Can't discuss anything important Please help

[acornplane]

Tries to avoid any discussion where important decisions have to be made...important life decisions. You know, things adults have to talk about. If the point of the discussion is to come up with a plan about something where she is involved, it's impossible to even begin the discussion without her flying off the handle.
 
She gets simmering frustrated and angry in a heartbeat. She can't share her opinion. No suggestions. No feedback. But she wants it done though. If i ask "how", she will, with much tension, say how the first step will happen, but she says it as if it's the entire game plan. And of course i'm the one who has to do it because she can't. I could, but there are parts where she has to play a role and i can't cover those parts. We can't discuss the details or plan contingencies. So we can only start it with me knowing that it's destined to fail. There isn't even the choice of not starting it, for various reason.

So it's always start something and wing it. Which means a life on constant damage control. And her being on self-destruct all the time...damage is inevitable. It's just a matter of time. I used to say to her, whether it is about her job or dealing with people, "All you have to do is nothing and everything will be fine". But she can't. If there are 100 options with 99 that will lead to something good and just 1 that will destroy everything, she will always go for that 1, without fail...everytime. Even if its actually the hardest option.

She can't even talk about how she feels and thinks. There is no approaching that subject. If i, miraculously, find a moment where she is OK (can't even say happy) and i carefully try to talk about how she feels and what she wants...she can't. She get frustrated and it can turn ugly if i don't quickly distract. So even trying to get her to talk about her emotions and thoughts in order for me to understand is impossible. When she is mad though (which seems all the time), she will accuse me of being a lot of bad things. In the beginning it hurt, and then i started to realize "Wait a minute! That's not me. That sounds nothing like me." But she is clearly looking at me that way.
How though? How are my actions being interpreted that way? Try as i may, i can never get the answer, so there is never resolve.

Any question is i am accusing her of something. Any question at all, no matter how it's asked or how free of accusatory undertones it is. Even when it's not serious and it's about a story she is telling me...
"Sara broke her leg"
"Wow! When did you find out?"
...and just like that, suddenly i'm interrogating her. So i can never learn anything because i can never ask.

She usually says, "You won't change!" when she is upset. I've tried on numerous occasions to get her to tell me what she wants me to change about myself... I never succeeded. In the heat of the moment, there is a better chance containing a nuclear blast with a paper cup than for her to articulate what she wants or how she feels. When she's calm--er, it's as if she doesn't even know.
So i don't know what exactly she doesn't like or wants me to change.

Since i don't have bpd, i see in reason and logic. 1+1 will always equal 2 to me. But i understand with her, it could be 5. It's OK if 1+1=5. I can take it for what it is to her, and just expect a 5 whenever it's a 1+1.

But then, what if it's not 1+1 that we're dealing with today. What if it's 2+2. I would have to learn, through trial and error, what the result of that expression is, just like i learned 1+1=5.

But life does not revolve around just these two equations. It's not only 1+1 and 2+2. There are countless expressions and variables. But you see, we didn't learn all the possible equations. We didn't specifically learn 221+200=421. We learned the logic behind it in order to derive the result.

So how then can i understand her logic? Is it specific? Is it random? 1+1 seems to always equal 5. There is some semblance of consistency and predictability there. But then, it also seems to be random when 1x1+1=23 when it should also be 5.
And equations as such is where most of the problems lay. I could try to keep our lives with limited equations...1+1...2+2...so everything is nice and predictable. But little details are inevitable. There will always be a new number (or a group of them) that are going to jump in...3+1+1...1+1+1. What's the answer here?

There is just no reason or logic in her perceptions...from my perspective. I understand logic can be subjective, that there is no absolute logic. But at least most people share the same logic...like 1+1=2.
If you run into someone who sees a different result, then at least they should share their reasoning behind their conclusion. They don't have to. But when they expect you to see their logic, which only they can see, without explaining it...well, it becomes a problem.

I used to always ask "Why would i do that...?" "What's the point in that?" to some absurd accusations or conclusion she'd reached. And her answer is always "i don't know". Which used to blow my mind...still does.
One, how did you reach that conclusion? And two, how can you not know how you reached it? How is it possible that you think i do something for absolutely no reason? Who does anything for no reason or without motive? How can you assume a certain thing when simply asking yourself "why?" would reveal that there is no benefit in it for me...hence your presumption being baseless. Just completely irrational things that make no sense.

