Do BPD's project things they're guilty for?

[secretgirl]

So... lately, in my head, I've been wondering if pwbpd react similarly to non's in the way that they project things/accuse you of things THEY'RE guilty of?

Makes me wonder sometimes all the times my ubpdexbf accused me of cheating/checking out guys/sleeping with guys during our "ST breaks"... was this all stuff HE IS doing/has done?

I know a huge red flag for non's is the deflection when you bring an uneasy feeling up... and then they get angry and sort of change the focus off of them... but what about with pwbpd?

Are they all cheaters? Does them accusing you randomly all the time with NO facts/proof mean they're doing it themselves? or is it just deep insecurity?

Hmmm... thoughts?

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[once removed]

my first rule of projection is: projection is not the same thing as hypocrisy.

if one person says "youre not listening to me", and the other says it back, it isnt necessarily a matter of projection, its two people not feeling heard.

pathologically insecure and jealous people have a range when it comes to coping. projection can be a part of it. "if youre acting this way, why shouldnt i".

if youre pathologically insecure or jealous, having a backup might soothe those feelings.

just as simply, if youre pathologically insecure and or jealous, you feel down about yourself in relationships, and you fear that your partner will find someone better and leave you. and that tends to come out a lot.

secretgirl, your boyfriend has been insecure about your job (at the time) for most of your relationship.

on one hand, he knew about it beforehand, and he downplayed it. but since then, his insecurity with it has manifested, and persisted. i think a lot of men would struggle with it; men arent really less secure than women, often times even more so.

persistent jealousy can be a very difficult thing to live with in a relationship. i know it was for me.

do you think this is something the two of you can resolve?

[secretgirl]

my first rule of projection is: projection is not the same thing as hypocrisy.

if one person says "youre not listening to me", and the other says it back, it isnt necessarily a matter of projection, its two people not feeling heard.

pathologically insecure and jealous people have a range when it comes to coping. projection can be a part of it. "if youre acting this way, why shouldnt i".

if youre pathologically insecure or jealous, having a backup might soothe those feelings.

just as simply, if youre pathologically insecure and or jealous, you feel down about yourself in relationships, and you fear that your partner will find someone better and leave you. and that tends to come out a lot.

secretgirl, your boyfriend has been insecure about your job (at the time) for most of your relationship.

on one hand, he knew about it beforehand, and he downplayed it. but since then, his insecurity with it has manifested, and persisted. i think a lot of men would struggle with it; men arent really less secure than women, often times even more so.

persistent jealousy can be a very difficult thing to live with in a relationship. i know it was for me.

do you think this is something the two of you can resolve?

Hey OR... so I'm trying to understand then the difference between jealousy rooted FROM my past job... and the projection of cheating... because he always says weird things that flag me... and don't get me wrong, I totally and completely understand the jealousy rooted from my job.. and how that affects him and it's definitely something I would want to cope with/help him with... but where's the fine line?

Like how much of it is jealousy? and how much is projection?

Like here are some examples he's said before:

"God knows what you did on our breaks.. I can only imagine.."

"I know you're wanting another guy why are you lying?"

"I can never be alone" (this was in response to me teling him one time that I'm usually single... and I have been for a while before I met him and would be for a while if we broke up and he admitted to me that in contrast to me, he hates being alone..).

He also met girls from my work previously who he hungout with... he said he blocked their numbers BUT didn't tell me that he told them that he had a gf now ... which seems ODD to me... considering that when it comes to men he's wanted me to stop talking to, if I don't tell them I'm with him, he gets all piss*y.

Not mad or anything just asking these questions out of pure curiosity...

Honestly, this week, I've reached a good point OR. I feel happy. Like more content with myself and less codependent If he DOES message me, I'll post on here and ask for advice. But other than that, just my mind wanders sometimes and wants to know answers to the unknown. hehe

[once removed]

Like how much of it is jealousy? and how much is projection?

how can you know?

isnt the question really: "is there trust in this relationship"

it doesnt sound like it.

how much of it is you? how much of it is him?

[secretgirl]

how can you know?

isnt the question really: "is there trust in this relationship"

it doesnt sound like it.

how much of it is you? how much of it is him?

Hmm my r/s aside . Lol just used those as examples .
So I guess I’m more so asking objectively speaking out of curiosity.

[ColdKnight]

That is something I have wondered about as well. I have heard that when someone is suspicious of you cheating it means they are doing it. I don’t know if that is true or not but that is a form of projection BPD or not.

The last night she was here she said she felt like another woman had been in my bed. It was not true and I didn’t even acknowledge the comment. Maybe I should have tried to reassure her?

