Trying to understand this love business the second time around.

[Newstart08]

2 years out of the BPD warzone and I have done quite a bit of self-evaluation.  Clearly, I was a love addict. I loved with such intensity.  The lengths I was willing to go for the sake of love.  I honestly thought that was how it was supposed to be. I have been dating someone else for a year and a half.  I remember how I first entered that relationship - throwing all of myself into it.  The more I tried to bring in old habits the more that the man I was dating kept me from them.  I only realized this quite recently.   I was such a basketcase.  So now I am in unfamiliar territory - dating a man who loves me but doesn't pressure me - almost forcing me to get to know myself.  Consequently, I have never been more confident in myself than I am now.  I see him 2 days a week.  I am developing outside interests, new friends, and actually being comfortable with being alone.  We share some interests but not all of them.  He encourages me.  Makes coffee for me and leaves fresh towels for me on the mornings I stay with him.  Gives me his jacket when it's cold.  Kind day to day gestures. He values my opinions.  Compliments me openly.  He isn't pressuring me to move in.  Respects my time with my kids.  Does not come to my rescue allowing me to develop the confidence to rely on myself. He has given me the space to discover myself but has stood by my side through the craziness of a high-conflict divorce.  For the first time in my life I feel okay when I am on my own and okay when I am with him.  I can relax.  I don't need his approval for every decision I make.  I don't have this hole when he's not with me.  It is very unfamiliar territory.  My challenge right now is to come to terms or reconcile with this new territory.  We have an excellent physical relationship but the relationship overall doesn't have that extreme live or die intensity. I understand that the cost of that was far too great.  So, how does a recovering love addict fully embrace a new definition of love and a healthy relationship without feeling as if something is missing?

[life2live]

Hmm . . . . are we dating the same man?    

No, honestly, I could have written this almost word for word about my BF,  we have been dating 1 1/2 years also and I've been out of OZ a little over 2 years.

So, how does a recovering love addict fully embrace a new definition of love and a healthy relationship without feeling as if something is missing?

I will admit, the intensity isn't there with BF as it was with xbph, but in a good way. I now realize just how much that intensity in the relationship with xbph took away my time and energy from other areas of my life. It's about finding a balance and while balance isn't exciting it's healthy and healthy is good. You can find momentary excitment somewhere else, like sky diving or bungee jumping, something that gets the heart pumping, the adrenaline flowing, but temporarily.

I think a lot of non's have the feeling of "something's missing" when we're in a healthy relationship. What's missing is the insanity, the intensity, the disorder, the highs and lows. Maybe we're adrenaline junkies in disguise, we seek our fixes from our relationships instead of those that do extreme sports, for example. It is an addiction, one that we can overcome, but like all addictions, it takes time, patience, practice, ect. We have to relearn how to love, how to be in a relationship, how to love ourselves, ect. I think we will always crave the intensity we had with our BP's just like an alcoholic or ex smoker craves alcohol and cigarettes, but it's up to us to realize it wasn't healthy and it's not what's best for us and we can move forward.

I guess I really don't have any answers for you, but I can understand where you're coming from  xoxox

[Newstart08]

That's encouraging, thanks.  It's good to hear that come from someone else.  Taking personal inventory is starting to make sense.  It's cool to be on this leg of the journey despite how difficulty it is to face our own shortcomings.  To be able to see where I have come from... .eye opening most days.

I am taking a solo trip to the jungles of central america next week to get a healthy adrenaline kick. Before I married by xbph my friends always identified me as the adventurous type.  It's nice to begin to reclaim that identity again.  Bf is completely supportive -- no naysaying, and are you really sure you should be doing that? He gets that this something I need to do alone. Yes, I am looking for the rushes in another way that aren't so self-destructive and instead self-building. Relying more and more on myself is unbelievably therapeutic.  "Relearn"... .I like that.  I think that's where I am at.  Thank you for sharing your experience.

[sarah1234]

reading your post made me cry today. I am very emotional and am quite newly into actually looking into myself and I am finding it hard. I am happy for you

I can't explain how I am feeling very well but it is really good to know that maybe I can be happy in a relationship how you describe it one day - it isn't impossible and it can't happen now.

I recognise myself in so many of the things you have said about love addiction.

