Holiday debrief

[Couscous]

I'm happy to report a fairly drama-free Christmas in spite of some humorous attempts by my FOO to stir some up. My sister and father (who is spending Christmas with my mother instead of with his wife) donned their shining armor and called me up to ask me if I could say Merry Christmas to my mother. I had already communicated that I would be calling, so this was all extremely unnecessary, but they all act as if I have gone NC with her. I guess it makes for a more dramatic Christmas.  

The call went fine until the end, when she "casually" mentions that my uBPD sister wasn't there for Christmas because she was due to have her third baby any day. Of course, I was completely unaware that my sister was pregnant because my mother had not told me (all of my sisters including her have been giving silent treatment). She then proceeded to tell me all about how she's "so happy!" that my sister and her boyfriend are "doing so much better!" after the rough start to their relationship -- again, information I was unaware of. Well, I didn't take the bait. And actually, as I have been typing this it just occurred to me what she was trying to do. I think that my mother is concerned about my sister and her kids, but because my role in the family has always been "the anxious one", the one who always carried the burden of concern about my younger siblings, she was trying to dump her anxiety on to me. In other words, I have been overfunctioning for my mother and taking responsibility for things I am not responsible for, and in doing so I have been rescuing her.

I have been in a funk all day that I just wasn't able to shake off, and I just could not understand why my mother would intentionally tell me about my sister's relationship problems in order to upset me, when in actual fact, she was playing a game of emotional hot potato. Yes, she told me intentionally in order to upset me, but not out of malice. It was because it was a way for her to offload her own anxiety on to me -- and I think I actually took that hot potato from her based on my mood today. Now I need to figure out how to send it back.  

Well, I'm sure glad I was able to figure that one out!  

[zachira]

You are not alone in trying to figure out how to not take on the emotions dumped on to you by a disordered family member. What has worked for me was following a suggestion by my therapist that when in the presence of a disordered person to focus how I feel inside instead of being so observant of the other person's feelings. With a mother with difficult emotional boundaries, it can be extremely challenging because we learn to feel her feelings for her, at a very young age. Probably you are feeling badly now, because of how unexpected and hurtful the things were that your mother told you about your sister. It almost like we have to prepare ourselves ahead of time for contact with disordered people so we won't be so affected so intensely or for so long, especially when it is a close family member, (more so with a mother), and end the contact quickly before we become so overwhelmed. What kind of self care works best for you when you are stressed and feeling upset?

[Couscous]

Thanks zachira.  

For me, when it comes to major issues like this, the best self-care for me is writing out what’s bothering me here on the PSI board, as long as I can get to the root cause of what is causing my emotional reaction and then taking some kind of action to address it. But journalling could possibly have the same effect and is something I have never tried.  

The action I’m thinking of taking is broaching the topic of my sister’s repeated pregnancies, with my mother. This is probably the big “hot button” issue in my family because my sister is essentially repeating a family pattern, and I now suspect that my mother’s irresponsible marriage and multiple close pregnancies and subsequent neglect of her numerous children is what caused my grandmother to reject us, her grandkids, and then finally to disown my mother after baby number 5 or 6 was born.
 
I can see that the triangle between my grandmother, mother and her sister is replicating itself in the next generation, as I see that I am caught in a triangle between my sister and mother, with my sister in my mom’s position and me in my aunt’s.

But I think I am going to try to talk to my mother’s sister about all of this first, if she is willing to open up that can of worms, and then I think that I will also need to try to reconnect with my sister.

[Notwendy]

The action I’m thinking of taking is broaching the topic of my sister’s repeated pregnancies, with my mother. This is probably the big “hot button” issue in my family because my sister is essentially repeating a family pattern, and I now suspect that my mother’s irresponsible marriage and multiple close pregnancies and subsequent neglect of her numerous children is what caused my grandmother to reject us, her grandkids, and then finally to disown my mother after baby number 5 or 6 was born.
 

Couscous- good for you for not taking up that bait ( my BPD mother does that too, I now know the "topics" she brings up and avoid discussing them.

It sounds like you see a drama triangle with attempts to bring you in that, but now my question is: why say anything at all? From my attempts to speak to who I see as the more sensible family members about an issue, they have often backfired. Your mother is emotionally invested in your sister, even if your sister is disordered- and yet the issue you are also bringing up is something your mother has done as well.

