And just like that, my uBPDh is behaving normally.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

After nearly six months of incessant criticisms, over the top anger, endless circular arguing, and visible, constant anxiety, my uhwBPD seems to have snapped out of it, although I know it’s temporary. It’s as if he turned it all off, like a faucet.  

I’m grateful, but I don’t get it.  Is this typical?  In the past, I’d see a gradual winding down of all of his BPD symptoms, and he’d be fine or a week, several weeks, or even months.  This time, it just shut off. It was quite jarring, but welcomed.

I was so exhausted from almost six straight months of  nonstop put downs,  yelling, pacing, and anger, that for the past couple of days, I’ve been mostly sleeping.  I think this was the worst bout of BPD symptoms I’d ever endured, because he never let up — not even for one day.   Meanwhile, now that all I can do is rest, he hasn’t even asked me why I’m so tired.  

Again, I’m grateful. I thought I was going to lose my mind.  

I can’t even think about when he might start up again.  

But I’ve learned my lesson.  I do believe that next time, if he becomes unbearable for more than a few days, I will leave for awhile.  I don’t think I can endure a long stretch of his impossible behavior again.  I was so traumatized, for so long, it felt like he almost killed me.  

 I’ve been very angry with him, though I dare not let him see it. Still, I care for him too.  I wish he’d get some help. But again, he blames me for his outrageous behavior. He says I’m dark. I’m argumentative.He denies the put downs and the whole kit and caboodle.   EVERYTHING is my fault.

Again, I’m glad for the sudden turnaround, but I’m wondering if this is typical.  

I thank everyone here for all of the support.  I don’t think I could’ve made it through without you.  

[JazzSinger]

After nearly six months of incessant criticisms, over the top anger, endless circular arguing, and visible, constant anxiety, my uhwBPD seems to have snapped out of it, although I know it’s temporary. It’s as if he turned it all off, like a faucet.  

I’m grateful, but I don’t get it.  Is this typical?  In the past, I’d see a gradual winding down of all of his BPD symptoms, and he’d be fine or a week, several weeks, or even months.  This time, it just shut off. It was quite jarring, but welcomed.

I was so exhausted from almost six straight months of  nonstop put downs,  yelling, pacing, and anger, that for the past couple of days, I’ve been mostly sleeping.  I think this was the worst bout of BPD symptoms I’d ever endured, because he never let up — not even for one day.   Meanwhile, now that all I can do is rest, he hasn’t even asked me why I’m so tired.  

Again, I’m grateful. I thought I was going to lose my mind.  

I can’t even think about when he might start up again.  

But I’ve learned my lesson.  I do believe that next time, if he becomes unbearable for more than a few days, I will leave for awhile.  I don’t think I can endure a long stretch of his impossible behavior again.  I was so traumatized, for so long, it felt like he almost killed me.  

 I’ve been very angry with him, though I dare not let him see it. Still, I care for him too.  I wish he’d get some help. But again, he blames me for his outrageous behavior. He says I’m dark. I’m argumentative.He denies the put downs and the whole kit and caboodle.   EVERYTHING is my fault.

Again, I’m glad for the sudden turnaround, but I’m wondering if this is typical.  

I thank everyone here for all of the support.  I don’t think I could’ve made it through without you.  

[SaltyDawg]

6 months of BPD-like behavior may not be BPD; however, it could be bipolar (which is treatable with medications, BPD is not).  Often the two are confused by licensed clinicians.  Historically BPD was diagnosed as bipolar intentionally as BPD, prior to 2013 was considered untreatable.

For BPD this is nothing short of a miracle (unless he is emotionally splitting you white); however, it can be explained with bipolar - the two conditions often coexist (comorbidity).  Outside of medication, the way you are living with a partner whether it is bipolar or borderline are similar.

If he is splitting you white right now, enjoy the needed break; however, do not become lulled that it is over.  If he is splitting, it could be hours, more often than a few days, and he will revert back.  For my wife when she splits me white, it is typically for 3-5 days; however, when she splits me black (emotional dysregulation, not regulated feelings) it is usually for a day perhaps 2.  I'd say wait at least one week and at most two weeks (rapid cycling bipolar can be a short as this) if this 'good' behavior remains - if so, approach him (if you can) or ask your doctor (if you share the same one) about it.

