dealing with verbal abuse

[felixthedog]

My adult daughter verbally abuses other family members relentlessly. It is destroying our family dynamic and she is unwilling to stop. I am looking for ideas for how others have dealt with this. She lives independently.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[kells76]

Hello felixthedog and welcome to the group 

Verbal abuse is unfortunately something that many members deal with; you're not alone. It sounds hurtful and pervasive and pretty toxic to you and your loved ones.

How does she communicate the verbal abuse -- via text? phone call? social media post? in person? other?

Does she seem to direct it at specific persons, or at anyone?

Are you married to your adult daughter's other parent? If so, how is that relationship -- are the two of you on the same page?

And do you have any other children?

I hear you about just wanting to find a way to deal with this.

[felixthedog]

Thank you Kells76. I have been reading other posts am struck by the similarities of our daughter's symptoms (diagnosed BPD) to others' experiences. My husband (her father) and I are on the same page and trying to educate ourselves as well as we are working with a therapist since she began experiencing a significant decline with emotional dysregulation. I have been a target of such abuse over years, but this has improved since setting some clear limits. Another adult child is the main target, and she has set many boundaries, but still gets cruel, nasty emails.
I guess the question is, are there other measures parents have taken to deliver the "stop the abuse" message that have been effective? So far, our addressing this directly has had little to no impact.

[kells76]

I have been reading other posts am struck by the similarities of our daughter's symptoms (diagnosed BPD) to others' experiences. My husband (her father) and I are on the same page and trying to educate ourselves as well as we are working with a therapist since she began experiencing a significant decline with emotional dysregulation. I have been a target of such abuse over years, but this has improved since setting some clear limits. Another adult child is the main target, and she has set many boundaries, but still gets cruel, nasty emails.

That's good to hear that you and your H are a team on this and are getting therapy. So helpful.

What limits did you set?

I guess the question is, are there other measures parents have taken to deliver the "stop the abuse" message that have been effective? So far, our addressing this directly has had little to no impact.

Right, it makes sense that telling someone else not to do something is not effective, when BPD is involved.

It is important, and can be freeing, for us to wrap our heads around what really is and really isn't under our control.

We have no control over what anyone else does, thinks, or says. We do not control others' abusive behaviors. I am only in control of me, I have no control over making anyone else do anything.

In terms of hoping that telling your D something will impact her behavior -- it would be nice, but isn't under your control.

In a sense, I hope it's liberating for you to know that the issue isn't that you didn't choose the "correct phrase" or didn't say the right words. The issue is that she's making choices and you don't control her choices.

What you do control, fortunately, is what you allow into your life.

True boundaries are rules for ourselves that are 100% under our own control and don't depend on anyone else agreeing, changing, or cooperating. They aren't ultimatums or rules for others.

Sometimes we get stuck on thinking that a boundary is something like "telling her I won't put up with it any more". That isn't a boundary -- it's more of a statement or a wish or a preference.

A true boundary isn't telling someone else "stop the abuse". A true boundary is: I make choices about my values and what I'll do when others try to say or do hurtful things to me.

A true boundary could be you deciding for yourself, inside your head (you don't have to tell her!), that if she texts an abusive message, you will take a break from texting for 3 days before replying.

Or, it could be that if she starts screaming at you on the phone, you'll say "Sorry, I have to go" and hang up.

Or, it could be that if she sends a nasty email, you file it away and don't reply to it.

Some parents, in order to protect themselves, choose to block email or text or phone numbers. Some parents don't need to do that. It's OK to do what you need to do to protect yourself (and your relationship with your D) from abuse.

All of those things are under your control -- though not easy. We so wish that the pwBPD in our lives would see how hurtful they are and change. Some do, some don't -- but we don't have to make ourselves available for their hurtful words and actions. We can participate when it's healthy and exit when it's not.

...

Lots to think about -- any of it sounding familiar, or do-able?

How old are your kids? How's your other adult child doing with the situation?

