviously meant nothing) and she had difficulty with that, never freaking over it, but if he was a teenager and yelled at her or turned on her for a period of time I'd be concerned about what she would do or say. For now, she's been pretty great with him though. But I do feel like he's another reason why sometime in the near future i need to talk calmly about BPD with her. My most pressing worry right now though is what she would do if I actually decided we needed a divorce. I'm worried that she would either try and leave the city or state and fight me for custody (when we've talked calmly about it she's always said she would never want anything other than 50% custody, but when she's splitting or pissed that goes totally out of the window). I can't imagine not living in the same city as my son, and i'm pretty tied to the one I live in now. My wife is too, but if she paints me black she won't really care about the rational reasons for her to stay here.

[Radcliff]

OK, that's good that you feel confident in her ability to be a good mother.  If you ended up divorcing, you could go for a balanced custody arrangement with a clear conscience, and balanced arrangements are the best approach for the child and to minimize conflict.  Divorcing someone with BPD can be difficult, but that's not a reason to avoid it if it's the best path (don't stay out of fear).  That said, don't leave out of fear either.  Giving it our all, with support and learning coping tools, gives us the best shot at a successful outcome.

Can you tell us more about what you mean by "distancing myself lately?"

RC

[sabas]

I think by distancing myself, I mean disconnecting from only thinking and pleasing her and suppressing my own immediate wants, and reconnecting with doing what my body and mind wish to do.

In practice I mean if she's getting upset about something I'm less interested and tied to her reaction/solving the problem as I was before. It also means not being so reactive if she wants something from me, even if ostensibly in her eyes it's a positive thing. Like if she wants me to make a move on her in bed or just be affectionate in general, usually I would do those things even if I was tired, but now I'll just go to sleep. If she wants me to be over the top nice to "get over" a fight, I've become literally incapable of caring like I used to be when I just wanted to make her happy and be happy with me.

This has opened me up to her accusing me of "not caring" and "not understanding me" and my being "emotionless", those accusations I'm not sure how to handle other than continuing to not allow them to rile me up. And i'm not entirely sure that apathy towards her huge emotional swings, and entitlement to me fixing them, is necessarily good?

[Radcliff]

And i'm not entirely sure that apathy towards her huge emotional swings, and entitlement to me fixing them, is necessarily good?

Your intuition is correct.  We definitely need to stop hopping everytime our pwBPD demands something.  We need to have boundaries and leave when we're overwhelmed.  But we need to stay engaged.  A funny thing happened to me when I realized I had the option to leave the room if I needed to, realized there were unmet emotional needs behind her unreasonable demands, and realized how to validate her emotions while remembering that her distortions weren't reasonable.  I found a new reserve of patience and was often able to stay, and give her my dedicated attention.  It was exhausting at times, but turned a few situations around.  As we get the hang of things, we can feel less threatened and can give back to our partners from a position of strength.  Does that make sense?  It's not going to work in every case, but if we all try it, some of us will meet with success.

RC

[sabas]

It does make sense, and your story gives me some hope. I think for so long I kept the peace for her but also for myself. In the immediate it was easier than expressing myself, sticking to my guns and setting boundaries. In that way I’ve set a dangerous precedent that I need to end. I need to disassociate being a good husband with trying to fulfill her every need and indulging every demand and complaint. Thinking about it is easy, and my resolve is high after a fight but then it comes time to do it and it’s happening in front of me it’s really difficult to break those habits and not to get caught up in her distortions.

My psychiatrist believes I need to bring up the violent incident at our marriage counseling tomorrow. I agree, but I’m very fearful, when I shouldn’t be. I’m scared of what my wife will do when I stick to my experience. I actually brought it up again last week and she ended up saying I pushed her down (this absolutely did not happen and she never said anything about it until I had said I had thought she meant to hit me and that she’s hit me in the past so can she please understand a little bit, instead of painting me black and a monster). It honestly creeped me out. I got a creepy feeling in my spine and tried  to walk away. She chased me and said awful things. I ended up breaking down. I was terrified of what could happen long term, to us and our son. She berated me while i sobbed. Anyway, we’ve since ignored it and she’s back to liking me. But I need to address it. I’m worried she’s going to flip all over again when I explain myself to the counselor. I should value my truth and feelings more than fixing hers and keeping her docile but it’s very difficult and unnatural now.

