How People Handle Power Can Reveal Who They Are Deep Down Inside

[Depression = 72% of members]

Coming from a large extended family with many disordered family members including a mother with BPD, I often struggle with knowing who is who: figuring out who is genuinely a decent kind person and who is using a facade to manipulate others to get what they want without really caring about others. I have found that one of the best ways to know who a person is can be to observe over time how a person treats others whom they have lots of power over. People in positions of power are: parents, bosses, extremely wealthy people, etc., I often admire many members on this site, who do not want to take advantage of others, who know from being abused by those closest to them, that the last thing that they want to do is be like their abusers in taking advantage of people they have some kind of power over. I am challenged with being too open with people before I get to know them well. I am a work in progress and my boundaries are so much better than they used to be. As my boundaries get healthier, I am becoming less tolerant of superficial people AND value more and more the few real friends that I have had for many years.

[zachira]

Coming from a large extended family with many disordered family members including a mother with BPD, I often struggle with knowing who is who: figuring out who is genuinely a decent kind person and who is using a facade to manipulate others to get what they want without really caring about others. I have found that one of the best ways to know who a person is can be to observe over time how a person treats others whom they have lots of power over. People in positions of power are: parents, bosses, extremely wealthy people, etc., I often admire many members on this site, who do not want to take advantage of others, who know from being abused by those closest to them, that the last thing that they want to do is be like their abusers in taking advantage of people they have some kind of power over. I am challenged with being too open with people before I get to know them well. I am a work in progress and my boundaries are so much better than they used to be. As my boundaries get healthier, I am becoming less tolerant of superficial people AND value more and more the few real friends that I have had for many years.

[TelHill]

I struggle with this too, zachira. We have similar family backgrounds. It's made me prone to picking inappropriate "friends" and relationships. It's the last thing you need after being raised by a parent with BPD.

I'm finding CoDependents Anonymous (CODA) helpful. I find the faith I've been raised in helpful but have to be careful with some church goers.  They let everyone in, including users and abusers.

[zachira]

TelHill,
I sometimes think the decisions we make to be involved with people who are similar to our disordered family members end up being more painful and destructive relationships than the ones with our disordered family members. I keep asking myself when is it all going to stop. Today I was abused by a business partner and I had to participate in the conversation as there were important issues to resolve. I am thinking of selling my portion of the business as it just may not be worth it anymore.
I too am challenged by being codependent. My rule for acquaintances to become friends is there has to be reciprocal respectful communication. It often takes time to see how badly a person I thought I could trust can behave.
I agree that our families are similar. Thank you for replying.

[Notwendy]

I think 12 step groups have been helpful but also like churches, they welcome everyone. There's the possibility of encountering disordered people everywhere- in any religion, denomination, culture, profession. It helps us to have boundaries- boundaries are about knowing what is us and what isn't us and being secure in the difference. I think I once was too open too and now, I tend to be reserved, and hold back and observe for a bit.

I was in a 12 step group recently where one person began talking about their NPD father and over the hour it became apparent that this person was also NPD. I came home upset about it. My H commented- this person is a nut- don't let it get to you. Being in a group situation, whether it's church, or work, or 12 steps -we want to assume that people there are like minded and I do that too- but eventually we see that might not be the case.

The risk of not interacting though is that- there were more like minded people in the group and one that wasn't. If we are too closed off, we miss out on the people who we could connect with.

I think growing up with disordered parents, it might take us longer to realize someone is disordered since it's familiar to us. But we can work on that.

[zachira]

Notwendy,
As always, you have left me with a lot to think about.

If we are going to have the close caring relationships we desire, no doubt we will also encounter disordered people. My challenge seems to be my C-PTSD. Part of this is my tendency to overshare in ways that people can use to harm me. Another part is how emotionally overwhelmed I can become in intensity and length of time, when I interact with a disordered person, especially someone who I am for the time being stuck interacting with, whether it be a business colleague or social contact. I find that healthy people will always disagree with me on something if we really get to know each other AND any feedback they give me will mostly be kind and respectful even though they disagree with me. In relationships with healthy people, we both grow and learn from the relationship while we truly enjoy being together most of the time OR if truly are not interested in each other, we at least treat each other with respect most of the time when we have to interact.