I know from your other thread that you are concerned about your own safety, so be very cautious.  Make sure you have a safety plan (https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety-first-dv-1.pdf) in place.

Even though I don't agree with everything Fian said in the other thread, I can see his point of giving your husband every opportunity to change.  It sounds like something has changed.  Wait and see if this change is 'here to stay' and if so, you may want to re-evaluate your situation with him.  If you do decide to stay you may need to do couple's counseling/therapy.  It is easier to quit than work on what you can change.  I suspect you might have previously done so, as you indicated you got married in your 50's.  I am guessing that you had a previous marriage.  If so, how did that one end?  If you were married, are there any similarities between the two marriages?  If so, what is the common between them and perhaps other previous relationships too?

The reason why I am mentioning this is, both my current spouse, and previous partner both have BPD traits, and 'crazy' is attracted to me.  I needed to figure out why I attract 'crazy' and the best way to do that is with a licensed therapist.  I highly recommend getting one if you already don't have one.

Focusing back on your DH, does/did he have long periods (weeks, months, and even years) where he is behaving one way (mania or hypomania - BPD like behaviors) followed by weeks / months / years of depression?  You know him best, see if there are other patterns in your history that you can figure out - only you can do this.  However, be sure to ask questions.

Most importantly, I see that you are doing a lot of self-care and that is the most important thing you can do for yourself.  Be sure to continue doing that, going out with friends and doing healthy things outside of your marriage.  I also think being in therapy is a good form of self-care too.

Another possibility is that your husband is sensing that you are pulling away, he has gotten a 'wake-up' call and is now on 'best behavior'.  Have you done anything differently with him that you have not previously done which might trigger this behavior?  Something to ponder and reflect on as well.

Take care, and good luck.

[Fian]

One complaint men have about couple's therapy is it puts them at a disadvantage.  The wife cries and talks about how awful her husband is.  The husband doesn't want to complain about his wife, or for that matter talk about feelings, so he sits there knowing he looks like an awful person.  One thing that he might be more willing to do, is talk alone with a therapist.  Then there is no comparison between him and his wife.

[SaltyDawg]

One complaint men have about couple's therapy is it puts them at a disadvantage.  The wife cries and talks about how awful her husband is.  The husband doesn't want to complain about his wife, or for that matter talk about feelings, so he sits there knowing he looks like an awful person.  One thing that he might be more willing to do, is talk alone with a therapist.  Then there is no comparison between him and his wife.

Fian,

   I agree with you, I tried for 3 years, and I was the bad guy for it on not pushing back and therapy went nowhere.  I have modified how I approach couple's therapy which I discussed at length in this post:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=356643.msg13202551#msg13202551

   The short version is that when a husband is being blamed for something he didn't do, he needs to push back on it, make a correction, as the therapist is not a mind reader.  It requires a strong sense of self, a strong sense of what reality is, and a willingness to stand up for himself instead of being a doormat and having a false narrative shoved on his persona.  An individual therapist is good for this.

   However, I do disagree with you, it should be brought up in front of a couple's therapist, so the couple's therapist can give their perspective when two differing viewpoints are presented - one is feelings based, the other is factual.  A decent couple's therapist will help the feelings based person become more grounded in facts while validating the feelings, but not the facts.  This way the person who is exclusively based on feelings and not facts, can get a more accurate perspective when actual facts do not match their feelings - in essence a modified version of the DBT fact checking tool.

      One needs to be on the lookout for biased therapists that are misandry in nature in your case, or misogyny for non-BPD wifes dealing with BPD husbands.  Therapist should be egalitarian in nature.

[Fian]

The problem for men is the complaints in couple's therapy are often subjective, on how you make your wife feel.  So, it is hard to push back against that.  Ultimately, I am not trying to say that couple's therapy doesn't have any value, but in this case, the husband has already resisted couple's therapy, so I am trying to suggest alternatives that may not be as threatening to him.

[JazzSinger]

6 months of BPD-like behavior may not be BPD; however, it could be bipolar (which is treatable with medications, BPD is not).  Often the two

are confused by licensed clinicians.  Historically BPD was diagnosed as bipolar intentionally as BPD, prior to 2013 was considered untreatable..

Dear SaltyDawg,

Since he’s been exhibiting BPD behaviors for twenty years, though never as severely as recently, I think it’s BPD. Nevertheless, he has never agreed to counseling, and bristles at the mere mention of it. So, unfortunately, I’ll never know.