[Radcliff]

It's so much easier in the near term to just do whatever it takes to calm our partners down instead of doing what might be healthier.  It's compounded by the fact that doing it the "healthy" way takes skills we might not have had, and we may have to get through some fireworks in order to do it.  The good thing is that if we work gradually at implementing the tools we get better at it and often find that doing things the healthy way once we get the hang of it is reducing conflict.

For discussing the incident in MC, probably the hardest part will be not allowing her version of events to make you feel invalidated and scared such that you start to become overwhelmed and ineffective.  Anticipate that.  Don't worry about having to convince the counselor.  Let them do their job.  The discussion might fail.  That's OK.  The counselor has their part, your wife has her part, and you have yours.  They are going to do what they are going to do.  Just worry about your part; you can control that.  Follow the counselor's lead, and when invited, tell your perspective.  Don't argue with your wife.  Think about the language you will use.  "She hit me" is technically accurate but "I saw her hand rise towards my face and felt a sharp pain as the cigarette dropped to the ground" focuses on narrowly your experience, which makes it harder to argue with and may make it less threatening to her.  Finally, make a distinction between your success and the session's success.  You are successful if you remain as relaxed as possible and are ready to participate as circumstances allow.  The session could have some success in several ways, but it may fail.  You can succeed even if the session fails.  Knowing that may help you to stay calm and increase the chances of the session succeeding.

RC

[sabas]

Hey RC, I continue to appreciate your advice. I had the MC today, and I tried to take the advice of both you and my T. I feel like I executed what I wanted to, I was clear about what I believed happened, and why I was nervous to discuss it with my wife and in the appointment. But I do feel invalidated. My wife is high-functioning and though she did exhibit signs I think someone familiar with BPD would pick up on, I’m not sure the MC did. My wife said that if I “touched her again she would kill me” and that she didn’t care anymore, that she’s ready to be divorced, that I should have apologized to her sooner after it happened and that was on me. But for the most part, though kind of despondent, she was civil and came off as very hurt but not necessarily a pwBPD to an untrained eye. The session became somewhat focused on my inability to communicate and my need to “date my wife” because my wife thinks I put no effort into the relationship (or at least do the things she asks for) and that we don’t have enough fun. She said she’s tired of dragging me along and that I never take the initiative. I felt like I couldn’t say that, while I do take the initiative sometimes (definitely not as much as she does), this feeling of exhaustion and lack of life she’s picked up on is  because she’s worn me down with criticism, fights, invalidation and emotional neediness.

I felt like the MC started to see it as mostly a he said-she said and that “dating my wife” is the first step. Never mind we truly may not have enough money to pay rent, I work weekdays, she works weekends and our son goes to bed at 6:30. Anyway, this feels like such a red herring (to me, I could be totally wrong), and still the focus has become me, because of my admission of depression and resolution to solve it. No indication the MC thought my wife had anything to work on. Even as my wife actually brought up how prior to the violence I had said I think she has BPD, so the MC was at least aware that I think that. In the car ride home my wife basically said she doesn’t care what happens, she doesn’t feel happy but she’ll stay because of our finances and hope that when we sell our house and business improves I’ll be “happier” because all I care about is money. Again, me becoming happy from within is the key to all of this.

I think I’m depressed (or suppressed)  because of my lack of skills and actions to deal with BPD. And i know my wife has hardly ever addressed or tried to make some recovery from PTSD or BPD. But now, again, I have all the “work” to do while my wife waits. going about her life as usual.

I know I shouldn’t get too up or down based on the session, and that the MC may be thinking something that I am not picking up on. But leaving and having the one action item be spend more time together, and for me to plan that time, is selfishly really disheartening.

 And I still want badly to talk about the BPD, but I feel like it will just seem like excuse making and deflection and she won’t absorb any of it. Understandably she’ll see it as me taking all the responsibility to change and putting it all into her.

[Radcliff]

And I still want badly to talk about the BPD, but I feel like it will just seem like excuse making and deflection and she won’t absorb any of it. Understandably she’ll see it as me taking all the responsibility to change and putting it all into her.

