Invisible

[Depression = 72% of members]

My uBPD mother and her husband have just left, following a week long visit.  They are both narcissists. I'm exhausted! My husband and I have built a life away from these 2 people.  We live several states away and have been able to maintain a safe distance for 37 years, as we raised 3 amazing sons and have enjoyed a beautiful marriage. Chaos only arises when these 2 people visit.  After a huge rage session about 5 years ago, I went NC with my mother for 3 years.  It was the most peaceful few years in my nuclear family. I worked on myself and really tried to understand how enmeshed and co-dependent I become at the hands of my mother.  She got her toe back in the door 2 years ago, as my oldest son (her favorite) got married.  He was so worried about her drama, that he ended up eloping.  Now there is a new grandchild/great grandchild and suddenly my mother and her husband have decided to relocate.  The baby lives 2 1/2 hrs from me.  Knowing the caos she would bring to my sons life, I had encouraged her to avoid building a home around a young man who is upwardly mobile and likely to move for his career.  When she had asked, I offered no comment about her living near me then.  Ihad hoped it would all just blow over. The logistics of a new build, health care, relocating several states away, etc are huge, so I got through the week believing everything would just work itself out and I wouldn't have to hurt her by being honest about my panic of having them live near.  When my mother and I are together, I become ever the little girl, hoping I will somehow get the mother which others have.  I become enmeshed and co dependent. I have always been "the good girl" because I try to stay out of the way. My brother maintains vlc.  I have learned to be "invisible" and keep a low profile.  In my 3 years of NC, I realized we teach people how to treat us,so during their visit, I was more tuned into her antics.  She puts herself between me and my husband, pits my children against each other (as she did with my brother and I) and generally works to alienate me from everyone. Currently she is trying to "win" the high spot with the new daughter-in-law because she is jealous that I have had a pretty healthy relationship with her.   She is working to gain the upper hand with the baby. She is jealous that my son sends me photos of the baby and doesn't include her. Then the guilt starts.  Most of the time, my nuclear family can't even define why we feel exhausted and angry at each other, after one of their visits. But this week we have been able to see some of the ways she is sowing her discord again.  Everything becomes a competition.  If I mentioned I was  buying something for the baby, she purchased it and presented it first. It had been the same through my child's lives.  She smiles and turns on the charm to collect information, then gossips and sows seeds of discord, as she stands back to watch the fireworks, pretending to be surprised at the results of the explosions.  There can only be one top dog in her world!  When I am around and engaged in a conversation with more than just my mother and myself, I am continuously talked over, discounted and interrupted.  Most of my thoughts lie fractured and hanging in the air as partial comments, she never notices. There is constant criticism, but it is presented with a smile. I recently completed a documentary with CNN.  Our middle son had nearly died, there were plenty of emotions to relive as I saw his story play out on the screen.  He was featured in a documentary about the rare illness he had contracted.  All my mother could say while sharing the documentary was that the camera added 25 pounds to me. I'm easily confused as I try to find the mirror of support, comfort and safety that a mother "should" offer.  I continuously feel "less than" in every aspect of my life.   It was during one of my fractured conversations that I entered the word "invisible" into the note section of my phone.  She hadn't even noticed that I had quit speaking halfway through a sentence.  I later showed my husband the single word.  It had been my feeble attempt to be "heard" as I was once again disregarded as even being in the room.  His eyes filled with tears of empathy as we discussed my acceptance and understanding of what it means to stand in the narcissists shadow.  I keep trying to change her, to heal her, to fix her.  You think at 56 years old, I might learn.  It looks like it is unlikely I will stop my mother and husband from moving.  At this point I am trying to protect my own family. I have about 9 months.  I am feeling like I need support.  I don't know whether to go back into counseling.  I know I need better tools to cope. Any feedback is appreciated.

