Any advice on My Story?

[AffableNinja]

Hello everyone. I am new to this community and found it from "Stop Walking on Egg shells." I (37 m) have been married for 11 years to my wife (35 f). We have 3 children (6, 6 and 4).

My wife has always had emotional outbursts and been full of rage. She gets mad at the slightest things and routinely says things like "I hate you," "I wish you were dead," "you're a PLEASE READing piece of PLEASE READ," etc. She will even take things I've said I'm insecure about and throw them in my face.

Naturally, this led my to stop communicating with her about those sorts of things. There have also been moments, especially when she was younger, when she would lash out and resort to physical violence.

Many of her outbursts now include statements about "killing herself," or how worthless she is. They can occur if she said "it's going to snow tomorrow." And then I said "they actually just changed the forecast. Let's see though." (Not that we've ever actually had that conversation, it's just a point to emphasize how quickly and randomly they occur).

Now, when she gets upset, she tells the kids that they are "terrible kids," "horrible kids," "pieces of PLEASE READ," that she "hates them," she tells them to shut the PLEASE READ up, etc. She has never resorted to physical violence nor is she in any way neglectful, but these things happen.

As a result of the issues we were facing, in 2017, I told her I was unhappy in our marriage and that divorce was on the table. I asked to go to couples therapy. She said "well, why don't you go to therapy and tell me what you find out." So, instead of canceling the marriage, I began therapy.

We then moved to a new state and I found a new therapist. During all of this, I was harassing her about going herself. She made excuse after excuse. Eventually, after another nearly fatal night for our marriage, she agreed to go to individualized and couples therapy.

Couples counseling hasn't been all that helpful as communication was never a huge weak point. She has only gone to therapy semi weekly though.

I've taken to documenting the incidents with the children via a notebook and, extremely occasionally, recording the emotional abuse.

After speaking with my therapist about it, he recommended reading the walking on egg shells book. Needless to say, it was eye opening.

I now view her issues in an entirely different light. But I'm also exasperated with the behavior. While she has gotten incrementally better, she still has these fundamental issues, especially as it relates to the name calling, mocking, and berating of the kids and myself as well as the quick rage triggers.

In the book they stated that kids function better in a happy marriage (we are not), then in a non conflict divorce, then in an unhappy marriage, and finally a conflicted divorce.

My issue is that if I leave, I will only be able to get the kids 1/2 time. Which means they will be subject to her emotional abuse the other 1/2 of the time. I also would feel insanely guilty and wrong about pursuing fulltime custody because, when she's not raging, she really is a great mother.

So, I just don't know what to do. Have any of you ever dealt with this before? Does anyone have insight into how impactful it will be if I don't get full custody and the kids still have to deal with the issues except without my help intervening? I am also feeling scared about ending it. Fear about being an asshole by doing it.

Thank you all for reading this and any advice you may have would be great.

[SinisterComplex]

Hello everyone. I am new to this community and found it from "Stop Walking on Egg shells." I (37 m) have been married for 11 years to my wife (35 f). We have 3 children (6, 6 and 4).

My wife has always had emotional outbursts and been full of rage. She gets mad at the slightest things and routinely says things like "I hate you," "I wish you were dead," "you're a PLEASE READing piece of PLEASE READ," etc. She will even take things I've said I'm insecure about and throw them in my face.

Naturally, this led my to stop communicating with her about those sorts of things. There have also been moments, especially when she was younger, when she would lash out and resort to physical violence.

Many of her outbursts now include statements about "killing herself," or how worthless she is. They can occur if she said "it's going to snow tomorrow." And then I said "they actually just changed the forecast. Let's see though." (Not that we've ever actually had that conversation, it's just a point to emphasize how quickly and randomly they occur).

Now, when she gets upset, she tells the kids that they are "terrible kids," "horrible kids," "pieces of PLEASE READ," that she "hates them," she tells them to shut the PLEASE READ up, etc. She has never resorted to physical violence nor is she in any way neglectful, but these things happen.

As a result of the issues we were facing, in 2017, I told her I was unhappy in our marriage and that divorce was on the table. I asked to go to couples therapy. She said "well, why don't you go to therapy and tell me what you find out." So, instead of canceling the marriage, I began therapy.

We then moved to a new state and I found a new therapist. During all of this, I was harassing her about going herself. She made excuse after excuse. Eventually, after another nearly fatal night for our marriage, she agreed to go to individualized and couples therapy.

Couples counseling hasn't been all that helpful as communication was never a huge weak point. She has only gone to therapy semi weekly though.

I've taken to documenting the incidents with the children via a notebook and, extremely occasionally, recording the emotional abuse.

After speaking with my therapist about it, he recommended reading the walking on egg shells book. Needless to say, it was eye opening.

I now view her issues in an entirely different light. But I'm also exasperated with the behavior. While she has gotten incrementally better, she still has these fundamental issues, especially as it relates to the name calling, mocking, and berating of the kids and myself as well as the quick rage triggers.

In the book they stated that kids function better in a happy marriage (we are not), then in a non conflict divorce, then in an unhappy marriage, and finally a conflicted divorce.