I make myself unhappy because I don't want to be like that, but I realise after events that have happened this weekend, I am trying to create the intensity with people, or just trying to find some connection and scaring myself a bit. I am not even lonely I just miss attention and feel like there is some sort of hole. Which has been made worse, not by this post but I got someone's attention recently and had a great time, sort of. But now I feel rejected but it wasn't even my fault so I am not sure why I feel that way

Waffling on! sorry

I am glad that you have found some happiness for yourself and hope it continues to grow

[kennumber777]

I'm sorry... .I'm just gonna go ahead and say it.


  Women can be bizarre sometimes... .

  You were not addicted to love... .you just made a wrong choice. When you love someone, you WANT to ask his or her opinion,you WANT to be dependant. You had it right in the first place. You just couldn't discern before hand.

[sarah1234]

lets just say, I am 30 and haven't learnt my lesson yet. This wasn't the first crazy messed up relationship that has all gone wrong, and I can't seem to get out of the patterns and cycles

I am addicted to love. I am not addicted to relationships - because I can be happily single. Its weird and hard to explain.

[kennumber777]

I know what you're saying. Just do keep in mind that its OK to give of yourself 100%. Its never easy to love. You know what I mean?

  I mean, God Himself loves with no return... .!

[LifesaDance]

So, how does a recovering love addict fully embrace a new definition of love and a healthy relationship without feeling as if something is missing?

To answer your question, I believe you already are. A little at a time. Sounds like you have someone in your life who is patient enough to allow you to grow as you need to.

Enjoy

[C2]

Interesting, I was listening to a radio program the other day hosted by an MD/PhD who also practices alternative medicine. She was discussing people who are adrenaline junkies of one sort or another, e.g. need high risk hobbies, obsess over reality TV, drawn to toxic relationships, work in adrenaline infused situations, like firefighting, law enforcement, emergency medicine, etc. She thinks many people substitute one adrenaline-producing addiction for another, none of which is good for our health, because it trashes the adrenal system and causes dangerous sequelae.

Her solution was to start eliminating anything that causes that roller coaster feeling, whether it's a relationship, watching the evening news, or bungee jumping. She also said that she recommended DBT for non-BPDs, because it deals with many of the same issues, primarily the need for up and down behavior.

I think we can be happy on our own, love 100% when we are with someone, but not be "addicted" to love. Addiction, to me, implies a high and a low and a feeling of never having enough.

[Newstart08]

Hmmmm... .something to chew on.

[2010]

I'm sorry... .I'm just gonna go ahead and say it. Women can be bizarre sometimes... .You were not addicted to love... .you just made a wrong choice. When you love someone, you WANT to ask his or her opinion,you WANT to be dependant. You had it right in the first place. You just couldn't discern before hand.

(To me, this statement is Bizarre, but enough with that.)

Newstart08, You are really doing well and asking all the right questions. Much of the self-help industry concentrates on free will and self-determination and these are all fine and upstanding things- but they don't address the well-worn pathways that we've taken for most of our life and WHY.

We're almost like computers that need to reboot after a system crash- all our data needs to be retrieved and placed in its rightful place for the programs to work again- but there's this darn bug that keeps crashing the system. We really have to get at the bottom of what's causing it- and the possibility that it's an underlying programming that we have to erase.

Brain circuitry does get worn-in like a well-used pathway over the years. It takes some determination to say I'm not going to walk down that same road again.  And the brain questions this, because its a well used path and quite habitual and well... .just comfortable to walk down- because we know what to expect- after all, we've walked it forever- it has all of our childhood memories stored there.  There's lots of danger and excitement- almost too much to handle - but in our minds we were prepared- maybe even looking ahead to the next disaster.

Now you're on a quiet, peaceful path. The Brain is waiting, sensing, understanding- looking for danger up ahead. It's what you were used to. You've experienced this possibility of drama your whole life. Now its missing. Your brain is upset, and not used to the lack of stimulation firing the circuitry. The drama you once perceived as love is gone. The area of your brain that got the jolt is now asking for a hit... .just one hit of pain.

So your brain misses the old love. That spark of anger, the fear, the abuse; it was all there on the old road, but not on the new. Your brain wants it again. Your brain tells you that it cant be found with this new relationship... .Love addiction is a valid theory- but it can only be understood well when one understands that the idea of addictive love includes longing and pain from avoidant partners.

A good read on this dilemma can be found on Stanton Peeles website. It's a hard read, but worth a try. Hope you like it.

www.peele.net/lib/laa4.html

[francienolan]

A good read on this dilemma can be found on Stanton Peeles website. It's a hard read, but worth a try. Hope you like it.

www.peele.net/lib/laa4.html

That was an interesting read. It all makes sense, but I have to admit I feel a little depressed and discouraged after reading it. I may have to let it soak in and read it again tomorrow.

