Not coping well after blow up with suspected BPD mother

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello!
I am not coping well. In very brief, I have long suspected my mum has BPD with traits of narcissism but she would not ever seek mental health support.

She was abusive to me as a child - both physically violent (beltings, slapping) and verbally (name calling, swearing, demeaning etc.). I developed mental health challenges as a result and have a history of self harm and eating disorders although I have now been well for a long time.

There is definitely an element of emotional incest - my father is unable to meet my mother’s needs and I am de facto care giver and therapist. I speak to my mother twice a day every day and often end up mediating between her and my dad.

Our relationship has been a lot better now I am an adult but I do feel this is contingent on my fulfilling her needs. I support them both emotionally and financially.

Anyway, that’s all the context.  A couple of days ago we went to a Christmas quiz with my dad and my partner.  My mum tried to get me to cheat by writing down an answer she had googled.  I did not feel comfortable doing this.  When I said no, she slammed her hands on the table and told me I was boring.  I felt angry and left the table to go outside and vape.

When I returned, she was scrolling the news on her phone and refusing to participate.  A woman behind her then turned round and told her she should put it away.  Mum went nuts, obviously, went and got all her stuff and left to sit in the car.  I reverted to my usual role, embarrassingly, and wanted to fix everything.  I spoke to the woman who had told mum off and told her that my mum is Palestinian (true) and was reading the news about Gaza (true).  The woman was very apologetic and went outside with me and apologised to my mum.  My mum thanks her and cries and comes back inside.

She does, however,  ignore me for the rest of the evening apart from glaring at me and leaves without saying goodbye.  I get in the car with my partner at the end of the evening, have a full on panic attack and sob and sob.

Fast forward to the next day and my mother calls me. She says that she is willing to forgive me for my behaviour and we can move on.  I say that I don’t feel I have done anything wrong. She says it is my fault that the woman behind her criticised her and I should have not left the table because it was embarrassing..  I explained that she had insulted me and I was allowed to feel angry and take time to calm down..  She gave the phone to my father (who I usually have a good relationship with and who is emotionally abused by my mum) and he tells me I should just get over it for my mum’s sake. I get really upset and tell them that they’re not being fair and I’m not sure I can continue having a relationship with them right now .

So that is where we are right now.  I feel totally crushed and the situation has brought back a lot of feelings from my childhood, where I was abused and my father failed to protect me, which I thought I had long since put to bed.

Them being unified in their perception of the situation makes me feel like I might be totally insane but I feel also that I cannot demean myself by accept their reality and apologising.

[Bluebird15]

Hello!
I am not coping well. In very brief, I have long suspected my mum has BPD with traits of narcissism but she would not ever seek mental health support.

She was abusive to me as a child - both physically violent (beltings, slapping) and verbally (name calling, swearing, demeaning etc.). I developed mental health challenges as a result and have a history of self harm and eating disorders although I have now been well for a long time.

There is definitely an element of emotional incest - my father is unable to meet my mother’s needs and I am de facto care giver and therapist. I speak to my mother twice a day every day and often end up mediating between her and my dad.

Our relationship has been a lot better now I am an adult but I do feel this is contingent on my fulfilling her needs. I support them both emotionally and financially.

Anyway, that’s all the context.  A couple of days ago we went to a Christmas quiz with my dad and my partner.  My mum tried to get me to cheat by writing down an answer she had googled.  I did not feel comfortable doing this.  When I said no, she slammed her hands on the table and told me I was boring.  I felt angry and left the table to go outside and vape.

When I returned, she was scrolling the news on her phone and refusing to participate.  A woman behind her then turned round and told her she should put it away.  Mum went nuts, obviously, went and got all her stuff and left to sit in the car.  I reverted to my usual role, embarrassingly, and wanted to fix everything.  I spoke to the woman who had told mum off and told her that my mum is Palestinian (true) and was reading the news about Gaza (true).  The woman was very apologetic and went outside with me and apologised to my mum.  My mum thanks her and cries and comes back inside.

She does, however,  ignore me for the rest of the evening apart from glaring at me and leaves without saying goodbye.  I get in the car with my partner at the end of the evening, have a full on panic attack and sob and sob.

