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unknown
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« on: April 11, 2010, 12:16:56 PM »

know that there treating there partners like crap?

beacuse mine treated me like crap, and and i almsot broke up with her many times and she cried and went balistic so i didnt.

then she would continue to treat me like crap then i finnaly got the courage to end it with her.

she was shocked that i broke up , almost as if she thought it was totally my fault and she did nothing wrong.


the only thing she said that sounded like she knew what she did was she said that for the last couple weeks of the relationship she felt like she wasnt loving it to the fullest and just started getting mad at everything... .
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VB
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2010, 12:28:56 PM »

know that there treating there partners like crap?

beacuse mine treated me like crap, and and i almsot broke up with her many times and she cried and went balistic so i didnt.

then she would continue to treat me like crap then i finnaly got the courage to end it with her.

she was shocked that i broke up , almost as if she thought it was totally my fault and she did nothing wrong.


the only thing she said that sounded like she knew what she did was she said that for the last couple weeks of the relationship she felt like she wasnt loving it to the fullest and just started getting mad at everything... .

My personal opinion? Yes they know, but they can't help it. Or can they? It is so open ended. Mine saw how destroyed I was when he raged at me, yet he kept doing it again and again. It had to register? Surely? Unknown, don't try and make sense of it... .
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sarah1234
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2010, 03:47:28 PM »

its very complicated

At the time when they are doing the crap treating, its usually combined within an argument/blow up/bad behaviour between the both of you, and they feel utterly justified that they are correct in their behaviour and reasoning. Afterwards, people like you and I may walk away and re-play the episode over in our heads

We will then maybe get a perspective on it, accept our position/take blame and fault for various parts and want to discuss it with a view to resolving issues and moving on.

My exuBPDbf couldnt do this part - although deep down he would realise he had done something 'wrong' he would replay only parts of the argument, and only the parts he wanted to - the negative parts where I was in the wrong. It was literally as if he would completely forget his role at all. He would then push relentlessly to get the justification that I was wrong, and he was the wronged victim.

An example is: we went out to a party once, he got so drunk he could hardly stand up. A friend and I took him home and tried to put him to bed. At home he started raging out of the blue. He smashed up loads of stuff and tried to hurt me. Friend and I left the house. When I returned the next day, he had taken some things and run away. I was hurt and angry, and then started to worry about him. He would then turn up during the next couple of days, but instead of being apologetic, he would be angry with me and say 'its your fault, you were flirting'/x-y-z (that I had done wrong, and so, had actually caused him to do what he had done). Trying to work through this was impossible, as all he wanted was my apology and understanding about HIS feelings, but none of mine.

BPD makes it very hard to feel ANY empathy with your loved ones.

When I left him for good, he realised that he had done something bad and treated me badly. but he still to this VERY day will swing from apologising to expecting me to take blame for his own actions.

His 'apology' is just a tool designed to try to get me to talk to him, and give him another chance. As when he doesn't get his own way, he will very quickly swing back to blame - which goes to show he didn't really mean the apology, and doesn't believe he did anything truely wrong!
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muddychicken
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2010, 04:30:50 PM »

for the record mine never raged... .she... how did she put it? Oh yes, she was a "bad arguer". Is that even a word?  
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2010, 05:08:58 PM »

Well Mike it aint a word for us nons   Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) 

Hey mine often went into that much of rage I often looked at him and thought his face would split or indeed burst open just like in the movie terminator  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2010, 06:04:44 PM »

Hi unknown yes they do know that they treat us like crap but they do not care.  It is in my opinion about meeting their own needs and their own objectives in terms of the particular situation they find themselves in. They must at whatever cost try and get rid of whatever is causing them so much pain so of course they know but preservation of themselves is far more fundamental... .

I often said to him "Well didnt you think about about me at all while you were doing this (there was so many incidents) that it would really upset me. He said of course I did but... .He went and did it anyway... .
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LeroyBrown
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2010, 06:38:09 PM »

In my case, I know she knows that she hurt me badly. Whether or not she knows "what" did the hurting or "how" she hurt me would be anyone's guess because of her ability to distort her memory in a manner that would not make her feel shameful, take a piece of her identity, or bruise her ego.

I believe that many pwBPD know that they hurt people, but they are too prideful (yes, pride and a non-existent self-esteem can co-exist) to accept any accountability. I have many examples of this. When I would attempt to call her on her behavior, she would literally say something like, "my phone battery is dying" or "I'm getting on the train and can't talk" and she also raged a couple of times and hung up.

In solidarity,

LB
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unknown
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2010, 11:54:25 PM »

if they know there treating us badly, why do they keep doing it? dont they know its destroying the relationship?
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strangetrip
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2010, 12:39:24 AM »



it seems they just don't think like us, even if their behavior is ruining the relationship it does not register... so it seems. not sure but this about all I can figure out is they dont' think like us...
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sarah1234
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2010, 03:07:16 AM »

They can mainly only focus on how things make them feel - its called empathy to understand how someone else must be feeling.

they also think that you must be feeling the same way you do

for instance now I have left him, he can't understand how I can move on - because he cannot move on. It doesn't matter how many times I tell him how I feel and why I do not want to be with him, he just relates it to how he feels. So it doesn't register for him. He hears the words but he doesn't process them in a normal way.

