Need help coping with undiagnosed BPD Husband’s Silent Treatment/Ultimatums

[Chercher]

Hi everyone, I have been married for 28 years. My husband has been experiencing depression and anxiety and has several BPD traits. These issues began more intensely about 15 years ago.  

I have read a lot of books about BPD, so I recognize many of these same behaviors in him.  This most current conflict has been lasting for 5 weeks, our longest conflict. It started when I brought up that I was feeling unhappy. I noticed him get defensive, start to shift the blame and create a reason to be mad at me.

Despite numerous attempts to try to have a conversation about it so we could both be heard, he shut down our communication demanding that I issue him an apology. And refused to talk to me.

I feel very resentful about the way he controls our communication and doesn’t allow for another perspective or version. Only his. I feel resentful that he refuses to carve out space in a conversation for my voice. He keeps on insisting on a version of events that is very different from my experience. 2 1/2 weeks ago, I tried to find something about what he was communicating that I could empathize with, and so I did and I apologized for how my words might have hurt him. But then he latched onto something else and something else.

It is clear to me that this is about his need to assert power over me, to force me to apologize in order to be good again. We are in a stuck cycle.

He is not being reasonable, so I am looking for advice about how to cope during this while he issues demands for apologies based on his insistence on his perspective being the only perspective. I keep setting limits saying “Stop attacking and insulting me” “Ultimatums have no place in a respectful relationship” Let’s have a conversation so we both can express our frustrations, but he remains shut down and needing to blame and verbally attack and insult me.

I am committed to make our relationship work and want to know if it is best to ignore and disconnect all communication when he starts to send attacking and blaming emails, how to respond when he insists on an apology that only considers his perspective and where he is unwilling to take responsibility for his actions. I have found that when I do find something I feel ok apologizing for, he latches onto some other reason to remain in a funk.

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[Jabiru]

Hi and welcome I know it can be frustrating when stuck in a cycle. Maybe a gentle warning if he crosses one of your limits. If it continues, then say you need some time to calm down (give a specific time, for example an hour) and step out of the room / disconnect. After that time, see if he's open to talking. For limits to work, you need to be consistent. If you waver when enforcing your limits, he won't take them seriously and they lose their purpose.

I recommend against apologizing and instead say something like "I didn't mean to make you feel that way. Tell me more" in a sympathetic tone. It shifts the focus away from you being the guilty one and instead to an empathetic and validating atmosphere. The books Stop Walking on Eggshells and Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist were immensely helpful in developing my skills to be with my uBPD wife.

Hope that helps, and keep us updated.

[Chercher]

Thank you for replying and sharing some ideas I tried setting some limits. I appreciate it.

I tried setting some limits with my undiagnosed husband BPD this evening because he is doing a lot of blame shifting and projecting. He is issuing apology demands blaming me for hurting him and refusing to communicate or talk to me until I apologize for something based on his story. He refuses to listen and it makes me so sad and resentful.now he is on to his 3rd apology demand. For the previous 2, I tried to validate his feelings and tried to find something I could apologize for, but each time, we would make a small advance and I would think I would be able to express my perspective, he shut down our communication. Thinking I was too early in trying to get back to a normal place for communication.

Here is what I texted him when he refused to talk with me tonight because I would not give him the apology he was demanding about something I did not feel comfortable apologizing for. I told him I was happy to have a conversation where we both could be heard but then texted:
:
I do not feel comfortable participating in the kind of relationship where you feel the need to issue ultimatum after ultimatum rather than communicating in a healthy respectful manner.

Ultimatums have not been part of our marriage before this, and have no place in a healthy marriage.

I also wrote:

“I can’t force you to reconnect with me if you don’t want to.

You have 100% control over the choices and decisions you make, 100% control over your behaviors and actions.

Ultimatums are made of power and a need to be in control, they are not made of love.

I accept that I can’t force you to reconnect with me or want to be with me. I am just sad that you don’t want to and that you want to give up what we have.”

Here is where I could use some help:

I am trying to find the right balance between being firm with my limits, maintaining my core values of pursuing healthy communication while finding a way to validate his hurt. I feel like I did a lot of validating for the 1st 2 apology demands, but it got us nowhere. He is still
Issuing demands.

