Once Devaluation Has Happened Can It Be Fixed?

[hiimtom]

My ex-gf and I broke up a while ago and I was and am still sad about it. I realize now that the idealization segment of our relationship was a symptom of the disorder but I didn't know that she had BPD or even really what it was until the devaluation happened. She woke up one day and she was completely different. This has meased me up since it happened because of how little sense it made at the time. But now I realize that's just how it happens. The catalyst of our end was that she accused me of checking out a other woman. I hadn't, but what hurt the most was that there was no benefit of the doubt given to me, it was just I did it and she was super mean about it. Well after I was like that was really mean she felt bad but didn't say sorry. I should have handled that differently I didn't know she was BPD then though. Guilt and apologies are a real struggle for her and seeing me and feeling guilty was too which is why we broke up and the split and devaluation occurred. I think she misses me because she still talks to me all of the time. Literally. We essentially have had one long text conversation since we met. Anytime we hang out and things get close to being good again she lashes out. Every time I ask why she wouldn't want to get back together or why we broke up she says something completely different.

Part of me really wants it to be the case that she loves me but she feels bad about everything and since she has a thing about apologies or guilt she justifies us not being together with whatever she can think of.

I've been wanting to try to explain this to her and gently and lovingly point this out to her to hopefully get back together. She knows she's borderline but really doesn't know much about it and I was thinking if I say something like "hey this is why this happened I am sorry I love you" and try to make her see that I'm not gonna leave when she is mean or whatever and maybe not have to apologize for anything but figure out our own way to do it for her if she wants or just no apologies. I will just know that she is sorry.

Is there any way that works? I ranlly don't think so at this point.

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hello hiimtom and

BPD relationships can be pretty counterintuitive. Things that we've seen work in "generally normal" relationships, like explaining, debating, pointing things out, having long talks about the relationship, etc, often aren't effective in BPD relationships, and can sometimes make things worse. It's kind of like if you see a fire raging and you see a bucket of clear liquid nearby: "Of course I should throw this on the fire, because everybody knows that water makes a fire go out!" We assume that we are making things better, but that clear liquid is gasoline and we make it worse.

If BPD is involved, it's important to remember that it's a real, serious, and impairing mental illness, that shows up emotionally and relationally.

Putting those two pieces together can help us understand how to be more effective in pursuing the goal of reconnecting. The person closest to her, trying "normal" moves like "explaining BPD to her", likely won't be effective and may actually push the two of you apart. She might experience that as a betrayal -- a partner telling her how wrong and broken she is. It doesn't sound trustbuilding to me.

You're in a difficult spot because it sounds like she initiated the breakup. If you're wanting to reconnect, it'll be important to be cool/chill/at baseline (I don't mean "cold and emotionless") -- in terms of managing your own anxieties and not putting them on her. Desperation may be overwhelming to her, along with unmanaged emotions. Working on yourself and your fears first, so that moves you make don't have the flavor of "I desperately have to fix you so we can be together", may be more effective and less overwhelming.

Counterintuitively, my thought is that "having relationship talks" right now would also be counterproductive. Instead of trying to verbally hash out "what happened" or "what's our status", maybe focus instead on doing steps towards reconnecting and getting a track record of trusting interactions.

Emotional intensity isn't something she can handle well. Focus on low-key, low emotional intensity, non-"relationship talk" interaction. It's good that you have a text conversation going -- do you send chill things? nice pictures, comments on "this cafe was great"...? Most importantly, do you send chill things that don't have strings attached (i.e., sending her a pic of where you had your first date would have strings attached; it's a bid for her to think about the relationship).

There's no guarantee that she'll want to get back together. Everyone is a unique individual, pwBPD included. BPD isn't the totality of that person, so looking for the "BPD lever to reverse devaluation" mechanizes something that at some level is natural. Most people continually break up until their last relationship, if you look at it that way.

You've been dealt a hand that is what it is; all you can do is play it as best you can and let go of trying to manage an outcome. Keep it low key, not overwhelming, and see where it goes.

