Is it worth waiting for and how?

[NoliTimere]

I posted a little while ago - after setting some terms with my BPD bf: no contact until he goes to therapy and stops avoiding me (he withdraws under any stress/conflict/difficulty/upset). I need love and support as well and he has to be present to have conversations, even if difficult ones. I asked him to contact me again when he was ready to work on these things.

I didn't hear from him for three weeks, then he arranged a time to Skype (we're in a LDR). We spoke a week ago, and he told me he couldn't deal with the limbo and we have to either get together properly or break up. I told him I don't want to break up, I need him to go to therapy so we can have a functioning relationship. He said he couldn't go to therapy and we need to break up. I said I respected that decision even if I felt sad and hurt. Then we spoke a lot about therapy. He understood its value and agreed he needs to go, but whether he can actually do it remains to be seen. He kept saying we need to break up because he just doesn't think it can work (the relationship, therapy, him changing). This is his go to phrase, every time he withdraws he says this. I've never managed to get out of him what he exactly means by this and feel like its a label he pastes on all the things he finds too difficult to discuss (from his past, to do with his feelings etc.), but the reasons, I guess, don't matter, if he feels this way, it's valid.

We had a good, open and what felt like honest conversation. He cried a lot and he said he understood that he can't run away forever and he talked about realising his new job is destructive (it's been a source of a lot of tension between us - it's taken over his entire life and I think offered a form of escape and self-sabotage). He wants to leave but said he feels pressured by his extended family to stay in the job. He also said he recognises he needs to really change and show me he has changed for this to work. But, nonetheless, that we need to break up. I half think he wanted me to talk him out of it (which I have done in the past, but don't think is a very good solution to these situations). 

So, there we are. It ended like that - bf in tears, struggling to say bye and then hanging up the phone. After that conversation he spent a few days posting social media stories about songs about having your heartbroken, and how amazing his job and family is. I stopped checking my social media. I don't want to block him, but his public version of events is really upsetting for me.

I feel really sad and frustrated. I wonder what the odds are that he has it in him to change.

My therapist -with experience in dealing with BPDs and their partners - said she thought he still had feelings and that my boundary-setting had worked (he had himself gotten in touch to end the limbo). She suggested that I check in closer to Christmas, by way of wishing him happy holidays, to see if he is doing anything about a) the job and b) therapy.

I wonder what people's collective experience here suggests? Was this the right approach? How do I do this 'checking in' without jeopardising my terms for contact?Am I set to have my heart broken by checking in on him again (the act itself isn't much, but the emotional investment is)?  Can and do BPDs change? Am I foolish for keeping this door slightly open? How do you do so in a healthy manner?

I find reading these boards so helpful - so many people's stories feel similar to mine. I really want to hear about what has worked for others.

Thank you for such a wonderful resource!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[itsmeSnap]

How do I do this 'checking in' without jeopardising my terms for contact?Am I set to have my heart broken by checking in on him again (the act itself isn't much, but the emotional investment is)?

I guess the right time will be when you are ok with him not answering back. If you expect or are looking for an answer, it might be setting yourself up for a broken heart.

Am I foolish for keeping this door slightly open? How do you do so in a healthy manner?

I answered my ex when I was sure I would not do what I did last time, thats all we can do. hopefully with ourselves changing the dynamic, they maybe follow along, or at least be unable to do the same old thing that leads to these sorts of separations.

I'm talking to her as a friend, I am not expecting a relationship, and right niw I honestly am comfortable staying friends. I suspect she still has feelings, but I also know they can change quite quickly, so I'm not hanging on to that possibility.

Hope all is well and happy holidays!

[NoliTimere]

Thanks for your advice, ItsmeSnap.

I guess the right time will be when you are ok with him not answering back. If you expect or are looking for an answer, it might be setting yourself up for a broken heart.
I answered my ex when I was sure I would not do what I did last time, thats all we can do. hopefully with ourselves changing the dynamic, they maybe follow along, or at least be unable to do the same old thing that leads to these sorts of separations.

I hear what you're saying. We can only work on ourselves, and change how we behave and set an example for how we want to be treated. I have been doing a lot of reflecting on my own life and other relationships, but right now, it all feels a bit overwhelming and I worry I'm regressing when upset.

What has worked for you? Are there any good resources for understanding types of personalities that end up in relationships with BPD partners?

It sounds like you and your ex have come to a good understanding!

[itsmeSnap]

What has worked for you?

After a lot of trying to understand, for me it was as simple as accepting that's who she is. She can go no contact for months at a time, she has intense mood swings, she's always on the lookout for the next relationship. That's her.