My issue is that if I leave, I will only be able to get the kids 1/2 time. Which means they will be subject to her emotional abuse the other 1/2 of the time. I also would feel insanely guilty and wrong about pursuing fulltime custody because, when she's not raging, she really is a great mother.

So, I just don't know what to do. Have any of you ever dealt with this before? Does anyone have insight into how impactful it will be if I don't get full custody and the kids still have to deal with the issues except without my help intervening? I am also feeling scared about ending it. Fear about being an asshole by doing it.

Thank you all for reading this and any advice you may have would be great.

First and most importantly...welcome.  . Glad you found us here. I am truly sorry you have had to endure the rollercoaster you have. For many of us we have been there and we do get it.

What I want to know is how do you want to proceed? It's ok to be honest. Answer what YOU want to do and not what you think you should do. That is important. Furthermore, for discussion purposes your answer will dictate which board you should be on.

Have you looked into therapists who specialize in DBT or CBT?

Sometimes couples counselors are not equipped to handle disordered individuals. A good counselor may even recommend you to seek out specialists. Has this come up for you? Just wanted to throw that in there.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[AffableNinja]

First and most importantly...welcome.  . Glad you found us here. I am truly sorry you have had to endure the rollercoaster you have. For many of us we have been there and we do get it.

What I want to know is how do you want to proceed? It's ok to be honest. Answer what YOU want to do and not what you think you should do. That is important. Furthermore, for discussion purposes your answer will dictate which board you should be on.

Have you looked into therapists who specialize in DBT or CBT?

Sometimes couples counselors are not equipped to handle disordered individuals. A good counselor may even recommend you to seek out specialists. Has this come up for you? Just wanted to throw that in there.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

Wow, I'd never considered what I want to do outside of the context of "what I should do." They've always been inextricably intertwined for me.

I want to leave. If I'm being honest, I really don't think I love her anymore. My days are spent trying to intervene with the kids and then battling the inevitable fight from intervening. But I am scared and feel guilty.

As to the therapist, we did go to one who specialized in CBT. Her therapist also does CBT. She doesn't have a formal diagnosis. My therapist just noted that many of the behaviors she exhibits are aligned with BPD but obviously, he couldn't diagnose her since she's not a patient of his. But he has mentioned she should see a therapist that specializes in DBT. But I can't get her to see her therapist more than once every other week, let alone a new one.

With that said, the book basically laid out specific examples that I deal with, word-for-word (minus self mutilation). So, I really believe it's what she's struggling with.

[ForeverDad]

Your distress over the effects on the children if you were to "leave" is understandable, we've been there, done that.  Perhaps this would help you to adjust your perspective...  Could you conceptualize it as you providing a measure of safety and protection for your children where they can relax and benefit from living at least a part of their lives away from the strife and stress their mother causes?

Likely you leave the home to go work or do errands and you're not there while you're absent.  So the reality is you're not there even now to protect the kids 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

A few decades ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action, as appropriate, will enable your lives or at least a part of your lives to be spent be in a calm, stable environment - your home, wherever that may be - away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

In short, you can choose to make the best of a lousy situation, whether you stay with demonstrated improvement, "stay for now" pending improvement or whether you go.  The reasonable best.

Your decisions of course will be affected by the extent of your spouse's actions and behaviors.  But it's always up to you to decide what boundaries you will set in your life, what you will do or not do, etc.

[alleyesonme]

Hello everyone. I am new to this community and found it from "Stop Walking on Egg shells." I (37 m) have been married for 11 years to my wife (35 f). We have 3 children (6, 6 and 4).

My wife has always had emotional outbursts and been full of rage. She gets mad at the slightest things and routinely says things like "I hate you," "I wish you were dead," "you're a PLEASE READing piece of PLEASE READ," etc. She will even take things I've said I'm insecure about and throw them in my face.

Naturally, this led my to stop communicating with her about those sorts of things. There have also been moments, especially when she was younger, when she would lash out and resort to physical violence.

Many of her outbursts now include statements about "killing herself," or how worthless she is. They can occur if she said "it's going to snow tomorrow." And then I said "they actually just changed the forecast. Let's see though." (Not that we've ever actually had that conversation, it's just a point to emphasize how quickly and randomly they occur).

Now, when she gets upset, she tells the kids that they are "terrible kids," "horrible kids," "pieces of PLEASE READ," that she "hates them," she tells them to shut the PLEASE READ up, etc. She has never resorted to physical violence nor is she in any way neglectful, but these things happen.

As a result of the issues we were facing, in 2017, I told her I was unhappy in our marriage and that divorce was on the table. I asked to go to couples therapy. She said "well, why don't you go to therapy and tell me what you find out." So, instead of canceling the marriage, I began therapy.

We then moved to a new state and I found a new therapist. During all of this, I was harassing her about going herself. She made excuse after excuse. Eventually, after another nearly fatal night for our marriage, she agreed to go to individualized and couples therapy.

Couples counseling hasn't been all that helpful as communication was never a huge weak point. She has only gone to therapy semi weekly though.

I've taken to documenting the incidents with the children via a notebook and, extremely occasionally, recording the emotional abuse.