The biggest gift you can give yourself (and her) in all this, though, is working on yourself, especially through building top-level relationship skills. Check out that section when you have time and let us know what stands out to you.

...

Has she been in touch in the last few days?

[hiimtom]

We text all the time. Constantly. I have been clinging to hope that we get back but we aren't.

I think that she doesn't want to split and or get left by me. But she hasn't even mentioned that so I am probably wrong. She just doesn't like me. Which hurts a lot.
I've tried everything and it hasn't worked. I don't ever get mad or even like respond to her meanness but it doesn't matter. She hasn't even really been nice. I just love her so much that I deal.

Thank you for your response.

[Joyful Noise]

Anddd... offering a view through a different window; 

You don't know it yet but you (and possibly your future children) just dodged a (BPD) bullet.

Sometimes losing what we think we want is a blessing in disguise. 
That is not to say it doesn't hurt at the time but the unseen, future costs of getting that thing we may be agonizing over can possibly be far more life-altering (and not in a good way) than dealing with the upfront, current grief/disappointment of facing a loss.

BPD is a very real, very serious mental illness. It is persistent across a lifetime and adversely impacts those who live in close proximity to it.  -That tragically includes small children who are subjected to BPD parenting.

Take your dating life seriously. Take your self-care seriously.
Use this time to get therapeutic support. You deserve to understand what the tie-in is for you with a BPD partner.

You deserve to be happy!

[Truvada]

She can’t love you or anyone brother.

She doesn’t and never did see you for who you really are.

She only saw her idealized image of you.

With these individuals we are but momentary stand ins for their mothers who did not properly react to them with the appropriate affection and care when they were children/babies which can be extra confusing to those of us that learn this information but also have seen or heard from our current or ex partner that they have a wonderful relationship with their mothers now.

Yet it’s early childhood and the treatment of them by their mother and neglect by her at the critical moment that breaks these people mentally and leads to this terrible disorder that hurts everyone that it touches.

Anyway this isn’t the run board so I’m definitely not telling you to give up on her coming around and hovering you back but you should know that everyone that gets involved with these people and stays with them despite the numerous red flags waving in their face is a codependent.

So while you wait for her to come back you should look into joining a CODA group online or in person as well as getting therapy for the trauma bond you have with your borderline.

If you do that you’ll eventually come to such a place of understanding and healing you may not even want her anymore if she does come back.

Anyway our feeling of deep love for these people is a result of our own core childhood wounds surrounding our mothers and how we never felt like we got enough love or acknowledgement ourselves growing up for whatever reason and that too is even if we have a wonderful relationship with our mothers now.

Even if the relationship is great now it still does not undo the childhood neglect damage that we experienced leading to our codependency that primed us to be perfect fodder to be destroyed emotionally in a relationship with a BPD where they are naturally drawn to us and vice versa.

Like attracts like as they say and even though we are not ourselves borderlines we are still similarly damaged leading once again to,our own mental issues.

[kells76]

We text all the time. Constantly. I have been clinging to hope that we get back but we aren't.

Is that a suspicion, or a decision on your part?

I think that she doesn't want to split and or get left by me. But she hasn't even mentioned that so I am probably wrong. She just doesn't like me. Which hurts a lot.
I've tried everything and it hasn't worked. I don't ever get mad or even like respond to her meanness but it doesn't matter. She hasn't even really been nice. I just love her so much that I deal.

It hurts to be dumped and it hurts not to have a relationship and those can hurt more than staying in engagement with someone you may not like. Maybe she's trying to straddle that fence -- she isn't initiating a breakup (as far as I can read?) and also she isn't being kind to you.

What's important here is that you get to make choices, too -- not just her.

It's OK to choose to try to repair the relationship -- if that's what you want and choose to do. We can walk with you in that.

It's also OK to realize that just like everyone else here (me included), all of our romantic relationships have been failures until our current one. We can't "collect" and hold on to all our romantic relationships at once, I'd think. We have to face the hurt of things falling apart, and not being liked, and initiating breakups, and being dumped, and stuff coming out of the blue. It's painful at a core level, especially if we struggle with accepting ourselves.

