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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Got an email... can we meet for lunch sometime  (Read 1195 times)
C12P21
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« on: March 06, 2010, 04:23:05 PM »

I received an email "I valued our time together and am fond of you, adore your children and grandchildren, would like to meet sometime for lunch or coffee but don't think you are ready for it yet. Each contact brings a flurry of phone messages so try not to leave any, I end up not listening to them anyway. Our meeting in December was good, we discussed what happened, drama, distance, etc. x

As I read this I thought, what? I haven't emailed or left messages for a long while now. The messages were about closure. The meeting in December was a chance meeting and NONE of the things he mentioned were discussed. I simply told him I wished him well. He began to cry but was aloof and indifferent. I felt good about saying my goodbyes, thanks and wish you well. This email brought me to tears. I left a voice message stating, "You sh##t all over our relationship and expect me to trust you? Then you justify your behavior by being critical of the distance, my children, my schedule. These were all things we discussed and you reassured me you were fine with the whole mixed bag. If you weren't you had a responsibility to discuss these issues, no, the day we broke up was all about your desire for another woman and jumping into that relationship. I cannot fathom what you expect from me, you can begin by apologising for the things you said to me that day before I would even consider meeting you for lunch or coffee. As much as I would love to tell you what I think about you to your face I cannot go there with you. ".

NO response. Today I am going for a run. I have been crying and feel so sad again. I know I will get through this. My T and I discussed my father and the similarities between the exNPDbf and dad. Dad was charming, but devalued my mother and siblings, and me. He was also extremely abusive. I suspect the exNPDbf only wants to toy with me some more. And thats the hook, I think. As a little girl I would wait for my father to act lovingly again. But I never knew when he would be loving or give me a kick. Thats how I felt in this relationship. I began to shut down and shut off toward him as the push/pull was painful. So now Mr. Nice Guy sends an email, but not addressing the issues. I might consider it if the email opened with "I want to apologize for the following, and IF you can forgive me, I would like to meet with you for coffee." I have zero trust in him. Who behaves in such a manner, loving, supportive, caring and then throws in nasty comments, mind games as he did. Plus dating someone within days if not during our relationship. Then months of limited to NC and then this?

In out guys I need support.
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louise12

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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2010, 04:58:54 PM »

Hello there!

My advice would be don't meet them at any point of contact with you. 

It is a shock reality that these people who are the very ones who accuse us but believe me it is them that are doing it (seeing others whilst seeing you).

That is what has happened with me.  I was the secret when he had a girlfriend already.

It's not worth my time getting angry as this is what he wants.  I am stronger than that!

Good luck to her that's all I say!
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schwing
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2010, 05:52:16 PM »

Hi C12P21,

I received an email "I valued our time together and am fond of you, adore your children and grandchildren, would like to meet sometime for lunch or coffee but don't think you are ready for it yet. Each contact brings a flurry of phone messages so try not to leave any, I end up not listening to them anyway. Our meeting in December was good, we discussed what happened, drama, distance, etc. x

As I read this I thought, what? I haven't emailed or left messages for a long while now. The messages were about closure. The meeting in December was a chance meeting and NONE of the things he mentioned were discussed. I simply told him I wished him well. He began to cry but was aloof and indifferent. I felt good about saying my goodbyes, thanks and wish you well. This email brought me to tears.

There is a reason why his narrative does not coincide with your memory; and it is because his recollection is a delusion.  At the time that he wrote that e-mail, that is honestly not only how he believed it occurred, but it is how he NEEDED it to have occurred.  

It is not a game.  It is not a tactic.  It is delusion.

I left a voice message stating, "You sh##t all over our relationship and expect me to trust you? Then you justify your behavior by being critical of the distance, my children, my schedule. These were all things we discussed and you reassured me you were fine with the whole mixed bag. If you weren't you had a responsibility to discuss these issues, no, the day we broke up was all about your desire for another woman and jumping into that relationship. I cannot fathom what you expect from me, you can begin by apologising for the things you said to me that day before I would even consider meeting you for lunch or coffee. As much as I would love to tell you what I think about you to your face I cannot go there with you. ".

NO response.