One example of this kind of thing was assuming my father would understand why I felt I needed to have some protective boundaries with my mother. He knows how she treats us. And surely he cares about my kids. It made logical sense that he'd be able to understand. But instead, he got angry. Trying to discuss my concerns with him may have raised his own feelings about how BPD mother treated us as children and even though he tried to do what he could, we kids were subjected to her abuse. I am guessing here, but surely he had to have some feelings about this and my bringing up concerns may have elicited them.

The other question is - what good will this do? There's no controlling your sister's decisions to get pregnant. You feel it's irresponsible- and you have a right to your own judgment, but if you express this to your mother, it also may feel like you are telling her that she was irresponsible.

I find that even though certain family members appear to be the more reasonable ones, they are still a part of the family dynamics and there's emotional investment. Another option is to not say anything at all, as you may be "jumping" on the triangle and they can align in their anger at you.  

[Riv3rW0lf]

I have to admit I also wonder why you want to broach the subject with your mother, and what it is that you are hoping to gain from it?

You mentioned "as long as I can get to the root cause of what is causing my emotional reaction and then taking some kind of action to address it." But I am surprised the action you want to take is to jump in the subject itself with a disordered person? Ain't that exactly what caused the emotional reaction in the first place?

I personally think there is no wrong way to react emotionally to something, and my own way forward when I am triggered is like you to 1) find the root cause; 2) offer myself self compassion and self care (including writing on here), and 3) find the boundary I need to put in place to stay safe and get back in control of my self (usually require some kind of emotional distancing). Any wants to involve my disordered family members is usually me entering Savior position on the triangle. No matter how detached I am, no matter the objective I think I have in mind, in the end, at the very base of this desire to engage, is little riverwolf playing Savior and looking for validation.

I was also trained to worry for my brother, to carry him emotionally, to support my father in his guilt and feelings of powerlessness... Last time my father tried to recruit me, I told him, point blank : "Now that I have children, I understand the situation you are in better and I have empathy for you and what you are going through.  But... I don't want to discuss my brother's decisions with you. I recommend you talking with your wife about it. It was never my role to take care of my brother, and I'd like to stop now. It is his life. He is an adult. If he wants my advice, if he needs help, he can call me, and he knows it. Otherwise, I'd like to mind my own business."

And it actually felt incredibly good to stay out of the drama.

If my sister or brothers contact me to discuss their life and ask for inputs, I will provide it, I will try to be compassionate and helpful, but I wouldn't engage about their life with a third party anymore, nor would I engage with them because of a third party... What would be the point? To prove I have it figured out? Hope? Hope I can change something?

You know... It's ok to feel off after talking with a disordered person. Might be your sense of responsibility for your sister, might also be sadness to the effect you didn't know she was pregnant. Maybe part of you still hoped that, despite the fighting, despite the disorder, that she would have discuss something this important with you, that she would have tried to reach out, sent an olive oil. And it's ok to be hurt by the fact she didn't. You are not a marble statue, you are a human.

I often get the impression you run away from your vulnerability... Maybe because that's what I myself have done and keep doing. I truly have to stop myself to face it when I am down. I still find it hard to admit that I feel. My T once asked me why I refused to show my vulnerability to my husband, to those who support me, and I said : "because this is not how one survives in this world." ...

But it is. I forced myself to be more and more vulnerable, at least here. Wrote about my fears, my hurts, my own disordered thinking... Because it is a safe space where I could finally untangle it, where I could finally confront and meet my own shadow. And for all the crazyness I wrote about... I was met with nothing else but compassion and understanding. You even saw part of unsafe riverworlf, front row seat! And offered me your own forgiveness when I confronted myself and requested it.

It's ok to fall off our bike, and it doesn't mean an action has to be taken. Sometimes we just need to cry a bit and get back on.

Take what helps, discard the rest.

 

[Couscous]

I wasn't actually sad that I didn't know my sister was pregnant again. I was sad that yet another innocent child is going to be born into a dysfunctional family and experience childhood trauma.  

