Future prospects?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately.  I have been with my uBPD partner for just over four years now.  In that time we've been on the verge of breaking up MANY times.  Sometimes from her, sometimes from me, and sometimes both.  To say that it has been a roller coaster of an experience is putting it mildly.  Thanks to my current counselor I've come across this potential explanation and the support of this site.  This has been a god send.  In the past six months my relationship has gone from constant crisis to small manageable tremors.

I'm feeling much more positive and that I have some leverage over how our relationship plays out.  I realize that I have more work to do but the tools that I've tried are working.

She and I are now making more long term plans.  Part of me is excited but part of me is nervous and scared that I'm making a bad choice.  We are talking about moving several states away to go for a more quite lifestyle.  Currently living in a large metro area and we are both burned out by all the congestion and commuting.  She is very interested in moving to a place that's much less congested.  It's actually near my family of origin and where I grew up.  I'm excited about the prospect.  But my work sort of requires that I be in a metro area unless I can get permission to work remotely, which is possible.  Ideally, we'll move and I can find remote work with my company or another that is in line with my career.  Otherwise I'll need to pursue work in the area which may be a big change and may not even be in my field.  She's said that she really needs to work part time.  I've observed that and agree.  She can work in a very focused way for 5 to 6 hours a day and then needs to be done.  Her current work doesn't allow for that, which is part of the reason she's interested in moving and transitioning out of her current line of work.

She has a 12 year old from her previous marriage.  The custody is currently half and half during the week.  But I have no idea how this will play out when we move.  She's said that it will work itself out, which I think is a mistake.  She gets very dysregulated when he leaves to go back to his father.  And, she can't be away from him for long periods.  She's even told me that I can't be away from her for more than two nights.

This could all work out but I could also see this completely falling apart and having her blame me for it.  We are talking about going in half and half on purchasing a house.  If we break up we would likely have to sell the house to settle things.  I'm thinking I should contact a family lawyer in the area to discuss the situation without her knowing, just to understand my risk.  We are not married and I'm not sure how the law would handle a case like this.

I've done my best to tell her that my biggest fear is what will happen with her relationship with her son.  I don't feel like she's really trying to sort this out with her ex before the move.  She's expecting that her son and ex will fight so much that he'll want to be with us more.  This may be true since her son seems to be displaying some ODD behavior and really struggles with his emotions.

I've been feeling very optimistic lately but understand her behavior can easily put me in a bad place where I lash out.  This is a huge step and I want for it to be OK but also think I need to protect myself.

I'm not sure I'm looking for any real advice here but needed to get this on "paper" for my own benefit.  I'll gladly take any comments or advice folks have.  I'm hoping for a long loving relationship with her but it's a lot of work!  I see some folks on this board who have had long relationships and it seems like this can sometimes work out, but sometimes not.

[usagi]

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately.  I have been with my uBPD partner for just over four years now.  In that time we've been on the verge of breaking up MANY times.  Sometimes from her, sometimes from me, and sometimes both.  To say that it has been a roller coaster of an experience is putting it mildly.  Thanks to my current counselor I've come across this potential explanation and the support of this site.  This has been a god send.  In the past six months my relationship has gone from constant crisis to small manageable tremors.

I'm feeling much more positive and that I have some leverage over how our relationship plays out.  I realize that I have more work to do but the tools that I've tried are working.

She and I are now making more long term plans.  Part of me is excited but part of me is nervous and scared that I'm making a bad choice.  We are talking about moving several states away to go for a more quite lifestyle.  Currently living in a large metro area and we are both burned out by all the congestion and commuting.  She is very interested in moving to a place that's much less congested.  It's actually near my family of origin and where I grew up.  I'm excited about the prospect.  But my work sort of requires that I be in a metro area unless I can get permission to work remotely, which is possible.  Ideally, we'll move and I can find remote work with my company or another that is in line with my career.  Otherwise I'll need to pursue work in the area which may be a big change and may not even be in my field.  She's said that she really needs to work part time.  I've observed that and agree.  She can work in a very focused way for 5 to 6 hours a day and then needs to be done.  Her current work doesn't allow for that, which is part of the reason she's interested in moving and transitioning out of her current line of work.