With the disordered people, the rage and the damage they inflict when they find out I do not support their abuse of other people including myself is jarring and feels like a prison which I cannot just walk away from because I have to interact with this person. It seems that many members on this site are in similar situations with abusive people they have to interact with. Recently I had two very different responses to two very different situations with two different disordered persons. One was with a well dressed handsome man in the park who pretends to act like we know each other. I have wanted nothing to do with him. Recently I saw him get out his car full of clothes. He is indeed homeless and looking for a woman to take advantage of. I am proud of myself for paying attention to what my gut told me. In the other case, I got stuck in a business meeting with the President of the group who has abused his power which I have done my best to tactfully call him out on. He called me this week, and told me he is planning to exclude all members from meetings that can not be there in person. I live the farthest away and have the most challenges in being there in person. I am indeed upset by this, and am having trouble returning to baseline knowing that the abuse will be ongoing.

I have improved considerably in setting boundaries with disordered people, AND believe this will always be a challenge because of my C-PTSD.

Thank you for replying. I have so much respect for how you deal with your mother and how you help others on this site. 

[TelHill]

I keep asking myself when is it all going to stop. Today I was abused by a business partner and I had to participate in the conversation as there were important issues to resolve. I am thinking of selling my portion of the business as it just may not be worth it anymore.
I too am challenged by being codependent.

I'm sorry, zachira. I often wonder if I have a scarlet A on my forehead (abused) that clues in the disordered to take advantage. I think it's partially true for me. There are others who target everyone regardless if their intended victim gives off "big chicken" vibes or not.  Boundaries are good and I set them.

The problem I have is resiliency when multiple problems pile up. I feel dead on my feet.  These are the aftereffects of the C-PTSD when I get easily overwhelmed when ill will is in the mix.

For example, my disordered neighbors (good friends/partners in crime with my late husband) try to destroy parts of my property. I can't get access to the roof and they have a roof deck. I have security cameras everywhere but can't get up on the roof to install one.

Their tenants left unwanted furniture in front of my house a few months ago. It looks like they've done something else lately to retaliate which is really upsetting due to my complaints to the city about the dumping of their old furniture. They have stopped a few things I've caught them at. It's like my unhinged husband never died and is living next door. It's stressful.

Then, my laptop died a few months after the warranty was up. The manufacturer is not being responsive.  . Also, my new washing machine is making loud noises. Neither the big box store nor the manufacturer wants to take responsibility.  There's always the strange things my brother or mother say. The weather has been dark, rainy and gloomy for 3 weeks straight.. My motivation is not as high as it usually is to take immediate action.

I think 12 step groups have been helpful but also like churches, they welcome everyone. There's the possibility of encountering disordered people everywhere- in any religion, denomination, culture, profession. It helps us to have boundaries- boundaries are about knowing what is us and what isn't us and being secure in the difference. I think I once was too open too and now, I tend to be reserved, and hold back and observe for a bit.

I was in a 12 step group recently where one person began talking about their NPD father and over the hour it became apparent that this person was also NPD. I came home upset about it. My H commented- this person is a nut- don't let it get to you. Being in a group situation, whether it's church, or work, or 12 steps -we want to assume that people there are like minded and I do that too- but eventually we see that might not be the case.

Notwendy, am not too worried about CoDA. I was at a meeting where someone was telling bizarre, paranoid stories. It does feel weird but definitely easy to avoid.

I attended a women's Bible study on Zoom with parishioners last year which was rigid and strange -- deferring to men, telling someone with cancer that it and the suffering it causes were gifts from God. I gave my viewpoint a few times (something mild like I feel like God doesn't forgive me sometimes  -- said very politely) and was met with a cold, icy stare by the leader. Have seen her a few times at mass since  then and she never looks pleased to see me.

It's a large congregation with many normal thinking people. I remembered most of the women and avoid them and activities they lead. IME (Catholic school & some rigid thinking female cousins), they are disordered and will lash out with gossip and flying monkeys.  I have to be really careful. I don't think I can take this type of treatment as I'm healing from everything in the past. I don't want to be in a scapegoat role again.