Last time my father tried to recruit me, I told him, point blank : "Now that I have children, I understand the situation you are in better and I have empathy for you and what you are going through.  But... I don't want to discuss my brother's decisions with you. I recommend you talking with your wife about it. It was never my role to take care of my brother, and I'd like to stop now. It is his life. He is an adult. If he wants my advice, if he needs help, he can call me, and he knows it. Otherwise, I'd like to mind my own business."

^^This is exactly what I want to do with my mother when I said I wanted to broach the topic of my sister's pregnancies, but I can't just tell her "I don't want to discuss my sister with you", because she has become so incredibly sneaky about how she drops these things into conversation. On the surface she appears to have no concerns about my sister and makes it appear that all she is doing is sharing some completely innocuous "news" about what's happening in her neck of the woods. She has become so adept at doing this that it normally won't hit me until hours later. My solution of first going ultra-low contact, and then asking her point-blank to not tell me anything about my siblings' personal lives, hasn't solved the problem because she told me, "people don't like to be muzzled", and then continued to email me every so often with this kind of "news".

The only option I have left is to either go complete NC with her (seems overkill) or else I can do some family of origin exploration (see link below), and attempt to engage in a dialogue with my mother about this long-standing pattern in our relationship, in which she underreacts in an extreme way and will even act happy about what is in fact, a serious problem in the family, so that I will "overreact" to the situation and express her anxiety about the situation for her. This is, by the way, a perfectly normal, human reaction on my part. It never ceases to amaze me how calm I feel when my normally very chill H gets frustrated when our kids are acting out, and conversely, how frustrated I begin to feel when he manages to stay calm.

Additionally, I can also now see that because my mother is so good at suppressing her anxiety about her kids she comes across as a completely heartless mother who doesn't give a sh*t about us, which in turn has caused all of us to feel like we are unworthy of love.

I am beginning to wonder if BPD is really nothing more than an anxiety disorder...

https://familytherapybasics.com/blog/2016/10/3/family-of-origin-exploration-for-therapists-background-and-benefits

[Riv3rW0lf]

The only option I have left is to either go complete NC with her (seems overkill) or else I can do some family of origin exploration (see link below), and attempt to engage in a dialogue with my mother about this long-standing pattern in our relationship, in which she underreacts in an extreme way and will even act happy about what is in fact, a serious problem in the family, so that I will "overreact" to the situation and express her anxiety about the situation for her. This is, by the way, a perfectly normal, human reaction on my part. It never ceases to amaze me how calm I feel when my normally very chill H gets frustrated when our kids are acting out, and conversely, how frustrated I begin to feel when he manages to stay calm.

Ho yeah, this happens here too !  

Or maybe you still have more emotional untanglement to do with your mother and sister.

I can see why your H and you would share this emotional link... What might be less "regular" is you sharing this emotional link with your mother about your sister. I've been there too with my mother, and it was often also about my brother. I would overreact and take care of him, while she could just "chill" and create more chaos between us.

I don't speak much with my mother anymore, so unsure of I still have that emotional link to be honest. But I did put very strong boundaries in place with my brother.

I do believe, in the end, that the actual knot wasn't that I was taking and acting out her emotions or lack thereof, it was that I didn't have any boundaries with him, and felt responsible for his life. But I am not.

It is sad for the child, I agree, but you cannot take responsibility for all the children in your city born in dysfunctional families... How do you not mind it for all of them? Gotta put those walls up for your sister too.

[Couscous]

How do you not mind it for all of them?

Truth be told, I do mind it.

A few months ago I was at the park and there were some Hasidic Jewish families there. One of the mothers was not supervising her toddler who looked like he was about 13 months old, and he climbed up onto a tall climbing structure, alarming two little girls who were up there who started asking where his mother was. So I walked over and took him down, and pointed to where his mother was and told him to go to her, which he did. A little later, he's back up there, and his mother was nowhere in sight. I was able to find her, and then walked over to where she was sitting with her husband and another mother, and asked her, "Is the little blond boy in the white onesie yours?" She jumped up at looked at me with fear in her eyes, thinking that something must have had happened. I told her that he was fine, but that he had been climbing on the tall climbing structure, and that I while I understood how difficult it must be to have so many little kids, she really needed to keep a closer eye on her children, and then I walked away. I didn't shame her, and tried to empathize with her, but I just could not ignore what was happening.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Truth be told, I do mind it.