[temp101]

What I am so grateful for is that in January, I had absolutely nothing to do. Our business was winding up for the prior year. No classes in college. No local job as no one is hiring. Son in that good school, living with his dad. Husband on mandotory overtime and working a lot of weekends. Me too afraid of my husband's punitive nature to start up my home business.

So there I was, just me and these walls. And I had a lot of time to think. To think my thoughts. To test if I could shut off the tv, put down a book, and just spend an hour with me. My thoughts. Hands idle. What would I think? And I came to the conclusion that on my own, I am peaceful and content. Without someone pushing, pulling, shoving and dragging me around, I am a naturally happy person. I can spend an hour with myself and come out on the other side just fine. (Could pwBPD do that?)

And I started to enjoy that peace. By the end of January, I was craving that peace. By February, I was filing for divorce (he did something awful; it was my green light.) And in February, his nuisance calls stopped. The calls that came in 3-4 times a day, where he would interrogate me, pushing me against a mental wall and demanding I justify the use of my time.

The peace and happiness that came in March -- despite the missteps, doubts, confusion, tears and FOG that were about the divorce -- was trascendent. When I got away from his emotional terror control over my mind, I started looking forward to building a life on my own. And eventually I got to that peaceful, warm stage of acceptance. There isn't as much fear or fog when you reach the stage of acceptance. It's more like watching yourself in the 3rd party. And, if I haven't said it before, it's peaceful .

Now, for the OP, it takes practice, practice, practice -- and setting aside time for you to be by yourself, undistracted, to review how good 'content' really feels compared to 'chaos' .

[OnceConfused]

Newstart08:

I am surprised at your feeling of uncertainty of your new or perhaps a little longing for the high intensity of BPD relationship, even after what you have gone through w BPD.

One of my favorite authors is Dr Gary Chapman, who wrote the must-read FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES, just came out with a new book called "Love is a way of life". You might want to check out his books for he talks a lot about love and how to sustain it. Interestingly in his new book, he conceded that many people read and know about the love languages but some reasons they came up EMPTY in the relationship. So he added that love is not a feeling but an act. BUt the act and word will be empty if we don't have the loving attitudes. These attitudes will drive us to be loving and be loved.

Your new friend sounds very stable and is willing to let you be who you are. THAT IS WONDERFUL. You should be thankful for having found him, instead of looking for the high intensity of falling in love.

Love him and be loved by him. Remember falling in love (the initial high feeling) will fade after two years, and authentic love is the one that sustains you. Authentic love is not about the big things like a big diamond, but it is about doing simple stuffs like letting you be you, like loving you just the way you are, like letting you bare your soul, like giving you a 30 sec massage.

Enjoy your new relationship, it sounds FINE to me. Turn the light on GREEN, and LET GO.

[Newstart08]

So much wisdom on this board.  I appreciate it.  The trip to Central America gave me some time to be by myself, to do the things I enjoy, and take some inventory.  I was working on some personal inventory exercises and I have come to realize that these patterns have been going on my entire life. It is going to take some time to re-program.  I am giving myself permission for that.

[muddychicken]

I was in the same boat as you with the new relationship I am in and have been on line and exploring this with my T. I found this, I forget where but it makes alot of sense for my own situation anyway... .

The cost of not resolving core wounds is reflected in every decision and life choice we make professionally and personally, and crucially impacts romantic endeavors. A caring, mutually nurturing and enhancing relational experience is completely foreign to most Caregivers. They've seldom (if ever) received affection, support and positive mirroring from a non-abandoning source, nor have they experienced loving, that's unaccompanied by pain. The Caregiver repeatedly welcomes relationships that activate dramatic/painful sensations associated with early attachment difficulties, while routinely rejecting those who are actually equipped to meet his/her needs. There's little capacity to respond passionately to a healthy/rewarding dynamic, because the familiar ache of intense longing and yearning--which has come to be interpreted as "Love," isn't present with an available partner! One's perception of such a relationship is that "something's missing," as it cannot trigger feelings that parallel his disappointing/unrequited attachment experiences in childhood.

[C2]

That's a great point, SSM, and one to which I bet most of us here can relate. Honestly, I've dated a few guys who might have been healthy enough, but as far as long term romantic relationships go, I don't think I've ever had a "caring, mutually nurturing and enhancing relational experience." So how do you get past the "something's missing" part? I see a lot of people posting here about how they are bored in newer, healthier relationships after their BPs. Of course it's not limited to this board. My neighbor, for example, just broke up with her long distance boyfriend because she "didn't yearn for him" or feel bad when they were apart. To me that sounded healthy, but to her it meant it wasn't love!

