Confused Post BPD relationship

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi all…

I am so confused about my current relationship. If you wanna call it that.

I was with my ex BPD partner for two years, and now it feels like my head is so screwed up I don’t even know which end is up, mostly in regard to my current relationship.

It’s been eight months since I have been with my ex BPD partner, and I’ve only been with my current partner a couple of months, but I can’t tell if the feelings that I’m having are residual trauma from my previous relationship, or that perhaps my current partner is just not the best fit for me.

It doesn’t help that my current partner doesn’t believe of a lot of the ideological concepts that are important to me… I think that’s why I’m struggling.

I am a fairly progressive thinker, and she’s not. She’ll come up with all these conspiracy theories that make no sense to me, and even simple concepts she will reject when I talk about them, and then I feel invalidated and feel that the end is near.  I can’t tell if I’m looking for trouble, or if trouble already exists. I could use a objective viewpoint.

Here’s a specific example. It seems very trivial, and she says it is, but I think it shows a larger red flag.

We were talking about recycling, and I was about to put a paper bag from a local fast food place in her recycling bin when she told me that she doesn’t recycle paper. When I asked why, she told me all these reasons, none of which made much sense. At least to me. They seemed to for her.

So, I thought I would try to help clarify some of her theories and I looked on her town’s Recycling page, and it was pretty clear that the items that she was not recycling were perfectly allowable in her town. I pointed this out to her, and she still said she probably wouldn’t recycle them, and reiterated that it was because of her reasons, which I just pointed out were no longer valid. She didn’t care. She said she had the right to make any choice that she wanted, and that she does a good job recycling 98% of the time, and doesn’t care about the rest.

My perspective was… If you now know that you can recycle certain items,  then why would you not choose to do that? I told her that her insistence that she still will not likely recycle those items disrespects things that are important to me. She didn’t care. She just looked at me and told me that it’s her right to choose whatever she wants, and that’s just the way she is.

I felt hugely slighted by that, and it really struck a nerve. I told her that I thought that her attitude about it was disrespecting things that were important to me. She wasn’t getting it.

I do understand, this is a minor situation, but it really triggered me for some reason. I know if I dug deeply, it probably hits on my abandonment issues, and that if she is able to disregard things that are important to me in this small area, how many times will she disregard other things that are really important to me, and when will she finally decide enough is enough?

I hit hard enough with this issue that it could already be the end. It wouldn’t surprise me if she tells me that she just doesn’t want to continue in a situation with somebody who expects her to be a certain way. She said she thought I was a black-and-white thinker. I can’t say.  She has said in the past that she doesn’t want to feel not enough in a relationship, and I can almost assure that right now she is probably feeling not enough, based on the fact that I said some pretty curt things to her… Told her that her attitude was somewhat of a copout for not doing better with some simple things that were important to her partner.

So what’s my question? Am I self-destructing this relationship because of demons of my past…? Destroy or be destroyed?

Is it reasonable to think that if you get a handful of these kinds of contradictions that may be the red flags are valid? Could this just not be the right person for me, given some fundamental differences and ideology?

As mentioned, I can’t tell what end is up. She’s a very sweet lady, and often will do the world for me. I’m not sure I need that, but she’s been so giving and sweet and understanding. That’s really valuable.

I often wonder if our way of life, and even my sporadic attraction to her, will be enough to keep things from going off the rails.

Any thoughts would be certainly appreciated. My heart is twisted around right now.  Thank you!

[Mr. Kelly]

Hi all…

I am so confused about my current relationship. If you wanna call it that.

I was with my ex BPD partner for two years, and now it feels like my head is so screwed up I don’t even know which end is up, mostly in regard to my current relationship.

It’s been eight months since I have been with my ex BPD partner, and I’ve only been with my current partner a couple of months, but I can’t tell if the feelings that I’m having are residual trauma from my previous relationship, or that perhaps my current partner is just not the best fit for me.

It doesn’t help that my current partner doesn’t believe of a lot of the ideological concepts that are important to me… I think that’s why I’m struggling.

