Possible to stay friends?

[bluebutterflies]

Hi all, here is some context before I share. Tl;dr: My ex husband and I were together for 5 years ldr, married for 1 year, the quiet BPD (undiagnosed) symptoms got bigger and bigger to the point where I went to a women's shelter and we got divorced two months ago. We have no kids, he is a European, and we lived in Denmark together.

After a crisis where he went to the hospital, which is where I went to see him and said I wanted a divorce, we divorced amicably and tried to stay friends. I stayed for a few more weeks at the women's shelter and then moved back home to the states.

Coming back home let me be out of that bubble that was the women's shelter. I went from texting him everyday, helping him find resources, to being more busy back at home. He would have minor freakouts when I wouldnt respond and I was very clear with what I tolerate and what I don't. All in all, he was very apologetic, understanding, and empathetic. He was still the person I loved and the reason I fell in love with him.

He took two weeks off to sell all of the furniture in the apt and in general do a lot of work. Finally he moved back home. He texted me today and in it included a "I miss you". I panicked and while I tried to stay emotional, I did include something about how we can't talk too often which made him panick.

Now the conversation is him spiraling, we're miscommunication a ton because it seems like he's trying to misunderstand me on purpose. We're fine and we managed to find a point where we are figuring out an in between. But these cycles of miscommunication are exhausting.

Can we stay friends at all? Is it better to cut contact? Any advise for me?

[once removed]

generally speaking, it is possible to be friends with an ex, whether theyre an ex spouse, or an ex partner. it is also fairly rare, and when it happens, it is usually after a period of space and healing.

I did include something about how we can't talk too often which made him panick.

having said that, do you want to be friends with him? i dont get the impression that you do; or is it that you want space before you feel that can occur?

[Notwendy]

I think you are seeing that this "friend" relationship is emotionally draining for you.

Consider that friendship is a type of relationship and so, a disorder that affects relationships will affect all relationships. Friendship requires the same qualities as a romantic relationship: honesty, trust, communication, mutual support. I think they also require an investment in both people to keep it going.

Personally, I don't think it's possible for two people to "be friends" soon after something as hurtful as a romantic break up as I think this impedes the emotional recovery. Every contact would be like opening up the emotional hurts all over again. I also think if it were possible for two people to be friends later, it would take exceptional skill at managing their own feelings to do so and this is not a skill that people with BPD have.

One of my clues to when a friendship may not be feasible is how I feel when in contact with this person and feeling emotionally drained is a big one for me. The other is if I somehow feel guilt or obligation about the friendship and find myself agreeing to things I don't really want to do, because I feel obligated somehow. Doing so would cross the line to emotional caretaking.

It may be that contact between the two of you isn't in either of your best interests. You are not obligated to "be friends" with anyone. While your ex may blame you or say you are "not being nice" by discontinuing the friendship- that is his view of things. It may be that it's the kinder thing to do for both of you.

[bluebutterflies]

I want to be amicable, is my goal. I would not want to talk often, but if he thinks of something I like, he can send it to me, if I think of something he likes, I can send it to him. We can talk about a movie we saw and liked, but not for an extended period of time.

Yes I think that we are too soon out of the breakup. I definitely still am caretaking him by reading this self help book together and caretaking him after the divorce. He had no one to talk to and I felt too much empathy and FOG. But now, I just want to move on. So my goal now is to slowly distance myself and hopefully he will understand and do the same. You are right that I do feel emotionally drained, as much as I do still care for him.

What I mostly am concerned about is feeling safe. As I mentioned in my other thread, he had made jokes during the period when I was in a women's shelter, about me feeling safe and saying things like *trigger* "Why would you meet someone who's unsafe to be around? I might murder you and chop you up or something right?" and another time "...we decide if it's even possible to move forward or we go our separate ways. Or maybe I'll skin you, make lingerie, wear it and dance around on a field..."

I'm still having PTSD from these comments + that destroying pillow incident. Otherwise I don't have indication of any harm from him, especially as I am in the US and he is in Europe. But I guess I'm trying to assess risk.

My friend says that I may feel safer after not talking as much and she doesn't see any risk in terms of him actually doing anything. I guess I just want reassurance that he won't do anything—I've been trying to get statistics and just researching but it may be making me feel worse.

[lookingforpen]

Hello blue butterfly...

I have ended a 6mo relationship with my girlfriend, whom I think had BPD. What we had wasn't as traumatic as what you've had - there was no violence or threat of violence.

I have avoided contact, although she has reached a few times. I have always answered cordially, which I think makes her feel hurt.

I miss her myself, I was and am very fond of her. I feel alone, and I do miss her.

In her last contact, she said: "By your lack of response, it seems like you don't want to talk much to me. But I'm here open, if you see anything you'd like to share you can send it to me, I'm open for friendship".

I am conflicted - I do miss her; but I also fear her and fear for her. My reasoning is that I must do (a) what is best for her; and (b) what is best for me.

I think it is best for her and it is best for me to avoid too much contact. Her wounds are wide open, and I won't be helping her to move on if we stay in touch. If I had any hope of getting back together, this would be different - but when I reflect on the reasons why I broke up, I am skeptical of us making it back together, and it working.