She has a 12 year old from her previous marriage.  The custody is currently half and half during the week.  But I have no idea how this will play out when we move.  She's said that it will work itself out, which I think is a mistake.  She gets very dysregulated when he leaves to go back to his father.  And, she can't be away from him for long periods.  She's even told me that I can't be away from her for more than two nights.

This could all work out but I could also see this completely falling apart and having her blame me for it.  We are talking about going in half and half on purchasing a house.  If we break up we would likely have to sell the house to settle things.  I'm thinking I should contact a family lawyer in the area to discuss the situation without her knowing, just to understand my risk.  We are not married and I'm not sure how the law would handle a case like this.

I've done my best to tell her that my biggest fear is what will happen with her relationship with her son.  I don't feel like she's really trying to sort this out with her ex before the move.  She's expecting that her son and ex will fight so much that he'll want to be with us more.  This may be true since her son seems to be displaying some ODD behavior and really struggles with his emotions.

I've been feeling very optimistic lately but understand her behavior can easily put me in a bad place where I lash out.  This is a huge step and I want for it to be OK but also think I need to protect myself.

I'm not sure I'm looking for any real advice here but needed to get this on "paper" for my own benefit.  I'll gladly take any comments or advice folks have.  I'm hoping for a long loving relationship with her but it's a lot of work!  I see some folks on this board who have had long relationships and it seems like this can sometimes work out, but sometimes not.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Pook075]

Question- would you marry this woman?  Or maybe I should ask a different way, why are you considering a major life change if you're not married to her?  Could be something to think about.

Also, the law varies by state on property rights, and you probably won't have as much recourse as boyfriend/girlfriend.  But even if you were married, you'd have to divide assets in the case you split up so it's pretty much the same thing.  Either you'd sell the home, or someone would have to buy the other one out.

[usagi]

Hi Pook075!

Thanks for the response.  I've actually proposed to her several times.  It's become a bit of a running joke.  She doesn't want to get married because she doesn't want the government involved in our relationship.  I'm agnostic.  I'm more concerned that I have a committed partner than having a certain legal status with her.  Marriage would provide certain financial and legal benefits but nothing that I really need.  I'm once divorced too and so am OK with not being married =)

We've essentially been living as a married couple for the past three + years.

I'm going to check in with some attorney in the new state just to make sure I'm up on the law.  I actually think it would be more likely that I'd end the relationship rather than her but again I'm feeling very positive and so don't see that as being a high probability.  She has threatened to leave many times but has always come back with apologies in hand.  But who knows...

[HurtAndTired]

This could potentially be a good move for you, especially moving closer to your FOO (family of origin). However, I would caution you about a few things.

Moving to a new location often seems like it will be a solution to our problems, but our problems have a way of following us. I have seen this with alcoholics and/or addicts who move only to find themselves back in the same situation all over again. As the saying goes, no matter where you go...there you are. My uBPDw is a runner and she often fantasizes about going somewhere else and starting over. Be careful that this is not a wish-fulfillment fantasy for your uBPD partner.


I don't know what the specific laws are in your state, but in mine, it is illegal to move a kid more than 150 miles away from a co-parent without that parent's permission via a legal document. A parent using a kid as leverage is never okay. My stepson's dad is a real POS, but he is still his dad. Although he is grown and out of the house, I would never let my uBPDw speak a negative word about her ex in front of her son when he was younger, and I am very proud that I stood firm on that. It went a long way to making me someone who my stepson could respect and look up to. Tread very carefully here. Your instinct to be very worried about this is right and you should be listening to it. A kid needs both of their parents and should never be pressured to choose.


