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Gem8
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« on: November 12, 2023, 03:37:01 PM »

My daughter is in her 30’s now. We’ve been dealing with BPD-like behaviours since she was 14. She moved to another country 10 years ago and we’ve done our best to attempt to visit her and support her. She has abandoned me by leaving me a number of times while visiting this other country. She left me after becoming upset about something. She did this again about 18 months ago as well, but this time in my country. She does visit here annually, but usually has no contact during the 3 weeks she is in our city. 18 months ago she did agree to a lunch after I learned she was here and invited her.The lunch ended abruptly when she got up and left. I focused on actively listening to her and said nothing that I believe would account for her leaving.  Since that last event she seems to have attempted to convince other members of our family to join her by eliminating us from their lives and she’s been successful with 3 of our 5 children. She appears to have effectively triangulated with these 3 and told them things that we did not do or say. Our other children do not talk about BPD and we haven’t either with them. We are currently estranged from 4 out of 5 of our children. It has obviously been quite hurtful and confusing. We have sought counselling support; but in all honesty, I don’t really think most people really understand this well enough. It must be difficult for most not to think that we must have done something wrong. I’ve found this site to see if anyone here might have something useful to communicate to us in order to try to reconnect. We do feel like we’re in a stalemate here.
Our daughter has been in a relationship with her boyfriend now for 2 years. We think that she may have convinced him to quit his well-paying job and move to a country where he has no connections and no job and doesn’t speak the language. My question is; we did meet our daughter’s boyfriend’s parents once. They live in the same city as us. This meeting went well, but was 2 years ago. We are not sure if we should attempt to reconnect with them in case they may be having some concerns as well. Is this a bad idea?
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Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
Sasha77

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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2023, 09:30:03 PM »

Hello Gem,
I wanted to just say, you are not alone, and I am so sorry you have to go through this. I am new to this forum as well, and it has helped me to realize just what this illness does, and that you can be a kind and loving parent yet still have a child in this awful situation.
I wish I had better advice to share, and if I ever figure out anything in terms of how to cope with this, I will definitely share it! In reading about your specific situation, I am wondering what you hoped to accomplish in reaching out to the boyfriend’s parents? Was it more to find out how your daughter and her boyfriend were doing, or to maybe connect in terms of going through something similar?
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kells76
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2023, 11:40:17 AM »

Hello Gem8, so glad you're here and felt ready to reach out. Like Sasha77 said, you're very not alone in this struggle.

Over a decade of dealing with BPD-type behaviors is exhausting. The push-pull, conflicts, unpredictability, and shifting alliances just never seem to end.

This is a great question to ask yourself:

I am wondering what you hoped to accomplish in reaching out to the boyfriend’s parents? Was it more to find out how your daughter and her boyfriend were doing, or to maybe connect in terms of going through something similar?

It makes sense that you want to move past the stalemate and reconnect with your D. This group is a great place to talk through your motivations, desires, hopes, goals, and strategies, to find an effective way forward.

One of the biggest things I've learned from being a member here is that effective ways to communicate with a pwBPD are often deeply unintuitive and must be learned and practiced. For example, with a "generally normal" relationship where there's distance and you want to heal the breach, you might suggest "we should meet up and talk about what happened", and then both parties could talk about their experience, both could apologize, and the relationship could move forward.

With pwBPD, "talking about the relationship" can often backfire and turn into blame and anger. However, doing the relationship differently -- without having to "discuss the past" -- can sometimes be effective. For example, some parents will send low-key, low-intensity cards or messages at socially normal times, to an estranged child. This might mean a birthday card saying "Saw this cute card and thought of you, have a wonderful day" instead of a 5 page letter saying "Can't we just work through what happened, here's my explanation". Or, it might mean a text at Christmas saying "Wishing you a joyful holiday, love always Mom" instead of a phone call saying "Everyone else is here, why can't you just be pleasant with the family for one day". (Not saying you're doing any of that! Those are more examples of using low emotional intensity "feelers" to maintain contact with your child, without it being overwhelming.)

It's a balance between respecting that your child is an adult (albeit one with a PD who can be unpredictable and act on a whim), who may make a choice to have more distance from you, with working with your own desire for caring for your child and not throwing your hands in the air and saying "Fine, we're done".

...

How have the last few days been for you?
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Gem8
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2023, 02:14:12 PM »


Thank you for replying to my question regarding talking to my daughter's boyfriends parents.  I did hear from one of our children about a bbq they attended with my daughter and her boyfriend while they had been visiting here.  It sounded like the boyfriend was already reaching out for help in some respects.  He shared that he was already feeling overwhelmed and lonely with the relationship and isolation in a different country.  I just wondered if he had shared with his parents who live in our city.  I wondered if they were also trying to make sense of things.  I don't think the boyfriend has put it together regarding BPD as it has not yet been diagnosed.  I have watched many you tube videos on BPD suggesting that there is help with Diabolic Behaviour Therapy.  But how does one explain to an undiagnosed BPD that that's what they have without them absolutely closing you out of their lives forever? 

On another note, my daughter just had a recent bday in which I did send a happy birthday wish.  It was short and simple and I did get a kind reply back thanking me for the warm wishes.  I must admit that I was elated.  It's been a long time since I have received anything positive back. 

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Randi Kreger
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2023, 01:54:42 PM »

First off, I laughed out loud when you called DBT diabolic behavior therapy. It’s actually called dialectical behavior therapy, but it does have its shortcomings. It’s probably not diabolic, but it was awfully funny to read that.