A few months ago I was at the park and there were some Hasidic Jewish families there. One of the mothers was not supervising her toddler who looked like he was about 13 months old, and he climbed up onto a tall climbing structure, alarming two little girls who were up there who started asking where his mother was. So I walked over and took him down, and pointed to where his mother was and told him to go to her, which he did. A little later, he's back up there, and his mother was nowhere in sight. I was able to find her, and then walked over to where she was sitting with her husband and another mother, and asked her, "Is the little blond boy in the white onesie yours?" She jumped up at looked at me with fear in her eyes, thinking that something must have had happened. I told her that he was fine, but that he had been climbing on the tall climbing structure, and that I while I understood how difficult it must be to have so many little kids, she really needed to keep a closer eye on her children, and then I walked away. I didn't shame her, and tried to empathize with her, but I just could not ignore what was happening.

I understand, I would not have stayed idle either when a child puts himself in danger in front of me. I have also defended children before when a mother was being unfair, like calling their children bad when all I could see is a very sweet kid gently playing with my daughter, who actually listened and responded very well to requests. I would tell them so, and they'd act surprise. I know the feel.

There is however a difference between a direct interaction when facing neglect, danger and abuse, and ongoing rumination about someone else's poor decision making.

I think we all have, sometimes, this urge to save the world, to talk about the problems and solve them all during a discussion. We recognize faults in others and just wished a chance to solve them... But there is a difference between observing someone else's mistakes, and taking the emotional load of it.

For me, like I said, it was a lack of boundaries with my brother. I had to willingly distanciate myself emotionnally from his decisions and desires. Recognizing lack of boundaries with my parents was easier than with my brother, to be honest.

[Couscous]

Well yes, I am aware that I have boundary issues. You can't grow up in an enmeshed family and develop boundaries. I probably have too much of a "bleeding heart" for all of the abused children in the world, but I don't think I can completely eliminate this tendency in myself. 

But the issue I am currently dealing with is the triangle between my sister, my mother and me, and my trying to distance myself from the drama hasn't been working. There has been a lot of tension between my sister and mother since my sister was 5 years old, and she has become a black sheep because of it. But because my mother does not have the skills needed to address these issues with her, and because my sister has distanced herself from my mother, my mother is simply doing what comes naturally to most people, which is to pull in a third person and form a triangle. So my mission is to de-activate this triangle I am in with them. For the past 5 years I have not been able to speak to my mother without her bringing up my sister, and this is what I am going to address with my mother directly and try to get this out in the open.

Once I have done so, I think it will be much easier for me to point out to my mother in real time when she tries to interject something into our conversations about this sister. I don't need to build a wall (boundary), I just need to keep hitting the emotional tennis ball back onto her side of the court. I plan to ask her each and every time she mentions my sister's name, "Mom, I know that that this situation with S4 must be difficult for you, and that you probably are very worried about the kids and what is going to happen in the future, but I really have no way to be helpful." I might even add for good measure,  "And just in case you were wondering, no, I will not be able to raise her children since I already have my hands full. I trust that between you and step-father you will be able to figure out what to do, if it ever comes to that."

If I do this consistently she will probably stop bringing up my sister, and maybe she will stop contacting me, period. I will be delighted if that happens! 

Here is something about relationship triangles from the author of a book I am reading:

Most people can’t go 24 hours without activating a triangle. Triangles aren’t good or bad. They simply are an automatic reaction to stress. And the more stress you add to your day, the more likely you are to use triangles to get through it.

However, when we use triangles to manage anxiety, there is a cost. The triangle often prevents us from developing a stronger one-to-one relationship with others.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/everything-isnt-terrible/201910/25-ways-youre-using-triangles-to-manage-anxiety

[Riv3rW0lf]

One last thought..

My father also always talks to me about my brother and sister. I asked my sister recently if he did the same with her, and she said he didn't. I don't believe my father is doing this to lower his anxiety in his relationship between him and my sister, and between him and my brother... It hit me that he does this to lower his anxiety in his relationship with me. And I do think this is actually possible, even if it's not the standard triangle we often talk about here. He tries to keep me busy with them, so I don't look at him and me.