I am a fairly progressive thinker, and she’s not. She’ll come up with all these conspiracy theories that make no sense to me, and even simple concepts she will reject when I talk about them, and then I feel invalidated and feel that the end is near.  I can’t tell if I’m looking for trouble, or if trouble already exists. I could use a objective viewpoint.

Here’s a specific example. It seems very trivial, and she says it is, but I think it shows a larger red flag.

We were talking about recycling, and I was about to put a paper bag from a local fast food place in her recycling bin when she told me that she doesn’t recycle paper. When I asked why, she told me all these reasons, none of which made much sense. At least to me. They seemed to for her.

So, I thought I would try to help clarify some of her theories and I looked on her town’s Recycling page, and it was pretty clear that the items that she was not recycling were perfectly allowable in her town. I pointed this out to her, and she still said she probably wouldn’t recycle them, and reiterated that it was because of her reasons, which I just pointed out were no longer valid. She didn’t care. She said she had the right to make any choice that she wanted, and that she does a good job recycling 98% of the time, and doesn’t care about the rest.

My perspective was… If you now know that you can recycle certain items,  then why would you not choose to do that? I told her that her insistence that she still will not likely recycle those items disrespects things that are important to me. She didn’t care. She just looked at me and told me that it’s her right to choose whatever she wants, and that’s just the way she is.

I felt hugely slighted by that, and it really struck a nerve. I told her that I thought that her attitude about it was disrespecting things that were important to me. She wasn’t getting it.

I do understand, this is a minor situation, but it really triggered me for some reason. I know if I dug deeply, it probably hits on my abandonment issues, and that if she is able to disregard things that are important to me in this small area, how many times will she disregard other things that are really important to me, and when will she finally decide enough is enough?

I hit hard enough with this issue that it could already be the end. It wouldn’t surprise me if she tells me that she just doesn’t want to continue in a situation with somebody who expects her to be a certain way. She said she thought I was a black-and-white thinker. I can’t say.  She has said in the past that she doesn’t want to feel not enough in a relationship, and I can almost assure that right now she is probably feeling not enough, based on the fact that I said some pretty curt things to her… Told her that her attitude was somewhat of a copout for not doing better with some simple things that were important to her partner.

So what’s my question? Am I self-destructing this relationship because of demons of my past…? Destroy or be destroyed?

Is it reasonable to think that if you get a handful of these kinds of contradictions that may be the red flags are valid? Could this just not be the right person for me, given some fundamental differences and ideology?

As mentioned, I can’t tell what end is up. She’s a very sweet lady, and often will do the world for me. I’m not sure I need that, but she’s been so giving and sweet and understanding. That’s really valuable.

I often wonder if our way of life, and even my sporadic attraction to her, will be enough to keep things from going off the rails.

Any thoughts would be certainly appreciated. My heart is twisted around right now.  Thank you!

[livednlearned]

It sounds like you are both competing and both want to feel right.

It's a case of "do you want to be together or do you want to be right."

How would you feel saying, "Is it ok if I recycle this? I'm really into this and it makes it easier for me to get along knowing I'm doing something that matters to me."

Or make it about how you feel vs making a point about who is more right.

"Wow. I know this is a small thing -- I feel hurt and I'm not sure where it's coming from."

If she comes back with "You're hurt! What about me?" or something similar, that will say a lot about her emotional capacity to give you what you need.

[ForeverDad]

I can’t tell what end is up. She’s a very sweet lady, and often will do the world for me. I’m not sure I need that, but she’s been so giving and sweet and understanding. That’s really valuable.

Virtually everyone on this board described their problem relationship as that at first.  Ah, but as the relationship continued — and I have recently begun conjecturing — the relationship became more and more "obligated" such as with a marriage or children, and real life set in and the the other person was more relaxed and felt able to drop the initial facade, then the relationship suffered a reality check.

We can't say how much of a red flag this is.  You might still be hyper-alerted (residual trauma) from the past relationship.  We often recommend gifting yourself time to recover and avoid a rebound relationship.  In less than a year here you are.

Would she be triggered if you suggested you'd be in change of that kitchen chore, sorting and taking out the trash?  There will always be some things wherein two people have different POVs.  This won't be the last.