My advice is that you continue your plans, but place specific boxes for you both to check off before you can proceed. Those would be that she has permission from the kid's dad (freely given and not manipulated out of him) with a mutually agreed upon visitation plan in writing and signed, you both have a job lined up and ready to go, and you have picked out and agreed upon a specific house or apartment to move to. If your partner is serious about this, then they should have no problems following these very reasonable, common-sense preparations for a big move like this. However, if this is a "run-away from my miserable life" fantasy a-la-BPD, they will not want to check those boxes.

[usagi]

Thanks for the advice HurtAndTired.

I am cautiously optimistic.  The boxes make sense.  I've been working on getting those in place.  I have been very clear with my partner about my concerns.  Fortunately our income won't need to be nearly as much if we make this move because we would buy a house outright with our savings.

Something I'm coming to realize is that she can't work full time.  I need to be in a position to work a job that let's me be the primary income generator for the house.  So I'm sort of pretending that I'm doing this on my own.

This is a tactic I've adopted after my divorce.  I try to make decisions for myself that I'd be OK with if I were single and living alone.

I can only push so hard on the custody issue unfortunately.  Her relationship with her son is a trigger point for her and she's very protective of it, as she should be.

[HurtAndTired]

I completely understand about the custody issue being a sensitive one and a trigger point for your SO. As a stepparent, my job was a thankless and difficult one and there were definitely limits on how much sway I had when the child was not biologically my own. However, I want to reiterate that moving out of state with your SO's child without the dad's full and freely given blessing is an absolute deal breaker legally (and ethically). If your SO wants her and her son to come with you on this move, this issue must be taken care of.

Some background on my situation and how it relates to yours. My stepson is now grown and on his own, but I came into his life when he was around the age of your SO's child. My uBPDw (partner at the time) told me no end of details about what a real jerk her ex was. I had no idea at the time that she had BPD or even what BPD was. Looking back, even though I know that much of what she said about him was true, I wonder how much she left out or exaggerated. I have seen her at her worst and I know it takes two to tango. Long story short, my stepson needed to be with his father and I am glad that she never tried to take him away from him physically. While he might not be "dad of the year" he is still my stepson's father and biologically half of him. That matters. Devaluing the father is devaluing half of the child.

My wife and her ex are not on speaking terms, so neither am I, but the payoff for me has been that my stepson calls me when he really needs help rather than his dad. This is because I have proven over the years that I am dependable, that I care, and that I will always be there for him. I could never have had the relationship that I have with him if I had not pushed my wife to not badmouth her ex and facilitate a positive relationship between my stepson and his father as much as possible. If you see yourself having a long-term future with this woman and being a stepparent to this child, treating the biological father with respect and making sure that he has full access to his child will go a long way to ensuring that you will have that kind of positive relationship with your stepson.

[usagi]

Thanks again HurtAndTired.

This is some good perspective.  For the most part, my partner and her ex get along well.  He's a pretty nice guy but they both have different values and he wasn't able to meet her emotional needs at all.  Her son it a great kid but has his own struggles with what seems to be oppositional defiant disorder.  This makes my relationship with him difficult.  We do get along but struggle at times.  All I try to do is be a good role model and point out to him when his emotions are high so he can focus on getting them under control.

The ex knows about our plans and isn't opposed to him living out of state.  It's really the amount of time apart that I'm worried about.  They currently have a half time schedule.  We can't be flying him back and forth every week so that clearly won't work out.  They have been talking about it but haven't really come to any firm agreement.

She does talk very negatively about him sometimes and he picks up on that and mirrors it.  I don't feel like its my place to get involved in that conversation since I don't know him well and I know it'll just trigger her if it looks like I'm taking the ex's side.

When I feel like she's able to have these conversations I try to bring this up.  Unfortunately every time I do she says that her ex will get burnt out on having him around and will naturally want to reduce the amount of time they spend together.  I'm not so sure.

[HurtAndTired]

Thank you for more background info Usagi. It's a relief to hear that your SO and her ex are on speaking terms. This must make things much easier. I really wish that we would have had this type of communication with my stepson's dad. I also very much sympathize with not wanting to trigger your partner and feeling that saying something is not your place. I agree that as a partner it does put in you a weird position.