I can see that I was short on validating here but I think that is because I had already provided an apology on the two previous apology demands in the way that I could, and I did not want to continue following into his demands for an apology when I did not feel that I did something that would deserve such an apology as he was demanding.

He remains so committed to staying in conflict instead of talking things through. This ultimatum thing is new in our 28 years of marriage so I am really unsure how to validate when I feel so much resentment toward him for denying me my voice in a conversation.

[kells76]

Hi Chercher;

Some members do experience their partners escalating behavior in response to a new limit or boundary, so I'm curious if the limits you tried setting the other evening were "new" or "new-er"? One way that the escalation is described is as an Extinction Burst:

The term extinction burst describes the phenomena of behavior temporarily getting worse, not better, when the reinforcement stops.

Definitely check out the link -- I'm speculating that that's part of what you're encountering, and one of the hopeful things the thread discusses is not to be discouraged, as the extinction burst can be part of the process of changing your relational dynamic. So, your H's escalation in making ultimatums isn't necessarily a sign that "you're doing it wrong" or "it isn't working".

...

In terms of your thoughts here:

I am trying to find the right balance between being firm with my limits, maintaining my core values of pursuing healthy communication while finding a way to validate his hurt. I feel like I did a lot of validating for the 1st 2 apology demands, but it got us nowhere. He is still Issuing demands.

I can see that I was short on validating here but I think that is because I had already provided an apology on the two previous apology demands in the way that I could, and I did not want to continue following into his demands for an apology when I did not feel that I did something that would deserve such an apology as he was demanding.

He remains so committed to staying in conflict instead of talking things through. This ultimatum thing is new in our 28 years of marriage so I am really unsure how to validate when I feel so much resentment toward him for denying me my voice in a conversation.

While the pwBPD in my life isn't my spouse, what I've read from others on this board (Bettering) is that you can learn that you can "get a feel" for when a conversation/interaction is "going circular", and you can try "rescheduling" as a way to balance your own needs with hearing your partner. It could look like:

"Hey hon, I care about you and want to be at my best to listen to you. While I need to step away now, how about we keep this conversation going tomorrow over either breakfast or lunch? Just let me know which one you'd like."

This reinforces that you would like to hear your spouse's feelings, you are choosing not to keep it going now, and it's in your spouse's control to pick a time (in the near future) to continue talking. This takes the work off of you -- it's not your job to figure out if your spouse has more he wants to share, and he is in control of when to have the conversation. But he doesn't have control over if you stay in the conversation right now -- that is your choice.

Also, if he doesn't pick a time, it's not your job to keep asking him "So what do you want, when do you want to talk, you have to tell me, breakfast or lunch". Don't keep chasing -- not your responsibility. Of course, only offer time choices when you can genuinely be there! I.e., don't "hope he chooses breakfast" and schedule yourself during lunch before you know.

While that approach isn't a magic wand, some members have found it effective, because another thing it does is provide time for the pwBPD to get back to baseline. Often, after making that offer, the pwBPD won't even bring up having the conversation the next day... because they've worked through their own feelings.

Just some food for thought;

kells76

[Chercher]

Thank you, Kells for your reply. I really appreciate you sharing the link about extinction burst. I had never heard of that term before; based on that, it sounds like my husband's behavior of issuing apology ultimatums may in fact be his way of resisting my limit setting to have a respectful and healthy conversation where we both can address our feelings, and may even be a sign that my limit setting might be working to break a destructive cycle. It definitely has been very difficult to endure, but that concept does give me hope that maybe my firm limit setting is helping stop his unreasonable behaviors of issuing ultimatum after ultimatum.

I can't say that my limit setting with him is new, but his apology ultimatum/demand behavior is definitely something new coming from him. And in our 28 years of marriage, we have never had a conflict lasting 5 weeks. This time he became so convinced of his story and truth that he was unable to allow for any other perspective or experience.

He believes he is 100% right and that I am 100% wrong (total black and white thinking), so this communication shutdown and withdrawal begins. He feels so wronged and so hurt and refuses to engage in any healthy conversation because he refuses to believe that I should be allowed to express my hurt because according to him, "you hurt me, I didn't hurt you, so you have no reason to feel hurt".  He is unable to carve out space for me and my feelings during a conversation or consider the possibility that I am hurt, frustrated, and sad. So he starts issuing ultimatums because he feels so out of control, and is desperate to gain a sense of control by blaming me for everything, to help relieve him of his role and responsibility in the conflict.