[Cat Familiar]

Didn’t your previous partner also buy into conspiracy theories and have political opinions that diverged from your own?

[kells76]

Hey, glad you came back & shared an update.

Didn’t your previous partner also buy into conspiracy theories and have political opinions that diverged from your own?

I was wondering this, too.

It sounds like it is difficult (and maybe painful?) when a romantic partner hears the information you share, which to you is compelling and reality-based, and then doesn't incorporate that information in a way that shows that they too find it compelling and reality-based. If I were in your shoes, I might feel dismissed and minimized.

I'm going to go somewhere pretty direct, so let me know if you're up for it or not.

When you were a kid growing up in your family, I wonder if you had times where you felt like you didn't matter, or pointing out "what was really going on" didn't matter, or family members dismissed what you had to say or felt?

Am I self-destructing this relationship because of demons of my past…? Destroy or be destroyed?

Is it reasonable to think that if you get a handful of these kinds of contradictions that may be the red flags are valid? Could this just not be the right person for me, given some fundamental differences and ideology?

It's possible that the answers to your questions are located less in your previous romantic relationship and more in experiences you had when you were younger.

I think the "red flags" may be about how feeling/experiencing being dismissed/minimized/ignored is less about how your ex treated you and more about a core hurt inside of you.

There's a lot you like about your current partner, just as there was a lot you liked about your previous partner. I think you want to have close, meaningful, intimate relationships. As Cat Familiar noticed too, it's interesting that twice in a row you have been with partners who somehow "poke" at something that to me seems like a core hurt. If "making it work" with your partner meant looking inside yourself even further to see why it's such a big deal that she hears the words you say but doesn't change... that's a decision only you can make.

I wonder how things would go if you looked at where your hurt is coming from and why it's really important to you that people close to you treat what you have to say as important in a concrete way. This is not a bad thing, more something important to know about yourself that can help you in your romantic relationships.

I'd be curious if you're interested in going down that road.

Again, welcome back;

kells76

[ForeverDad]

When you were a kid growing up in your family, I wonder if you had times where you felt like you didn't matter, or pointing out "what was really going on" didn't matter, or family members dismissed what you had to say or felt?

It's possible that the answers to your questions are located less in your previous romantic relationship and more in experiences you had when you were younger.

This reminds me of the times I went to counseling about six months before my separation and divorce.  This created a scene because I had wanted joint sessions but my ex wrote something (never did know what) to them and the manager stepped in and interceded.  My then-spouse of 15 years refused counseling but wanted to sit in to "help" me.  They told her No.

I'm telling this story because I was so frustrated with this psychologist, for three entire sessions she probed my FOO (family of origin).  Not one suggestion on how to deal with my spouse.

Looking back, I'm sure I have some FOO issues, as in "Nice Guy but..."  On another post today I referred to classical sins of commission versus sins of omission.  I'm an omissions type of person.

Most members here drift away after their relationships are identified and addressed, why I'm still here after 16 years...?

[PeteWitsend]

...
Most members here drift away after their relationships are identified and addressed, why I'm still here after 16 years...?

Well, by helping others here, maybe you feel like you're atoning for your own mistakes in the r/s?

I know I have a lot of memories of things I wish I had handled differently with BPDxw.  particularly times she picked fights with some of my family members, and I didn't support them as I should have, and told her in no uncertain terms to back off.

[PeteWitsend]

...

So what’s my question? Am I self-destructing this relationship because of demons of my past…? Destroy or be destroyed?

Is it reasonable to think that if you get a handful of these kinds of contradictions that may be the red flags are valid? Could this just not be the right person for me, given some fundamental differences and ideology?

As mentioned, I can’t tell what end is up. She’s a very sweet lady, and often will do the world for me. I’m not sure I need that, but she’s been so giving and sweet and understanding. That’s really valuable.

I often wonder if our way of life, and even my sporadic attraction to her, will be enough to keep things from going off the rails.

Any thoughts would be certainly appreciated. My heart is twisted around right now.  Thank you!

