Holiday over, now to plan mother’s visit…

[thankful person]

Well we got through the holiday, some of which was enjoyable. It didn’t save our marriage (of course). Some of the time my wife was again seriously telling me she wants me to “leave” the marriage and our home. Because I have killed her being and her sex drive by not giving her the sex life she craves. I’ve made her suffer for years. Any advances on holiday were met with accusations of me using her or feeling forced. But then she’s like, “if you move out then you can come round and see the kids whenever you like. You can come round every day if you like. You might even want to see me…” I like the idea of moving out but I know it would affect any future custody issues. Anyway we can’t afford it and the silly thing is I’m currently staying in the spare room which is up for rent so it would actually make more sense to just “split up” and I stay here and be the lodger but can also continue helping with the kids. Of course bpdw is not interested in that.

My wife told me that she has texted my brother inviting him and his family over on a particular date and if they can’t make that date then we are too busy so we won’t be able to see them until after Christmas. Apparently she doesn’t like visitors at Christmas but of course that doesn’t apply to her family. Anyway I let that one go because my brother is very busy so it may not work out but anyway he makes little effort with me (funnily he has a controlling wife).

I tested the waters by asking, “what are you thinking about my Mum visiting?” “I don’t know…” Deafening silence for a long long time. “I was thinking of inviting her in the new year because we’re so busy this year… she still makes no effort with me. She doesn’t know anything about me or what I’m about. She’s made no effort to get to know me.”

So here’s the thing. We are not talking about my mother staying here and sleeping in the house. That has never happened or been discussed (although my wife’s mother stays of course). My Mum last came up here September (it’s a five hour journey). She stayed in a hotel and was basically invited here for a few hours in the morning  to see the kids (with wife’s agreement). Then Mum and I would go out for lunch which wife was very jealous of and then Mum would spend the evening alone. She was in the hotel about 3 nights I think. Mum was very happy with the arrangement actually and I loved getting to spend some time alone with her even though I knew it would seriously dysregulate my wife.

So it’s been suggested to me that I wouldn’t need my wife’s “permission” if my mother wasn’t entering our home. I understand that. The problem is with the kids. They are 3, 2, and 8 months. The youngest (who has never met Mum) is still breast feeding so my wife would never allow me to take him. The older two I could take out but I don’t see how I can do this without my wife’s agreement as she potentially would shout and scream and physically prevent me from leaving (she is much stronger than me). I would also need to borrow my wife’s car as she has the car seats (even though legally it is actually my car, we call it hers).

So how can I possibly plan my Mum’s visit?

Do I tell my wife that I am going to invite Mum up but say, “I understand that you don’t want her in our house, but I would like her to see the children…” ?

Do I invite Mum up before telling my wife about it? (This is hard because I rarely get to speak to her when my wife’s not around, even when I’m driving to work bpdw phones me constantly.) I’m not sure my Mum would like the idea that she’s coming against my wife’s wishes, especially because my Mum doesn’t like conflict.

When my statement to my wife is met with, “you have betrayed me and you have no respect for my wishes... our marriage is over”  how do I respond to that? I expect she would even come out with, “all the effort you put in on holiday, I was actually starting to love you again and now you’ve ruined everything!”

Finally, say my mother does come up, how on earth can I arrange for her to see the kids against my wife’s wishes? I know my wife is a bully and she rules by fear and I see especially my eldest getting scared by all the shouting and I wish the kids didn’t have to be involved. In the past I’ve tried discussing sensitive issues when the children aren’t around, but my wife will still wait ‘til they’re back and start shouting about it.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Notwendy]

Taking a wide range view of this- your wife's premise isn't reasonable. "OK your mother can only visit on the 29th of February during a leap year and only when there's a full moon and she has to stand three feet from the door and can stay for 2.5 minutes" So, do you plan this visit around these contingencies or think the whole thing, all of it, is unreasonable.

Your wife doesn't own all of your house and she doesn't own the children. These are shared. You have a say in it too. Yes, she may get angry if you plan the visit. First though, you need to believe you can plan this visit.

[thankful person]

Thank you not Wendy. You are absolutely right, it is crazy that we bow down to such a person. I don’t want to be weak and I’m just thinking about how best to go about it.