[Legacymaker]

My uBPD mother and her husband have just left, following a week long visit.  They are both narcissists. I'm exhausted! My husband and I have built a life away from these 2 people.  We live several states away and have been able to maintain a safe distance for 37 years, as we raised 3 amazing sons and have enjoyed a beautiful marriage. Chaos only arises when these 2 people visit.  After a huge rage session about 5 years ago, I went NC with my mother for 3 years.  It was the most peaceful few years in my nuclear family. I worked on myself and really tried to understand how enmeshed and co-dependent I become at the hands of my mother.  She got her toe back in the door 2 years ago, as my oldest son (her favorite) got married.  He was so worried about her drama, that he ended up eloping.  Now there is a new grandchild/great grandchild and suddenly my mother and her husband have decided to relocate.  The baby lives 2 1/2 hrs from me.  Knowing the caos she would bring to my sons life, I had encouraged her to avoid building a home around a young man who is upwardly mobile and likely to move for his career.  When she had asked, I offered no comment about her living near me then.  Ihad hoped it would all just blow over. The logistics of a new build, health care, relocating several states away, etc are huge, so I got through the week believing everything would just work itself out and I wouldn't have to hurt her by being honest about my panic of having them live near.  When my mother and I are together, I become ever the little girl, hoping I will somehow get the mother which others have.  I become enmeshed and co dependent. I have always been "the good girl" because I try to stay out of the way. My brother maintains vlc.  I have learned to be "invisible" and keep a low profile.  In my 3 years of NC, I realized we teach people how to treat us,so during their visit, I was more tuned into her antics.  She puts herself between me and my husband, pits my children against each other (as she did with my brother and I) and generally works to alienate me from everyone. Currently she is trying to "win" the high spot with the new daughter-in-law because she is jealous that I have had a pretty healthy relationship with her.   She is working to gain the upper hand with the baby. She is jealous that my son sends me photos of the baby and doesn't include her. Then the guilt starts.  Most of the time, my nuclear family can't even define why we feel exhausted and angry at each other, after one of their visits. But this week we have been able to see some of the ways she is sowing her discord again.  Everything becomes a competition.  If I mentioned I was  buying something for the baby, she purchased it and presented it first. It had been the same through my child's lives.  She smiles and turns on the charm to collect information, then gossips and sows seeds of discord, as she stands back to watch the fireworks, pretending to be surprised at the results of the explosions.  There can only be one top dog in her world!  When I am around and engaged in a conversation with more than just my mother and myself, I am continuously talked over, discounted and interrupted.  Most of my thoughts lie fractured and hanging in the air as partial comments, she never notices. There is constant criticism, but it is presented with a smile. I recently completed a documentary with CNN.  Our middle son had nearly died, there were plenty of emotions to relive as I saw his story play out on the screen.  He was featured in a documentary about the rare illness he had contracted.  All my mother could say while sharing the documentary was that the camera added 25 pounds to me. I'm easily confused as I try to find the mirror of support, comfort and safety that a mother "should" offer.  I continuously feel "less than" in every aspect of my life.   It was during one of my fractured conversations that I entered the word "invisible" into the note section of my phone.  She hadn't even noticed that I had quit speaking halfway through a sentence.  I later showed my husband the single word.  It had been my feeble attempt to be "heard" as I was once again disregarded as even being in the room.  His eyes filled with tears of empathy as we discussed my acceptance and understanding of what it means to stand in the narcissists shadow.  I keep trying to change her, to heal her, to fix her.  You think at 56 years old, I might learn.  It looks like it is unlikely I will stop my mother and husband from moving.  At this point I am trying to protect my own family. I have about 9 months.  I am feeling like I need support.  I don't know whether to go back into counseling.  I know I need better tools to cope. Any feedback is appreciated.

[TelHill]

Hello Legacymaker,

Sorry you are going through the pain associated with the plans of your mom. When my mom rages she run on emotion. When she manipulates it's a smart, logical plan of action. She is much better at manipulation than I'll ever be.