Fast forward to the next day and my mother calls me. She says that she is willing to forgive me for my behaviour and we can move on.  I say that I don’t feel I have done anything wrong. She says it is my fault that the woman behind her criticised her and I should have not left the table because it was embarrassing..  I explained that she had insulted me and I was allowed to feel angry and take time to calm down..  She gave the phone to my father (who I usually have a good relationship with and who is emotionally abused by my mum) and he tells me I should just get over it for my mum’s sake. I get really upset and tell them that they’re not being fair and I’m not sure I can continue having a relationship with them right now .

So that is where we are right now.  I feel totally crushed and the situation has brought back a lot of feelings from my childhood, where I was abused and my father failed to protect me, which I thought I had long since put to bed.

Them being unified in their perception of the situation makes me feel like I might be totally insane but I feel also that I cannot demean myself by accept their reality and apologising.

[Notwendy]

There are some notable things to point out in this exchange- but first- welcome to this community - you are not alone with these dynamics. Your role has been the "fixer" in the family but also there are Karpman triangle dynamics that result in your parents aligning together "against" you. It has also confusing to me that my father both protected me and then didn't- allowing BPD mother to be emotionally and verbally abusive to me. This is more about your father than it is about you- it's his co-dependency.

Like you, I learned to be co-dependent- this was the "norm" and expectation in our family. The focus was on BPD mother and we were expected to be emotional caretakers.

You are aware that you jumped in to "fix" the situation when the woman got angry at your mother. This wasn't your issue to fix. This is between her and the woman- you jumped in as a third "rescuer" - found yourself in the Karpman triangle. This kind of behavior is unsettling. It's you taking on an issue that isn't yours.

You also weren't being entirely truthful and this kind of thing also has an emotional impact. It is understandable that your mother is very upset by the current conflict in the middle east. However, this doesn't give her license to break the rules of no phone and to cheat in a game. If those were the rules, the other woman was right to tell her to put it away.

Blaming an external issue for mother's behavior. This is common for families and for the person with BPD. BPD mother would point out some issue that was upsetting her or someone to blame- and not be accountable. BPD mother takes victim perspective. This is what happened here . Your mother got sympathy (understandable) but it was used to excuse her behavior which was breaking the rules of the game.

However, this time, you are aware of the pattern and this is a good thing. I hope you are getting support from a therapist or 12 step group and working on your own co-dependent traits. It's not your fault that you do this- this is what many of us were raised to do. The good news is that if we learned the behaviors- we can learn to not do them and to do different ones.

[Bluebird15]

Hi Wendy

Thank you so much for your very thoughtful response.i really appreciate it.

I was not aware of Karpman triangle dynamics and this is a really helpful conceptual framework to understand what is happening and why I also react the way I do.

You are of course absolutely right regarding your assessment of my mother’s behaviour in the context of the ME crisis.  It sounds too horrible to say, but the truth is that my mum has been using this for a number of weeks as a means to justify escalating behaviour from her.  This is not a new pattern in that she will seek out reasons for her mental instability and to make us feel unreasonable for expecting better from her.  Tragically, the situation in the ME is just the latest reason which is particularly galling given the real human suffering of everyone involved.  Previously, justification for her behaviour had been my dad’s ill health, or our family’s financial difficulties, or having to move house or whatever else - she never acknowledges that we are all impacted by these stresses but do not use this to justify cruelty to one another.

Truthfully, I felt deeply ashamed of my reaction (seeking to reconcile mum and the lady that criticised her) as I know full well that mum was in the wrong.  It is a reaction that comes out of fear - I am terrified when mum behaves in these unpredictable ways and will do literally anything to deescalate it. Jumping into that role in that way makes me feel dirty and demeaned.

I have been in therapy a lot in the past but primarily to address the mental health struggles which I mentioned.  I certainly would benefit from additional therapy to address this particular issue and will seek this out.

Thank you again.

[Notwendy]

Hi Wendy


Truthfully, I felt deeply ashamed of my reaction (seeking to reconcile mum and the lady that criticised her) as I know full well that mum was in the wrong.  It is a reaction that comes out of fear - I am terrified when mum behaves in these unpredictable ways and will do literally anything to deescalate it. Jumping into that role in that way makes me feel dirty and demeaned.