Side note: during most of our previous conflicts, my husband would go through serious emotional dysregulation to the point of real escalation behaviors (emotionally abusive yelling, insulting, verbal name-calling, blaming, waking me up in the middle of the night), and has been on and off medication for depression and anxiety during the last 10 years, but his new SSRI medication now seems to be helping him regulate his emotions better (not raging, yelling, or waking me up at 2 am insisting on talking to me, etc. to the same degree), but his shut down of our communication and withdrawal behaviors have gotten a lot worse, which I believe explains why this conflict lasted for 5 weeks.

This time, he didn't lose control the way he has in the past, and as a result of better emotional regulation on his part, he didn't enter into that whole guilt/shame cycle, but his new coping mechanism became running away, avoidance, more rigidity in his thinking, more black and white thinking extremes, and shutting down our communication. So while I am happy he was more regulated emotionally during this 5 week conflict, I have had to endure his new coping mechanisms, which has been quite stressful. It is interesting how the guilt/shame cycle he used to have after escalating a conflict, actually led him to face his faults and acknowledge and apologize more readily after a conflict.

We started to make progress today to have some communication, but he just wants to sweep it under the rug, and that is something I have a hard time with. I acknowledged many of his hurt feelings, but I have been really struggling to move forward because none of my feelings have been addressed, and we haven't talked about how we can work on avoiding a similar situations in the future,  and that makes it hard for me to feel like we've had closure to be able to move on. I am worried we may have the same exact problem again, and I am not sure how I will make it through another 5 weeks of apology ultimatums.

During our previous conflicts, we have been able to communicate after things settle down and eventually we both own and acknowledge each other's feelings, so we are able to have a proper sense of closure (sometime this closure can take a week for us to get there, but this 5 week conflict is completely new for us). Feels super unsustainable and unbearable.

Distraction is the name of the game. Distress tolerance, I guess. Things that help me a ton are "noise-canceling" airpods for listening to music (and to sometimes to help block out the yelling, insulting, blaming which can really wear me down), going to see live theater, singing karaoke, listening to audiobooks and podcasts, having a nice meal out somewhere, I think breakfasts are especially soothing, and can help start the day off nicely if you are in conflict.

[2020]

A few years ago I found a book called Emotional Sensitivity and Intensity by Imi Lo. I am not sure how I heard about it; it was possibly on this forum. I ordered it online.

The very next day my partner was looking though my computer and asked what this book was. Her tone of voice was that she thought it was a joke. I became very upset and it must have caught her off guard as she said she was touched that I would buy something like this for her. She has no idea of the behind the scenes effort I go to in order to understand and help her.

The book arrived and I made no big deal about giving it to her. She sat in bed in silence and read it from cover to cover. Her response was that it was the first time she felt someone understood her. She said the book was about her. I am unsure if BPD is mentioned in the book, but it did make a big impact on my partner. Unfortunately, she tore the book in half a few weeks later and it ended up in the bin. It is a real shame. I was hoping we could get some online sessions through the author/therapist (whom I belive has experienced BPD herself). Perhaps this book might break the ice with your husband? I am hopeful that when my partner paints me white again, and the iron is cold so to speak, I will bring this up again. It is difficult, isn’t it? This leading horses to water thing…

I hope things pick up for you. Not easy seeing light at the end of the tunnel when we are in the thick of it!

[Chercher]

I am trying to learn more about radical acceptance and JADE, and how they can help me, because I have been really struggling to move forward without him first acknowledging my feelings.

He is perceiving my desire to be heard or communicate as a desire to stir up conflicts. I have communicated that my desire to be heard is healthy and a way to gain love, intimacy and peace, not intended to stir up conflicts. I sent him these texts:

“I understand you believe that my wanting to be heard and my desire for healthy communication is a desire to stir up conflicts.”

“My desire for communication is a desire to feel heard. I feel love thru understanding. That is what I desire.”

“I am using tools like communication to try to have a deep intimate and full connection with you.”

