S16 had a meltdown

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

It's been two weeks now. S16 texted me and said he couldn't stand living with his mom anymore. It was late at night and I was sound asleep. We have a custody 50/50 order. I picked him up the next day at school.
He went off that he can't sleep, his mom is a narcissist and a psychopath. There was no single event but a culmination. He stopped seeing me about two months ago. He refused to come out of his moms when I came to pick him up and she was not there. His mom works noon to 8 pm so he came home to an empty house. I get it at 16 being free to do whatever you feel like. I called him and sometimes he would pick up but I had little info on what was going on.
After a few days with me he wanted to move back to moms because I had problems. He is saying some of the craziest things.
I took him to a doc week and a half ago. He told the doc he needs sleeping pills.  The doc ordered blood work and found something minor. The nurse taking his blood asked him his birthday to make sure it was the person she was supposed to take the blood. He didn't know his birthday. I took him to an endocrinologist and it seemed minor. His mom showed up to that and he told the doc his mom was a narcissist and a psychopath with her in the room. All she said was that wasn't a nice thing to say. I was shocked he said it and then I looked at ex and she was frozen.
I have an appointment for a therapist this Monday. It was the soonest I could get. He wants to go so that is a good thing.
The other day he went ballistic in the car and said a lot of things. He is extremely angry. He yelled about things ten years ago when ex and I first separated. Most of it centered around how afraid he was of his mom and he seriously thought of suicide back then. He never spoke to me about it and I never picked up on anything even remotely like that. He was angry that I didn't take him away from his mom to protect him. I couldn't get a word in to explain how the legal system works and even if I could I don't think he would have heard it. 
He is emotionally very upset and then after he vents he seems calm but very distant.
I didn't see this coming at all. I thought he would eventually call me and come around.
I believe he is terrified of the way he is feeling. I think everything is coming to the surface and he doesn't know which way is up. He has no ability to concentrate and, in the last month and a half, his grades have plummeted.
On top of that, ex seems very concerned and has been nice to the point of me being scared. She hasn't been this kind to me in a decade. Her emails only address S16 and have no attacks towards me. No accusations or blame at all. I get daily emails and they all seem reasonable. Anything I have suggested she agrees to without question. It's like she is looking for me to tell her what to do.
This is all new and scary.

[david]

It's been two weeks now. S16 texted me and said he couldn't stand living with his mom anymore. It was late at night and I was sound asleep. We have a custody 50/50 order. I picked him up the next day at school.
He went off that he can't sleep, his mom is a narcissist and a psychopath. There was no single event but a culmination. He stopped seeing me about two months ago. He refused to come out of his moms when I came to pick him up and she was not there. His mom works noon to 8 pm so he came home to an empty house. I get it at 16 being free to do whatever you feel like. I called him and sometimes he would pick up but I had little info on what was going on.
After a few days with me he wanted to move back to moms because I had problems. He is saying some of the craziest things.
I took him to a doc week and a half ago. He told the doc he needs sleeping pills.  The doc ordered blood work and found something minor. The nurse taking his blood asked him his birthday to make sure it was the person she was supposed to take the blood. He didn't know his birthday. I took him to an endocrinologist and it seemed minor. His mom showed up to that and he told the doc his mom was a narcissist and a psychopath with her in the room. All she said was that wasn't a nice thing to say. I was shocked he said it and then I looked at ex and she was frozen.
I have an appointment for a therapist this Monday. It was the soonest I could get. He wants to go so that is a good thing.
The other day he went ballistic in the car and said a lot of things. He is extremely angry. He yelled about things ten years ago when ex and I first separated. Most of it centered around how afraid he was of his mom and he seriously thought of suicide back then. He never spoke to me about it and I never picked up on anything even remotely like that. He was angry that I didn't take him away from his mom to protect him. I couldn't get a word in to explain how the legal system works and even if I could I don't think he would have heard it. 
He is emotionally very upset and then after he vents he seems calm but very distant.
I didn't see this coming at all. I thought he would eventually call me and come around.
I believe he is terrified of the way he is feeling. I think everything is coming to the surface and he doesn't know which way is up. He has no ability to concentrate and, in the last month and a half, his grades have plummeted.
On top of that, ex seems very concerned and has been nice to the point of me being scared. She hasn't been this kind to me in a decade. Her emails only address S16 and have no attacks towards me. No accusations or blame at all. I get daily emails and they all seem reasonable. Anything I have suggested she agrees to without question. It's like she is looking for me to tell her what to do.
This is all new and scary.