If he is splitting you white right now, enjoy the needed break; however, do not become lulled that it is over.  If he is splitting, it could be hours, more often than a few days, and he will revert back. 

Indeed, I know it’s just a break, and he’ll revert back. So I’m enjoying it as much as I can. Every often, it’s been months between episodes.  But, no matter when he reverts to destructive behaviors, I feel that if he comes back as strongly as he did for the past six months, I’ve got to leave, if only for a few days.  I don’t think I could endure it again.  It lasted for too long, and it was too punishing.  He almost broke me.

Even though I don't agree with everything Fian said in the other thread, I can see his point of giving your husband every opportunity to change.  It sounds like something has changed.  Wait and see if this change is 'here to stay' and if so, you may want to re-evaluate your situation with him.  If you do decide to stay you may need to do couple's counseling/therapy. 

Again, he REFUSES to try any form of counseling or therapy. Also, the only change I’m seeing is that he “came back to normal” suddenly and quickly.   Usually, he gradually stops criticizing and acting out, until he tapers down to normalcy.

Focusing back on your DH, does/did he have long periods (weeks, months, and even years) where he is behaving one way (mania or hypomania - BPD like behaviors) followed by weeks / months / years of depressio

He’s rarely visibly depressed after a manic episode.  His depression comes seemingly at no particular time.  He loses interest in all activities except his music, and he’s tired and sleeps a lot. 

Another possibility is that your husband is sensing that you are pulling away, he has gotten a 'wake-up' call and is now on 'best behavior'.  Have you done anything differently with him that you have not previously done which might trigger this behavior?  Something to ponder and reflect on as well.

He’s noticed that I’ve been pulling away since his horrible outburst in May, and he’s been impossible to live with on a daily basis, until now, because of it.  At least that’s how I look at it. 

He’s very disturbed.  I do feel for him. He’s my husband of 20 years.  But now, a lot more self-care is needed in my judgment.

Please forgive the format of this response-  I’m having trouble mastering excerpts. 

I really appreciate your thoughtful response. 

[ForeverDad]

Although this is conjecture at this point, it may be that he's paused his Extinction Burst, if that's what it was, due to you maintaining your improved Boundaries.  They could very well resume later, perhaps at a more muted level, so he can restart with smaller and subtler pokes at your Boundaries.

Boundaries must become a part of your life.  It's hard at first but as you become accustomed to them, hopefully so will he.

Likely you'll never make him want to submit to boundaries, but you can ensure he abides with your boundaries, how you respond.

[Skip]

But I’ve learned my lesson.  I do believe that next time, if he becomes unbearable for more than a few days, I will leave for awhile.  I don’t think I can endure a long stretch of his impossible behavior again.

Now that things are calm, why don't you take a spa day or girlfriend weekend in tyhje next few weeks. Involve him, let him drive you to the spa.  Or bring him a nice gift from the beach.

Space is important in relationships and it generally helps bot parties reset as long as taking space isn't a conflict item itself.

Make sense?

[Skip]

Although this is conjecture at this point, it may be that he's paused his Extinction Burst, if that's what it was, due to you maintaining your improved Boundaries. 

I tend to think of extinction burst more like a firecracker... it explodes and the bright sparks start to fall to earth and go dark... and the person is back to baseline. The classic example is a person who puts his last dollar in a vending machine and the food jams. He reacts by frantically pushing buttons, swearing, pounding the machine, maybe rocking it, but slowly he tires, realizes all the action are hopeless, and maybe after walking off and cussing the machine, he accepts that is not going to get the food or his dollar and starts thinking about something else.

[SaltyDawg]

Although this is conjecture at this point, it may be that he's paused his Extinction Burst, if that's what it was, due to you maintaining your improved Boundaries.  They could very well resume later, perhaps at a more muted level, so he can restart with smaller and subtler pokes at your Boundaries.

Boundaries must become a part of your life.  It's hard at first but as you become accustomed to them, hopefully so will he.

Likely you'll never make him want to submit to boundaries, but you can ensure he abides with your boundaries, how you respond.

I agree 100% with FD.  Right now, while he is on 'good behavior' and he is 'regulated' it is a very good time to set boundaries.