Well, I have several thoughts here, and I also recently started a new family, post divorce from BPDxw, and have some insights (I think) in to your question about self-destruction due to lingering effects of BPD.  Maybe I should just number these:

1) regarding self-destruction - I don't know if that's what's going on, but it seems like you're trying to take  what sounds like a fair disagreement b/t you and your new GF and build that into a pattern. 

Honestly, her telling you  that she recycles what she wants and not what she doesn't, and that is that, does not sound like a BPD response.  sounds like she's clearly stating a boundary of hers, and you're the one testing it.  Maybe I'm missing more context around it? 

Now, If she starts going out of her way to throw away paper in order to provoke more conflict with you, then maybe you have an issue here...

2) Separating ideology from relationship issues - I think you have to do this, and believe me, I sympathize with your position on recycling and progressive causes generally.

I don't think any two people are going to align politically on everything.  You need to decide on what you can give on.  And I think if you want to be in a relationship, you have to be prepared to compromise. 

I like to think we can avoid letting political issues affect the home.  The political footballs that the powers that be kick around to divide us really don't matter as much as we think they do. 

THAT BEING SAID... if one partner's political identity starts affecting the relationship in a meaningful way, like donating significant money to causes or candidates, spending time on initiatives, or possibly engaging in activity that could provoke legal or social issues for you both, then you may need to dray a line.

But I don't think simple ignorance and maybe naivety about political issues from one partner is enough to justify ending a relationship with an otherwise loving and decent person.

[Mr. Kelly]

Thank you everyone… I am so appreciating the words of wisdom and insight…

I am equally impressed that many of you remembered me from my saga on here last year.  You all have so many good things to say.

Well, I think the main issue I am facing is… Why does it hit me so hard to the core that this girl openly disregard things that are important to me?

I have been thinking of that a lot over the last couple of years, with this partner and my previous one. It likely does predate any of these relationships. I grew up in a family with a very loving and dear mom… Not unlike my previous two partners, minus the likely personality disorder of my former partner… But my dad was very distant, cold & detached, sometimes nasty… While my older brother was hugely verbally aggressive and could often be a bully.  I’m sure many of my triggers are the result of this history.  It kind of triggers me even to think about these things…

So, after an exchange like the one I had regarding recycling, which is not the first discussion of this type where red flags came up, I went back-and-forth as to whether my disappointment in her was rational and valid, or whether it was triggering something much deeper. Even after thinking considerably more about it, I’m still not sure.

My current lady friend calls her self very stubborn. She even said that in regards to our recycling conversation. Notwithstanding, I do find it somewhat mystifying that a partner could hear their significant other convey new information to them that was important to them, and then literally tell them to their face that they’re not going to comply, because “that’s just not what I do“.

So, yes, I do see how issues like these are triggering my past demons… But there’s also an ethical consideration here. I can’t imagine if my partner provided me with new information that could help things be better, that I wouldn’t be all ears and willing to try it out. She pretty much told me straight out to my face that she wasn’t going to do it, despite the new information, which to me feels really disrespectful who I want to be in the world and how I want to conduct myself. I’m probably repeating myself…

I just can’t come to a consensus as to whether this kind of thing is truly a hill I want to die on, or a battle I need to take on, or whether I am looking for excuses to bail out.  I may just not be ready to take on the kind of relationship that she seems to want.  I certainly don’t feel healed, but do any of us really ever fully feel healed?

Ultimately, I’m going to just have to have the courage to make a decision. I’m not sure I have it in me to continue with this lady. Not just because of this recycling conversation, but multiple other ones, in which I thought I presented really strong compelling arguments on a topic, and she blatantly outright said she wasn’t going to change her mind on something. 

That was probably a couple of months ago, and we sat in her car, and I made the same kind of rationales that I am here, telling her… “If somebody you care about tells you something that’s important to them, and has a compelling argument as to why it is likely true, you are just going to ignore it because that’s the way you’ve always believed things to be?“. Her answer was yes. She said she had the right to believe what she wants to believe, and nothing I say is going to talk her out of it. 

She is perfectly OK with that, and lives with that. It drives me crazy to hear it. It’s like I’m supposed to believe if somebody tells me the sky is green, that it’s ok to believe it just because that’s what they always have believed, and nothing that I can tell them is going to change their mind on it. Really?  But why does that bother me so much?