Do you make your mother anxious?

[Couscous]

My mother talks about everyone, to everyone. She is an equal opportunity triangulator. 

I think my mother is a highly anxious woman in disguise who makes everyone around her anxious because she underreacts (dissociates?) and is so "chill" all the time. She acts like she's just one of kids instead of one of the parents, without a care in the world. I now suspect that my father left because she made him so anxious because he was overcompensating for her extremely nonchalant attitude about everything, and because of how childlike she was. All of my memories of him were of how stressed he always was when he was living with us and he became a completely different person after he moved out, and then he left me to deal with it...thanks Dad! 

I cannot imagine how on earth I could possibly have gotten my younger brothers ready for school, on time, every single morning from age 8 onwards when I can hardly get anywhere on time with my two sons today as an adult. 

[Couscous]

OK, I sent my mother an email to tell her that I have noticed how often the subject of my sister comes up when we talked and then proceeded to validate how stressful it must have been for her over these last 5 years since my sister became a mother and that she must be very worried that she may end up having to become a full-time nanny to her almost three kids, which already happened with my sister's first son, but that since I had my own hands full with my boys that I just wasn't able to be helpful to her. I said I would be more than happy to chat with my sister about the trials and tribulations of motherhood, but that was all I could do, but that I trusted that she, my step-father and sister would able to come up with a fair plan should my sister ever require their assistance again.

I predict that my mother will respond to say that she's not remotely worried or concerned about my sister, and that she has no idea where I got that crazy idea from, and that I have a Mercury square Pluto conjunct Uranus in my horoscope today which explains why I would make these kinds of crazy assumptions, and I have an extremely vivid imagination, and that clearly I have a bee in my bonnet, etc., etc. I'll keep ya'll posted though.   

[Methuen]

Mom, I know that that this situation with S4 must be difficult for you, and that you probably are very worried about the kids and what is going to happen in the future…

Ask validating questions:
“Are you thinking you want to help her? OR
“What will you do to support her?” OR
“How would you like to support her?”

…instead of 

“but I really have no way to be helpful “

…because she is going to come back and spear you with that last part..  If you instead start off with your quote (which validates her feelings), and then finish with a question about what she will do, it bounces the ball back into her court.  It also delivers the message that you aren’t getting involved without expressly saying so, which would just give her ammunition to attack you…

[Methuen]

I am beginning to wonder if BPD is really nothing more than an anxiety disorder...

This is interesting.  I can see where you are coming from.

Anxious about feeling abandoned.
Anxious about not being lovable.
Anxious about not being worthy.
Anxious about…everything…rational and irrational…

Which leads to the unhealthy coping behaviors…

Which ironically leads the loved ones to need space away from the pwbpd to feel safe…

[Notwendy]

I think you have said what you felt you needed to say. How she responds is in her ballpark.

My BPD mother tends to triangulate- take one of us aside to discuss the other. I decided at one point to not participate but the boundary is on me, not her. I can't stop her from brining up the subject.

It's a distinction, it's not that I won't talk about a family member but it's on general terms. She might say " have you heard that _______got a new job?" and I would say "oh that's great I hope they like it" vs "I can't believe__________ has been unemployed, you'd think they'd try harder" and that delves into triangulation as she's sharing her judgment and rallying me to her side. Yes, she is probably anxious about them but what is going on here is using another person to manage that anxiety vs owning it. "I am worried about ________and hope they find a job soon".

Then, she tends to express her feelings at me and then repeat " don't you agree" "you agree, huh" "you'd feel like that" "don't you agree I have a right to feel that way" until you agree with her.

I can't stop her from saying what she wants to say, but I can change the subject or just let her talk and then say "uh huh". Sometimes if I try to say something, she'll snap at me "don't you dare interrupt". This is not a conversation. This is her getting her feelings out.

I did try telling her I would not discuss my father with her. Her response " how dare you tell me I can not talk about MY husband" to which I said "you can talk about your husband all you want but I won't listen to it" and I mean it. I have hung up the phone if she starts. Sometimes though when she knows there's an audience and I won't act on it, she will slip in these mean zingers. Like in front of the social worker, she'll be in her sweet little old lady act and slip something mean to me about him. That's when I go radio silent. She says these things to try to see if I react.