Upon rereading this, I will try activities at other parishes in my city. Some seem loving and not as toxic.  I want to leave the scapegoat role far behind.

[TelHill]

**Their tenants left unwanted furniture in front of my house a few months ago. ** I forgot to add: I reported them to the city for illegal dumping. They dumped unwanted items in front of my place before. I felt it was important to stand up for myself.

[zachira]

TelHill,
When we come from disordered families, we have lots of work to do in distancing ourselves from people and environments that replicate the kinds of abuses we are enduring/have endured from our disordered family members. The distancing is not easy in many situations like: a job that pays well with big challenges in finding another job, a neighborhood in which we own a home, a social group in which we want to keep in contact with some of the people, etc.,
I too have experienced the freeze response, of feeling so overwhelmed by all the abuses and having the abuses coming from many different people and environments, with it seeming like it is never going to end. I meditate every day to get myself to live in the present instead of thinking about the past and worrying about the future. As I am meditating, I also try to move as many body parts as I can to thaw out the stored emotions and to be able to feel joy in my body. Slowly I am getting better, and I know I will always need to take out time to mourn the losses and the fears on a daily basis, so the rest of the day my healthy boundaries are mostly in place, and overall I feel pretty good. I do have my bad days though when I am overwhelmed by something like what your neighbors did to you. Everybody gets hit with some horrible situations and people at times, yet it is more overwhelming for those of us who are lifelong scapegoats of our disordered family members.
How are you doing now? It has been several days since you wrote this post, and I have taken time to respond.

[TelHill]

Thank you, zachira! It's very kind of you to list what you do when overwhelmed.

I'm feeling calmer about the neighbors. It felt good to vent though it's an ongoing thorn in the side.

Meditation  (through my religion) helps to clear my mind. . I am guilty of ruminating about the situation. I wish I handled things better in the past with them, etc. I can't undo the past.

I am nc with them. It's not worth talking to them only to face a nasty put down or a small time extortion attempt to pay for damage to their property which I didn't cause. I think one of the adults has a personality disorder and the other has substance abuse issues.  I really don't care one bit about them.

Meeting friends and having them come over would temper the strange behavior. The neighbors' bad behavior has caused me to stay indoors out of fear during the last few years. I haven't felt that in a few months. I go out and do what I need to do.

I really appreciate your sage advice!!

[zachira]

TelHill,
I too often wish I had handled things better in the past. I wish I had had better boundaries and kept my distance from unsafe people.
I too often think that those of us with a history of ongoing lifelong traumas are more likely to be targets. Recently I have had men coming on to me, that seem bitter when I don't pay attention to them and I don't because of their attitude. I have many fine men friends and acquaintances who I enjoy engaging with because they are kind and respectful. The one man that got me to ignore what I was feeling inside was acting like he actually knew me, and I engaged with him, feeling terrible that I could not remember him and what that must feel like. I finally realized we never knew each other, and an old trick to engage with a person is to pretend you have actually met the person in the past. I know I have an exceptional memory for people, and realize I should have had no reason to doubt that I did not know this guy at all. The guy is homeless and looking for a woman to take advantage of. I hopefully won't fall for this one again.
I am glad you are feeling better and getting out. As you are feeling more comfortable in your own skin? Are you noticing that perhaps people in general are treating you better and the not so nice people are less likely to try to engage with you?

[TelHill]

I too often think that those of us with a history of ongoing lifelong traumas are more likely to be targets. Recently I have had men coming on to me, that seem bitter when I don't pay attention to them and I don't because of their attitude. I have many fine men friends and acquaintances who I enjoy engaging with because they are kind and respectful. The one man that got me to ignore what I was feeling inside was acting like he actually knew me, and I engaged with him, feeling terrible that I could not remember him and what that must feel like. I finally realized we never knew each other, and an old trick to engage with a person is to pretend you have actually met the person in the past. I know I have an exceptional memory for people, and realize I should have had no reason to doubt that I did not know this guy at all. The guy is homeless and looking for a woman to take advantage of. I hopefully won't fall for this one again.
I am glad you are feeling better and getting out. As you are feeling more comfortable in your own skin? Are you noticing that perhaps people in general are treating you better and the not so nice people are less likely to try to engage with you?