However, if you do end up marrying and you officially become this boy's stepdad I recommend that you put your foot down on her negative talk about her son's dad in front of him. I did this even before my wife and I got married. I just told her to never do that in front of her son because it made me very upset and that it was damaging to her son. I don't know if it was what I said or the way I said it, but I never got any pushback on it. To hear that the boy is mirroring this is really alarming. This is no doubt doing him damage and he is likely just doing it to please his mother. She is pressuring him, in effect, to put down half of himself. This is in no way shape or form healthy for that child.

I am very glad that I made that stand with my wife over my stepson years ago. Not only did it help me to build a relationship of respect with my stepson, but it prepared me for standing up to her as a co-parent. We now share a two-and-a-half-year-old son and I am in a position of being able to make tough decisions in parenting because I established my boundaries early on. Had I caved on things with my stepson, I would not have the authority to take the lead in parenting our toddler. While she is a loving mother, knowing what I now know about BPD, she is mentally/emotionally not equipped to be the primary caregiver of a young child. As the non-BPD spouse in our marriage, it is my obligation to be the voice of reason and stability for our whole family.

Best of luck to you and know that I am rooting for you and all of your family.

[usagi]

Thanks again for your insight and sharing your story HurtAndTired.

[usagi]

So last night out of the blue my partner woke me up crying.  She said she needed me to be with her.  I was sleeping in another room because I have a cold.  I followed her back to her bed and laid down.  She started telling me a story about how she's always suffered emotional abuse.  Men are always the abuser in her narratives.  As soon as she started I had a feeling this was going to turn on me and it did.  She blamed me for not talking with her ex about the custody situation.  She wants me to "fight for her" and talk with him.  I personally feel like this is a bad idea.  Getting in between her and her ex about their son could go south very quickly.  Which is why I've avoided it.  But now she's saying that I'm "weak" and "a coward" about not talking with him.  I didn't respond to those accusations and just tried to let her know that I see her suffering over this issue.

This is one of those rock/hard place issues.  If I talk with him know it'll just be because I'm reacting to her complaint.  If I don't then I'm still "weak".  I want to be supportive for her but I feel this is her issue to work out with her ex.

[HurtAndTired]

Usagi

It has been my experience that you can never go wrong by advocating on behalf of your SO's child. Rather than it being a choice forced on you to either be "weak" or "fight for her" choose a third way. Tell her that you are going to fight for her son, and part of that is that he needs to have a good and stable relationship with his father. It's not about defending dad, it's about defending the sacred relationship of a child and a parent, no matter how imperfect that parent may be. Let her work out the details on her own, she needs to own this, but be firm that you will not support anything that damages her son's relationship with his father. If this causes her to split on you, so be it. This is a hill that is worth dying on, and if you don't make a stand now it will just get worse in the future. No amount of capitulation to a pwBPD can stop them from splitting on you eventually, and by playing their games you lose a bit of yourself each time you capitulate.

If you have not yet read it, I highly recommend that you read "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life" by Margalis Fjelstad. It is all about how to lay down and enforce healthy boundaries with the pwBPD in your life. I wish I would have read this book years ago. I have finally laid down boundaries with my uBPD wife and am enforcing them for the sake of our toddler. I cannot have him growing up in an environment where he sees me abused and disrespected. I do not want that to be his template of what a normal relationship looks like. I know what a difficult position this is putting you in, but just imagine how much worse this is on her son. If you need any advice on specifics or if there is anything I can do, please feel free to reach out to me. I will be praying for you and your family. The fact that you are here and are seeking help is a clear indication that you are a good man with a good heart that wants to to the right thing. I am rooting for you!

HurtAndTired

[usagi]

Thanks for the recommendations HurtAndTired.

I haven't heard of that book before but will certainly check it out.

To me this is more about changing the arrangement of the custody.  We are considering this big move and if that happens the custody arrangement will definitely have to change.  That needs to be worked out between the two of them.