Or was she projecting her cheating on to me? Was she looking to start a fight to push me away? I don’t know

[once removed]

But other than that, just my mind wanders sometimes and wants to know answers to the unknown

i can appreciate that.

there are only so many ways you can generalize accurately when it comes to bpd, or bpd traits. for the most part, they revolve around the diagnostic criteria.

most of them are impulsive. most of them are prone to exaggerating (idealizing or devaluing), within intimate relationships. most of them (diagnosed) have an eating disorder, and/or a history of suicide attempts or cutting. there is a higher than average fear of abandonment and engulfment...and a life built around avoiding both fears.

for the most part, thats about all you can say. there are tens of millions of people with diagnosable bpd, and millions more with traits. its a bit like asking a very general question about people with ocd, or adhd.

Are they all cheaters?

of course not. my ex was. lots of peoples partners and exes on this board are. i suspect if you posted the same question on a support group for loved ones with someone with ocd, or adhd, or football lovers, or gamers, you would get lots of answers that might suggest theres a preponderance of evidence that any of the above are more likely to cheat.

it would be misleading.

Makes me wonder sometimes all the times my ubpdexbf accused me of cheating/checking out guys/sleeping with guys during our "ST breaks"... was this all stuff HE IS doing/has done?

it makes a lot of sense to better understand the disorder; people with bpd traits make for notoriously challenging partners. but getting caught up in a lot of whats on the internet, and personal experiences, can obscure whats really going on in our relationship.

"God knows what you did on our breaks.. I can only imagine.."

"I know you're wanting another guy why are you lying?"

"I can never be alone" (this was in response to me teling him one time that I'm usually single... and I have been for a while before I met him and would be for a while if we broke up and he admitted to me that in contrast to me, he hates being alone..).

He also met girls from my work previously who he hungout with... he said he blocked their numbers BUT didn't tell me that he told them that he had a gf now ... which seems ODD to me... considering that when it comes to men he's wanted me to stop talking to, if I don't tell them I'm with him, he gets all piss*y.

i dont think these are necessarily statements that suggest "i think youre cheating so im going to cheat".

i think the picture is bigger as it applies to your relationship. and some of it may have to do with bpd.

the two of you are in a pattern where you break up every couple of days and then dont speak for several more. its not a secure or stable relationship. that does create a higher than average likelihood of someone going outside the relationship. it creates a standard of "well we arent together so its okay".

the two of you are arguing about double standards and fairness. you arent on the same page when it comes to the inderdependent values of your relationship. this creates a higher than average likelihood that someone (or both parties) will feel violated by the actions of the other.

and i also think its established that hes a fairly insecure guy (bpd related). people that feel insecure in their relationship are more likely to look for external validation (which can mean lots of things).

Like how much of it is jealousy? and how much is projection?

i want to reiterate that hypocrisy, or an expression of fears, is not necessarily the same thing as projection.

but where either exist, so can projection.

if youre my partner, and my greatest fear is that you will cheat on me, and i read every action you make as you cheating on me, and i imagine it, and i project what was going on in your mind, and i accuse you of it, that is projection.

it doesnt, inherently, make me more likely to cheat. but if im an inherently insecure person, if i read our relationship as insecure and unstable, if there arent clear boundaries between us when it comes to whats in and out of bounds, and i happen to be looking for external validation, it might.

does that help?

[secretgirl]

Hey OR thanks for the more thorough response, I appreciate it.

I think it does make more sense just knowing that they cheat Just as much as others with any other illness or even non's. It was more a question I had out of curiosity or more statistically speaking I guess because I keep reading people slander pwbpd's being cheaters... I mean, I never had proof of mine doing it. and when I don't have proof, I don't accuse... the only red flag with my ex was that he always accused yet I NEVER did... because he didn't do anything to make me feel he was cheating... I only had FEELINGS of mistrust once.. which I tried expressing in a healthy way but then got met with anger and turned into a fight about me not trusting him. (which actually wasn't the case at all.. but I can see how he would think that--my T said that it was probably projection in this case since he knows deep down he's always the one accusing me ).
It's moreso HIS action that made me a bit paranoid if that makes sense... more of HIS trying to control me/put rules on what I can and can't wear, who I can and can't text , etc etc.


"i dont think these are necessarily statements that suggest "i think youre cheating so im going to cheat". "
I can definitely agree with this because I sure as hell would not go into that mindset. Of course when ANYONE is angered or threatened that is a thought or temptation... but as most of us with impulse control, would never actually act it out. For me, personally, I just can't because I'm an emotional being. I wouldn't even feel right doing it. I would probably cry into someone's mouth trying to kiss them lmao
I guess my question was more so how much more likely someone with this LACK of impulse control be to cheat?