YOU SAID: “She has abandoned me by leaving me a number of times while visiting this other country. She left me after becoming upset about something”

MY TAKE: I found it interesting that you said that your child abandoned you. Most of the time, it’s the person with BPD who says that they are being abandoned. May I ask how old she was when she left for the other country? If she was above 18 or so, she is not abandoning you. She is simply living an adult life.

her leaving is not really about you although she may protest that it is. Our adult children may make moves that hurt us, but this is not done deliberately to hurt you. If you are having feelings of abandonment, you may want to seek therapy to find out. If you are expecting too much of her.

Hi conflict people will leave conversations when they feel put on the spot, when they realize they are  wrong, when they’re triggered hard enough, when they can’t abide the conversation anymore, when they feel triggered, and when they feel invalidated. You may be the trigger, but not the cause.

 The chances that you did something “wrong“ are slim. If you can remember exactly what you said when she got up and left, we might have a clue of why she did so. I’m not saying that it was the right thing to do. I’m just trying to help you explain what happened.

Try not to take her actions personally. I know that seems like an unobtainable task.  I know that seems like an unattainable task. But you can have a great hope and happiness when you are no longer so reactive to what she does.

People are reactive when they take the person very seriously and they let their happiness depend upon what a sick person thinks about them or what they do. Your daughter doesn’t have a broken leg, and that would be easier than an invisible illness.

 That’s the thing about mental health, we all take things personally when we shouldn’t take anything personally.
She’s following the job description of borderline individuals. That’s because she has BPD. Not because of your parenting.


“”YOU SAID: “ She did this again (abandon you) about 18 months ago as well, but this time in my country. She does visit here annually, but usually has no contact during the 3 weeks she is in our city. 18 months ago she did agree to a lunch after I learned she was here and invited her.The lunch ended abruptly when she got up and left. I focused on actively listening to her and said nothing that I believe would account for her leaving.

 YOU SAID: “Since that last event she seems to have attempted to convince other members of our family to join her by eliminating us from their lives and she’s been successful with 3 of our 5 children. She appears to have effectively triangulated with these 3 and told them things that we did not do or say. Our other children do not talk about BPD and we haven’t either with them. We are currently estranged from 4 out of 5 of our children. It has obviously been quite hurtful and confusing.”

MY TAKE: you said that you approached your daughter, with some warm wishes on her birthday, and she responded to you. If she is open to contact with you, then probably the other children are too. I would try to resume contact with them in a way that doesn’t hit you against your borderline daughter.

Simply approach them in the way that you did your borderline daughter, and see if they respond to you. If they do, keep up the correspondence. If they say nothing about what your borderline daughter has said, that’s fine. If they do, try to find a way to acknowledge that your borderline daughter has the right to her own opinions, but you’re not sure what she’s talking about.

Reiterate that you love your kids and are interested in what you’re doing and want to maintain a relationship with them. I think it’s really important to get these kids back because you need them and your borderline daughter should not get her way to remove your children from your life

YOU SAID: “My question is; we did meet our daughter’s boyfriend’s parents once. They live in the same city as us. This meeting went well, but was 2 years ago. We are not sure if we should attempt to reconnect with them in case they may be having some concerns as well. Is this a bad idea?”

MY TAKE: it really is impossible to predict from the amount of information that you gave us. But one thing you do not want to do is do something behind your daughters back that she’s eventually going to find out about. How would she feel if she found out you reached out to the parents? if she would get angry and upset, don’t do it would be my opinion.

Even if they do have concerns, I am uncertain how the four of you working together would provide any advantage over them talking to their son and you talking to your daughter. As sad as it sounds, I would advise you to let the son – who is an adult— to solve his own problems. For goodness sake, do not let your daughters boyfriend to come between you and your daughter.

Is there any chance that you might be enmeshed with your daughters life? Do you need her to be happy in order for you to be happy? Do you constantly think about what she should and shouldn’t do? Are you putting her in the very middle of the circle? That might represent your life? These are signs that you might be a little too close to your daughter in order to see straight.

Now that she is an adult, it’s natural for her to seek her own way. It’s also natural for parents to have a hard time with the empty nest, but they need to let their children make decisions for themselves, even if they think they know better. Frankly, there isn’t any alternative, but to butt into their lives in a place where you don’t belong I know it’s hard to follow this path. But in order for your daughter to learn, she’s got to make mistakes, and she needs to learn to make those mistakes without you rescuing her.

If you rescue her and don’t let her be accountable for her own decisions, she will never learn. It’s hard to let borderline children make mistakes. If they come to you first, you can help them problem solve or give your opinion. But if they don’t want it, giving it isn’t going to help.

I hope this helps a little bit. I know it’s not easy. I wish you warmth and light. Love it! (click to insert in post)
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I had a borderline mother and narcissistic father.
Sasha77

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Relationship status: married
Posts: 25


« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2023, 10:15:37 PM »

I noticed that another respondent said you may be too enmeshed in your daughter’s life, and that usually it is the BPD who feels abandoned… I believe what you have referred to is the very real pain of estrangement. One needs only to look through these forums to see how common it is for children with BPD to cut ties or go no contact with their parents, and this includes well-meaning and loving parents. I wanted to state again that you are not alone and that there are others in this same, veey heartbreaking situation.
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