I hope for your sake there continues to be no response.  There is the possibility that he will engage in order to "set the record straight."  Your response is most likely not one that will allow him to maintain his previous delusion, so he may wish to secure another delusion.  Perhaps one where you are unreasonable, disordered and whatever suits his emotional needs.  I might bet money that he will wish to be the "victim."

Today I am going for a run. I have been crying and feel so sad again. I know I will get through this. My T and I discussed my father and the similarities between the exNPDbf and dad. Dad was charming, but devalued my mother and siblings, and me. He was also extremely abusive. I suspect the exNPDbf only wants to toy with me some more. And thats the hook, I think. As a little girl I would wait for my father to act lovingly again. But I never knew when he would be loving or give me a kick. Thats how I felt in this relationship. I began to shut down and shut off toward him as the push/pull was painful.

I am a strong believer that nothing is more comfortable and enticing as is the familiar.  And it sounds like the dynamic of your FOO is like mine in that what is familiar is also terribly unhealthy for your emotional well-being.  I urge you to face situations that you fear because they are new, in order to avoid the hell of the familiar.

So now Mr. Nice Guy sends an email, but not addressing the issues. I might consider it if the email opened with "I want to apologize for the following, and IF you can forgive me, I would like to meet with you for coffee." I have zero trust in him. Who behaves in such a manner, loving, supportive, caring and then throws in nasty comments, mind games as he did. Plus dating someone within days if not during our relationship. Then months of limited to NC and then this?

This is not a "mind game."  This is delusion born of mental disorder.  It is certainly not the behavior of an emotionally healthy adult man.

In out guys I need support.

x

Best wishes, Schwing
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Runningasfastasican
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2010, 06:31:00 PM »

I just want to send good wishes to you, since it sounds like the crap that he is throwing at you is just that ... ."crap"... .if you and he don't have any property to divide, live in seperate houses, don't share children, then the only purpose of communication, serves to basically hurt you... .so I guess my suggestion is not to respond to any of his crap... .write about it, exercise, tell the T... .but dont respond... .heck if you can deleate e-mails without reading, even better, same with texts or phone messages... .I wish I could do that... .right now we are going through divorce... .but once that order comes out (22 days away)and all the property is divided... .that is my intention... .I hope this helps a little ... .take care... .
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C12P21
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2010, 07:41:44 PM »

Schwing. You are so right.

Excerpt
Perhaps one where you are unreasonable, disordered and whatever suits his emotional needs.  I might bet money that he will wish to be the "victim."

He often discussed his ex-wife as being unbalanced and he the victim. I suspect she broke down due to living with a narcissist. I also suspect he wishes me to rant at him in order for him to play victim, he told me when he left our relationship he "left it all on the field and had nothing left to give". He said this as if we had disputes that were never resolved and he had to really work at our relationship. He never expressed any displeasure except twice in a temper tantrum when I couldn't meet him. He wouldn't allow discussions about our relationship he would pass them off, make a joke, but never let me know the inner workings of his needs. In the beginning stages of the relationship he was Mr. Sensitive and Vulnerable. Looking back on this, I think he was just exhausted at keeping up the front. His behavior the last two times I saw him plus the comments of friends and family was "he was never a happy man, he has been very happy with you". Anyway, it hurts me that I feel into such a black, dark, emotional void and left messages asking for clarity, closure and discussing my emotional pain. So yes, if he wishes to paint me crazy I probably fit the bill and for the most part I felt crazy those first weeks and month. What better way to create drama he supposedly avoids than to end a relationship suddenly without discussion and limited conversations. This way he has control and its a win/win situation for him, he holds the key and in my confusion I was trying to reach out to him. Yes, it is delusional thinking, he thinks he is wonderful to women and that women use him and hurt him. My intentions while dating him was to be supportive and understanding. It was when I began to assert my emotional needs and create boundaries he bailed.

Excerpt
I just want to send good wishes to you, since it sounds like the crap that he is throwing at you is just that ... ."crap"... .

Yes, when he shovels it my way he always leaves a little   and when I respond with a truthful statement of the issues, he leaves a curt and cryptic response and no x. Very strange. I quit contact.

Thanks all for responding, I feel better.