 

[zachira]

Both of my parents frequently would suddenly fly into a rage and then vent about certain people, especially their scapegoated siblings, saying all kinds of things that were either untrue, exagerrated, or way out of context. The last time my mother went into a rage saying she was glad my brother did not marry his girlfriend, both of whom had been dead for many years, I got up and walked away. (Mom who met the full criteria for BPD went out of her way to ruin every relationship her children had, as one of us having  a relationship meant she was being abandonned.) For years, I patiently listened to all my parents' tirades  about other people, and all it did was leave me feeling overwhelmed and confused.
I like some of the ideas members have suggested about participating in difficult converations with disordered people. I am saying that sometimes for your own wellbeing, it can be better to refuse to engage in any kind of conversation that involves triangulation and projection of overwhelming feelings on to you, and if you do choose to engage, you can shut down the conversation at any moment without any explanation.

[Couscous]

Ah, so this video explains why I was in such a funk. I was having a post-Christmas hangover induced by the video call with my FOO. I definitely didn’t see that one coming...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B9yF0s4Lphc

Interestingly, grief also came up for me even though I am not NC with them. I think this was because I realized after speaking to my youngest half-sister (who had to resist some serious peer-pressure to be able to talk to me at all — initially my mom tried to avoid handing her the phone) that I have always been distant from my much younger half-siblings. This is thanks to both my full-sister’s and mother’s possessiveness of them and rivalry with me to be their favorite relative, and the unspoken rule that forbids them from being allowed to have anything other than a “distant relative” type relationship with me. There would be hell to pay for them if they broke that rule, but hopefully some of them will break free of the dysfunction one day, so all hope isn’t necessarily lost.

I have to say that this kind of BS reminds me why I have been ultra-LC and makes me very tempted to go full on NC because I cannot envision ever being able to grow a thick enough skin that stuff like this would not bother me. I see how my mother and sister a kind of shaming tag-team, and they have been working in concert to inflict as much pain on me as possible since I woke up to the dysfunction in my family. I now think the “nice chat” with my sister before she caught her flight was a set-up to ensure I called my mom so they could do their dirty work. And my dad was in on it too. It’s all quite sick.

I would not be surprised if the sole reason my mother has for wanting to ever talk to me is so that she can boast about how popular she is with my siblings even when she is fully aware that most of them are shunning me. While I realize that that, in theory, she doesn’t have the power to hurt me, projective identification is not at all easy to resist. Her behavior is unloving whether or not she’s intentionally trying to rub it in my face (Look how much they all love meee, but nobody loves yoou, nanny nanny boo boo!) or if she’s merely projecting the shame she feels when I am not in close contact with her onto (or into) me via projective identification. (Everybody else talks to me. You’re the only one that has a problem with me, so obviously there’s something wrong with you!.

A friend recently told me that my mother sounds like a witch. I think my sister is one too. Why would someone stay in contact with a pair witches?

[Riv3rW0lf]

A friend recently told me that my mother sounds like a witch…Why would someone stay in contact with a witch?

For me, it was the habit of accepting to always be the bigger person... Which overtime becomes incredibly redondant and lead to resentment.

Dynamically speaking, I was the mother of the relationship and it's the only role I knew how to play.

It's when I finally accepted I was the daughter, and had a right to NOT be the bigger person, that I could, at last, embrace and process my rage, and finally let go of that persona...and it felt good to allow myself to be the imperfect, ungrateful daughter it wasn't to hurt her, it was to free me.

[Couscous]

For me, it was the habit of accepting to always be the bigger person... Which overtime becomes incredibly redondant and lead to resentment.

Dynamically speaking, I was the mother of the relationship and it's the only role I knew how to play.

It's when I finally accepted I was the daughter, and had a right to NOT be the bigger person, that I could, at last, embrace and process my rage, and finally let go of that persona...and it felt good to allow myself to be the imperfect, ungrateful daughter it wasn't to hurt her, it was to free me.

Yes, I think my New Year’s resolution is going to be to stop being the bigger person.  I am so looking forward to freedom! 