Am sorry that homeless guy was a con artist. Maybe he was able to draw you out more you a bit more than someone else with stable parenting, but you saw through him. Yay!    These scammers hit on anyone. The odds are good for the odd if they do this.

I have had a couple of men show anger or put me down when it's obvious I'm not interested in them.  I've experienced that in the last few years. They may be older, immature guys who've had a string of women dump them for obvious reasons. I never had this happen when I was in my 20s. I've had weird guys screaming at me from cars or construction workers say weird things.

I think that happens to a lot of women regardless of ability and practice to set boundaries. Not having strong boundaries gives them license to be a bit meaner.

I think having very strong boundaries makes a person more attractive to those who are kind and respectful. You have good company which would make any possible harasser think twice.

I live in a city where we have a lot of homeless people. I've put a look of disgust on my face when I see a homeless or drug addicted man who intends to say something odd to me. They're not begging for change.

I implemented this after attending a few Zoom meetings and noticed I was smiling broadly for no reason. I was not feeling happy and it was not a social gathering. It was a people pleasing mask. I'll smile with the hope you won't hurt me. I think people see my nonstop smile and think I'm an easy mark. Maybe this is not true for for you, but it's been revealing to me that I look like a people pleaser without being conscious of it before.

I  am glad you are feeling better and getting out. As you are feeling more comfortable in your own skin? Are you noticing that perhaps people in general are treating you better and the not so nice people are less likely to try to engage with you?

Thanks! I'm getting out at least once a day to a fun or relaxing place. I go to a few CoDA meetings a week and an online Zoom class.

I have a few activities lined up in the coming weeks at my church. Am very afraid of rejection to the point of becoming physically ill. I've practiced being in public so I don't get sick any longer. It'll be painful emotionally. I'm accepting feeling less nervous takes time.

Am sure the extreme fear of rejection has to do with my dBPD mom and scapegoat role in my FOO.

[Notwendy]

The problem I have is resiliency when multiple problems pile up. I feel dead on my feet.  These are the aftereffects of the C-PTSD when I get easily overwhelmed when ill will is in the mix.


Sometimes I feel like God doesn't forgive me sometimes  -- said very politely)

I have the freeze response too.
In ACA groups, there's a section on religion. For children- our parents seem all powerful and god-like. Children don't develop abstract thinking until later and so our concept of God is based on what we can grasp. We form our ideas about God based on our relationship with our parents. Later, we can form an adult concept about God.

With my parents- if BPD mother is upset about something- it's as if it was a major crime. We grew up afraid of BPD mother. It seemed the smallest slight was not forgiven.

As an adult, I feel that God's perspective is so much clearer than any humans have and so sees all of us with greater understanding.

[TelHill]

I have the freeze response too.
In ACA groups, there's a section on religion. For children- our parents seem all powerful and god-like. Children don't develop abstract thinking until later and so our concept of God is based on what we can grasp. We form our ideas about God based on our relationship with our parents. Later, we can form an adult concept about God.

Yes, I've noticed the overlap between them deep in my emotions. (It goes against the 1st commandment-helps to remind myself) I was on autopilot most of my adult life thinking God didn't want good things for me. I was enraging God if I did and would be punished.

I don't believe it intellectually but it's been a battle emotionally.  Am doing what I can to change my feelings/fear response to a reality. Catholic things along with the 12 steps of CoDA.

Did you go through this, Notwendy? If so, did doing the 12 step program with a sponsor give you some relief?

With my parents- if BPD mother is upset about something- it's as if it was a major crime. We grew up afraid of BPD mother. It seemed the smallest slight was not forgiven.

Same here. It shifted so I was never sure what would set her off what behavior to avoid. She would fold sometimes if I screamed and yelled listing the injustices and inconsistencies of her as actions, as much as a kid could reason in this situation. I think it was the screaming and fear the neighbors would hear, tbh.

As an adult, I feel that God's perspective is so much clearer than any humans have and so sees all of us with greater understanding.

It's a place to turn to for the love and acceptance we never received from our parents or FOO. I really need healthy and true love and acceptance as everyone who had a disordered caregiver does.