A new twist to ubpdh's cycle

[sunny060918]

So a new twist has developed overnight...
ubpdh and I have controlled contact (living apart, but interacting). Last night, I was at the house and one of my adult sons and his wife and baby asked if they could swim (had to vacate their apt for a few hours). Hubby said cool so we hung out a bit. During this time, my older son called with a medical concern while he had his 6 mo old daughter and his wife was working. All that to say, my attention was divided. This is a typical trigger for my husband. Plus he had an extremely stressful day at work.

I ended up leaving the house around 9pm, we said our goodbyes, kissed/hugged. Confirmed plans to go to church Wednesday (tonight). Then he went completely radio silent. No goodnight or good morning texts which is our habit. I texted him at 9:30am saying GM, but it was blocked. I texted once more late afternoon to remind him my daughter had an appt after school so I wouldn't be at the house when he got home from work.  Nothing from him. Not a peep.
His usual MO is to rage - yell/scream, berate me for made up transgressions, paranoid accusations, completely irrational behavior (you know the drill). Even after I moved out and he had an episode, he harassed me with texts which I ignored and he came out of it the next day. But this time is different.

I have NO idea what to make of this... Is this a good thing? A good sign? Maybe he's  acquired enough self-awareness to separate himself so he can't verbally abuse me like he's done before? I'm an eternal optimist (except when I'm worn down) so sometimes I overestimate things as being "good" or "progress".

I'm giving him time and space. I'm at my apartment and doing my own thing. And I am trying very very hard to not feel rejected. This is not about me... (right?) This is a better alternative to what he normally does, but this doesn't feel good either...

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[sunny060918]

Update: I spoke to my/our T last night. She explained more than likely, ubpdh is trying a different tactic. He knows I've worked hard on rejection/performance issues and this is a weak spot for me. T reinforced that this is not about me. It's a subconscious mechanism on hubby's part. I'm not to reach out. I need to focus on doing my own thing. When he comes around, I'm not even going to acknowledge it bothered me. If he mentions it first, I'll just say after I texted twice without a reply, I figured you needed space or something...
T did say since she hasn't spoken to him, it's possible he is distancing himself to try to regulate on his own and not lash out at me. But I think that's unlikely.
Since I moved out and since he stopped drinking and doing THC, his dysregulation has started occurring more frequently. It's happened once a week for the last 3 weeks. Each time he has handled it differently. 1st, he raged at me by phone/texts. 2nd, he "calmly" wrote a 3 page email to which I replied. He said he wanted to talk about it, then he dropped it completely and said it wasn't necessary. 3rd, silent treatment.  Could the rules of engagement be changing?
Thanks for reading!

[formflier]

My first reaction is that this is...his actions are likely changing as a result of your "consistency".  Said another way, he wasn't getting the emotional payoff he was looking for, so he is switching things up.  (Note:  I don't think he is consciously thinking this through)

It is possible that he realizes anything he would have to say is damaging and as a result is keeping quiet.  Time will tell on this theory.

How is your self care going?  That's my go to when curve balls get thrown my way.  (while in the back of my mind repeating to myself "don't give this conflict any "fuel")

Thanks

Best,

FF

[formflier]

Update: I spoke to my/our T last night. She explained more than likely, ubpdh is trying a different tactic.  

Cross posted...I started a reply and then couldn't finish it for a couple hours (long story..in and of itself).

Basically your T and I are in the same headspace.

I would encourage you to discuss with your T how "thoughtful" your hubby may be about this...or if it is more an emotional reaction..or "emotional searching"...for a dysfunctional payoff that he is "missing" or "wanting".

Why?

Well...if your T can help you identify his goal...you can "open the door" to a substitute payoff (that is healthier)...perhaps one day he will "walk through that door".

Extreme example for clarity  

Him:  "I want to discuss all your character faults and convince my neighbors and the TV station I'm a victim of your malfeasance...and doggone it...somebody stole my wizards wand..."

