We broke up

[Pricklypickle]

Context: I met an amazing undiagnosed BPD woman 8 months ago, switched jobs and moved to her country 4 months after meeting. She quickly lost interest in sex. Within 1-2 months of living together she would refuse to engage in anything sexual. I read books and realized she has BPD, I learned to stop walking on eggshells in order to improve our interactions and time spent together. I learned to stop rationalizing her behaviors and start standing up for my needs and wants.

This led me to decide that without any form of physical intimacy, our relationship cannot continue.

It's been a week since I declared that to her. Since then we've had some painful back and forth. I was incredulous to see that she completely turned the relationship negotiations on their back - the only conclusion to which she could agree is that I'm not good enough as a carer and provider and a man, and that if I agree to work on changing myself then I might be able to earn her respect again (implying that once she respects me again she might be intimate with me again).
It's painfully obvious that there was no truth in this, because she's cycled through many different types complaints about my character. There's nothing I need to change in myself as a person, because she'll always have a complaint and a reason to be unable to respect me.

She opened up to me a lot about sex since we started talking about breakup. She said it happened to her in every relationship - she is initially attracted and excited and therefore able to have sex, and after a matter of months she finds herself having zero desire. She described early-relationship sex as a very quick and short-lived pleasure born from excitement. The sexual act starts, and then it's over before she even knows it. When that initial excitement is not there anymore, she just cannot enjoy sex for what it is. It's undesirable, painfully slow, and feels like torture. She also said that she's never been to pleasure herself on her own, so it's no surprise she can't enjoy sex for the act of sex.

When I announced that it's over for good, I braced for the oncoming anger and insults, based on what I'd read on these forums. I sat silently as she came up with lots of different reasons why it's so good not to be with me anymore. During our relationship she's been able to find ways to hurt me very badly with words, and she knows many of my weak spots. Surprisingly, during this post-breakup barrage, the insults were very mild, and nothing truly hurtful was said. She eventually stopped and said "I'm sorry. Soon I will go back to normal". I asked her what she meant and she said "Soon it will pass and I won't be mean to you anymore. I always do this after breakups".

I was very touched by her unexpected compassion, and also her self awareness. She has been diagnosed with bipolar and wasn't aware of having BPD, but in fact in the beginning of our relationship she warned me of many things that are BPD symptoms and not BP symptoms. For example, she told me that there will be times when she'll tell me that she doesn't love me, and she'll believe it herself, and I'll have to be able to bear it.

I will admit that these final conversations moved me a lot. We have not been able to converse in such an open and honest way since the honeymoon phase. Since then, it was always about blame games, and it was impossible to ever discuss anything truthfully.

She also seemed to be embracing the idea that she has BPD, and said she would be down to start TFP therapy.

She said she had really looked forward to Christmas again, which we spent with my family last year. That made me tear up. I said I was really looking forward to spending her birthday with her - because I met her just after her birthday passed. She said she was also looking forward to spending it not in tears, for once.

Emotionally, I am torn by this. I can't help thinking that maybe I could just lower my expectations for closeness and intimacy and continue being with this amazing, fun, and authentic woman. I would enjoy the glimmers of thankfulness and appreciation that come from her every once in a while (sounds very unhealthy I know). I think that she has quite impressive self awareness, and her bpd symptoms are admittedly not that bad (no cheating, no spending, no self-harm - just the rage, emptiness, splits, etc). I would really love to see her progress in therapy, I think it could be an amazing journey of growth. I want to believe in the beautiful things that can happen when you stick by someone all the way through.

On the other hand, on a rational level I know that these rare moments of openness, cooperation, and sharing only happened because of the breakup. If we get back together, I'm certain that things will very quickly go back to blame games and "her vs me" mentality. Sex and intimacy won't magically return. I will go back to being upset, disappointed, and anxious. Therapy would take a very long time to start bearing fruits, and as they say to non-BPD partners: if you're not sure you can commit, don't commit at all. I'm sad but I feel that my ability to stand up for my needs came too little and too late.