I could use some help here with people’s experiences and hopefully successes with practicing radical acceptance, and how to resist the urge to JADE. What would a healthy conversation exchange look like if I am applying radical acceptance of the fact that husband is unwilling or unable to carve out space for my voice in an healthy conversation when he is convinced that he is 100% right? How can I avoid JADE during a conflict?

It seems that the success of our marriage has been based on being able to eventually communicate our feelings and make space for each other.

So it is hard for me to accept this new reality of not having closure. I fear that if I move on without getting closure, these same types of long drawn out conflicts will keep happening. My husband with undiagnosed BPD is ultimately trying to avoid facing how his behaviors hurt me at all costs. He doesn’t want to hear me tell him why I feel hurt because it creates a ton of anxiety and anger for him and it feels so much easier to project all of his responsibility onto me, and to remain super shut down to healthy communication.

Here is what I want to text my husband, applying  radical acceptance - please let me know if you have any advice here or cautions. This concept of radical acceptance is super hard for me and new.

“Although I am hurting that we have not been able to communicate respectfully about our feelings during this conflict, I accept that as our reality; I may not like it but I cannot change that, and because I love you very much, and know what a wonderful man you are, I would like to reconnect with you and try to build things back.”

Relationships with a BPD suck up so much of our energy. It is truly crazy. Makes me see how much of a willing participant I have been and continue to be, so I will need to explore how this kind of relationship has served me over the years, and what roles I take on in my marriage as caretaker, and how that may in some very twisted.way, fuel some type of self-esteem for me.

I will conclude by expressing my appreciation for this incredibly helpful site. Such a unique and easily accessible resource that I am very grateful for. Thanks for the support everyone.

[Jabiru]

Hi again From what I've read and experienced, it's very hard for pwBPD to acknowledge other people's feelings. Their own emotional sensitivity makes it difficult to think about others. I don't know if I'd focus on making him acknowledge your feelings for now. That may come in time but would be hard to force.

He is perceiving my desire to be heard or communicate as a desire to stir up conflicts. I have communicated that my desire to be heard is healthy and a way to gain love, intimacy and peace, not intended to stir up conflicts.

It's ok to state it once, but to continue to communicate it sounds like JADE: justify / explain. Again, see my paragraph above. I know it makes sense with a "normal" person to justify or explain, but it doesn't work the same way with a pwBPD as you've seen.

He doesn’t want to hear me tell him why I feel hurt because it creates a ton of anxiety and anger for him and it feels so much easier to project all of his responsibility onto me, and to remain super shut down to healthy communication.

Bingo. That's where a support network for yourself can help so you can vent these feelings.

Relationships with a BPD suck up so much of our energy. It is truly crazy. Makes me see how much of a willing participant I have been and continue to be, so I will need to explore how this kind of relationship has served me over the years, and what roles I take on in my marriage as caretaker, and how that may in some very twisted.way, fuel some type of self-esteem for me.

Yes, and don't forget about yourself. Be gentle to yourself, practice self-care, and keep a support network for yourself of friends and family. Do what you want in your life.

[Pook075]

Hi Chercher.  If he wants an apology to reset conversations, why not just apologize?  Because it doesn't have to be, "I'm sorry I did that to you..." (when you didn't do it to begin with).  

Instead, it could be, "I'm sorry you felt hurt by what happened earlier, can we talk about it?"  Or, "I understand what you're saying and I'm sorry if what happened upset you. Can we work together to find a way to avoid this kind of misunderstanding in the future?"

You can absolutely apologize without taking blame.  What you don't want to say, however, is something like, "I'm sorry you're being selfish and have to make everything about your fragile ego."  While it may be 100% accurate, that also leads to escalation instead of your intended outcome.  The key is to validate that he's hurt...not what he's accusing you off...and then move the conversation towards a resolution.

[Chercher]

I appreciate your wisdom, insight, and support. Jabiru,  I found your comments very helpful explaining how people with BPD’s emotional sensitivity makes it too difficult for them to acknowledge another’s hurt feelings, and how the key is to communicate the information you want to say once rather than repeating the same information over and over. I definitely struggle with this, but I am trying to work on this because it only prolongs my husband with BPD’s dysregulated emotional state.