So, what would be the point? When I know that I might be feeding in her a hope of we going somewhere that I am not really willing to go?

Sometimes, loneliness and need make me want to talk to her again. But I resist.

In your own case, there is an additional thing, which is, you ex-husband makes you fearful. That does not seem to be a settting that is fertile for friendship.

[hankmorgan]

Hi bluebutterflies,

Joking or not, those are some disturbing comments. If he is joking, is it his goal to make you as uncomfortable as possible?

Of course you can be amicable and cordial.

But if you're asking, Can the two of you have a meaningful relationship? Then I'd ask, Can the two of you resolve conflict in a healthy and productive way? If you can't do the latter, then you probably can't have the former.

[Notwendy]

Understandably, you wish to stay amicable and talk once in a while. Sometimes it may be possible if the decision to break up was a mutual one. This one was emotionally difficult and also involved abuse.

You may be expecting too much from yourself - or him. Although you may feel it's good for him ( or you, or both) to be on friendly terms, it may also be that contact for each of you is like opening the sadness again, or for you, the PTSD fear. Contact might prolong the emotional recovery for both of you.

It's also significant that you don't feel safe. Your primary responsibility is your safety- both physical and emotional. In this case, it may be in your best interest to not have contact with him. It may also be in his best interest to not have contact with you, as it allows him to let the relationship go as well.

I would follow a DV counselor's recommendation for how to cut contact. I think it's better to not announce it to him. You are already at a distance. It may be best to stop responding at all or to respond less, or even to change your number.

[Journey Within]

My two cents regarding me and my ex...Our breakup would always be volatile, except when he cheated and was already with someone new.  He would then start calling texting about 2 weeks to a month later and talk about how lonely he was, how everything was falling apart in his life, he had no friends or family reaching out to him etc.

 I would feel bad and start talking to him as a friend. His life would then totally spiral out of control (This happened every year & we were together for almost 8) he would beg me to come back, meanwhile my life was great.  My health issues went away, I was actually able to be very productive, my mood was positive, etc.

 I would let him back as "friends", he would break me down and love bomb me and we would try again and again always with the same result. I would become sick all the time, miserable, depressed, exhausted, unproductive.  Personally I think unless the person with BPD has had years of DBT therapy etc. they will always bring you down. It is sad because they cause their own loneliness and we love them, but they cause our demise. It is heartbreaking all around. 

[MeandThee29]

I'm very picky with who is close to me, and no, my ex is not at all a friend. I don't trust him and believe his mental health issues remain entirely untreated.

I naively thought we could remain in contact, but he quickly escalates and still views me as the enemy who blew up his life. That's ironic given that he was the one who moved away and initiated the divorce, but so it goes.

Among my divorced friends, a few came to a point of peace where they watched each other's dogs when they went on vacation and the like, but not until years had passed.

[Turkish]

I have a "sick and twisted" sense of humor as my therapist observed, but those comments to you are beyond the pale. If you were my sister, daughter or friend and you told me that, I'd be like, "what the ?

You ended up in a shelter because of him.

You're thankfully separated geographically.

This threat assessment might help for some perspective.

MOSAIC

Tell me what you think.

[bluebutterflies]

Thank you all for your insight. I've been on break—sometimes not being here helps me heal and move on.

I think my last few conversations with him somehow got too emotional and he got the sense that I didn't want to stay in contact anymore. Thus he sent me a goodbye message and wished me a nice life. So I suppose that is that, and I can now move on. It has been much more peaceful since then and I agree that there is no way for us to be friends. It was a nice idea at the time and a good coping mechanism through processing the divorce, but it is clear it was causing more damage to me than good.

[Cat Familiar]

It sounds like you’ve been weighing the benefits and costs of trying to maintain a friendship. With comments like he’s made, I’d think the costs are pretty weighty.

[Concerned_4_kids]

After ending 15 year marriage with undiagnosed BPD wife, I thought we could co-parent like most people. I thought we could interact regarding the kids bests interests. I was in denial.

If not for our 3 kids I would have ZERO connection with her. This isn't about animosity, this is about self preservation, understanding myself and my needs and healing (so my children can have at least one parent looking out for their best interests.) Only being on a court-mandated app I am daily harassed, diagnosed, threatened, manipulated, it goes on and on. I do not interact. I do not respond (unless it's strictly about the kids and doesn't include abusive bombs in the message.) My friends, relatives and associates are also targeted when she can't get to me. She calls the cops, social workers, whoever will listen to her (a small and dwindling list I might add) to get me to continue to interact with her on ANY level.

Do you want that in your life? Fire will burn you every time, how many times does one need to be burned before they realize this? It took me many years, it caused much damage. I am forever changed. You have created a path to exit, and it sounds like you did so for good reasons.

Fire burns every time.

[SinisterComplex]

If you have to think about the topic too much and ask if you should be friends with someone or maintain a friendship with someone you already have your answer. It's a big flashing sign of NO. If it's a maybe it's a NO. Save your time and energy for people who matter. No person is worth the mental anguish and fatigue you are putting yourself through.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-