You:  "Goodness...I'm not sure what to say.  I am thinking of trying out that new walking trail this afternoon, maybe we could take some pictures together."     (important to plant the "together" seed at the end)

When he rejects it...don't grab onto drama...when he accepts...don't fawn or go overboard.  Stay neutral.

Really good job having a T..!        This is long game stuff...marathon, not a sprint.

Best,

FF

[sunny060918]

FF,
Thank you so much for your replies. Really helpful!

Last night T said the same as you. Once she speaks with him she may have a better idea of this is thoughtful he might be. Her first impression is that this is subconscious for him. Since his usual methods no longer "work" to get the payoff he wants, he's trying other methods.

My self-care is talking to my T, my support system (Board, a close friend, my mom), my faith, focusing on work, my kids/grandkids, my online school work (finishing up my degree in Psych/Crisis Counseling), and researching BPD.  This is Day 2 of ST...we've never gone this long without communicating. 

Your advice about finding a substitute payoff sounds really good and I'll discuss with T. I also really appreciate what you said about not grabbing on to the drama if he rejects it and don't fawn/go overboard if he responds well. I've got to remember to stay neutral. 

When I'm tired and worn down I start to wonder if I can do this long term. When I'm rested and energized, I get my wings under me and my determination and commitment return.

Thank you again for taking the time to read and reply! So appreciate you and this board!

[sunny060918]

Update - he called tonight. I answered like normal. "Hiii! How're you?" He brought up the silent treatment. Said he just needed space and time to do some soul-searching. I said I figured and that you'd talk when you were ready. He has asked to talk to me tomorrow night. This fills me with dread. I can't anticipate what he's going to say, but I'm trying to anyway so I can prepare myself to respond/react as well as possible. I have a nagging feeling that he's going to say he wants a divorce. At this point, if that's what he really wants (not saying that it's for my best interest) and he is unwavering, I think I'll just say OK. I choose to stay with him. I want him to choose to stay with me. I don't want to have to convince anyone to stay with me, and I'm not going to. He uses divorce sometimes because in the past it has stepped on my rejection issues and I come towards him a bit more and he regains some degree or sense of control in the relationship. Not this time. I can get off this rollercoaster ride.  (I sure hope I'm wrong...)

[once removed]

i think youre getting great advice from your therapist. thats really invaluable.

I have a nagging feeling that he's going to say he wants a divorce.

it could happen. you know him best, and especially if there is a history of this sort of thing, it could be another tactic (im in agreement that these things may not be conscious, but a means of getting attention). i threatened to break up with my ex many, many times, and in retrospect, it was a way to get her to see things my way, about the problems we were having. it was both desperate (conscious) and manipulative (less conscious). its a dysfunctional coping mechanism, but people do these things.

if this were to happen, i think that your best bet would be, not to respond in a way that doesnt take it seriously, but not to respond in a way that puts too much weight on it either; doesnt invest an enormous emotional response. tread lightly. its understandable that you may want to show a different response that you have in the past, but 180s arent always the solution either. if you show indifference, he will feel that. your best bet is to be cool, yes, and respond in a different way than you have in the past, but anyone threatening a relationship breakup who is told, more or less, "hey, i cant stop you", will tend to up the ante.

have you spoken? howd it go?

[formflier]

As someone who has likely been threatened with divorce over 1000 times...(and I wish that were an exaggeration)...certainly well over 500. 

Full context...I think only twice in the past year..and those were "vague".


Anyway...I would work with your T before you EVER respond to a divorce request.  What you say should NOT (in FF opinion) be about what your husband says and wants.  It's your "vote" on the future of the r/s.

If you decide to divorce...I would advise you to do that regardless of your hubby's wishes.

If you decided to stay together...I would advise you to do that regardless of your hubby's wishes...albeit I would also advise you that vote will not "win", should he actually decide to divorce.

It's important that you work on your divorce fears...that is a "hook" he can exploit.  Do you think he has in the past?

Best,

FF

[sunny060918]

Thank you OnceRemoved and FF for your input!