[Riv3rW0lf]

Thought of you yesterday. Went to "Christmas" diner at my father's place. My little sister was there. First time I meet her current boyfriend... She told me she got pregnant (she got out of an abusive relationship and into this one right away, and got pregnant a few months in the relationship). I knew she was pregnant, but didn't know the father. The guy doesn't work, smokes weed all day, I guess his parents carry him... Anyway... She decided to keep the baby. She is 22. She was back in school to get a diploma and become a midwife but that just got pushed back... doesn't even have a freaking driver license... Anyway !

Yesterday she said she was happy when she learned she was pregnant, which is how she knew she had to keep the baby... Then she basically admitted she did it on purpose (the calendar method is so very safe (!) to fill her inner void and give her life a purpose... I was as soft as I could when I told her baby could not be expected to fill this kind of void, that she needed to work on herself and take care of herself, to piece herself together...

We've had those kind of talks before, I realize now she acts like she gets it...but then she gets pregnant from a deadbeat she barely knows. I know my stepmother carried her a lot emotionally, and I've had lots of sessions with her too... I now suspect it goes in one ear and straight out the other, she craves the attention more than anything else.

Yes, I am judging her. A lot.

H said that's just where she is at, and to start distanciating myself right now from this whole thing. And I was... Until I met the guy yesterday and heard her clearly say she felt completely fusioned to this baby, that she was bored with life, and a baby was such a beautiful gift to give her something to do... I was triggered... A lot.

No idea where this is going...wondering if this is even my problem?

Didn't mean to hijack your post but, hey you are not alone with a sister who enjoys being pregnant for the status it gives her... This is my best guess here as to what happened anyway, because she expects people to take care of her now, all the while feeling resentful that her MIL,who will pay for her appartment, said she would come to rock the baby...

How did she even get there?

Needed to vent a bit...

So yeah... Turns out I don't know how to not be emotionnally triggered by this kind of situation ! I guess I am wondering if I have to take some kind of role here, or just distance myself. I think I have to stay distant. And I kinda feel like an egoist person for it... But I have a life of my own to manage...

How is it our responsibility that they don't seem to understand the consequences of their choices?

[Riv3rW0lf]

So... I thought long and hard on this...

Might be different for you.

For me, I think what keeps me emotionnally invested into what my sibblings do is competition.

Part of me feels legit empathy for them and genuinely wants to help, and this part I can control more easily. But I have an internal knot... Another part is invested and wants to know what's up and be in the loop because it enjoys seeing them fail" and being the hero without even having to try...

I asked H if I was a bad person, he said "it only makes you human".

We come from dysfunctional families, we had to fight for love and validation. It stands to reason that part of me is that cruel, unempathic being. It's my shadow side... And my shadow side is what keeps me morbidly interested, and emotionnally invested , in what happens in my sibblings lifes...

Now that I confronted it, and found that part, I think it will be much easier to control it and untangle myself emotionally from their life, and all discussions with my father.

[Couscous]

Last night I asked my H,  who is about the most non-judgmental person I have ever met, how he felt about the news of my sister's pregnancy. And he admitted that he was feeling judgmental towards her. So that was interesting.

Another part is invested and wants to know what's up and be in the loop because it enjoys seeing them fail" and being the hero without even having to try...

That's interesting. I will definitely have to think about that. My initial feeling is that because I am the eldest child and am at the top of the sibling hierarchy, and also was the Hero child, any "need" to be the hero has already been met.

What I suspect might be going on for me is that when I hear about my sister neglecting her kids, it triggers the feelings of core shame that I developed in childhood and then one of my "protector" parts gets activated, and I begin to feel intense anger towards my mother, and want to blame and shame her for having caused this mess in the first place. And then my inner critic jumps into high gear and begins shaming me for all the many ways in which I have failed my own kids, and it tells me that I am really just like my mom and that I had no business having kids and am going to ruin their lives. Fun times!  

[Couscous]

Still no reply from my mother, which is quite unusual, and I am noticing that my anxiety definitely has been piqued.