If he is BPD, you need to keep it simple - for my uBPDw it is four simple, but very powerful words "All Abuse Must Stop!" it is all encompassing, and deliberately vague, yet very specific.  Nearly everyone can agree abuse is wrong whether it is overt like physical violence, or very subtle like sharp comments or criticisms (needling) or anywhere in between.


I put your text in italics, and I am responding to each point.

Since he’s been exhibiting BPD behaviors for twenty years, though never as severely as recently, I think it’s BPD. Nevertheless, he has never agreed to counseling, and bristles at the mere mention of it. So, unfortunately, I’ll never know.

I know you are in your 7th decade, and if he is too that could/might be the reason why it is getting worse.  Generally speaking for most mental health issues, people with mental health issues get better from youth to +/- 30 yrs of age, then it levels out for the next two decades, and then starts to get worse in the 50's with cognitive decline.  Also, both of you are from a generation that did not recognize, nor believe in psychotherapy and this may still be his mindset for his refusal to seek out help.

If he is splitting you white right now, enjoy the needed break; however, do not become lulled that it is over.  If he is splitting, it could be hours, more often than a few days, and he will revert back.

Indeed, I know it’s just a break, and he’ll revert back. So I’m enjoying it as much as I can. Every often, it’s been months between episodes.  But, no matter when he reverts to destructive behaviors, I feel that if he comes back as strongly as he did for the past six months, I’ve got to leave, if only for a few days.  I don’t think I could endure it again.  It lasted for too long, and it was too punishing.  He almost broke me.

Nor should you have to endure 'it again'.  You need to identify (make a list) of everything that he did to you that you perceive he did wrong to you.  Then you will have to figure out a way to implement boundaries on it.  A boundary for you might look like "Dear H, if you ever yell at me like that again, I will be packing a bag, and getting out of the home for a few days until you have a chance to cool off".  Be mindful, whatever 'boundary' you impose, you must be able to consistently enforce and consistently follow through on it - if you don't the boundary will become meaningless.  In other words, if you leave for a few days, and the moment you walk through the door back home, he immediately yells at you again, turn around immediately and leave before you are even unpacked.  If you are too tired and broke, and wind up staying, you have just 'given in' to more abusive behaviors.

Even though I don't agree with everything Fian said in the other thread, I can see his point of giving your husband every opportunity to change.  It sounds like something has changed.  Wait and see if this change is 'here to stay' and if so, you may want to re-evaluate your situation with him.  If you do decide to stay you may need to do couple's counseling/therapy.

Again, he REFUSES to try any form of counseling or therapy. Also, the only change I’m seeing is that he “came back to normal” suddenly and quickly.   Usually, he gradually stops criticizing and acting out, until he tapers down to normalcy.

Understood.  So, let's do a little brainstorming here...  If he refuses therapy, then you must become his therapist by 'proxy' (without telling him) - I had to do that with my wife to a much more limited extent (I posted some of how I managed to do this at https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=356643.msg13202551#msg13202551, I will likely in a few weeks time create a new post on 'couples therapy') as her therapists refused to diagnose, so I had to 'steer' the conversations so they would focus on the symptoms, so the symptoms could be treated.  Without a therapist, this is much more difficult to do, but not impossible.  I would recommend that you see an individual therapist yourself who understands this dynamic.

Both my daughter and son, have since refused to see individual therapists that they were previously seeing, so in essence with the assistance of my own individual therapist, I have become my children's therapist by 'proxy' (I ask my therapist who trains therapists on how to handle a situation, or bounce ideas off her before I implement them at home with my children)

When your husband is 'normal' now is the time to address his issues.

I highly recommend the book "Stop Caretaking the Borderline Or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on with Life" by Margalis Fjelstad.  The principles in it are also useful for bipolar too.  

Use the ''seed planting tool" where you make statements, planting emotional seeds.

A good method for doing this is to watch TV together, and if a guy or gal on the screen treats their partner like , talk with your dear H, and tell him, "If someone, possibly even you, ever do that to me again, I will no longer put up with that and treat myself to a get-a-way for myself, or spend time with friends".  


He’s rarely visibly depressed after a manic episode.  His depression comes seemingly at no particular time.  He loses interest in all activities except his music, and he’s tired and sleeps a lot.


Definitely something going on here.  Only a proper evaluation by a licensed professional could determine what it is.  However, what you describe does not exclude bipolar.