Regarding apologizing, yes, it was challenging at first to apologize because I felt super resentful of his ultimatums and refusal to have a respectful and healthy conversation about what had happened to address both of our frustrations and hurt feelings. I was able to apologize for how I hurt him, which was important, and it helped for a bit, but we kept getting stuck because I could not accept him not letting me have a chance to be heard. It seemed so unfair. Now I realize that he simply didn’t want me to be able to talk to justify and explain anything. So he blocked it however he could block it. This is when I tried to apply Radical Acceptance of our reality, and that was huge. Probably the hardest part for me during this conflict because it meant letting go of this idea that I could  somehow convince him that it was reasonable and fair for him to listen to my experience and my frustrations.
.
When my husband with BPD is not in a heightened or escalated emotional state, he is capable of being very empathetic. I think that is why it becomes so challenging because those “wise mind” behaviors are nowhere to be found during a conflict, and I know the empathy and kindness he is capable of providing.

This is a good reminder that the key to making our journey with our partners with BPD more enjoyable is to de-escalate potential tensions before they begin to get crazy, and to be very aware when a pullback might be necessary to avoid increased tensions. My responses can sometimes contribute to escalating a situation, so being more mindful of this during a conflict is key.    I have to remind myself to respond in ways to avoid  making things worse than they already are. The book called “The High Conflict Couple”  really helped me understand this. Not always easy for us to put into practice, but if we can’t make things immediately better, we have more control to not make things worse.

Up until this morning, my husband”s splitting was making me feel crazy. We have never been in conflict this long (almost 5-6 weeks) and I think this may have been the first time I observed prolonged periods of splitting. So scary to feel so rejected and pushed away. I think what finally helped was not continuing to insist with efforts to fix things. I let some time pass from yesterday without much contact at all, and this morning, he finally had his guard down and we were able to cuddle, cry, smile and hold each other. I felt a huge weight lift off me. I am just trying to enjoy it for now, and to move slowly back, to build back our connection. I am mindful of how quickly things could slide as we reconnect. Feeling grateful about some recent skills and tools I’ve learned here to help me.  I am convinced this support gave me the strength to get through these last weeks of crazy.

Thanks to everyone for their support - I really appreciate this.

[Chercher]

Hi everyone,

Things with my husband (undiagnosed BPD) were going okay (not awful, not amazing, but so much better than before) for the last 12 days. We went on a short 4 day getaway, which we desperately needed after the last 6 weeks of crazy splitting, ultimatums, etc.

Admittedly, we got to that place of “peace” because I had to “give up” on the idea that he was going to make space in a conversation for me to be heard. I had to radically accept that he was not going to be able to let me express my hurt and frustrations, that he wasn’t capable of listening to me to share my perspective.

I am struggling with how unfair that still feels to me. I think I had shared that my husband began taking an SSRI medication because he was feeling pretty depressed and anxious, and would escalate and often rage if he felt wronged or hurt or if he perceived some type of injustice toward him. He would spend days often weeks in a heightened state of emotional dysregulation. He would have a very difficult time de-escalating, and then would feel awful about what he had said and how he had behaved and would enter a cycle of shame regarding his behavior. When he reached that calmer, wiser mind state, we would be able to talk about what had happened, and we would be able to both have an opportunity to be heard.

Now, fast forward to today, the medication is definitely helping him avoid raging and reaching those same levels of total dysregulation, which has been great from the standpoint that I feel less afraid, fearful of him storming into our bedroom to wake me up at 3 am screaming and yelling and demanding that we talk. Or threatening suicide or saying very mean and hurtful things. His behaviors now are definitely calmer, which has been nice. He still may yell and say some nasty things but it is definitely not at the same level. So that part is positive.

I am happy for him to that he doesn’t go to these crazy extremes and then feel like total crap because I imagine that the amount of shame he feels when he is calmer must feel absolutely awful.

But here is where I find myself struggling now. Because I know that he doesn’t rage and act out to that same degree, he never reaches the place in our cycle where he feels badly or that he needs to be held accountable for anything he does or says. He no longer reaches the point in our conflict cycle where he feels that he needs to listen to me express my feelings or frustrations or my perspective, and that feels absolutely infuriating that he was capable of this level of communication when he was unmedicated, and now that he is medicated, he no longer sees any reason to take responsibility for how he might have hurt me with something he said or did. So there is literally no space for my feelings anymore.