It is true she has the right to believe these things… But to me it also feels almost offensive to hear someone say things like that to you and devalue the things that are important to you.

Part of me believes that she is just not that self reflective. That feels very judgmental for me to say, but that’s almost the sense I get. She doesn’t care enough to think too deeply about these kinds of things, even in light of, or perhaps even despite of, anything that might show an alternative pathway forward.

 I feel like I’m being really shallow making judgments like this. But it feels really shallow to hear her make judgments like she is. And I think it terrifies me to think that I would continue with this lady, and be constantly battling up against issues that facts won’t help unravel.  In her world, an opinion is based on gut, more than it is more on fact.  That’s a very hard rationale for me to internalize, and to sit with.

Is this the hill I want die on with her?  Clearly, it’s much more my issue than it is hers. I just don’t know. 

[PeteWitsend]

...
My current lady friend calls her self very stubborn. She even said that in regards to our recycling conversation. Notwithstanding, I do find it somewhat mystifying that a partner could hear their significant other convey new information to them that was important to them, and then literally tell them to their face that they’re not going to comply, because “that’s just not what I do“.
...

Just playing devil's advocate here: were you maybe doing something or being pushy about the conversation so she felt a need to react this way?  Because I've been in that position, where I point something out, and my partner keeps doing it (like loading the dishwasher incorrectly, even after I demonstrate why her method doesn't allow the dishes to get clean).  I could see her getting annoying if I kept bringing this up, especially if she's busy, or otherwise stressed in the moment, and saying something like that to me in response.  

What are some of the conspiracy type things she believes?  I'm curious if these are red-flags, or just run-of-the-mill stupid things some people believe.

Does she push her views on you?  

I'm wondering what the context is in some of these exchanges.  

I know I get frustrated when my partner doesn't see things my way too, but in the context of our discussions, she's 100% correct to take the position that she's entitled to her views, and doesn't like my focus or how I look at it.  I'm thinking of an example where she mentioned what a tragedy something was, and I pointed out it was years in the making & you could read articles from former officials involved in the matter warning about the consequences of it.  She brushed all that off and said all she cares about is that it's tragic for the people who died or families that lost someone.

Like... OKAY.  She's poorly informed.  And that's fine.  I'm not looking for her vote, I'm not relying on her to formulate policy here, or join my in a letter-writing campaign.  I'm just looking for a partner that is honest with me & I can love and trust, who trusts me and loves me back, and who is there by my side to help out and be part of a life together.  

If that's not what matters to you in a relationship, you'd probably be better off finding someone who shares your political views up front, and THEN see if you're compatible otherwise.  But know that narrows the potential dating pool by a lot...

[Cat Familiar]

I get the frustration about not recycling things that could easily be recycled. I feel that at times with my husband when he puts papers or magazines in the trash.

However, he is the one that takes our garbage and recyclables to the dump. I don’t know about your area, but where we live, there is much less separation of recyclable materials than there used to be.

Years ago, it was *green glass* *brown glass* *clear glass* *aluminum* *mixed metals* *paper* *cardboard* etc. Now it’s *dump it all in one dumpster* so we are skeptical that any of that is going to be recycled.

In addition, I’ve heard that the countries that used to purchase our recycled materials, such as China, are no longer doing so.

And from a male/female perspective, I would be really annoyed if a man I was dating chose to inform me that what I was doing was *wrong* and that now I was equipped with the *truth*, I should start doing it *his way*. I would probably not politely escort him out my door.

[Mr. Kelly]

And from a male/female perspective, I would be really annoyed if a man I was dating chose to inform me that what I was doing was *wrong* and that now I was equipped with the *truth*, I should start doing it *his way*. I would probably not politely escort him out my door.

That’s a very interesting statement that you are making there, Cat.

Why do you think you would be compelled to feel that way and act that way, should someone you were dating show you a different way of going about things?

I don’t think I would feel that way. I think if my lady friend came in and told me she had done some research and found out yada yada yada, I would be happy to incorporate that into what I was doing, if it made perfect sense. I don’t believe I would think twice about it.  I like that kind of stuff.