[kells76]

 

Sounds like everything from the last decade that has been bottles up inside him just exploded out.

You did good setting up the T appointment, and that's really good that S16 wants to go.

It is concerning that he "didn't know" his birthday. letting all those feelings out must have been overwhelming to his system -- when I'm emotionally overwhelmed, I lose my ability to process what other people say.

I think you're right that explaining anything to him when he was flooded would not have been effective or helpful. He may need to process stuff for a bit (or a while?) before he's back in a place where he can understand "explanations".

And S16 is the only kid left at Mom's, right? Your other son is out of the house?

...

How did you respond when he got so angry in the car?

[david]

I mostly listened but then, I think, he tried to get personal to get a rise out of me. I didn't give that to him and he only got angrier. I then actually raised my voice which is a rare occurrence. At first, that settled him but then he turned it back up. His mom would settle down when someone raised there voice to her. I seen several people do that in the past. That's not me and I can't fake it well.
Our oldest moved out of his moms when he turned 18. I honestly wanted it to stay 50/50 for his younger brother but there really wasn't much I could do.
I am sure some of this is normal teenage stuff. The things he brought up were all things that occurred at his moms. It felt like he was yelling at her some of the time.
He did say he had an argument with his mom and he told her she had serious mental health issues. He wanted her to get help. I think that is what got her and why she is being cooperative with me. Don't know how long that will last and it still makes me nervous. I don't know when it will switch back. He told me this a week ago. He was receptive to listening somewhat then. I explained that I am unable to diagnose and neither is he but I do know that the only person that can help his mom is his mom. A person with a mental health issue has to come to the realization that they need help and then they can start the process. You can not force that on someone.

[ForeverDad]

Is he wanting you to tell him it's okay if he wants to stay more with you?  As I recall, even his older half brothers limit their time with their mother.  Sounds like it's time for him to reduce time with her.  He can always "vote with his feet" as an older teen.

I know you don't want to stir things up legally or with his mother by "advocating" a change like that, but maybe you can "allow" him - or open that door - to follow that path?

However I agree that there are some deeper issues to deal with and getting the professionals involved is a wise path too.

[livednlearned]

Oof. I feel your pain, many times over.

You're probably right that he is terrified of how he's feeling. I think a lot of our kids wonder if they're like (BPD parent) when they have out of control feelings. And from watching my son and his step siblings (who also have a BPD parent), they do have issues with emotion regulation.

What do you think is best for S16 right now?

[david]

I have no idea how to go forward. He has a planned meeting with a therapist on Monday.
Yesterday his mom called him and he promised her he would stay in her house and be nice to her if she picked him up. Of course, she came and picked him up. He did say goodbye to me which I take as a positive. I didn't think starting a battle over that was a good idea. He is 16.
Ex will be taking S16 to the therapist and I will be there too.
In the past ex would try to take charge and make sure S16 didn't say anything negative about her. I don't think this will happen now. S16 went on a rant, at me, yelling that I forced him to testify against his dad. I assume he was so upset he was really yelling at his mom because she was the one that actually did that. He said she made him betray his dad and that his dad did nothing wrong. I found out several days ago that she actually coached him on what to say in court. He told me that when he was calm. He remembered exactly what he said in court which was 2010. I remember what he said and it was different then what his mom said in the papers she filed. My attorney wanted to cross examine him but I refused because I didn't think he should have been there at all. He was only 6 at the time and I viewed it as completely wrong to do. He did say he told his mom about it too.
Depending on how things go I plan on bringing this up since he talked about it on more then one occasion and he is consistent every time he talks about it even when angry. I understand where it would haunt him but he never said anything to me. Perhaps he was to afraid or too ashamed.
I kind of forgot about it. It was ten years ago and, after he brought it up recently, I remember that was a moment when I realized there was no chance we could ever get back together because she destroyed whatever trust I had left in her. If she would do that to her own child there really is no boundary she would cross to hurt me.   

[david]

"He did say he told his mom about it too" That was a recent talk he had with her. He told me he was very afraid of her when he was younger and he was angry with me because I never saved him from her abuse. He never spoke to me about any of this back then.