Another possibility is that your husband is sensing that you are pulling away, he has gotten a 'wake-up' call and is now on 'best behavior'.  Have you done anything differently with him that you have not previously done which might trigger this behavior?  Something to ponder and reflect on as well.

He’s noticed that I’ve been pulling away since his horrible outburst in May, and he’s been impossible to live with on a daily basis, until now, because of it.  At least that’s how I look at it.

He’s very disturbed.  I do feel for him. He’s my husband of 20 years.  But now, a lot more self-care is needed in my judgment.

By all means do more self-care.  The suggestions that Skip made, sound wonderful - what do you think?  Also communicate with your husband *now*, when he is emotionally regulated.  Do not overwhelm, for my wife, I do about one topic per week, any more and she is overwhelmed (unless they specifically ask to do more, which has happened to me, I threw everything she wanted, and came up with a response that kind of made sense in a dysregulated way, but enough of one to work with in therapy).

When communicating use use "I" statements which includes SET or DEARMAN communications.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=160566.0

While using "I" statements avoid the Gottman 4 horseman of Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, and Stonewalling.
https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/

When he becomes dysregulated and the above techniques do not work, then use BIFF communication when enforcing your boundaries.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0

We are here for you.

Ask questions.  Most definitely take care with self-care.

[JazzSinger]

Dear SaltyDawg,

The information you’ve given me is valuable beyond words. I will check out every link as well as the books.  

I’m going to put your words in ****, and then I’ll respond.  (I’ve given up on the excerpt boxes )

If he is BPD, you need to keep it simple - for my uBPDw it is four simple, but very powerful words "All Abuse Must Stop!" it is all encompassing, and deliberately vague, yet very specific

I’m going to try this!  I’m tired of sitting through endless name-calling, trying to let it roll off my back, when I know it never does.  It just makes me angry and it doesn’t stop him. I’ve got to set better boundaries.  Thank you for this.  

Also, both of you are from a generation that did not recognize, nor believe in psychotherapy and this may still be his mindset for his refusal to seek out help. Also, both of you are from a generation that did not recognize, nor believe in psychotherapy and this may still be his mindset for his refusal to seek out help.

Ironically, his mom was a therapist.  She also beat him brutally when he was a little boy.  I guess this explains why he abhors therapists.  

Use the ''seed planting tool" where you make statements, planting emotional seeds.A good method for doing this is to watch TV together.

I’ve done this when we were in the car, and he was driving a fairly long distance.  I get the sense he absorbs it, but nothing ever changes.  

In other words, if you leave for a few days, and the moment you walk through the door back home, he immediately yells at you again, turn around immediately and leave before you are even unpacked.  If you are too tired and broke, and wind up staying, you have just 'given in' to more abusive behaviors.

I think I might be too tired and broke for this, but I’ll give it a try. Because there have been long periods of times when I’ve fantasized about running out of the door with a suitcase.  I need to put this into action.  don’t have any friends who have room to take me in for awhile, and I feel I need total privacy anyway.   I can spring for a hotel at least a couple of times though.  

I cannot thank you enough for all of this.  

Best,
JazzSinger

[Skip]

This is what goes before the quote:

Code:

[quote author=JazzSinger link=topic=356890.msg13202700#msg13202700 date=1698750618]

And this is what goes after:

Code:

[/quote]

You can get the code by hitting the "excerpt" button.

Hipe that helps.

[JazzSinger]

This is what goes before the quote:

Code:

You can get the code by hitting the "excerpt" button.

Hipe that helps.

Thanks, Skip. 

I’ll keep trying.

[Skip]

Another possible perspective...

Abuse: If there is physical abuse, serial adultery, theft, criminal activity... the best move is be very pleasant (avoid any conflict) and orchestrate dissolving the relationship. Get a lawyer, have him communicate with your husband and in a time of calm, divide the assets, and move on. Splitting assets is drastic and it will be a different life when it is over, but you will be in a healthier and safer environment, day to day.

Shouting: Labeling shouting as abuse tends to be inflammatory and will often make things worse in the moment. Leaving the house for a day or two will have shock value a few times, but soon you may feel that you are punishing yourself. He may think that, too, and start calling your bluff. Leaving may be worth a try.

I would not label his behavior with a judgement terms (abuse, angry). I would use an indisputable descriptive term like "loud" and a self feeling term like "frightening".