I understand this feeling. It is not your fault. This is how you were raised and it's almost automatic. There is nothing wrong with you for feeling this way. This feeling is a gift in a way- it is your guide to what behavior you want to change. It tells you when you are dismissing your own judgement and reality. Pay attention to it

[Mommydoc]

I completely agree with NotWendy. The Karpman triangle is a great framework to reflect on our own contributions to a dysfunctional dynamic. Please don’t be so hard on yourself Bluebird15, as NotWendy said you were raised within this dynamic and almost programmed to your role. I hope you will read the workshop/article on Karpman triangle.  https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

“ According to Lynne Forrest, a motivational speaker and former social worker who has conducted workshops about the Karpman Triangle for thirty years, participants tend to have a pri­mary or habitual role (victim, rescuer, persecutor ) they adopt when a drama triangle begins to form. Participants learn their habitual role in their fam­ily of ori­gin. The idea is that when there is dysfunctional conflict, we often find ourselves playing out these drama roles with others. While these habitual roles are natural and often familiar, they are very limiting and make us prone to enter into drama triangles.”


You were brought up to be the rescuer in your family, just like I was.  It is very difficult if you are typically the rescuer, when the table gets turned on you and you are represented as the persecutor. I used to feel a degree of power in “ fixing things” for everyone, not just my uBPD sibling.  It kept my energy and focus on her and others and not myself and how I was contributing.   And it always felt lousy,  because no matter how hard I tried, it was never enough for my sibling.   For along time, it felt like I wasn’t authentic, if I wasn’t trying to fix things, it was just who I was and the role I felt most comfortable in.  One day my mother told me, “ stop trying to make her happy, it’s never going to happen. Focus on what makes you happy”…. It seems so basic, but being given permission by my mother, who with my father had previously “programmed me” into the rescuer role for our family, was incredibly empowering.  I journaled about that conversation, told my therapist about it, and now that my mom has passed, I keep reading it, whenever I am tempted  to fall into the rescuer role. 

Exiting the Karpman triangle is hard.   It requires us to stop participating as a  rescuer, even when everyone else is still trying to force us there.   Instead, we have to find and hold a center position even if that requires us to step back and retreat. For me, this meant “not reacting” in moments that I would have previously, not trying to save my sister, not trying to make her better, not trying to explain or justify, when blamed for ridiculous things. I also learned how to validate my sister’s feelings authentically, without agreeing with them.  ( still working on this!)  I used to think that her bad behavior reflected poorly on our family or me, and tried to explain or justify it with others.  Once I realized that people saw through my explanations anyway, and that I was not responsible for her behavior, it was a lot easier not to rescue her.  Let her suffer her own consequences for her own behavior.  You are not responsible.  Your father is also playing his role.  He may not be as self aware as you are, but he has chosen this role.  To exit the triangle, you may have to let go of wanting him to rescue/protect you, as this puts you in victim mode. 

For me, it also meant setting and holding boundaries, setting them was one thing, but holding them, over and over, can be exhausting.  It has not improved my relationship with my sister wBPD, but it has definitely helped me manage my relationship, and made be feel better about myself.  It can be tempting to fall into victim mode ourselves when our BPD family member attacks us or does not respect boundaries, but not allowing ourselves to fall victim, is also part of staying centered and not engaging in the drama triangle.

I am so happy you are considering therapy and hope you will share what you are learning about the Karpman Triangle and your insights about how it is relevant in your family with your therapist.   I suspect the work you have done in the past will be a good foundation to build on and learning how you can change yourself so you are not contributing to the dysfunctional dynamic, will be  very empowering.  If there is one thing I have learned is that we can’t change our family member wBPD.  We can only change how we react and interact with them and when we do, it is easier. You have great self awareness and that is the first step. Good luck!

[Bluebird15]

Oh my goodness - I am so glad I have found this space.  Thank you both for your compassionate and thoughtful responses.

It has really helped me to grab a hold of my own reality again.  It’s so hard to do that when the only voices swirling about are those trapped in that cycle of drama and chaos.

I have reached out to some therapists who have a thorough understanding of transactional analysis - I want to work very specifically on changing my role in our family dynamic and think I need help to do this.

Thank you again - your input has been more valuable than you can know.