It's expected to go in and out of the FOG considering the biological pull of the child mother bond. I yearn for a nice, supportive mom. I know it's not in the cards. Yet, I keep trying. Nobody's perfect. It makes it worse when I beat myself up for being manipulated by her.

Detaching helps me relax and reach a balanced, thoughtful plan of action.

Your mom has the right to live where she wants to. Your sons have a right to see her. You have the right to see her or go NC or LC with her.

Your mom has the right to seek or not seek therapy for her bpd. If she doesn't seek it, it's hard/impossible for you to fix her. I can barely fix myself much less someone else.

This may or may not help. I am going LC again. Being in the same home pt has made me paranoid, somewhat agoraphobic and turning to food for comfort, I had these issues in high school and they've returned. Have practiced all the tips and suggestions on this site.  My mom is too far on the bpd spectrum for these smart ideas to calm her. They don't make a dent. They buy some time for a few hours until the unusual raging and dissociation begin again.

I know you are a smart woman and know all the above. I know my resolve flies out the window when I'm feeling really stressed. Sending you, your h and sons good thoughts!  

[GaGrl]

When I married my DH, his daughter and granddaughter moved in with us -- about 120 miles away from his ex. We tried being open and generous regarding her desire to drive to our city to visit her daughter and grandaughter, but Ex was insulting and obnoxious -- and I had to enforce a value and boundary ( "I will not have my home and hospitality insulted"). She is not allowed in my house.

Six months later, when SD moved 1500 miles to join her fiance, her relationship with the Ex was at an all-time low. Ex had started manipulating the grandaughter, and when confronted with SD's boundaries, had threatened to sue for custody and take the grandaughter! That was a very strained year, with one horrible visit by Ex. Then Ex announced she was moving to Texas and buying a house close to SD. SD told her -- clearly -- that the move was a bad idea and that the current rules and access to the granddaughter would not change (GD was not allowed to be alone with her uBPD/BPD grandmother until she was 12 years old, and by then, GD knew something was "off" and had her own reservations about spending time with her grandmother). There are so many examples, but...

Bottom line -- you can't prevent someone from doing what they are determined to do with their life decisions. It then becomes a matter of establishing your own personal and family values, which then help you set up your boundaries and how you will hold to them. My SD has done a really good job of doing this, and she is able to Have a relationship with her mother, even though it will never be the mother/daughter relationship she would prefer -- there will always be an imposed distance that protects her and her family.

Have you thought through those values yet? Is that something that would help?

[pursuingJoy]

Legacymaker, just want to jump in and show some solidarity. My 72 yr old BPD MIL's most desperate wish is to move in with us. It's led to major conflict with my H, her only surviving son. At worst, I fear he would move her in without my permission. At best, she will probably move to our city. Currently, she wreaks havoc on our life from two hours away. I panic at the thought of her moving down here.

For me, the convenient thing about distance is that it minimizes the need to verbalize boundaries. Identifying, verbalizing and enforcing boundaries creates a great deal of conflict in my marriage. You said you're worried about hurting her feelings. What specifically worries you?

It looks like it is unlikely I will stop my mother and husband from moving.  At this point I am trying to protect my own family. I have about 9 months.  I am feeling like I need support.  I don't know whether to go back into counseling.  I know I need better tools to cope. Any feedback is appreciated.

 
Counseling is a good idea, and we are here to support you. How else can we use the next 9 months to get you feeling stronger, visible, worthy, and equipped to face life with her nearby?

I love that you want to protect your family. What does that look like?

pj

[Legacymaker]

pursuing Joy, thank you for your response. I am not sure if you are asking what my family currently looks like, or what does protecting my family look like.  My marriage is very strong.  We will celebrate 37 years this year.  We have 3 wonderful sons, a new DIL and a new Granddaughter.  We have a lot of fun together.  The boys get along well, but the oldest has begun to pull away from his brothers, which is killing them.  Like I said, I think he may have entered into his own BPD relationship. His wife was full of charm for the 4 years it took to get a ring on her finger, now she is systematically splitting people.  As far as my mom and I go, I learned a long time ago to fly under the radar.  There is no rational discussion that I could have with her, which would result in her examining her impact on people.  If I did have a discussion, it would be with others in a room, so that there were witnesses to exactly what I had said.  I have often felt that I should keep a tape recorder on my person, so that I could defend myself when she manipulates my words.  The rages happen when others step away from my side.  I am rarely alone with her anymore.  