I didn't engage in drama triangle dynamics when I wrote the email, so this has probably rendered her speechless because she may be realizing that she no longer has any power over me. I will give her a few more days to see if she is able to regroup before I draw any firm conclusions, but it is possible that I am going to realize what I may have always been my worst fear, which is if I refuse to play my assigned role as her Rescuer, she will "discard" me.

But I'm actually feeling OK about that possibility. Mainly because for the first time it occurred to me that she has been angling to retire to the country where I may be living in the future, and after reading about the experiences of so many here, I do not in any way, shape or form wish to be living near her in her old age. I have had a completely false sense of security about this, because we currently live in different countries, and I have plenty of other sisters who live near her who would actually be delighted assume that role in the hope that they can finally earn the love they all desperately year for from her. But I am horrified to realize that as the eldest daughter and Hero child, that I am the one who has been groomed for the role as her caretaker, since that has been how it has been done for generations in my family. It's no wonder my parents have been fighting me so aggressively about the changes I have been making -- and have pulled out ALL of the stops to try get me to resume playing my old role.  

Wow, I feel like I may have dodged a bullet here and think I am going to be just fine. Phew!  

EDIT: While I am not saying that I do not think I have any obligation towards my mother in her old age, what I object to is being manipulated into playing this role. I am not going to be saddled with the responsibility alone and I will expect that my siblings are going to help carry the load. What I am not willing to do is to be guilted into sacrificing even more of my life for parents, while my siblings get off scot free. My life is no longer my parents' to exploit, and if my punishment for daring to break out of my role is banishment from my family, then so be it. It's a price I am willing to pay.

[Riv3rW0lf]

While I am not saying that I do not think I have any obligation towards my mother in her old age, what I object to is being manipulated into playing this role. I am not going to be saddled with the responsibility alone and I will expect that my siblings are going to help carry the load. What I am not willing to do is to be guilted into sacrificing even more of my life for parents, while my siblings get off scot free. My life is no longer my parents' to exploit, and if my punishment for daring to break out of my role is banishment from my family, then so be it. It's a price I am willing to pay.

This resonates with me. A lot.

As the only daughter, I was also expected to "take care of mom", "take care of brother 1", while brother 2 can just live free in his community and enjoy life, and brother 1, when feeling well, also don't bother with anyone else, won't call mom, and overall does his things.

And when mom is down, they both call on me : "You aren't calling mom enough!", brother 1 once told me (!). I was expected, always, to put my life on hold to take care of everyone, because I am the female. Well...   that.

I would do it willingly, if it wasn't for the constant abuse and guiltripping.

Interestingly enough, since I cut contact with mom, both brothers have NOT even stepped him for her. They just do their things, like nothing has changed, except for the odd text where they remind me how everyone is so hurt by my actions, how they all feel abandoned... Seriously? I keep hearing brother 1 don't even bother to visit mom, or will say he will visit and then not go. None of them are willing to step in to be there for her, yet I am the one "hurting everyone". Brother 1 once texted me : "I was thinking of you, we are on our way to SIL's mother's death one year anniversary." ... Seriously?

"Mom isn't that bad" ... Because they simply don't bother dealing with her, do they...

[Methuen]

for the first time it occurred to me that she has been angling to retire to the country where I may be living in the future, and after reading about the experiences of so many here, I do not in any way, shape or form wish to be living near her in her old age...Wow, I feel like I may have dodged a bullet here and think I am going to be just fine. Phew!  

If reading about the experiences of others can prevent for you what they're experiencing, that is a huge huge win. I'm a big believer in prevention of a problem, rather than always having to react.  Had I known back then what I know now, I can only hope I would have had the wisdom to do things differently including individuating, detaching, starting boundaries before I was 55 and not living this close. If you can dodge a bullet:  

Riv3rw0lf, what you described is why boundaries are a necessity for well-being.

[Methuen]

This resonates with me. A lot.

As the only daughter, I was also expected to "take care of mom", "take care of brother 1", while brother 2 can just live free in his community and enjoy life, and brother 1, when feeling well, also don't bother with anyone else, won't call mom, and overall does his things.

And when mom is down, they both call on me : "You aren't calling mom enough!", brother 1 once told me (!). I was expected, always, to put my life on hold to take care of everyone, because I am the female. Well...   that.

I couldn't agree more, and thanks for the laugh