I was a public school teacher for almost 20 years, and part of my interest in doing that was to build relationships based on finding new ways and better ways of doing things, and finding out the truth about things.  That’s just the way my brain works, and my set of curiosities.

I think you are on to something, though. She did say to me after I was pushing her on this subject… “I am very stubborn “. So, I tend to think there may have been a bit of a power-play going on. A bit of a “you’re not going to tell me how to do things“ kind of thing.

That will absolutely not work for me. I think it was a tactical relationship mistake for her to challenge that situation, and in many ways our relationship, in the way that she did that day.  If it was based on a power struggle, or a struggle for control, I doubt she will find herself anything else other than single, at least with me.

My interest is not to say that it’s “my way or the highway“, which is pretty much what she stated she thought I was saying with my “black-and-white thinking”… I think it’s more that I crave to be with people that want to learn things and share information, rather than compete with each other for control.

It’s entirely possible that control inside exactly what I was trying to obtain in that conversation with her, but I am doubtful of that. If anything,  it was my way of trying to help, and also my way of trying to convince her that I am worthy of respect, due to my interest in finding out better ways to do things.

Either way, I think her strategy fails, and maybe mine does too,  because it could be said that you don’t openly tell someone that’s trying to help you that you have no interest in what they are saying, because you’re going to keep doing what you were doing anyway, but it could be equally valid that you don’t tell someone that they are doing something wrong, and then when they refuse to comply, you get bent out of shape and push them on it, which is exactly what I did.

However, I think I drew a line in the sand. She felt it important to say that she had a right to believe what she wants, and that’s OK, but I also have the right to be able to expect that the person I am with respects my opinion on things, and doesn't stick it in my face that she’s going to ignore what I am presenting as facts, and just do it anyway. I find that discourteous, and a bad way to make your partner feel validated.

I’m in the northeast US, by the way, and things are getting easier for recycling in some ways, and more difficult in others. 

Here’s another example… Prior to this conversation, she had pointed out that she noticed I was tossing soda/pop bottles in the recycling bin with their caps and rings on, and she said that she didn’t think that bottle caps were allowed on soda bottles, etc., while I knew that this policy has changed over the last few years, and told her that I had read in numerous sources that it had changed, which is why I was leaving the caps on.

Even after I had said that, she went ahead and said “well, I’m still not going to leave the caps on“. In my head I’m thinking… Why in the world would you do that? If you don’t believe what I’m telling you, look it up for yourself.  Also, if you firmly believe in something like that, why would you say something like that in front of my face, if you know it’s going to directly contradict information that I just stated I had looked up?

Grrrrrr…..

[Cat Familiar]

Mansplaining—“the explanation of something by a man, typically to a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing”

I think it’s fine to inform someone of “a different way of going about things” and leave it there, take it or leave it.

You seem to be invested in changing her way of doing things.

You say it was a “tactical relationship mistake for her to challenge” your conveyance of information. Wow! How about looking at how you conveyed this information?

We’re you trying to “help” when she wasn’t asking for help? And you say her way was “wrong.” (I wouldn’t disagree with you on that point, but it is her house, and her recycling.)

Your behavior shows a lack of respect for her and an overstepping of boundaries. It comes across as patriarchal. If this is how you want to be perceived, then fine, but lots of women these days don’t react well to that way of being.

[Mr. Kelly]

You have some valid points, Cat. Thank you.

However, I don’t think I was at all pushing her into anything, and for the most part, it was mostly just conversational… I saw her about to throw something away I had in my hand, and I just said we could recycle it… She countered with “I don’t throw away stuff like this because of blah blah blah“

I matter-of-factly countered, that I had read recently that you can recycle stuff like that for the following reasons… Blah blah blah

It was all very matter-of-fact until she said that she was going to just throw stuff like that out anyway, regardless of what I was telling her.

That’s when I became condescending and snotty. I basically said to her, “so, you are telling me that even though I tell you that a reliable source says that it’s perfectly fine to recycle that stuff that you’re just gonna do it anyway? Why would you do that?”