[Legacymaker]

Hello Legacymaker,

Sorry you are going through the pain associated with the plans of your mom. When my mom rages she run on emotion. When she manipulates it's a smart, logical plan of action. She is much better at manipulation than I'll ever be.

TelHill: I was really proud of myself a few nights ago.  I deliberately slowed my breathing and focused on my thoughts before continuing my interactions with her.  My husband and I are both trying to become more detached and less reactive.  It amazes me how jumbled my thoughts become when I am in a conversation with her.   Even the most benign topic is rife with landmines.
  
It's expected to go in and out of the FOG considering the biological pull of the child mother bond. I yearn for a nice, supportive mom. I know it's not in the cards. Yet, I keep trying. Nobody's perfect. It makes it worse when I beat myself up for being manipulated by her.

Detaching helps me relax and reach a balanced, thoughtful plan of action.

Your mom has the right to live where she wants to. Your sons have a right to see her. You have the right to see her or go NC or LC with her.

Your mom has the right to seek or not seek therapy for her bpd. If she doesn't seek it, it's hard/impossible for you to fix her. I can barely fix myself much less someone else.

This may or may not help. I am going LC again. Being in the same home pt has made me paranoid, somewhat agoraphobic and turning to food for comfort, I had these issues in high school and they've returned. Have practiced all the tips and suggestions on this site.  My mom is too far on the bpd spectrum for these smart ideas to calm her. They don't make a dent. They buy some time for a few hours until the unusual raging and dissociation begin again.

I know you are a smart woman and know all the above. I know my resolve flies out the window when I'm feeling really stressed. Sending you, your h and sons good thoughts!  

TelHill: Thank you for these understanding words.  May you too find comfort in knowing you are not alone.

[Legacymaker]

First of all, please let me apologize if I am not replying correctly to responses.  I highlighted and answered on a couple posts below, but I am not sure if that is the right way to do things, so I will continue my thoughts up here.  I think age and technology are colliding with my brain...along with anxiety induced by a uBPD mother!  So to update:
1. Today I worked on taking care of "me". I have rested and just tried to breath and calm the anxiety induced by a week long visit.
2. I spoke to my youngest son about how the week had gone.  Of the 3 boys, he is the closest in personality to myself. I let him into a bit more history of my childhood.  I have insulated my sons from this. I recognized I was doing a brain dump on him, which is the last thing I want to do, so I stopped that in its tracks.  I must realize that I do not need to validate my position.  It was nice to hear that the boys do see that I have worked really hard to understand all of this and to not doubt the success I have had with breaking the cycles of dysfunction.They know that their grandmother acts out.  They know that chaos follows her.  So instead of staying in circular thinking, we talked about solutions.  It is quite likely his grandmother and her husband will eventually make the move.  My son suggested we meet as a family unit (myself, hubby and our 3 sons) and begin to develop a game plan for when they relocate. How much time will people spend together?  How will we handle the splitting? What are safe topics etc?   
3. I was called by the realtor who is handling the sale of the new home (it is a development and requires building still).  He was asking for guidance on how to focus my mother. She isn't getting answers fast enough (ie, within the hour, on a Sunday evening),  so she is calling everyone associated with the new house-the developer, the realtor, the neighbor, the foreman, the bank manager etc., to get answers.  Many of the answers come in the form of an estimate about what something might cost, or when something might get done.  When someone like the neighbor says what it cost to build their home a year ago and it conflicts with the estimate the foreman gives (who doesn't have any authority to quote a price), there is drama in my mothers world. The team is comprised of businesses/friends, which my husband and I have worked with for years.  They can see that there is something not quite right with the way my mother acts.  Normally I would accommodate the realtors requests to become the middle man.  I usually apologize and make excuses for her behavior etc. etc.  After discussing with my husband that I am concerned about the effect my mother might be having on our relationships (with the people we put her in touch with), my husband reminded me that is not something we need to concern ourselves with.  He has directed the realtor to direct all questions to the two people purchasing the home.  If the sale of the house falls apart, because of this high level of conflict which she creates, so be it, there are consequences for everything. It is embarrassing because I am very different professionally.  I must trust that these professionals know me as a separate entity from my mother.  I must let them do their jobs and not enable my mother by becoming her mediator.