It feels like this...
Imagine someone wants you to open a door but the key is in their possession and they are unable to open it themselves. So you say "sure, just pass me the key", but they say "Please, just open the door!" You, now perplexed, say "OK, but just pass the key so i can do that" and they say "Stop doing this! blah, blah blah...[getting angry and frustrated]...please! Just open it!"  You ask "How? It's a metal door, i can't break it down. Why can't you just simply pass the key?" And then they say "See! This is who you are! You always...[accusations]". You start to feel the panic creep up because you know the land of chaos and irrationality you're being catapulted into. But you maintain composure and say "I will gladly do that for you, but in order for me to do that, i need the key. I don't have a key to open the door - you know that. I just need you to give me the key". But, they snap..."I can't do this with you!..." You, "How do you want me to open the door?" Them, "Aaaah! This is why I...![accusations and blame and threats].

You can't even walk away because it will never go away, but rather escalate until you open the door. You can't open the door because you don't have the key. You can't break or pick it because it is break and pick proof. You can't get the key yourself because you don't know where it is, and they're not telling you. You can't even get an answer to why they can't pass the key, so you can't figure out how to get the the key in another way...and all this is to essentially do something that they themselves want and is only to their benefit in the first place! Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I understand that she sees in emotions and not logic. But how can i see things the way she does so that we can meet at the meeting table and come out with progress?

Thanks for listening! I am so glad a community like this exits, its a Godsend!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ABC123987]

Her reactions and inability to discuss or consider important things -- that is almost certainly not going to change without her receiving significant therapy. But that is an important discussion, and if you bring up her seeking a therapist, it's very likely she'll blow up at you.

Trying to reason with her is not going to work. You think it should, it makes sense to you, but it won't, and if you try and keep trying, you will be beating your head against a wall.

She has core damage from very early childhood. What happened and why aren't really important nor relevant, but the result is a borderline personality disordered individual. A personality disorder won't magically or miraculously resolve itself of its own accord, and it won't be resolved by you talking her out of it.

She needs a good therapist with experience with BPD and who is capable of working with her, and that requires that she voluntarily enters therapy and stays with it.

While it is certainly not her fault this happened to her, her BPD is not her fault, you can't do anything from the outside except set your own boundaries, don't retaliate to attacks, and so on.

I have 5 years of experience with a borderline disordered woman, and the patterns are the same. If I asked her how much something cost her, she got angry as if I was interrogating her. She took my innocent query and translated it to mean I was criticizing her for spending too much money. If I tried to have a discussion about anything regarding the relationship, she would get pissed off at me. But it was ok when she brought up issues. She lied to me many times, some I caught, and I blinded myself to all of that because of my own core damage from childhood.

In the end I think we used each other. She would split off parts of herself she couldn't accept and project them onto me -- I was 'selfish' for example, or being a dick, when it was her who was behaving that way. And I split off and projected my vulnerability onto her, and then had more compassion for her than for myself. Won't go into more detail, but 2 years of my own therapy and I've made significant progress re-connecting and recovering the parts of myself, the emotions, that I cut off as a child to survive and stay attached to my mother. That damage of mine set the template for the kind of women I would be attracted to and long for, to recreate what felt normal to me as 'attachment'.

My advice is, if you can, seek therapy for yourself and uncover what's going on with you, because any healthy male will not stay with someone who is unable to sustain and maintain and intimate relationship, and vice versa.

There are likely things you need to uncover and resolve, abreact on, to heal those issues in yourself, which will then be reflected in who you become attracted to and how you behave.

[acornplane]

Thank you for your input ABC. I don't really expect her condition to go away. I would like that, but that's not what i am seeking at this moment.

All i want to know now is how to better handle her. I want to be able to speak her language. I want the combination codes...not to her cure, but rather to grease the wheels. To mitigate things. What works, what doesn't. Right now im at nothing works, but i understand that it's because what i am doing that isn't working. I want to know what it is that i can do that will.

I'm basically seeking insight from those who've been at this particular facet of this mayhem and discovered a way to get results.

[once removed]

All i want to know now is how to better handle her. I want to be able to speak her language. I want the combination codes...not to her cure, but rather to grease the wheels. To mitigate things. What works, what doesn't. Right now im at nothing works, but i understand that it's because what i am doing that isn't working. I want to know what it is that i can do that will.

these are the right questions. you want to understand, and understanding, in and of itself, will be your best friend.

Tries to avoid any discussion where important decisions have to be made...important life decisions.

what, specifically, are we talking about recently? we can help walk you through it.