Agreed.  Unfortunately, talking about the BPD almost invariably doesn't work.

Sorry to hear that the MC session was so disheartening.  The MC has a tough balance to strike -- maintaining the trust of two opposing people.  If the MC pushes her too hard, she may quit.  The MC may have a solid plan, or may be missing the real issues -- it's hard to tell from this distance.

The fact that your wife is a high-functioning pwBPD makes this an extra tough situation to improve.  High-functioning folks have been getting by for a long time, are likely very intelligent, and seem to me to be less likely than low-functioning folks to realize they need help.

Keep working on your ability to let her BPD statements roll off your back.  She's not going to be able to give you the kind of positive feedback that we'd normally want and need to figure out what makes our partner happy.  Do you have any ideas about things you could do that would gain a little traction with her, make her feel a connection with you?

Regarding you getting better, I totally get how discouraging it is for it to feel like the MC and your wife just dumped all the work on you, and now you've got homework.  Try to let that feeling go and become determined to do -- for yourself, not for them -- whatever it takes to take care of yourself and get your moods in a better place.  Ironically, you might get to have your cake and eat it, too.  We often have a hard time valuing ourselves in these situations where we continually fail to please our partner.  When we realize the obligation to take care of ourselves, and the fact that we need to own our happiness, we quickly become more attractive to people -- hopefully including our spouses!  I hope I'm making sense.  The empowerment here comes from making your happiness be for you and also not dependent on others.

RC

[sabas]

You’re making a lot of sense. I agree I have to get better at not torturing myself with thoughts of “fairness” in the face of her BPD symptoms and treatment of me, and get better at tensing calm and cognizant of what how the BPD is influencing her. And you’re so right: I need to focus on what I can control, my happiness. It will  benefit my inner self but also, hopefully, my attractiveness to her, and maybe, to everyone else. Being wrapped up in someone else’s emotions to the extent we here can be leaves one feeling like a bit of a shell of a person, and that’s certainly less attractive than an independent, happy person with conviction in their perception, morals and boundaries.

It’s difficult for me to tell with the MC as well. I’m going to continue going as long as my wife will, so hopefully i find out. One thing that concerned me was at one point, after my wife had brought up my depression and how little she cared about our relationship and how I said I was going to fix myself, the MC suggested I could see the MC alone. I don’t know exactly why she did this, part of me hopes it was because she could see I needed help dealing with my wife, but I’m worried it’s actually because she thinks the major problem is my depression (that I’m certain is at least partially caused by my marriage). Perhaps I’m just obsessing and paranoid, the only way to find out what the MC has planned is to attend and see.

The high-functioning part is insidious, you’re right. She’s extremely intelligent and capable of essentially subconscious manipulation that has effed my head up. She wins every argument, and makes her distortions sound truly reasonable. She has made me feel un-perceptive and emotionally oblivious, she’s made me feel like a bad person, she’s made me feel like I’m the one who distorts the world as it is.

 To acquaintances and coworkers and associates she comes off incredibly well, and then wonders why they’re “more excited” to see her than I am (not true, but she also doesn’t put any emotional expectations or baggage on them). In the MC session she remained mostly calm, when had we Bern alone and I was saying the same things as in the session,  we’d have made it a fraction of the way through the conversation before I was being yelled at and convinced I was insane. In this way, I can definitely see how the MC may not pick up on the BPD. She doesn’t keep many long-term friendships, nor employment positions (though she’s great at getting jobs), but she’s so effective in the “practical” parts of life that she doesn’t typically have to confront any downsides of the BPD, other than with me, and I usually rollover and indulge or excuse them. I sometimes wish she had less control over it so the fact that something is wrong would be much less deniable.

[Radcliff]

Follow the MC's lead.  If they suggested meeting alone, then do it.  Don't look to establish a permanent one-on-one channel, though.  Your wife will be supervigilant for any shifts in you or the MC after your one-on-one meeting.  If you have a single one-on-one and things return to normal in couples MC, that'd be a big success.  To make it simple, though, follow the MC's lead.

What are some concrete steps you can take to take care of yourself and get to a better place?

RC