It wouldn’t surprise me if she believes that I was condescending and a prick, and I will own that. There’s part of me that is kind of sick of people who disregard simple things that could make our world better, just because they don’t feel like it. It gets under my skin and quite frankly, it just pisses me off. 

If someone wants to call me condescending and a prick because I feel that way, so be it, I’m OK with that and I will own it.

I do think it was a tactical mistake on her part. It shows that she’s not great with navigating complex relational issues.  I don’t think it takes a huge amount of experience understanding relationships to know that if somebody is offering you a simple gesture, as such, that you don’t just go ahead and tell them that you’re going to ignore it right to their face. That’s a mistake. I don’t think she understands the gravity that that can have in a relationship. It’s not something I would want to do, or think that I do often.

 It’s nuanced, but that’s something that I work hard at being better at.  That could be part of the reason why this kind of thing gets under my skin so much, and that is because I put so much work and effort and trying to be sensitive to the needs of others, and then something like this happens, and it doesn’t feel like she’s considering my needs at that particular moment. I think that’s a mistake.

But it is what it is. I have to think about whether I can live with these kind of interactions, because I know they’re going to continue.  She has made it pretty clear that she runs with a “I don’t care what you say I’m gonna believe what I want“ formula, which is going to continue to rub me the wrong way.

But I don’t have a crystal ball.

[formflier]

But it is what it is. I have to think about whether I can live with these kind of interactions, because I know they’re going to continue. 

Hey...big picture thing.  Do you believe that YOU...and NOT her control if these interactions happen?

The follow up question.  Do you want to learn how?

Best,

FF

[Mr. Kelly]

Hey...big picture thing.  Do you believe that YOU...and NOT her control if these interactions happen?

The follow up question.  Do you want to learn how?

Best,

FF

Nice to see you on here FF. Thanks for your thoughts.

I do completely 100,000,000% believe that it is me that controls these kinds of occurrences happen. But, no, I don’t always know how. My emotions take over, and I likely have what would be considered a mini BPD split. I do believe I have emotional difficulties that are similar to a mild BPD. I don’t have a lot of the other symptoms, but I do get out of control like this from time to time.

General update:  I spent most of the weekend with her, and although complicated, things went relatively well.

It started off with her coming over and we had a really long talk. She came over, as expected, with the intent on telling me that we should put aside the relationship part of our friendship, because she thought it just wasn’t working. I understood.

However, I talked her out of it. I felt unusually clear and stable that night, and I encouraged her to think of a lot of different things that were relevant, some related to the things we were talking about, and other things related to relationship dynamics. She was very receptive.

The rest of the weekend was nice… We did a day trip yesterday, did a bunch of different things over the weekend.

The complicated part was this… For parts of each day, I still completely wondered if I should be with her. I was looking at all of the things that just didn’t seem compatible. There are a bunch of them. They were magnified exponentially, at least in my mind. Eg… She isn’t very attractive. She is really annoying with how she has to validate every last thing she does, just so I will approve.  It goes on and on.

However, I am getting better at using what I believe to be DBT strategy… I try to take a breath, remove myself from the emotional dysregulation, and just try to enjoy myself in the moment, despite all of these feelings of negativity. It’s really hard, and it doesn’t always seem to work, but lo and behold, some of these feelings began to lessen.

By the end of the day yesterday, I was feeling very at ease with being with her, and many of my negative feelings had faded tremendously.  I feel at peace and happy that I spent time with her this weekend.

So, I’m trying not to think too hard about it, but the question that I still have that remains is… Are my feelings of negativity based on realistic observation, or borderline trauma issues?

Where is that crystal ball when I need it?

[stolencrumbs]

Nice to see you on here FF. Thanks for your thoughts.

I do completely 100,000,000% believe that it is me that controls these kinds of occurrences happen. But, no, I don’t always know how. My emotions take over, and I likely have what would be considered a mini BPD split. I do believe I have emotional difficulties that are similar to a mild BPD. I don’t have a lot of the other symptoms, but I do get out of control like this from time to time.

General update:  I spent most of the weekend with her, and although complicated, things went relatively well.

It started off with her coming over and we had a really long talk. She came over, as expected, with the intent on telling me that we should put aside the relationship part of our friendship, because she thought it just wasn’t working. I understood.