[ForeverDad]

There is still a risk that S16 could retreat into past patterns of silence.  Remember, she will have had time to work on him to calm down his upset outbursts.  If you notice that after being with her he's not as determined as before, then be sure a second session (or more) is scheduled as followup and that you are the parent with parenting time beforehand.

I suggest that in case you feel she has somehow influenced him to retreat or to deny prior exclamations.

[worriedStepmom]

I am SO PROUD of your S16.  He is finally ready to process all of the crap that he's had to deal with over the last 10 years with mom.  Some people get well into adulthood before they can start to unravel any of that.

Therapy is good.

Do you see a therapist also?  It might be useful to have someone of your own to help process your guilt (over not knowing some of this / not realizing how much it affected S), but also to give you advice on how to respond when he's spewing all over you.

I read an article a long time ago that talked about, in an argument, matching the intensity of your partner or child's emotions.  There are ways to do that without being angry or aggressive.  It makes the other person feel heard and can help you defuse the situation a little.  That might be another reason why S responded when you raised your voice.   A T should be able to help guide you on some of this.

[david]

I went to S16 therapy meeting today. He really didn't say much about me except I don't live near his friends and that is what bothers him when he is with me.
He attacked ex about a bunch of things and he really does sound like the crazy one right now. He is all over the place and does not exhibit a coherent thought process. The T said in a nicer way the same thing to him. He wants to live at his moms but wants no interaction with his mom. This way he can hang out with his friends. He said it would lower his stress so he could do his school work. The T pointed out that this is not a doable scenario.
S16 brought up the fact that he was forced by her to testify against his dad. It is the one thing he has been consistent about and he views that as the reason why I went to jail. He said I didn't do anything wrong. I just listened. Ex turned around and said he was subpoenaed to testify and she had nothing to do with it. I wanted to chime in but that would have led her to ramp up and attack me. I didn't think that was a good idea for the first meeting. This is for S16 and if I said anything that would have been the end. Ex was very close to exploding a few times. I can tell from her tone and, since I haven't spoken to her in years, it was very easy to see.
S16 wanted to see the T again but by himself. I agreed before ex could chime in. These are family sessions so parents are supposed to be at most of the meetings. The T was fine with that. The T told him to make a list of everything he thinks should happen at his parents and they will discuss each individual topic.
I think his hormones have kicked in, he no longer fears repercussions from his mom/he is starting to stand up for himself, he thinks he can help her by confronting her and showing her the correct way he is showing the fixer in him, and wants to find some sense of normalcy.
His mom wants to meet his friends and he said absolutely not. He wants to keep them separate from her. The T didn't think that was how things work for a 16 year old.
I found out after that my SS34 picked him up on Sunday and took him back to his place for the day. He said they talked and he understood S16 and told him the only way he was going to get his mom to leave him alone was to do everything expected of him. Same thing I've been telling him too. Do school work, help around the house, stop attacking mom, etc. I told SS34 that I've said everything he said but I don't think S16 can hear me.  SS34 is LC with his mom. He actually had two Christmas parties: one for everyone including me and one for his mom. S16 doesn't know this and other things similar. I don't think it is something he needs to know at this time.

[worriedStepmom]

SS34 is LC with his mom. He actually had two Christmas parties: one for everyone including me and one for his mom. S16 doesn't know this and other things similar. I don't think it is something he needs to know at this time.

Why do you think this would be bad for S16 to hear?  It seems to me that he might feel very validated to hear his siblings expressing similar thoughts to what he's wrestling with.

[Harri]

He told me he was very afraid of her when he was younger and he was angry with me because I never saved him from her abuse.

What was your response?

He never spoke to me about any of this back then.

This is not surprising.  10 years ago he was 6.  Even at 16, the fact that he is saying something now is huge.   Respond with validating what is valid, appropriate boundaries and consequences where and when needed and listen without defending or justifying.  He probably does not care who subpoenaed him for example and I would have found such a statement infuriating if offered to me when I was upset.

Kids do not come out of these situations without some scars and some bad behaviors.  Kids often will not exhibit the behaviors parents are told to look for.  Kids will often come across as dealing well with the family issues, do well in school, not regress in terms of developmental behaviors and seem quite stable... until they don't.

Is the therapist aware of the history between you and your ex?  Including all the dirty details?