[felixthedog]

These are helpful things to hear. Having sat quietly through many raging tirades, I appreciate the statement about not having "to make ourselves available for their hurtful thoughts and actions." My H and I are getting better at shutting down the angry narratives and being clear about what we can and cannot support. Beneath the rage is such a sad vulnerability and self-loathing, and feeling she is not welcome in the family. It breaks my heart as a mother who loves her so dearly and wants only her happiness and well-being. She has completely alienated her sister because of abusive texts and emails, a rupture likely beyond any repair at this point. I grieve the loss of our family. We had many happy times together and gave our children as enriched a home life as we thought they needed and wanted. Now I cannot even imagine a family gathering in the future. The last 6 years have been progressively worse with periods of NC from her, and such dysregulation, suicidal ideation, despair, and rage. She is now 30yo. I read something about "unacknowledged grief" describing when there has not been a death, but such a profound loss that others who have not experienced this do not realize or understand the depths of your grief.
Thank you for your comments and support.

[kells76]

I read something about "unacknowledged grief" describing when there has not been a death, but such a profound loss that others who have not experienced this do not realize or understand the depths of your grief.

I think that really rings true when BPD is involved. Your loved one is alive, but in a sense, their self isn't there. So painful for everyone.

Having sat quietly through many raging tirades, I appreciate the statement about not having "to make ourselves available for their hurtful thoughts and actions." My H and I are getting better at shutting down the angry narratives and being clear about what we can and cannot support.

While you can't control your D30's moods or desires or choices, which are often very "black and white" -- she may stay hostile, or may vacillate back and forth, or may get help and be able to engage healthily again -- you are able to inhabit the "gray area" better than she can. Your choices don't have to be "sit and take it" or "cut her off entirely forever" (black and white thinking). It is an option to "test the waters" with her occasionally, to put out feelers of neutral, low intensity contact, and see how she responds.

You can decide what your own values are for trying to stay connected and treating her like part of the family -- it could be sending birthday and holiday cards, inviting her to events even if she probably won't go, "liking" a social media post, texting her a cute picture occasionally. Her commitment to feeling rejected may not change (doing those things may have no impact on her feelings), but you can know that even though you don't have the family setup you so wanted, you are doing the best you can in the reality you have, to love the daughter who is.

Relating like that (putting out feelers with something neutral, seeing how she responds, and if she's escalated/dysregulated, waiting until she's back at baseline to engage) isn't intuitive and isn't what anyone here wanted, but it is a possibility.

These are such difficult relationships, especially when all you want is good for your child.

...

Do you and your H still have a solid relationship with her sister (your other daughter)?

[CC43]

Felix,

I've also gone through around six years with a dysregulated, adult stepdaughter who was nasty to other family members.  There was a long time she wouldn't even talk with her siblings or mother.  The way she tells things, she went no-contact because they were abusive to her.  The reality was the other way around.  Holiday or celebratory gatherings with the entire family were impossible, because invariably she would break down and lash out in anger (if she deigned to mingle with the group at all).  I think her "trigger" was an inability to be happy for others during a happy time, because she was in such a dark place.  Additionally, she felt ashamed, because she wasn't able to "adult" according to the typical timeline.  Her out-of-control rages basically precluded her from finishing school, holding down a job and maintaining friendships.  So she was basically stuck in the role of dependent child, while others (siblings, cousins) had moved on and grown up.  No wonder she felt so down, but she did little to get herself back on track for several years.  She was too busy blaming others for all of her problems.

How do you deal with the verbal abuse?  I'd say, don't respond to it, because there's nothing you can say or do to make her feel better when she's raging.  If she sends mean texts, just delete them, or file them away.  Take them as a signal that she's dysregulated and unable to process any feedback, but that she still needs you.  Imagine how troubling and contradictory it must feel for her to simultaneously hate you and need you desperately!  If she's shouting in person, what I would do is stay silent, leave the room.  If she's yelling on the phone, you can stay silent until she asks if you're still there.  Or you could say something like, We're not getting anywhere, so I'm going to hang up now.

But as a rule, I've always tried to include my stepdaughter in all family functions, no matter how cruel or petulant she's been.  She's invited to holidays; it's her choice whether she shows up or not.  I buy her gifts; it's her choice to collect them or not.  If she's a no-show, I just set them aside for another time.  I send her Happy Birthday texts and will check in from time to time, just as with her siblings.  She decides whether she responds or not.  Basically I treat her as I would treat anyone else, but I don't have any expectation that she will reply or reciprocate.

The good news is that my stepdaughter has taken therapy seriously, and her rages have diminished significantly.  She's now able to visit with her dad and me.  She's still not able to be with her siblings in person, though I understand she has been exchanging texts with them sometimes.  Last Christmas we had a separate dinner and present exchange with just my stepdaughter, and we had the normal gatherings with the whole family (excluding my stepdaughter).  I suppose that is a better result than the blow-ups of the previous years.  I'm still waiting for a time when we can celebrate all together, but I'm not getting my hopes up yet.  The timeline is entirely up to her.