I am struggling because I know what he was capable of doing before. And now that empathy and willingness to listen have just disappeared, as if the medication is shutting down his capacity for feeling responsible or for feeling sensitive.

I am wondering if any of you have experienced something similar and if you have any suggestions on how to frame this new reality for myself because it literally feels so frustrating that he is not able to make space for my feelings anymore. It almost feels like he can hurt me, and not be held responsible for having hurt me, and that I just have to accept it. What kind of relationship is that? It feels so unhealthy to accept this reality. What can I tell myself in those moments to remind me or help
understand this reality?

I want that full emotional and physical connection with him, but I realize that the emotional intimacy and connection can only happen for me if I feel heard and understood. Now I even feel resentful of the medication on some level for stripping him of his empathy and willingness to listen. It is such a mixed blessing.

Thank you for listening - I really appreciate it.

 

[Pook075]

I want that full emotional and physical connection with him, but I realize that the emotional intimacy and connection can only happen for me if I feel heard and understood. Now I even feel resentful of the medication on some level for stripping him of his empathy and willingness to listen. It is such a mixed blessing.

Thank you for listening - I really appreciate it.

Thanks for sharing, you have some really deep insight here that I personally hadn't fully realized in my own situation.  I've been separated for 9 months now and looking back, my wife became super distant and detached the final 4-6 weeks at home.  Around that same time when our relationship started to change, her depression medication was increased and she stopped being able to show empathy towards me.  I wondered back then if there was a direct link but never fully thought it through like you did, so thank you for that.

I can also empathize with the position you're currently in.  For several months, I thought to myself, "If only I could get her to come back home so we could talk things out and repair our relationship."  But what good is that if I'm the only one showing love and my feelings don't matter?  Why would anyone hope for that?  I keep thinking that I could 'change her' but we all know that's a lie we tell ourselves; only the pwBPD can make those changes.

For your situation, I wish I had better advice since I was in that same position for years without admitting it.  Would marriage counseling be an option?  Or maybe talking with a friend/relative that your husband looks up to (paints white)?  The answer here is for him to experience self-discovery and change his outlook on your relationship, but that probably can't come from you directly. 

As others have said, the best thing you can do for now is create some healthy boundaries and learn how to communicate on his wavelength.  Don't walk on eggshells since that only encourages bad behavior.  I do wish you luck though and know that the community here is always around to support you however we can.

[Chercher]

Thank you Pook, I appreciate your support and understanding regarding how medication could reduce our partner’s level of or capacity for providing empathy. I also appreciate your reminder about setting healthy boundaries.

Unfortunately my undiagnosed husband with BPD and I remain stuck on some level because he continues to push back against my sorry not being “sincere enough” from the last conflict that happened 8 weeks ago. It brings us back to the boundaries I set about how we are 2 different people allowed to have different opinions, beliefs, and feelings. So he is resisting by continuing to blame me for trying to express a different perspective. It seems he is threatened by me not sharing his perspective. We had moved beyond this for about 12 days and then he said something that hurt me and I brought it up to him, hoping he would own it and acknowledge it, and before I knew it, we had reverted back to the conflict from 8 weeks ago with him refusing to accept anything else except full agreement with his perspective. He used to be capable of owning things. Empathizing has been pretty challenging for him but he used to be able to take responsibility.

I am struggling to figure out how to simultaneously set boundaries (which feels like a form of self-respect and is a bit easier for me) while also “radically accepting” the reality of my husband not being able to carve out space for me (which feels like I am giving up too much of myself and my core value of pursuing healthy communication). These 2 important tools (setting boundaries and radical acceptance) seem to be a bit contradictory for me. Can anyone help me learn how to reconcile them? Or help me reframe it?

Thanks for your help!

[Pook075]

Thank you Pook, I appreciate your support and understanding regarding how medication could impact our partner’s level of or capacity for providing empathy. I also appreciate your reminder about setting healthy boundaries.

Unfortunately my undiagnosed husband with BPD and I remain stuck on some level because he continues to push back against my sorry not being “sincere enough” from the last conflict that happened 8 weeks ago. It brings us back to the boundaries I set about how we are 2 different people allowed to have different opinions, beliefs, and feelings. So he is resisting by continuing to blame me for trying to express a different perspective. It seems he is threatened by me not sharing his perspective. We had moved beyond this for about 12 days and then he said something that hurt me and I brought it up to him, hoping he would own it and acknowledge it, and before I knew it, we had reverted back to the conflict from 8 weeks ago with him refusing to accept anything else except full agreement with his perspective. He used to be capable of owning things. Empathizing has been pretty challenging for him but he used to be able to take responsibility.