"the two of you are in a pattern where you break up every couple of days and then dont speak for several more. its not a secure or stable relationship. that does create a higher than average likelihood of someone going outside the relationship. it creates a standard of "well we arent together so its okay".

the two of you are arguing about double standards and fairness. you arent on the same page when it comes to the inderdependent values of your relationship. this creates a higher than average likelihood that someone (or both parties) will feel violated by the actions of the other.

and i also think its established that hes a fairly insecure guy (bpd related). people that feel insecure in their relationship are more likely to look for external validation (which can mean lots of things).
yes. I agree with this... he did tell me though that the only thing that would end our r/s was if I cheated... but I never did... so I'm wondering if him trying to accuse me is a way of painting me black ? but that's a whole other question here... I only trust what I see (as in proof). I would never be able to prove anyone cheating regardless unless I FOUND evidence of it and I'm not one to snoop into people's phones etc. Generally I would just wait until it's reared it's own ugly head somehow... or go with my gut feeling on feelings... because when you get to know someone ... you notice changes... but , as I learned in class one day, trusting your "gut" isn't always a good thing because sometimes it is dependent on each and every one of our own fears and insecurities and where does that lead us? A similar behavior as a pwbpd. So generally I try not to feed into these feelings unless there's concrete proof I can rely on.
But with the insecurity and interdependent problems, I can see why someone would have a higher likelihood of infidelity.  

i want to reiterate that hypocrisy, or an expression of fears, is not necessarily the same thing as projection.

but where either exist, so can projection.

if youre my partner, and my greatest fear is that you will cheat on me, and i read every action you make as you cheating on me, and i imagine it, and i project what was going on in your mind, and i accuse you of it, that is projection.

it doesnt, inherently, make me more likely to cheat. but if im an inherently insecure person, if i read our relationship as insecure and unstable, if there arent clear boundaries between us when it comes to whats in and out of bounds, and i happen to be looking for external validation, it might.

does that help?


This Definitely helps explain it a bit more, thank you for putting it into different words... makes 100% sense. I guess I just never was sure that there were "unclear' boundaries because I always respected his wishes on things to do with fidelity... it's just the more and more time flew by, the more and more caged he made me, and the more and more he would accuse me... it's almost like this idea of me cheating got SOO far into his head that now I'm his trigger... my looks, my past, everything about me...
I stopped talking to guys ... I rarely even talked to my guy friends anymore because I promised him I would limit contact, I always told him if someone contacted me, I changed how I dressed because he told me wearing sexier outfits (low cut tops/crop tops) made me "look bad." I ended up wearing t shirts all day, every day unless we went out on a date (this was an agreement we had).

But it's clear now.. that even wearing something sexy on our perfect date night last Friday, triggered him... because I bet if I was wearing sneakers and a t shirt, he wouldn't have accused me of the things he did accuse me of. So I guess, in a sense, I've become his trigger. How unfortunate. I've realized this today, talking to CK. And I guess it's the sort of thing where I've realized I can't change anymore than I already have (short of locking myself up in his home and getting rid of my phone priveleges). So I guess it's on him. Even if I apologized (which I don't think this particular scenario merits), how would that effect his trust in me?

[once removed]

I guess my question was more so how much more likely someone with this LACK of impulse control be to cheat?

statistically speaking, more likely.

but if the two of you are breaking up every other day, and not speaking for a week or so, is it cheating? would he consider it cheating? would you?

see what i mean?

[secretgirl]

statistically speaking, more likely.

but if the two of you are breaking up every other day, and not speaking for a week or so, is it cheating? would he consider it cheating? would you?

see what i mean?

Totally get what you mean but for me a ST doesn’t really count as a breakup. It’s like a fight with no closure ... but I guess in their minds it could be seen that way?

I have told him many times that I don’t do anything during the times that we don’t talk , just mope around and cry. He’s seen me cry a lot and told me he believes how sad I get but that’s when he’s idealizing me so I guess when the mistrust kicks in for him, he pictures me doing all sorts of things , where in reality , I’m sitting at home studying , waiting for him to text me ... I’m not the one who initiates ST... if anything I try and force the convo to continue . It’s generally him that shuts me out. *shrugs*

[once removed]

for me a ST doesn’t really count as a breakup. It’s like a fight with no closure ... but I guess in their minds it could be seen that way?

isnt this about his mind and yours. your relationship? not about "they"?

youve threatened a breakup lots of times. you did it the last time. weve talked about how destructive this is for a relationship.

if someone told you (more or less) "fine then im done", and you didnt speak, a week later, if you were to hookup with someone, would you consider it cheating? would he?

there arent clearly defined rules in your relationship except that all bets are off.