I'm sure many of us walk the fine line between passion and dysfunction in our mates. I seem to meet people (men) who are of one camp or another: passionate, interesting men who turn out to have disordered personalities or nice guys who are complete dullards with whom I have nothing in common.

I think part of it is where I live--a college town in the midwest that thinks it's a city when actually it's just a small town with fairly limited views. I believe the BPs I dated appealed to me because they stuck out for not having that plodding, dinner-on-the-table-by-5:30, in-bed-by-9:00, why-would-I-go-to-Europe-when-I-could-just-go-to-Disneyworld mentality. It doesn't help that there aren't a lot of single men here, and the ones who are seem to all want 20-somethings. I'm hoping my prospects improve when I move to the west coast and a larger urban area. Not that there aren't BPs everywhere, but I think I'll have a better chance of meeting someone who is emotionally stable AND interesting.

Did your T give you any insight into HOW to break the pattern?

[muddychicken]

It was something I discovered on my own... .my ex would call me 2-3x a day. My new one doesn't... .and I would have these feelings of rejection when the truth is, she's at work and she's busy... .my ex needed constant reassurance that I loved her... .this after 17 years together and 15 years of marriage. My new one doesn't... .my ex only talked about herself... .my new one actually has interest in my day... .my ex and I were inseparable since day 1, my new one and I see eachother 2-3x a week tops... .with my ex, I was a basket case when I was alone... .my new one lets me have my space and interests and when we have plans that don't involve eachother, we don't perseverate on there being a hidden agenda. With my ex, I had to censor my communication, with my new one I don't. WHen my ex and I were dating, I had an adrenaline rush that actually made me feel sick, now I know it wasn;t love but fight or flight. I was telling my T that this sense of calm was making me anxious as I was looking for the other shoe to drop and it took a few weeks to get through that. She attributed that to PTSD. She told me last week that "there are no more IEDs in your life, the war is over."

The person who I have been with for the past 3 months actually grew from a friendship that spawned over a year and a half period. My T feels that during my marriage that I actually centered myself emotionally however since I was caught up living in the land of OZ, I was not experiencing it until I left in 12/09. It is hard to explain but I can actually feel a difference when I'm with her physically and mentally... .no anxiety, no wet blanket and we're not going to Disney on a moments notice anytime soon... .we talk and do not exist from event to event if that makes sense... .

[Newstart08]

Wow.  These posts have been amazing and so insightful.  I agree with the "fight or flight" and that constant adrenaline rush.  "Resolving core wounds."  That's powerful.  I can tell every day that I am working towards healing.  Sometimes it has meant trying to pinpoint those wounds to begin with.  As I bring other people into my life, I am realizing that what I was used to was unbelievably disfunctional.  I did so much work to leave the relationship, and did quite a bit after I left, but have only recently taken over where I left off.  I am learning to question myself more, stop and ask the difficult questions.  Ever the optimist I was hoping 2 years later I would be done with the junk.  You guys are awesome.

[sarah1234]

Thank you for such interesting info, I am really eager to take it on board

For the first time I can remember I have actually made a concious decision to GET OFF the rollercoaster that I had put myself on... .no one else is putting me on this thing... .I actually have a choice! I do not think I realised this before. I would just think 'I have paid my money to this person and they strapped me in... .I just have to sit here' I hope this doens't sound crazy but at some point I realised recently, only I can change these things and WHEN to change these things - not wait until you are being sick and dizzy on the rollercoaster and wet from the rain, but just looking at it, or even sitting in the seat and realising you won't enjoy the ride, so finding something else to do that isn't a rush, and learning how to enjoy things that are not a rush. Its ok to be bored, its ok (but not always nice) to be lonely and actually you won't die if someone isn't calling/texting/trying to take you on a date and you wont be alone forever. 

I sort of look in the mirror now and say to myself 'you are nice, you are attractive, you deserve to be treated nicely' and I must start believing it.

I also totally agree with the poster who said about dull men. There are plenty. I never look at them. I always pass them by. I also can be shallow about their looks, but if they have that 'turbulent attraction' about them it doesn't seem to matter to me what they look like. i don't know what a healthy relationship looks like. My parents don't have one. Right now I think I would question all motives made by a normal, caring, decent, nurturing guy because I am only used to those sort of actions having a pitfall or a hidden meaning.