She said I could fight for her if I loved her. She said we could've at least gone to a couples therapist before putting an end to it, since we had talked about it before. In my heart, I knew that a couples therapist would be of no help. The real issue in our relationship is that I can't be a caretaker and be in a BPD relationship.

In true BPD fashion, my girlfriend was the one always mentioning breakup and finding better partners since early on in our relationship. It always made me very anxious. I was always on edge, thinking she doesn't love me, that I'm not good enough for her, and that she might get up and leave.

Also in true BPD fashion, I realize that even though it clearly felt like she was the one who checked out of the relationship and gave up on me, and I was just the one who had to make it official, I realize that's not the case either. In the end, she is the one who is not good enough for me, and I am the breaker-upper. These threats she'd always come up with, these words that made me feel I'm not good enough and she'll leave me eventually, this "upper hand" she had - it's a surprise to no one, but it was all fake - a show, a defense mechanism. In the end her insecurity is real, she truly does not feel good enough for anyone, and by breaking up with her, I became the Nth proof in her life that she is broken and deficient and she's not good enough for any other human. Sad stuff. Thanks for reading.

[Pricklypickle]

Could couples' therapy possibly have done anything?
Surely the therapist would quickly see that my girlfriend's "lack of respect" for me due to my "shortcomings" and lack of ability to provide and care for her will never be resolved because my girlfriend will always find new shortcomings in me and new ways in which she thinks I'm unable to care or provide for her.
At this point maybe the therapist will see through the issues and recognize that my girlfriend needs BPD treatment, which might trigger her to feel unfairly targeted and betrayed by the couples' therapist.

Does couples therapy ever do anything for BPD couples, or can improvement only come from
1) the pwBPD's willingness to treat their BPD
2) the non-BPD's acceptance of what the pwBPD can and cannot provide in the relationship, as well as the practice of techniques such as not walking on eggshells, using SET-UP communication, etc.

Wondering what your thoughts are.

[capecodling]

On the other hand, on a rational level I know that these rare moments of authenticity and sharing only happened because of the breakup. If we get back together, I'm certain that things will very quickly go back to blame games and "her vs me". Sex and intimacy won't magically return, and I will go back to being upset, disappointed, and anxious. Therapy would take a very long time to start bearing fruits, and as they say to non-BPD partners: if you're not sure you can commit, don't commit at all. I'm sad but I feel that my ability to stand up for my needs came too little and too late.

this paragraph really summed up what I was thinking, as I was reading the first part of your message. I think this is exactly what would happen if you did another recycle with her. Sometimes we need to see for ourselves, because when you finally put your foot down and were ready to leave her she returned to some of the same behavior from the honeymoon phase which originally is what locked you in. this is essentially the same thing as love bombing, a manipulation tactic to get you to stay. You sound pretty self aware, I found myself agreeing with most of your other conclusions. One thing that jumped out was, where are you said you didn’t have anything to work on yourself . I know what you mean. When you say this, the BPD had you convinced everything was 100% your fault, and you are saying that isn’t the case. But taking your comment out of context, one thing, the BPD relationship shows us is our weak points. Those things we really need to work on for the next relationship, even if that relationship is with a non-BPD, which, hopefully it is . This experience can teach us that we are rescuers drawn to unwell people.

[Collaguazo]

This led me to decide that without any form of physical intimacy, our relationship cannot continue.

It's been a week since I declared that to her. Since then we've had some painful back and forth. I was incredulous to see that she completely turned the relationship negotiations on their back - the only conclusion to which she could agree is that I'm not good enough as a carer and provider and a man, and that if I agree to work on changing myself then I might be able to earn her respect again (implying that once she respects me again she might be intimate with me again).
It's painfully obvious that there was no truth in this, because she's cycled through many different types complaints about my character. There's nothing I need to change in myself as a person, because she'll always have a complaint and a reason to be unable to respect me.

Hi Pricklypickle,

The same happened to me. She would say that she no longer admires and respects me so she has zero attraction for me. And that it was all my fault because, as you say, I am not man enough.

Sex was amazing at the beginning but later on I realized she was unable to have any real intimacy. Sex felt like a transaction  and another manipulation tactic.