I am trying hard not to allow myself to become invisible.
I am still full of anxiety.  I would be more comfortable climbing under a rock and hiding there.  For today, I am  trying to remain present.   

[zachira]

I think you said something really key about not being alone with your mother as she treats you especially badly when others are not around. I like the idea that your son has suggested you meet and have a plan with how to deal with your mother. It sounds like you may want to limit how much contact she has with your family which means limiting her knowledge about when you are getting together. For some of the holidays, you might consider going out of town, doing something with your children and not including your mother.

[TelHill]

I have often felt that I should keep a tape recorder on my person, so that I could defend myself when she manipulates my words.  The rages happen when others step away from my side.  I am rarely alone with her anymore.  

I did it two times with the video feature of my phone. I don’t like doing it because I think everyone deserves privacy. My purpose was to show her that she needed to visit a doctor for help. She was screaming & crying. She didn’t believe me when I told her she was acting like this.  I like to believe it caused her to not resist my dad’s efforts to take her to a doctor.

I only did this out of desperation. I don’t plan recording her without her permission again.

[TelHill]

TelHill: Thank you for these understanding words.  May you too find comfort in knowing you are not alone.

You're welcome, & thanks to you. If you don't know yet, hit the excerpt link on the top right hand of the message you wish to quote and then type  [ quote ]  without the leading and ending space to start the highlighting of the message and [ /quote ]  to end it. It's the backslash that does it inside the quote brackets. Hope that helps!

[pursuingJoy]

Legacymaker, I was confounded by the excerpt tool too! In case you need it for other things, here is a link to all sorts of tips and tricks to effectively use this site:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=319252

Telhill shared how the excerpt tool works and she's right on. Here's a little more detail on that tool shared by user Harley Quinn:

There is a trick to it. Quoted text starts with a "before tag" and ends with an "after tag". When you hit the excerpt button, you'll see all this extra text pop up.

Before tag = [ quote author=Wentworth link=topic=319252.msg13010451#msg13010451 date=1540457724 ]

The excerpt you want to quote here.

After tag = [ /quote ]

Play around and see what happens. It took me a few tries to get it right.

I am not sure if you are asking what my family currently looks like, or what does protecting my family look like.

Sorry my question wasn't clear. You said you wanted to protect your family, so I was asking what protecting your family looked like. From what you've shared, it sounds like you have set things in place to protect yourself and them (not justifying or explaining your actions with the hopes she'll change, managing your anxiety, focusing on not being alone with her, staying present for your sons and aware of how her behavior and your upbringing has impacted them). I also love that you're not stepping in to mediate between the real estate agent and other professionals. I would be tempted to, especially if I knew them, but I think your husband offered good advice to just allow them to sort through their own working relationship.

I am trying hard not to allow myself to become invisible.
I am still full of anxiety.  I would be more comfortable climbing under a rock and hiding there.  For today, I am trying to remain present.    

Understanding BPD and available tools is one things, but what you described here - anxiety, feeling invisible, staying present - is the toughest part for me to manage. Is that true for you too? If so, what has helped you move through your anxiety and feeling invisible?

thinking of you Legacymaker.
pj