[secretgirl]

isnt this about his mind and yours. your relationship? not about "they"?

youve threatened a breakup lots of times. you did it the last time. weve talked about how destructive this is for a relationship.

if someone told you (more or less) "fine then im done", and you didnt speak, a week later, if you were to hookup with someone, would you consider it cheating? would he?

there arent clearly defined rules in your relationship except that all bets are off.

Hi OR I like how you challenge me sometimes haha
Okay to answer your question I agree that saying that I’m done is destructive but it was usually following his resistance in change ... like for example this last time I kept asking him if he’s willing to work through this and he kept insisting his stuff .. and then eventually I got frustrated being pegged as a liar and gave him the option of either working through this because I love him or pegging me as a liar and ending it ... usually it ends in my frustration of circling and arguing the same things over and over I keep trying to work through it but I keep being met with anger and accusations ... how do you stop this ? Just me go quiet ? I generally never go quiet it’s him that ends up ignoring me or blocking me. I try and work through it ... he promised me too that after every argument he wouldn’t ignore me and I can tell he tried once but then resorted back to his ST...

I’m not sure if he would consider it cheating but I guess until I have full on closure ... I wouldn’t cheat. But even for a while afterwards until I get over my feelings I can’t sleep with someone else ... but that’s me. Not sure what he would do

[secretgirl]

At least in this particular instance he wouldn’t listen to my attempts at working it out .. his main goal was to try and get me to “own up” to his lies and if I didn’t then he was done with me.
So I was backed into a corner with that one

[once removed]

I generally never go quiet it’s him that ends up ignoring me or blocking me. I try and work through it ... he promised me too that after every argument he wouldn’t ignore me and I can tell he tried once but then resorted back to his ST...

ill put it this way:

when it happens, you go to the Detaching board or Conflicted board and seek external validation. curse the relationship.

is it much of a stretch that he would do something similar?

I’m not sure if he would consider it cheating but I guess until I have full on closure ... I wouldn’t cheat. But even for a while afterwards until I get over my feelings I can’t sleep with someone else ... but that’s me. Not sure what he would do

i think thats fundamental.

the last exchange between the two of you was a breakup.

most people would read this as a green light. maybe theyd act on it, and maybe they wouldnt. i didnt date or sleep with anyone after my relationship ended. but i flirted as much as i felt like.

secretgirl, im just not sure this is about silent treatment, or about cheating.

its about two people that thus far solve conflict by separating from each other, and multiple times. you assume it might really be done this time. he probably does too.

[secretgirl]

ill put it this way:

when it happens, you go to the Detaching board or Conflicted board and seek external validation. curse the relationship.

is it much of a stretch that he would do something similar?

i think thats fundamental.

the last exchange between the two of you was a breakup.

most people would read this as a green light. maybe theyd act on it, and maybe they wouldnt. i didnt date or sleep with anyone after my relationship ended. but i flirted as much as i felt like.

secretgirl, im just not sure this is about silent treatment, or about cheating.

its about two people that thus far solve conflict by separating from each other, and multiple times. you assume it might really be done this time. he probably does too.

I agree . He would do the same im sure except (assumption )  to a larger extent Especially being aware of his accusations .

It’s not a stretch to think it’s over this time. I actually think it’s over hence why I call him my ex . But that’s also my choice to choose not to message him this time. I don’t agree with what he said and accused me of . I had diffused two other potential arguments all weekend just being accused over and over but then he managed to find something further out to push me away with.
Maybe it was a test to make me beg and I failed ? Who knows but all I can do is offer working on the r/s and if he doesn’t agree and keeps accusing me I can’t do much. I did end it saying if he wants to work on it, I’m here . The option is there on his end. It wasn’t really me ending it it was more of an ultimatum. And I agree, probably not much better but in a sense I guess I’ve reached my limit.

Which is why I’m fine either way if he messages me or not. It’s almost more of wondering how I would approach this IF he did initiate contact... that’s why in my other thread I had asked if asking  something along the lines of “what will you do to try and help the r/s succeed?”
 is a question that would trigger him or not. I have recently done everything I can . I work on myself in therapy, I try and understand bpd more, I try to be more sympathetic , I tried not giving ultimatums  from multiple arguments before this last one but I guess I’ve reached my point of enough is enough.