I am struggling to figure out how to simultaneously set boundaries (which feels like a form of self-respect and is a bit easier for me) while also “radically accepting” the reality of my husband not being able to carve out space for me (which feels like I am giving up too much of myself and my core value of pursuing healthy communication). These 2 important tools (setting boundaries and radical acceptance) seem to be a bit contradictory for me. Can anyone help me learn how to reconcile them? Or help me reframe it?

Thanks for your help!

You and I could literally switch places in our marriages because our stories are so eerily similar.  I'm no expert by any means on boundaries & radical acceptance, but I've had a good bit of practice since my daughter and wife are BPD. 

My go-to opening for both of them when things are going sideways is something like, "I understand why you'd feel <name the feeling> over <name the situation>.  I can see how that would be <name the emotion again>."  Then I shut up.  I just mirror what they say but also try to take it down a few levels.  If they're at a 6 in intensity, I respond at a 4.

They'll reply, and if they've calmed down some then I might mirror their next statement as well and add my intentions.  The focus stays on me though, "I said/did that because..."  This would be inserting a boundary like, "When I hear <whatever>, I respond with <whatever> because it makes me feel <emotion>." 

Keep it about you though, the blame game never works because it makes them feel shame and just brings on another undesirable statement about you.  And if you're still met with strong resistance or things start to escalate, just go with something like, "I don't want to upset you further so I'm going to step away for a few minutes so we can clear our heads."

With my kid, this works 70-80% of the time and my point eventually gets across.  With my wife, it works maybe 30-40% of the time if I can avoid being sucked into the blame game, which I'm still lousy at.  The more outrageous the accusation, the more likely I'll say something stupid and start world war 3.  But that's life and that's okay, this is a learning process and it doesn't come natural for any of us.

I hope that helps a little!  I'm rooting for you.

[Chercher]

Thanks for those helpful validation examples. That is very positive that they are so effective with your daughter.

I find that I am still struggling with and trying to figure out how to practice radical acceptance of my situation while setting boundaries based on my values of wanting healthy communication. Setting boundaries feels easier because it is a form of self-respect, but “radically accepting” the reality of my husband not being able to carve out space for me seems like the absolute opposite of self-respect. One honors my values and the other in some ways feel like I am being forced to toss my values aside.

I realize that radical acceptance is something I was able to do temporarily to reconnect on some level with my husband, but then it started to unravel because I started thinking about how unfair it was to have to ignore my feelings for the comfort of my husband. Again, this is new for me in our 28 years of marriage because before my husband began taking this new SSRI medication, I would eventually be able to express my feelings and be heard. He was able to take more responsibility and even say he was sorry. Now it seems that the medication has wiped out his capacity to listen and try to validate my feelings. His patience has gone way down with allowing for a conversation.

I am looking for suggestions and guidance on how to reconcile these 2 seemingly contradictory concepts of radical acceptance and setting boundaries.

Thank you very much for your help!

[Chercher]

I wanted to provide an update, and share some tools that have been helpful for me to get back to a place of connection with my husband, in hopes that they may also help some of you as well.

First, as part of my “self-care” to bide my time while being split black by my undiagnosed husband with BPD, I have spent a lot of time during these last 8-9 weeks really trying to educate myself about BPD. I had never heard of the terms “splitting”, the acronym JADE, radical acceptance, or about the deep emotional wounds of abandonment some people with BPD experience.

This site has been extremely helpful to me in a few ways. It made me feel heard when posting, and during the time I was being split black by my husband, and my husband was not able to carve out space in a conversation for my voice or my feelings, I felt grateful to have a community of people who understand and get it. Grateful for the skilled moderators who understand how to validate, empathize, teach and hold space for so many people here.

Many of us experience the same cycles with our partners, and just knowing that has made me feel safe posting and sharing my story.