If I factor that into my engaging with her (I recently started talking to her again) I know how far to take it. She can handle being friends, I can handle being friends, so thats what we are.

It sounds like you and your ex have come to a good understanding!

I don't really see it that way

Its all fluid and implicit. We never talked about anything, no plan or "rules of engagement". she flirts from time to time, but just shallow to see if I bite (I've been there before, I know when she's doing it), I know better than to follow up, but I tease her about it.

as long as she's safely under the "friend label" with me, all is good and fair to her it seems. She did that when she was with me while getting to know her current boyfriend, it was just her "coworker and good friend"

What I'm saying is, people do what they do, and you do too. If you can come to terms with that, then you will also come to terms with your own ability to positively interact with him or not.

Are there any good resources for understanding types of personalities that end up in relationships with BPD partners?

The actual stories of real people on the boards were far more "productive" for me than the science; too "big picture" with the latter. with the stories you get to see yourself in their situation, see what they did right, or what could have been done better.

Since you are the one "giving advice", looking from a distance even if in your own head, it's much easier to see the situation for what it is, without the emotions or worries about what could happen

Took me the better part of a year to reach this point, so its not a quick fix, even after resuming contact I still see myself in the stories, and how much pain there can be if I get too deep.

I really enjoy talking to my ex, but I know thats as far as we'll manage. Hopefully you can also find your own " sweet spot" on how to reach out to him.

[Radcliff]

You're getting good advice from your therapist and itsmeSnap.  You asked about understanding how we get involved in these sorts of relationships.  An excellent book is Safe People, by Cloud and Townsend.  It's heavy on biblical references, but is such a direct hit on what we're talking about, it's readable and valuable no matter what your perspective on religion is.

My thoughts, in a nutshell, are that we value relationship and recognize the needs of others over our own needs.  Our commitment to relationship and our selflessness can be great assets, but also can be liabilities.  As we learn to recognize and value our own needs, as well as learn healthy behaviors like boundaries, we'll start to choose healthier people to be with, and will become attractive to healthier people.

RC

[NoliTimere]

Thank you both for these thoughts. I've been away from the board, but your words have resonated with me.

itsmeSnap, I have found reading others' posts over the last month or so really eye-opening. I could see myself in a lot of the stuff I was reading, but getting a different perspective on self-destructive patterns. Radcliff - I did look up the book - and other similar ones - and am still trying to work out, for myself, what got me to this emotional dynamic (and these behaviour patterns). I hope my BPD ex is doing the same.

I miss him a lot and I can't help but hope he finds his way back to me. But I know I can't do the same things again. I just don't feel able. More than that, towards the end of our relationship, I didn't find this behaviour so… compelling. It's not that I ever found it explicitly attractive (I mean, noone likes to be pushed away and rejected and generally put through a rollercoaster!), but for a long time there was something about it all that kept me in and interested.

I don't feel that anymore. I love my ex, but I don't love his behaviour. Now my instinct is to look after myself and stay on an even keel, rather than to orbit around him.

I have a long way to go, I suspect, but it feels like progress.

A good friend of mine told me the other day that mental illness is not your fault, but it is your responsibility. I feel like that's true. Both for me and for him. I am taking responsibility for my mental health and I'd expect nothing less from anyone else in my life.

[Radcliff]

It sounds like you're making great progress in processing what has happened and in setting a direction for the future.  Striving for healthy behavior from ourselves and letting folks into our lives who have healthy behaviors makes a huge difference.  How have you been in the last couple of weeks?

RC

[NoliTimere]

Hi  RC,

Thanks for checking in - I've been trying to focus on myself and not spending so much time thinking about BPD, so I've not been visiting the board.

It's been up and down. I know I am done with those patterns of behaviour, but I really miss him. I can't help but wish he might find a way out of his difficulties. I don't know how often people wBPD manage to help themselves? Can they get better and then return? Has that ever happened? Maybe it's a pipe dream.

We've not been in touch, but he posts a lot of instagram stories of songs that feel aimed at me. They're really breaking my heart. It feels really stupid that we're both suffering/sad apart. But I know that stepping in to try to 'fix' this for him is ultimately not going to do me (or him) any good. If he really wants to feel differently or better, then he needs to fix it himself. And stop posting songs about how he is doomed to misery because he will never change (ugh). That feels like an excuse he keeps telling himself so that he doesn't need to do the hard work of change.

Still, despite all that. I feel sad. I really wish things were different and that's a hard feeling to live with. Pretty far from acceptance today.

NT