[david]

My concern with him knowing about the two parties is that ex will find out and SS34 will have to deal with that. I don't think S16 is ready to hear it and keep it confidential.
Years ago SS's testified in my behalf for custody saying their mom needed help. She did all kinds of things to hurt them. One SS actually is total NC with her because of it.
I also believe ex will try to justify whatever coping strategy she devises if she finds out and S16 will get sucked into that because she will need make him agree with her. He doesn't need any more from her. I know that sounds twisted but I have come to anticipate her moves very well.
When he said I never saved him I told him I was sorry but I didn't know what was going on and that I was going through the court system to try to resolve things. He basically thought I should have known what was going on and drove to her place to get him. I realized he couldn't hear me explain so I stopped trying to explain. If he brings it up at the T I will address it then or if the opportunity arises I will bring it up myself.
It was our first meeting and I didn't bring up any of the past. I let S16 do most of the talking and listened to what the T was saying. I plan on filling in a lot in the next few meetings.
We had court ordered coparenting sessions for ten months back then. After three visits the therapist asked me if I thought continuing would improve things. I said no and my reasons and I was excused. I don't know if ex had to attend anymore or not. Ex tends to open up when she feels comfortable so I mostly listened this time and let her do the talking. When she opens up she says things that let the T get it.
We were in a custody eval years ago and she said things that made me want to get up, give her a big hug, and thank you. The evaluator didn't show any emotion to let her know what she was saying. After a few meetings he challenged her and she threatened to take him to court and have him jailed and lose his license. I only believe it because I was there to see and hear it.

[david]

Ex sent me an email today. She asked if I could take S16 to T tomorrow. I said yes so I have to think about what info from the past I need to give. This could be a really good thing. I figure the most I want to spend is 15 to 20 minutes max.
There is some info that S16 already knows and I have no problem sharing that. The other stuff I have to think about. I don't think he needs to know everything and I don't want to confuse him. Also, I don't want the T to think I am pouring it on when ex is not there and making things up.

[kells76]

I have to think about what info from the past I need to give.

My guess is that the T session will at some point have you, S16, and the T all there together?

I wonder if you could also look at this as instead of "having to explain" the past, as opening up an opportunity for S16 to (safely) drive the conversation: "Hey S16, I'm guessing you have some questions for me... what's on your mind/what are you wondering about?"

Just brainstorming ways to move things a little further away from Explanations and more towards opportunities for S16 to experience being really listened to.

Of course, there may be times for explanations -- you seem to be able to pick up when it'd work and when it wouldn't, like when you tried explaining stuff to S16 in the car but noticed he wasn't really tracking with you.

There is some info that S16 already knows and I have no problem sharing that. The other stuff I have to think about.

Could be a good opportunity for you to practice ahead of time: "Good to know you're interested in what happened in X situation. To be honest, I'm not sure yet how to talk about it. I'll think about it for a few days and my plan is to keep talking about it with you at the next T session."

I don't think he needs to know everything and I don't want to confuse him. Also, I don't want the T to think I am pouring it on when ex is not there and making things up.

Do you get any 1x1 time just you and S16's T? Might be a good opening to talk about that concern with the T: "T, I think S16 might ask about a really delicate situation from the past. I'm not totally sure how to share my side of it without it looking like I'm just dumping on his mom, and I think it was a tricky enough situation that at his age, it would be confusing to learn about. What are your thoughts?"

REEEALLLLYYYY glad your S is open to therapy. I hope that it can keep going long-term for him (and you) and that it's ultimately a healing experience.

[david]

I picked S16 up at school to go the T. Put his earbuds in and didn't want to talk. We arrived and I asked the T if I could have around 10 minutes. T said yes. The last 10 minutes I go in the room and explain that I think it good if I fill in some of the history. I basically talked about all the boys and how their relationship with me and their mom has evolved. One is NC, two are LC and talked about the two Christmas parties, how SS's wife and ex used to be together all the time and now she hasn't spoken to ex in a decade. About how we all did things together as a family. I gave him a few examples and suggested he talk to his brothers about the details. I think he would hear them better than me on that stuff. 
I did mention how when mom was pregnant with him I was hoping for twins. I told him he could ask his brothers because they all thought I was nuts including his mom. I told him I still would have liked to have two of him. I think he heard that. He looked shocked.
I drove him back to school and he still didn't want to talk. I dropped him off and told him I loved him.

[livednlearned]

david, you're a teacher so you might have better insight into this, but do you think it might be helpful to check in with his teachers to see what things look like from their perspective?