She said that she will rely on her good friend to "fight" for her.  I don't see her friend stepping into this conversation at all.  This really feels like a no win situation for me.

I hear what you are saying about trying not to talk negatively about her ex.  That's a difficult one.  She's always saying that no one fights for her.  If I start protecting her ex's view with her son it's gonna get dicey.

From my perspective I think this is more about her being upset that she doesn't have full custody.  She wanted a family full time not part time.  Now that we are talking about moving out of state, which was her idea, she's having to confront this.

[Pook075]

Thanks for the recommendations HurtAndTired.

I haven't heard of that book before but will certainly check it out.

To me this is more about changing the arrangement of the custody.  We are considering this big move and if that happens the custody arrangement will definitely have to change.  That needs to be worked out between the two of them.

She said that she will rely on her good friend to "fight" for her.  I don't see her friend stepping into this conversation at all.  This really feels like a no win situation for me.

I hear what you are saying about trying not to talk negatively about her ex.  That's a difficult one.  She's always saying that no one fights for her.  If I start protecting her ex's view with her son it's gonna get dicey.

From my perspective I think this is more about her being upset that she doesn't have full custody.  She wanted a family full time not part time.  Now that we are talking about moving out of state, which was her idea, she's having to confront this.

Don't take the ex's viewpoint- take the kid's viewpoint!  What is best for the kid is what's best for everyone.  That's how I'd go at this, telling your spouse that we have to plan this out so it goes as smoothly as possible for the kid involved....and that means talking to the father and coming to terms.

For the custody part, there's nothing you (or her) can do about that unless she wants to go back to court.

[usagi]

Thanks Pook075.

Unfortunately that's the problem.  I finally found out why she got dysregulated earlier this week.  I was sick in bed and sleeping so didn't hear the conversation.  Apparently she was talking to him about the possibility that he would spend most of his time with us after we move and only a couple of weeks away at a time.  He got very upset and yelled at her that it was unfair and that he wants to spend his time with the neighbor (best friend) and his cats at the ex's place.  Then he slammed the door and went into his room.

She really wants him to be with us.  I would too as long as we can make some time where the two of us can be together alone.

I do think this move is perhaps her wanted to get away from her stress here.

[Pook075]

Thanks Pook075.

Unfortunately that's the problem.  I finally found out why she got dysregulated earlier this week.  I was sick in bed and sleeping so didn't hear the conversation.  Apparently she was talking to him about the possibility that he would spend most of his time with us after we move and only a couple of weeks away at a time.  He got very upset and yelled at her that it was unfair and that he wants to spend his time with the neighbor (best friend) and his cats at the ex's place.  Then he slammed the door and went into his room.

She really wants him to be with us.  I would too as long as we can make some time where the two of us can be together alone.

I do think this move is perhaps her wanted to get away from her stress here.

Nobody can tell you what to do since your situation is unique and we only see a very small sliver of what you're going through.  If I were in that situation though from what you've told us so far, I would tell her that the son is more important to me at the moment since it means so much to her.  While I'd still love to move eventually, doing it without him is a deal breaker.

That would be my strategy because it's siding with what matters to her, without forcing her to choose between the kid and a dream house in another state.  And by doing that, maybe it will help her focus her opinion as well on what she really wants.

I hope that helps!

[usagi]

Thanks Pook075!  All of this is quite helpful.

I think she's gonna have to come to that conclusion on her own.  I've tried to make this point many times.  The truth is that we could purchase a house somewhere and it could turn into a summer/vacation place that we eventually move into.  Lots of ways this could play out.

Thanks everyone!

[Pook075]

Thanks Pook075!  All of this is quite helpful.

I think she's gonna have to come to that conclusion on her own.  I've tried to make this point many times.  The truth is that we could purchase a house somewhere and it could turn into a summer/vacation place that we eventually move into.  Lots of ways this could play out.

Thanks everyone!

No problem at all, please keep us in the loop and give updates when you can!