Most importantly, I would sit down with him in a time of calm and tell ask him what would be the best way for you to escape when he is being loud and see if you two can work out a plan. It would be helpful, for example, if you can get him to agree that when he is loud it frightens you and the best thing would be for you two to separate in the house (he goes to the guest room, you say in the master) and not talk until the next day.

When it actually happens, he might not have the impulse control to do as agreed, but he will be able to process the next morning why you locked him out of the bedroom. You stay calm (don't fight back) you can even apologize for locking him out. You may want to ask him to apologize for frightening you (its ok if he doesn't).

Establishing a boundary is a process like this. And modeling good behavior is an important part of that.

If he violates the above 2-3 times you may want sit down and discus that it is not working and try to explain or get agreement that you will call the police the next time he is loud and you feel frightened and he won't go to his room.

If it happens again, try to go to your room and him to his and if he doesn't, record the shouting and call the police and have him warned or removed because you feel threatened. [If this is a consideration, please talk it through in detail with members here before acting because there are downsides "dos and don't dos" to this tactic. You need to be careful - he could end up dragged into a DV prosecution with legal expenses, jail time, fines, or shot, or the cops might tell you.]

If the above doesn't stop it, then you should call a lawyer and have him start the process of legal separation and/or therapeutic separation.

It's a process. It needs to be methodical - 20 years of behavior take time to change. It takes strength - you need to not respond in kind (don't fight or be antagonistic) but rather respond the way you want him to respond to you. You need to be focused - use this only for shouting/explosive behavior.

Belittling - We have a tool here about ending cyclical conflict. You have a lot of this going on - there are ways to "take away the relief" another person gets by putting you down and this is not unusual in relationships in general. I know that when my partner get in this mode from time to time I have several responses that allow me to exit the conflict without amping things up - some are funny - and in some situations funny works well.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

I don't mean to be "cookbook" here. I'm trying to paint a p[ractical picture of how to establish and defend your values (se article on setting boundaries).
https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

[Fian]

Generally speaking for most mental health issues, people with mental health issues get better from youth to +/- 30 yrs of age, then it levels out for the next two decades, and then starts to get worse in the 50's with cognitive decline.

Is this true?  I thought I heard from somewhere that BPD tends to lessen with age.

[Skip]

Is this true?  I thought I heard from somewhere that BPD tends to lessen with age.

My understanding is that this is generally true. We are emotionally underdeveloped in our 20's and we are decline in our 80's - 90's (in some cases earlier). As such, personality problems are most pronounced in these windows - but not the same presentation.

People with clinical levels of BPD are at less of a risk for suicide and other dangerous behaviors are the grow into the 30's and beyond. This is the data you are referring to.
 
The manifestations in later years are more related to temperament.

[ForeverDad]

And if you want to simply create a quote box with the title "Excerpt" where you can insert almost anything then you use this structure which does not link to a source (which is precisely what the icon above does, no hard coding necessary).

Code:

[quote]
Insert your text here... It's simple once you know how.
[/quote]

becomes this once posted:

Insert your text here... It's simple once you know how

[SaltyDawg]

Ironically, his mom was a therapist.  She also beat him brutally when he was a little boy.  I guess this explains why he abhors therapists.  

I have found that most therapists are either dealing with their own issues (looks like the case here, a parent should not beat a child brutally, slapping a hand of a toddler away from something dangerous like a saw, knife, is one thing, but it is another to beat a child brutally) or they become a therapist because they have a loved one that has issues.

I’ve done this when we were in the car, and he was driving a fairly long distance.  I get the sense he absorbs it, but nothing ever changes.  

That is the 'intent' is for him to 'absorb it'.  That way if and when you follow through, he will know exactly why you did it, and the risk of him panicking and doing something stupid will be a lot less, as he already had time to pre-process (the seed will have germinated), from his perspective, the unpleasant behavior of enforcing your boundary on him and he won't be quite as stressed about it and will be less likely to panic.

I think I might be too tired and broke for this, but I’ll give it a try. Because there have been long periods of times when I’ve fantasized about running out of the door with a suitcase.  I need to put this into action.  don’t have any friends who have room to take me in for awhile, and I feel I need total privacy anyway.   I can spring for a hotel at least a couple of times though.  

With regards to what Skip wrote, if you feel safe enough to do this you can lock the bedroom door (less expensive than a hotel room).  If he unlocks it, this is an issue, and you may have to upgrade the interior door lock to a keyed exterior one.  If you are unsure about your safety, I just made another post at https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=356913 that deals with personal safety, and follow the links I posted there.