Once Removed - we haven't spoken yet. Plan to tonight (Friday) after work. Your perspective on how to respond to threat of divorce was much needed and appreciated!  I think I will try to listen, identify the emotions behind his words, mirror back to him and if he pushes me for a response, I'm going to say something along the lines of "I need to think about this". I will probably also make my exit.  I'm starting to wonder if we spend too much time together even when his behavior is relatively healthy. I've been viewing that as reinforcing the good/healthy behavior. But I'm doubting myself a little bit. Next appt with T is Monday night and I'll discuss with her then...

FF ~ yes, I need to keep working on my divorce fears as he has exploited this in the past on several occasions.
It's a challenge for me to balance responding to him or planning around him and maintaining my autonomy and doing what I need when it differs from what he needs/wants.

Thanks again for reading/responding! I hope y'all have a happy Friday!

[sunny060918]

We spoke tonight. Turns out the reason he blocked me and gave me the silent treatment was because he had gone through my texts on my apple watch when I forgot it at the house on Tuesday night. He found that I had texted with my mom and bff about him. He found that I loaned my son $350 and that I didn't want hubby to know (he has weird issues with my sons for some reason - jealousy of my attention or something). Anyway, he said it was my dishonesty that was wrong. I validated his emotions (he has major trust issues from 1st wife's serial betrayals over 20 years).
End of convo included him saying he didn't like shutting me out, but he had to collect his thoughts and knew if he tried to talk to me before he was ready, things could've turned ugly. He also asked me to put all of my computer stuff on my own desktop and that way our stuff is separate. I agreed. I already have most of what I need on a thumb drive anyway. And I never use his computer to do anything personal.

He doesn't see that his "need" to snoop is an issue. He says his "rages" aren't bpd rage, it's just "anger issues" and he's only had 1 episode where he raged since he quit drinking. But all in all, I think tonight was ok. He said he thought the conversation went much better than he thought. (I used to get super defensive, argue, and try to be "right". I've gotten past that for the most part since T and I've been working on my issues.)
Thanks for y'all's input - really helped me feel a little more prepared to practice what I've been reading about.

[formflier]

Did he agree to come to you first before snooping in the future?

It's one thing to debate the propriety of something done "in the moment"...in the past.  It's another to have a thoughtful conversation about the future.

If you didn't clarify this...I hope you will find time to do so in the future.  Remember...you are not asking him to agree that what he did was wrong..but that it bothered you and affects your feelings toward him and the r/s.

Much like him finding out private details of your relationships with other people...bothered him.

Can all your devices be locked down to prevent this in the future...regardless of what your hubby says and agrees to?

Best,

FF

[sunny060918]

Did he agree to come to you first before snooping in the future?

It didn't even occur to me to ask. I will discuss with T tomorrow. I just don't think along the same lines as him so it's hard for me to try and stay ahead of him. For example, it just now dawned on me that I should change my passcodes on my phone and watch. Should have thought of that a long time ago. Thank you for mentioning it!

[formflier]

Discuss with your T..solid plan.  

My idea is a quick..almost "oh by the way" type of thing.

You are not "convincing" him...you are "planting a seed"

"Hey babe...I was thinking about how you expressed that you felt about (describe what he said very briefly). "

"That was important to you..right?"

(this is you lightly setting the hook)

"You know...I felt a similar way hearing my private conversations were violated." (do NOT say "you violated them")

don't dwell..

"Anyway...I'm glad we've moved past this in a productive way."

"Say...want to try that fish dish we've been talking about?"

Just keep on moving along.

Best,

FF

[sunny060918]

"You know...I felt a similar way hearing my private conversations were violated." (do NOT say "you violated them")
don't dwell..
"Anyway...I'm glad we've moved past this in a productive way."
"Say...want to try that fish dish we've been talking about?"
Just keep on moving along.

Thanks for this! I've told him before I was not going to allow access to my emails/phone anymore because I felt my trust is violated when he snoops and then uses things against me that he fabricates and obsesses over.  And that was all fine until I forgot my watch at the house. (I've fixed that now.)I hope at some point the trust issues are resolved enough that this "need" of his diminishes. I did find it interesting that he suggested keeping all my stuff away from him cuz he knows he can't handle the privilege.