After speaking with my therapist about it, he recommended reading the walking on egg shells book. Needless to say, it was eye opening.

I now view her issues in an entirely different light. But I'm also exasperated with the behavior. While she has gotten incrementally better, she still has these fundamental issues, especially as it relates to the name calling, mocking, and berating of the kids and myself as well as the quick rage triggers.

In the book they stated that kids function better in a happy marriage (we are not), then in a non conflict divorce, then in an unhappy marriage, and finally a conflicted divorce.

My issue is that if I leave, I will only be able to get the kids 1/2 time. Which means they will be subject to her emotional abuse the other 1/2 of the time. I also would feel insanely guilty and wrong about pursuing fulltime custody because, when she's not raging, she really is a great mother.

So, I just don't know what to do. Have any of you ever dealt with this before? Does anyone have insight into how impactful it will be if I don't get full custody and the kids still have to deal with the issues except without my help intervening? I am also feeling scared about ending it. Fear about being an asshole by doing it.

Thank you all for reading this and any advice you may have would be great.

Welcome! I'm sorry that you're here under these circumstances, but this board and the posters on it are very helpful.

What you've described probably closely mirrors what about (by my rough estimate) 95% of the posters here have experienced. It's awful, maddening, and beyond emotionally exhausting. No one should have to go through that - as a spouse or a child, yet here we all are. I was in the exact same boat in terms of what to do while we were still married.

One point I'd like to make is that, while your W may be a great mom when she's not being verbally abusive, that verbal abuse is very harmful for your kids to experience. So unless your W drastically changes, no matter how good of a mom she is when she's "calm," only you can decide whether that makes up for the abuse.

You mentioned that you've been documenting and recording some of the abuse. I know you said you'd feel badly if it came to this, but it just may be in your kids' best interest to be with you more than half the time in the event of a divorce, at least until your W makes a significant amount of progress in therapy. The more you can document now, the better your chances will be in a custody dispute if it ever comes to that.

Have you looked into getting some hidden cameras installed in your home?

Also, wouldn't be a bad idea to arrange for a consultation with 2-3 divorce lawyers. No one ever has to know that you had these meetings, and this will help you get your ducks in a row ahead of time in the event that you two get divorced. If the marriage ends up being saved and this current period becomes just a rough patch in the past, then that's great. But if divorce ends up being the best option, then you need to make sure that you're prepared for it legally.

[BigOof]

My issue is that if I leave, I will only be able to get the kids 1/2 time. Which means they will be subject to her emotional abuse the other 1/2 of the time. I also would feel insanely guilty and wrong about pursuing fulltime custody because, when she's not raging, she really is a great mother

1) You should get more than 50/50 if she is as you describe and you have the evidence. Keep recording

2) Children are traumatized by moments she's raging, not the good times. Try listening to "Understanding the Borderline Mother" to see the lifetime of effects it has on them

3) It wouldn't be wrong and you shouldn't feel guilty by taking your children out of a volatile situation that is harming them

[Turkish]

Before kids, my ex tried to send me to a couples communication class by myself. Only when I looked crestfallen and said, "it's for couples," did she say "fine! I'll go." It was a good class and we both liked it, yet that wasn't the problem.

When she left, convinced me to go to couples therapy, only to abandon me to it. She had found a new guy.

Blameshifting is a defense mechanism. Have you tried any of the tools in the book? We have many articles and discussions here. At a top level, they're linked in the green pull down tabs (Tools and Tips) at the top of the site:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

Have you tried SET?

Do you feel that you and the kids are safe, other than her verbal abuse?

[ForeverDad]

My mantra was that I needed to have as much custody and parenting as possible.  I didn't limit myself to some arbitrary standard.  Sadly, the courts were all too willing to start with standard frameworks but I persevered with a long term perspective.

Here's my history from 2005 to 2013...

Separated 2005, she faced a Threat of DV charge, I got a TPO listing my house as my safe space and she went to domestic court and filed posturing for her own protection and included our preschooler.  Court excluded our son but assigned her temp custody and temp majority time.  That didn't make sense to me, I got the court's protection but she got the child?  That's the legal concept that a person might be a bad adult but doesn't influence against being the parent in charge.

2006-2007... She delayed the divorce as long as she could because she had a very favorable temp order.  We had a good Custody Evaluator who advocated me to at least equal Shared Parenting but when she wanted to avoid the trial, I set one additional term, that I would be the parent responsible for School.

2010-2011... Conflict continued so I filed for custody and majority time and won Change of Circumstances.  The GAL wanted us to split the difference in a settlement, I would get custody and she would keep equal time so she could get child support.

2013... Conflict continued so I filed again for majority time.  This time GAL was peeved with my ex and supported me.  School also testified about issues.  I got majority time but only during the school year.  Finally the games and disparagement subsided.  Last time in court.

2020... Son became an adult and aged out of the court system.

Yes, it took 8 years to attain a workable order, but court seems to prefer small improvements rather than huge swings.  That why I encourage our members to get the best (or least bad) temp order from the start.  Our temp orders can seem more permanent than temporary with our lengthy divorce cases,  so do try to get one as good as possible from the start.