I cannot thank you enough for all of this.  

Don't thank me too soon.  Setting boundaries will eventually make your life better; however, when you start to implement boundaries it can and will likely get worse initially (extinction burst).  Think of it as taking a lollipop away from a toddler who is becoming too fat (who was always allowed to have a lolly previously), what do you think the toddler will do?  He/she will yell and scream for it back for a period of time.  The same will likely be for your partner, it was for my wife.  Be ready to record the bad behavior if you think it will get bad enough for legal action.  My wife's bad behavior worsened for 3 months, flattened out for another 3 months, and then got better - this is a very stressful and time consuming process.  Make sure you have a good support system in place for self-care.

Ask more questions before you start doing this, you need to be mentally prepared for this.

Take care with self-care.

[Sluggo]

It’s as if he turned it all off, like a faucet. 

I’m grateful, but I don’t get it.  Is this typical?

For me, YES. 

It was turned off 'when I gave into a demand'  the longest stretch I had was for about 12 -15 weeks.  She wanted me to stop communicating with my mom.  Nothing unusual about my interactions with my mom (talked about once every 15 days). 

I said no.  Over and over.  And one day as I was exhausted from this, I said I would stop talking with my Mom.  Literally within 10 seconds, everything changed.  Like nothing happened those last 15 weeks.  I was so confused and relieved.  But 3 months later she asked me to stop talking with my oldest sister.....  and so it went. 

Then after not speaking to my family 3 years, 2 weeks after my dad's funeral - who I shunned while sick to gain favor with my wife, I finally realized that I did not control her 'behavior'.  Matter of fact, I encouraged it because I would acquiesse to her demands and she would reinforce it by being nice to me (for a while). 

That realization of my shunning my dad in his cancer illness/death was my wake up call...  I left the house within weeks as I was a puppet and had no backbone... as I had been normalizing this behavior so long. 

Sluggo

[SaltyDawg]

That realization of my shunning my dad in his cancer illness/death was my wake up call...  I left the house within weeks as I was a puppet and had no backbone... as I had been normalizing this behavior so long.

I stayed.

I had a backbone, a bigger backbone than most (I have pushed back on many things as it is the right thing to do - most would not stand up) I was this way with everyone except my wife, as I would appease her to make her happy.  As a result, I was isolated from friends in a similar manner you were with your family.  Then I was ridiculed for not having friends by my pwBPD - that was my wake-up call.  With a therapist, I regained my lost sense of self and grew a backbone, and now I stand up to her all of the time with strong and consistently maintained boundaries.

If you want to stay in a relationship with a pwBPD, you must have 'strong boundaries'. 

[thankful person]

After nearly six months of incessant criticisms, over the top anger, endless circular arguing, and visible, constant anxiety, my uhwBPD seems to have snapped out of it, although I know it’s temporary. It’s as if he turned it all off, like a faucet.  

I’m grateful, but I don’t get it.  Is this typical?  In the past, I’d see a gradual winding down of all of his BPD symptoms, and he’d be fine or a week, several weeks, or even months.  This time, it just shut off. It was quite jarring, but welcomed.

I was so exhausted from almost six straight months of  nonstop put downs,  yelling, pacing, and anger, that for the past couple of days, I’ve been mostly sleeping.  I think this was the worst bout of BPD symptoms I’d ever endured, because he never let up — not even for one day.   Meanwhile, now that all I can do is rest, he hasn’t even asked me why I’m so tired.  

Again, I’m grateful. I thought I was going to lose my mind.  

I can’t even think about when he might start up again.  

But I’ve learned my lesson.  I do believe that next time, if he becomes unbearable for more than a few days, I will leave for awhile.  I don’t think I can endure a long stretch of his impossible behavior again.  I was so traumatized, for so long, it felt like he almost killed me.  

 I’ve been very angry with him, though I dare not let him see it. Still, I care for him too.  I wish he’d get some help. But again, he blames me for his outrageous behavior. He says I’m dark. I’m argumentative.He denies the put downs and the whole kit and caboodle.   EVERYTHING is my fault.

Again, I’m glad for the sudden turnaround, but I’m wondering if this is typical.  

I thank everyone here for all of the support.  I don’t think I could’ve made it through without you.  