[felixthedog]

CC43, you wrote "I think her "trigger" was an inability to be happy for others during a happy time, because she was in such a dark place.  Additionally, she felt ashamed, because she wasn't able to "adult" according to the typical timeline."

Yes, this holds true in our situation. Her two siblings have both launched in a more conventional way (though not without their own stresses, which they are managing without parental dependency and with emotional maturity). In many ways, she has also had conventional "success" as an adult - finishing college, a grad degree, and several jobs. But there is always this feeling she is on a precipice of it all falling apart, and then periodically, this happens. I sit in fear waiting for the next episode, and agony if she is not replying to a text in a timely way - often to eventually find out she is fine, even in a good mood.
I have historically been the target of her abuse and blamed for all of her problems in life. After a particularly harrowing time last year, somehow we made it to the other side of this and have been having a healthier relationship for some months now. Recent challenges with work (laid off) and with her sister excluding her from her life, have led to more dysregulation. I feel for her anguish, but know I cannot fix this. At the same time, I am trying to support my other daughter's anguish about how she is being blamed and harassed. It is a long and rocky road, and we are all in therapy, which is a good thing.
I appreciate your comments. You seem to have found a kind of deep acceptance and tolerance for all the unknowns (if she will show up for a family event, respond to messages, etc.), and I am hoping to get there. She usually opts out of family or holiday events, and like yourself, we may do our own meeting up with her separately. I see so much potential, and when she is regulated, she is able to engage her many gifts and talents.
In any case, I really appreciate your wisdom and perspective, and wish you well in your ongoing journey with your SD.

[BPDstinks]

i feel for your situation with my whole BEING!  My 24 y/o BPD daughter cut ties with me, her father, her sister & her beautiful nieces; the last time I physically saw my daughter was 5/24/23; despite battling this diagnosis together (i could write a book about THAT) one day I said I liked a sweater & that DID it...she texts me sometimes; i have followed the advice of the mailing of cards, etc. however, each holiday was very hard, her bday was so upsetting that I felt like I could not get out of bed; Mother's Day is blurred by it, on & on....I also appreciate the "verbal abuse" there have been countless episodes,, not so much of RAGE, but nasty, cruel comments; once at a dinner SHE requested, with NO warning, she told me to shut the F up; I have anxiety issues & it is really hard to just "sit" there, but I did; i really appreciate the "grief" mention, also, because I feel a loss, of my BPD physically, of events we did (sooo many things), dance recitals, (that was another really hard day; the first time I did not go (she teaches) (last year I was shunned) i feel a loss of what "might have been" and valuable time we are missing; I find it hard to imagine she will marry & have kids; so, I mourn both what WAS & might not be; I am sorry for your struggles, I know this is a club noone wants to be in!  this group is life saving, though!  please feel free to reach out, if you like

[js friend]

H and stayed i felixthedog,

I truly believe that my own udd has to have a target. When she was with an exbf he was the target, meanwhile we still got on pretty well....Then it became his family then it became his new g/f and the police had to get involved, meanwhile again we still got on pretty well, then it became all the expartners in turn when it didnt work out..and then for what ever reason....I suddenly became the target and stayed that way up until our estrangement. In the run up to our estrangement I enforced some real firm boundaries with my udd. IF she was verbally abusive with me I would hang up on her after giving her a warning, and if she was in my home I would ask her to leave. Funny thing is that she would also use this exact same phrase with her exbf! (I knew this because she would tell me) So after the verbal abuse towards me stopped working  I noticed that she began to work on bringing down my self esteem....she claimed I chewed too loudly....she hated the way I spoke.... she hated the way I walked.....Nothing was right for her. Like BPDstinks my own udd used the exact words to tell me to "shut the F up". This was also in a room full of relatives. Again I didnt respond which is what she wanted. I learnt to become "a rock" and  to let all my udds negative energy wash over me. It was hard at first, but it worked as my udd became bored with me not reacting to her verbal abuse and criticism. Your adult child may need to practice some techniques like leaving the room or putting earphones on when your dd decides to start otherwise she/he will just find themselves in a loop trying to defend themselves against some distortion. In time I hope that your adult child will come to the realisation that he/she doesnt deserve to be bullied by your dd or anyone else.