However, I talked her out of it. I felt unusually clear and stable that night, and I encouraged her to think of a lot of different things that were relevant, some related to the things we were talking about, and other things related to relationship dynamics. She was very receptive.

The rest of the weekend was nice… We did a day trip yesterday, did a bunch of different things over the weekend.

The complicated part was this… For parts of each day, I still completely wondered if I should be with her. I was looking at all of the things that just didn’t seem compatible. There are a bunch of them. They were magnified exponentially, at least in my mind. Eg… She isn’t very attractive. She is really annoying with how she has to validate every last thing she does, just so I will approve.  It goes on and on.

However, I am getting better at using what I believe to be DBT strategy… I try to take a breath, remove myself from the emotional dysregulation, and just try to enjoy myself in the moment, despite all of these feelings of negativity. It’s really hard, and it doesn’t always seem to work, but lo and behold, some of these feelings began to lessen.

By the end of the day yesterday, I was feeling very at ease with being with her, and many of my negative feelings had faded tremendously.  I feel at peace and happy that I spent time with her this weekend.

So, I’m trying not to think too hard about it, but the question that I still have that remains is… Are my feelings of negativity based on realistic observation, or borderline trauma issues?

Where is that crystal ball when I need it?

Hey Mr. Kelly,
Not to be too blunt here, but why did you talk her out of ending the relationship part of your friendship? With this person, you find a lot about her annoying and you don't find her attractive, though if you put in effort, you can manage to enjoy spending time with her. This just doesn't sound like the foundation of a lasting relationship, and I guess I am curious about why you think you spent time convincing her otherwise.

Seems like there may be other options than "realistic observation" and "borderline trauma issues." Maybe it's just how you feel about her? We don't really need a justification for not being attracted to someone or not wanting a relationship with someone. Sometimes we're just not compatible with/attracted to people. 

[Mr. Kelly]

Hey Mr. Kelly,
Not to be too blunt here, but why did you talk her out of ending the relationship part of your friendship? With this person, you find a lot about her annoying and you don't find her attractive, though if you put in effort, you can manage to enjoy spending time with her. This just doesn't sound like the foundation of a lasting relationship, and I guess I am curious about why you think you spent time convincing her otherwise.

Seems like there may be other options than "realistic observation" and "borderline trauma issues." Maybe it's just how you feel about her? We don't really need a justification for not being attracted to someone or not wanting a relationship with someone. Sometimes we're just not compatible with/attracted to people. 

Thanks for your thoughts and questions…

Well, it’s not like I premeditatedly talked her out of it… she came to her own conclusion after hearing a lot of what I had to say and after much discussion.  We had an honest conversation. I told her where I thought my negativity was coming from, and I also told her that it’s hard to say whether I’m mentally ready for this kind of relationship.

That’s very true. I can’t entirely tell whether some of the hangups that I am experiencing are true to my beliefs, or are demons that are messing with my head, and bringing on self sabotage, if you will. Sometimes I think my red flags are justified, sometimes they feel like trauma responses. It’s so hard to say. That’s why I get so confused. It literally goes from pole to pole.

It kind of doesn’t really feel fair to her, and I said that to her. She doesn’t deserve to be with somebody that is going back-and-forth, and I don’t feel proud of that. But she’s choosing to stay in the relationship, and I admire that determination in her.

[ForeverDad]

Very few members here have been able to maintain a "close but not too close" relationship with a pwBPD.  It's more like cold turkey, as in Let Go and Move On.

Actually it's akin to a man and a woman to be "just friends".  At least in my own life it's a tightrope balancing attempt because the friends aspect pulls at me to want to make it more.  That's the boy-girl attraction, nothing wrong with it but it is clearly there.

I lived through a lot of custody and parenting conflict with my ex over about 10 years before, during and after my divorce.  My son is now an adult and lives with me.  Sometimes she comes to visit him at my home.  I try not to trigger her but any real conversation can tempt her into acidic denigration or implied threats.  I think it's because she senses my boundaries have weakened.  I have to remind myself I can always ask her to leave.