Hi I totally relate to this with my dbpdw. Things had gotten worse and worse in the first few years of our relationship, with the control aspect particularly. I managed to totally turn things around from what I learnt on bpd family (this was 7 years into our relationship, and things were vastly improved within a year). My wife then split totally on me a couple of weeks after giving birth to our third child. And basically painted me blacker than black for pretty much a whole year. The baby just turned 1. I actually can’t remember the last time she said she wanted me to leave or divorce her, or accused me of making no effort, things which were daily accusations. Well she did say I ruin everything a couple of days ago, but that’s normal talk for pwbpd, right?! She is generally treating me much more normally and respectfully and I get what a relief this is. But I will never trust her as far as I could throw her.

Sluggo, I also relate to your story of your pwbpd working to alienate you from your family. I have fought over issues like seeing my parents and my children seeing them (even on FaceTime, even having the right to take photos of my own kids, needing w’s permission to send them to my mother). Most recently back in June w told me my mother would not be visiting us or seeing the kids under any circumstances for the rest of this year. (apparently my mother ignores w and makes her feel uncomfortable in her own home). But I was brave and ready to give up my marriage over this, just as I was with the photos. I was at the point of looking at what my legal rights would be for the kids to see my mother, if I wasn’t separated. Anyway it didn’t come to that. My wife changed her mind. Maybe she does want to stay married to me after all.

[SaltyDawg]

My wife changed her mind. Maybe she does want to stay married to me after all.

I know in my wife's mind, as soon as I called her 'bluff' on her threats of divorce/seperation, her demeanor changed in my marriage to her.

I strongly suspect that it is primarily her 'fear of abandonment' that is holding her behaviors in check in the situation involving my wife.

[JazzSinger]

Although this is conjecture at this point, it may be that he's paused his Extinction Burst, if that's what it was, due to you maintaining your improved Boundaries.  They could very well resume later, perhaps at a more muted level, so he can restart with smaller and subtler pokes at your Boundaries.

I too think he has paused his Extinction burst.  I certainly improved and maintained my boundaries.  I think he knew I was about to take a break from his criticisms and possibly leave for a few days.  Barring that, he knew that I’d reached my limit and couldn’t tolerate his criticisms anymore. I’m aware that he’ll start again at some point, perhaps more muted at first.  I’m prepared to tell him to STOP IT.

Boundaries must become a part of your life.  It's hard at first but as you become accustomed to them, hopefully so will he.

Absolutely.  I’ve got to maintain boundaries, no matter how hard, no matter how much he scares me sometimes.  It’s the only way I can live with him, until the time comes when I walk out for good. 

  Likely you'll never make him want to submit to boundaries, but you can ensure he abides with your boundaries, how respond.

Absolutely. Otherwise, we MUST separate.  I’m at the end of my rope with him.  Never again can I  go through what he put me through  last time.  T thought I was losing my mind, but I didn’t. 

Thanks so much for your help.

JazzSinger

[JazzSinger]

Hi I totally relate to this with my dbpdw. She is generally treating me much more normally and respectfully and I get what a relief this is. But I will never trust her as far as I could throw her.

Thankful Person,

Thank you for sharing.  I don’t trust my uhwBPD as far as I could through him either. 

While I’m not walking on eggshells, I have clearer boundaries now. 

Good luck to you.

-JazzSinger

[SaltyDawg]

I’m prepared to tell him to STOP IT.

For a little bit of humor for mental health advice for 'STOP IT'.

My first individual therapist shared this skit with me...  If it were only that simple...

https://youtu.be/7fDY_u6RMyo

[SinisterComplex]

Thankful Person,

Thank you for sharing.  I don’t trust my uhwBPD as far as I could through him either. 

While I’m not walking on eggshells, I have clearer boundaries now. 

Good luck to you.

-JazzSinger

So, honest question...how much do you value trust and loyalty? Where would you rank them personally?

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Pook075]

For a little bit of humor for mental health advice for 'STOP IT'.

My first individual therapist shared this skit with me...  If it were only that simple...

https://youtu.be/7fDY_u6RMyo

I saw that years ago and it's awesome, so darn funny.

[JazzSinger]

I saw that years ago and it's awesome, so darn funny.

SaltyDawg,

OMG!  That was so funny!

Thanks so much!

[Stuck2023]

Just wondering how things have been going lately JazzSinger?