I think the worst case scenario would be to try to reconnect with her without learning new tools and skills. Trying to keep it together but without a new approach.

Ultimately, though, what's critical for you to get clarity on is what you want, no matter what anyone else is doing.

What do you think?

[LittleRedBarn]

I'm having trouble reconciling these two statements:

"We text all the time. Constantly."

and

"She just doesn't like me. Which hurts a lot...I don't ever get mad or even like respond to her meanness but it doesn't matter .She hasn't even really been nice."

This sounds like you are on the receiving end of a continuous barrage of mean, hurtful texts. Is that true?

If so, why is it okay for you to continue reading them?

[jaded7]

I'm having trouble reconciling these two statements:

"We text all the time. Constantly."

and

"She just doesn't like me. Which hurts a lot...I don't ever get mad or even like respond to her meanness but it doesn't matter .She hasn't even really been nice."

This sounds like you are on the receiving end of a continuous barrage of mean, hurtful texts. Is that true?

If so, why is it okay for you to continue reading them?

I was thinking the same thing LittleRedBarn. But, then again, I recognized that this describes much of the last 5 months of my relationship. I couldn't even tell if she liked me, what with all the snapping at me and judging and putting me down. But, she still would text or call, almost invariably for 'support' or 'validation' of some kind. I would say "she hasn't even really been nice" would capture those months.

This sounds like the fully matured devaluation stage....they need you, but resent you for it. They dislike you, but depend on your emotional validation. They take, but don't give.

For the OP....I did not know this was happening in my relationship. I was just confused all the time, just like you are. I couldn't tell if she really was trying to dump me...but then she'd call and want to be supported with something, or forward her ex-husband's emails and texts to me and want to me validate for her what a jerk she was...so I then concluded she did like me??? But then the next day I would text and ask her to lunch, she'd ignore it. Call as a follow up, and she wouldn't answer. Leave a voicemail, and she never called me back. The very next day after she sent me her exhusbands email and called for validation.

It's a confusing place to be, I know.

[lauraglittering]

Hi! This is exactly what my boyfriend of one year is doing to me. Again. It already happend like way too many times, then he would always come back once I couldnt do it anymore and stopped contact. Always promising it wont happen again,  but always did.

[jaded7]

Hi! This is exactly what my boyfriend of one year is doing to me. Again. It already happend like way too many times, then he would always come back once I couldnt do it anymore and stopped contact. Always promising it wont happen again,  but always did.

It's part of the dynamic in so many of these relationships. The promises are to get you back, but then the unconscious defense mechanisms come into play again once they start to feel engulfed in the relationship, which causes them to distance and become irritable and critical. So we pull back in order to protect ourselves, then they panic at the feeling of 'rejection' or 'abandonment' and make promises to and declare their love. Or, at this point they may become even more critical and punishing for you having 'destroyed' the relationship with your natural pull back.

You can't win, it seems. No matter what you do, it's our fault the relationship isn't 'working'.  They can't seem to see that the put downs, the criticism, the anger, the yelling, the name calling, the ghosting, the belittling......THESE are the reasons why the relationship isn't working.

If I finally had started to have enough of it all, and felt I was just being demeaned constantly and not considered an actual person who has needs and value, I would intentionally stop trying with communication-texts and calls. I would respond, I would answer the phone, but I didn't actively try to communicate and share my life since she didn't seem to want to hear any of it, and I always seemed to be doing things wrong. It was then, every time, that she suddenly found interest in sex and 'connecting', and would start talking about it, wanting to come over, when we hadn't been together in months and she would explode at me in anger when I tried to initiate, and had ignored for months my texts and calls to come over.

In hindsight, I see this now as a manipulation......guys all want sex, I can pull him back in with it. When I said 'no', or told her not to come over....oh boy did the anger come out.

[melroseesq88]

I think they go back and forth. My bf for example had demonized his mother for years and years. Now he is back to being ok with her, but demonizing her bf and a few other people.