[tranch]

First off, I know you're dealing with many things, not just your mom's visit. But I'd suggest you tackle just one thing at a time, starting with the more immediate visit you'd like to plan with your mom.

This is very hard. We moved just 2.5 hours from my family and 1.5 from hers, but we see them much less often than I thought. It's been several years since we moved. Turns out that even just a day trip to travel to one of these places is incredibly draining to her, and the expected triggers and just stress of it all make it probable that she's driving home angry.

I've had a similar tough time planning times for family to come visit us. My parents tried it recently, and 2 nights was way too much. My wife was in our room most of the day on the second day and didn't say bye the next morning. Maybe 1 would have worked. Anyway, I hear you and it's tough!

You said something interesting "I would like her [your mom] to see the children." Since your wife already isn't too fond of your mom and maybe vice versa, I'd suggest you focus on the children (without using them as an excuse). You might as well avoid saying what you want "for your mom" if you can just as easily say, "I'd like the children to be able see and get to know their grandma, and I'd like to see my mom."

If you know how volatile she is, I'd also avoid saying, "my mom's coming [and that's that]" if you don't have to. Could you try to start by laying out some details and try to get her buy-in? It sounds like you're already part of the way there with some good ideas. Having your mom stay at a hotel may make the whole thing more feasible. You could include some of this in laying out your "proposal" to your wife. What else would you like to get out of the trip, for example, would you like your mom to be able to come over one day for a meal? Your wife probably won't like being left alone for a few days, so how can you work her into the plans or even plan for some of that time for your mom to have alone time (which it sounds like she enjoys anyway), and for you to spend a normal evening with your wife/family?

As far as you taking all the kids, could you split it up? Take the 2 and 3 yr olds one day and the baby another day? Your wife might enjoy the break and it'd be more feasible for you and your mom.

Best of luck. One thing at a time. ;)

[thankful person]

Hi tranch,

Thank you for your support and ideas. Great suggestion to word it, “I’d like the children to see and get to know Granny and I’d like to see my Mum” (I shall learn it in advance!)

I know that first step is making it clear to my wife that this is happening (without springing it on her as a pre planned secretive thing…) I’m just trying to work out best how but you’ve certainly given me some ideas, thank you. My mother doesn’t like to intrude so while she’d be happy to stay here if she was welcome, there is a pattern of “difficult” people in our family which includes my father. In fact my father fell out with my ex so they always used to stay in a hotel to see me then too.

I’ll let you know how it goes when I’m brave enough to act on these feelings…

[tranch]

Best of luck and I hope it goes well for you.

My mom originally was more protective of me, but now I see her understanding the situation and kind of doing what she needs to do in order to keep up contact with us. I hate to have them stay in a hotel when we have the space and I would like to maximize our time together when they're here, BUT if all parties can't handle that...I guess it's good to be realistic.

It's frustrating though that our options are so limited.

[Notwendy]

On the topic of hotels- my parents stayed in hotels when they visited- which made sense when we were just starting out and didn't have extra room but eventually we had a house with an extra room and I invited them to stay there. At the time, I didn't know about BPD. I knew my mother had issues, but didn't know why. I was still expecting "normal" behavior. My in laws stayed with us, so assumed my parents would.

It didn't go very well. After a short time, they were bickering and announced they were going to a hotel. I was upset, thinking - did I do something? Do they not like the house? That was my usual response- thinking something was "wrong" that I did- but it was not about me, it was the situation with my mother.

I wonder now if it was just overwhelming to her? I noticed this when we stayed with them as well. Eventually I learned about BPD. I began to stay at a hotel when I visited. I didn't say anything to my parents, I just did it. It just didn't work well for us to be around each other all that time. I needed to have time to myself- and I think my mother does too.

We rarely had visitors when we were kids and when we did- my BPD mother held it together socially. We've seen this - their social persona. I think that takes concentration for them. They may not be able to tolerate long social time. I also shortened my visits. BPD mother has not been pleased with the boundaries, but it's something I felt I needed to do.

To follow up on Tranch's post- it may be that the staying in a hotel and/or short visits are managed better. It's a bit harder when there's distance to travel. If someone is an hour away, it's possible to meet for the afternoon. A long trip would require a hotel stay.