If you have been pushed away by your partner with BPD, and have experienced being “split black”, are feeling frustrated, overwhelmed, deeply hurt, hopeless, confused, then please consider learning as much as you can about BPD using the tools listed on this site, reading through other people’s experiences on “Bettering”, reading books like “The High Conflict Couple”, “How to Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissistic Personality”, etc.

Second, I have had to constantly remind myself that no matter how bad the situation has been over the last 28 years of our marriage, I cannot control anything about what my husband feels, does or says. I can only control my response, how I choose to respond and my attitude or course of action. Realizing this and focusing on this, has made me feel more empowered in some of the chaos.

Third, as part of my self care, I reached out to a close friend for support, and she helped me consider seeking out a good therapist who specializes in Dialectical Behavior Therapy and works extensively with people with BPD. I figured that by seeking out a specialist who truly understands BPD and uses DBT (considered to be the most effective form of therapy), I could learn more about BPD, and learn DBT tools to help me. At first, I was worried it would be too expensive because I wasn’t sure she accepted insurance, but I learned her rates for people paying out of pocket were more affordable. Many therapists in the U.S. will offer a sliding scale for people with less income, so be sure to ask.

In one session with this therapist, she helped me take a look at how my current responses to my husband were loving and kind, but that I was saying too much to my husband.

She encouraged to give one or two word responses to help bring the emotional temperature down. She helped me understand that it isn’t that my husband with BPD doesn’t want to listen, it is that he can’t listen when his emotional state is so heightened. By providing shorter replies like “Ok”, “Ok, I hear you”, “Ok, I understand”, I would be able to help lower the emotional temperature. THIS TECHNIQUE WAS SO HELPFUL! After a couple of days of providing shorter replies, my husband’s emotional state improved because those “Ok, I hear you” replies were enough to help him feel validated.

The last thing that also helped me a great deal was trying to read this Blog called Beautiful BPD by a woman who blogs about her BPD Journey and Recovery. I was inspired by a quote I read there “Difficult Roads Lead to Beautiful Destinations”. I even texted the image of that to my husband when trying to reconnect and lower the emotional temperature and it helped him frame things differently to see some positive amidst all the negative. I even wrote my husband a text while I was split black that was inspired by a lot of what this blogger expressed.  

In case this can help any of you: this is what I texted my husband before I learned about the effectiveness of providing shorter replies (LOL):

“I am sorry you are hurting so much.

Please consider reminding yourself that I am human just like you and everyone else. I may sometimes hurt or disappoint you. I may sometimes be frustrated with you. You will sometimes be frustrated with me. That’s okay. That’s normal.    

Please remember that we may express feelings of hurt and anger and frustration towards one another and still feel love / like each other. It doesn’t need to be all or none. All in or all out. Please be mindful that both feelings in us can coexist.

Please remember that I can make mistakes and cause you to feel hurt over something I’ve said or done, and still have a positive impact on your life, and that is helpful to think about loving and supporting qualities you have experienced from me.

Remind yourself that you can get through this painful and hurtful time if you communicate your feelings in an objective way, without blaming, attacking, belittling, insulting.

Remind yourself to refrain from acting / dwelling on your negative thoughts & feelings.

It is healthy to take a break from your worries, doubts and thoughts and to consider the other more positive side of things to try to gain a more balanced view.

I have my share of faults, but I am not the awful person you have painted me to be.”

This text allowed him to become more aware of his black and white thinking.

He responded with “You are not an awful person. You are very sweet many times” which showed me that my text was helpful (thanks to Beautiful BPD) in getting him to see how viewing things from an  all or none perspective isn’t reality based.

Self-care (doing things I love and enjoy, taking care of myself with nutrition, exercise, sleep), reading books on BPD and DBT, reaching out to a friend for support, finding a therapist who specializes in BPD (if you are in the U.S., Psychology Today has an amazing list of therapists with good filters for finding someone with BPD expertise), using shorter and simpler validating replies when interacting with our loved ones with BPD, have really helped during this very Rocky and difficult road.

I hope you find some of these tools useful as well. I feel very appreciative and grateful for this community and the  “Bettering” Board, and for everything I have learned about BPD and will continue learning.

I feel hopeful again after a long and difficult road.

[Pook075]

That was beautiful, thanks so much for sharing that.  I read the text part three times and it really resonated that we can all do better to express ourselves.  Thank you!