C
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schwing
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2010, 08:30:54 PM »

He never expressed any displeasure except twice in a temper tantrum when I couldn't meet him. He wouldn't allow discussions about our relationship he would pass them off, make a joke, but never let me know the inner workings of his needs.

That doesn't sound like a man who is comfortable with the nitty gritty of a relationship based in reality.  I think that so long as one maintains the appearance of happiness (while with him), then he might actually believe himself happy.

In the beginning stages of the relationship he was Mr. Sensitive and Vulnerable. Looking back on this, I think he was just exhausted at keeping up the front. His behavior the last two times I saw him plus the comments of friends and family was "he was never a happy man, he has been very happy with you".

In the "beginning stages of the relationship" it was all fantasy, there was nothing to contradict his delusions, because he did not know you; perhaps he was happy interacting with the illusion of who needed you to be for him.  But reality never measures up to fantasy and illusion.

It was when I began to assert my emotional needs and create boundaries he bailed.

It was when true intimacy started knocking on his door that he bailed.  A relationship founded in reality is one where each partner express and meet (to the best of their ability) each others emotional needs, and respects and observes each others personal boundaries.

What is difficult for us nons to deal with is our efforts to reconcile who we thought they were (or who they led us to believe they were) with who they have since turned out to become.  It takes time.  Keep at it.  And it will get easier.
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2010, 08:47:17 PM »

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBfWJDg9Pwk
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C12P21
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2010, 10:24:04 PM »

Excerpt
That doesn't sound like a man who is comfortable with the nitty gritty of a relationship based in reality.  I think that so long as one maintains the appearance of happiness (while with him), then he might actually believe himself happy.

Yes, that is what happened, one week before the end I sent him an email discussing my concerns about us, that he was giving and generous and as much as I appreciated his support I was concerned he was unable to receive love. I needed the relationship to be on my terms,too. He took this as an arguement, that I wasn't happy with the status quo. And you know, I wasn't. This is one of the reasons I suspect he is a narcissist. Reality, discussion, and negotiation is normal, every day stuff. Romance, jet setting, endless concerts and ball games is fantasy. He prefers the illusion. Although in the beginning, it was very different, he helped with yard work, we remodeled my home, he would play ball with my son. And then, he lost interest in it all and wanted me at his home during our time together. I missed the earlier stages of the relationship, the sharing and every day interactions. His personal boundaries were hard to know as he wasn't forth coming, it was as though I were constantly being tested as to how well I could read him. When I asked him what he needed he would say "nothing Darling, just you". 
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C12P21
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2010, 10:40:06 PM »

And one other thing, I suspect he was jealous of my care and concern for my children as I would discuss their lives with him. He was supportive and caring but got really quiet one day when I discussed verbal abuse and my 13 year old sons disrespect at times. He said "its hard on a boy when parents divorce" I said "Yes, but this issue is about the domestic violence, he was raised listening to his father brow beat me and at times he goes there, too. But he is in a boys group and I am sure this phase will end."

Later he told me he was sick of the drama and me discussing my children with him. Funny, he could talk endlessly about his kids. I think he really wanted to be the certain of attention in my life.

I know he is unbalanced and ill, I know this is for the best, but right now I feel like a wrung out, tired person. Healing will take time as I miss the illusion of him and the happier memories. Every time I go there I think of the last conversations and tell myself, I deserve better, I don't have to save this guy. I know he wants me to participate in the delusion and if I won't then I am black listed. I thought I was going crazy the way it went down but know it is part of the disorder. Plus his family talking to me about his narcissism helped validate what I was going through. It gets easier each day but my home is full of memories of him, painting, laughing as we watched the paint dry, mowing the lawn, and him pitching balls to my son. For a brief time, a few years, I had the life I had dreamed of- a loving partner involved with my family- but the past months kept waiting for the intimacy to deepen and grow as we got to know each other better. He just couldn't go there, the recipical nature of relationships, the give and take. He was perfectly happy to give and give, but could never state his needs-and I began to despair I would never know him. Now I do, and its hard. Thanks Schwing, you always have such sound advice. You mentioned about facing what I fear. I feared dating him as I did not want to get hurt. Now facing the unknown will be going after the Masters degree and seeing what the next chapter brings.

2010, I watched the video and laughed alot.

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