I broke up with her 3 weeks ago and I am still conflicted as you are. I also like to think that with therapy she could get much better and being with her during this path would be amazing because once you understand BPD you know most of her behaviors are driven by an intense pain and suffering she has. Also, BPD are not mean people per se, they can be very empathetic, enthusiastic, and sensitive to other people needs. For example my ex, whenever I got sick, she was right there taking care of me.

She could also show self awareness at times. Like: “sorry I got so upset and said those things, its just that I am so afraid to lose you and love so much that I don’t know how to handle my negative emotions”

However, all of these things give us the false illusion that we can help them. The reality is that BPD is a serious condition and unless it is treated during the teen years, it’s very difficult that a person can make a full recovery. My psychiatrist works with BPDs and tells me they are extremely difficult because they are very confrontational and usually lack the commitment for a long term treatment. He even told me that there is a recurring “joke” about BPDs within the international psychiatric community that the best treatment is getting them a one way ticket to Afghanistan or North Korea.

I am also extremely sad because I know deep down there is a wonderful girl but I also know I am not capable of enduring the bad times and eventually my mental health and well being is gonna get destroyed.

After one of her numerous break up threats I decided it was time to leave and stopped all contact with her. She was furious, tried to call me more than 20 times, came to my place to try and talk and later sent me lengthy texts saying I am a horrible person, that she hates me, that I never loved or cared about her, etc.

It hurts and I do feel a bit guilty for ending everything so abruptly but I think, given the nature of BPDs, it was the only way to really stop the cycle.

[GlennT]

AMEN, and forever hold your peace.

[babyducks]

Does couples therapy ever do anything for BPD couples, or can improvement only come from
1) the pwBPD's willingness to treat their BPD
2) the non-BPD's acceptance of what the pwBPD can and cannot provide in the relationship, as well as the practice of techniques such as not walking on eggshells, using SET-UP communication, etc.

When I met my Ex she was in treatment, compliant with medication, dedicated to therapy weekly, aware of her mental health challenges and working to improve them.  She had been for years.   Her diagnosis was Bipolar 1 comorbid with ~something else~ on the Cluster B spectrum.   She was very comfortable talking about her Bipolar 1 diagnosis, not comfortable discussing the other, which I assume to be BPD.   She had a very strong mental health team, a psychiatrist, a psychologist, and a mental health nurse.    We soon added another psychologist as a couple's counselor.

My experience was the psychologist who saw us both together soon made the situation worse.   my Ex quit the couples counseling pretty rapidly.   I continued on alone, which was a great help to me.  I learned the tools that are discussed here, how to validate, how to communicate with SET and DEARMAN and the like.  I think I got pretty good at them to be honest.   Still the relationship was fraught with challenges and lots of emotional turmoil.   

I would say the relationship was so stressed that it didn't take much to push it passed the breaking point.    Which came when her psychiatrist changed his practice and no longer took my Ex's insurance, and my mother entered her final illness.    I seriously underestimated what changing her psychiatrist would do to my Ex's stability.    and I was seriously consumed with my mother's final days.

from my experience, I would suggest that treatment is not a guarantee of improvement. It offers the opportunity for improvement, but I would say a whole bunch of conditions have to be perfectly met for improvements to stick.   Even with treatment and medication my Ex could and did become psychotic, the medication only partially controlled the bipolar mania.  From what my Ex told me, she was improved, prior to treatment she could only sustain a relationship for about 6 months before it ended catastrophically.    With us, we made it four years.   and no one ended up homeless, suicidal or in the hospital when we parted.

BPD exists on a spectrum.   Progress is not linear.   Improvement does not mean going back to the idealization honeymoon stage that was so intoxicating in the beginning of our relationships.

my two cents.
'ducks

[capecodling]

With us, we made it four years.   and no one ended up homeless, suicidal or in the hospital when we parted.

I just about fell out of my chair when I read this message because of the similarities to mine, she had bipolar and BPD, she ended up homeless a month or so after our first breakup, then in the hospital after our last one.  I didn’t find out about either until some time afterwards when I made the mistake of checking my spam folder for blocked messages.  It really pulled at the heart strings for me when I found out.