They also behave in a fight or flight way - their behaviour can be to protect or indulge in their feelings

For instance I believe when my exbf lied to me, he knew it was because what he was doing was wrong, but he wanted to do it so badly that lying to me was his only option. He was going to do it anyway, knew I wouldn't accept it so lying was the only available choice. Lying to him was completely normal,  in his head it was 'because no one understands me' and that I pushed him into a situation where he would have to lie.
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sarah1234
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2010, 03:08:59 AM »

Hi unknown yes they do know that they treat us like crap but they do not care.  It is in my opinion about meeting their own needs and their own objectives in terms of the particular situation they find themselves in. They must at whatever cost try and get rid of whatever is causing them so much pain so of course they know but preservation of themselves is far more fundamental... .

I often said to him "Well didnt you think about about me at all while you were doing this (there was so many incidents) that it would really upset me. He said of course I did but... .He went and did it anyway... .

this is sort of what I was trying to say, its very much my experience
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VB
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2010, 04:04:41 AM »

When I would attempt to call her on her behavior, she would literally say something like, "my phone battery is dying" or "I'm getting on the train and can't talk" and she also raged a couple of times and hung up.

I used to get that ALL the time! My battery is dying, getting on the train, blah blah! 
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VB
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2010, 04:05:52 AM »

They can mainly only focus on how things make them feel - its called empathy to understand how someone else must be feeling.

they also think that you must be feeling the same way you do

for instance now I have left him, he can't understand how I can move on - because he cannot move on. It doesn't matter how many times I tell him how I feel and why I do not want to be with him, he just relates it to how he feels. So it doesn't register for him. He hears the words but he doesn't process them in a normal way.

They also behave in a fight or flight way - their behaviour can be to protect or indulge in their feelings

For instance I believe when my exbf lied to me, he knew it was because what he was doing was wrong, but he wanted to do it so badly that lying to me was his only option. He was going to do it anyway, knew I wouldn't accept it so lying was the only available choice. Lying to him was completely normal,  in his head it was 'because no one understands me' and that I pushed him into a situation where he would have to lie.

Sounds like mine! It i s all about how HE feels!
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2010, 04:18:55 AM »

You cannot compare your experience with the experience of a Borderline Personality Disordered person. What you need to understand is that she may have never known what it's like to experience calm.  Calm is frightening. The only time she may have known it is when she was waiting for something bad to happen.  The wait is so anxiety provoking- that she may very well push an argument in order to reassure herself that she is right about the World- that it is filled with arguments and anger.  This is all that many BPD's have ever known- especially if they grew up with BPD witch Mothers.

It has nothing to do with what you did or didn't do.
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turtlesoup
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2010, 05:50:53 AM »

You cannot compare your experience with the experience of a Borderline Personality Disordered person. What you need to understand is that she may have never known what it's like to experience calm.  Calm is frightening. The only time she may have known it is when she was waiting for something bad to happen.  The wait is so anxiety provoking- that she may very well push an argument in order to reassure herself that she is right about the World- that it is filled with arguments and anger.  This is all that many BPD's have ever known- especially if they grew up with BPD witch Mothers.

It has nothing to do with what you did or didn't do.

This is the point. Sometimes, especially if you are freshly out of it, I think its really hard to empathise with this. You feel so hurt and the immediate thing is over-reaction and over caution and some black and white painting of our own. I am still on a course to truly forgiving her sins commited against me, I have to remember to her they were not sins. I suppose its like being a high court judge, but the courtroom is just my emotions and the jurys is composed of 12 individual mes.

We do have to come to terms with the fact that BPD is a real thing, with patterns and they didn't ask for it. It's so easy to get caught up with it, had she tourettes and I was offended by potty mouth, I wouldn't have hung with her, I'd be off in seconds, BPD is entrapping by nature. I imagine being able to put it all down to a mental illness, having empathy for her and her childhood and picking out the good parts of the relationship to hang onto is a truly great place to be, that we should work towards, and afterall, it's also a place, because of BPD black n white and inability to be self critical, they will never reach.
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VB
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2010, 06:15:07 AM »

My Mother has BPD. You would think I should know how to cope!
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DAS
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2010, 09:31:18 AM »

know that there treating there partners like crap?

beacuse mine treated me like crap, and and i almsot broke up with her many times and she cried and went balistic so i didnt.

then she would continue to treat me like crap then i finnaly got the courage to end it with her.

she was shocked that i broke up , almost as if she thought it was totally my fault and she did nothing wrong.


the only thing she said that sounded like she knew what she did was she said that for the last couple weeks of the relationship she felt like she wasnt loving it to the fullest and just started getting mad at everything... .

Sometimes... .yes... .mine apologized once in bed together for always getting so angry at me. I said that I was sorry for doing things that make her mad. She said then, "It isn't you. It's just that you are there."

So profound and self-realizing. It's not that they don't understand they can hurt others... .It's just that most of the time, especially during rages, it doesn't matter.
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2010, 06:29:37 PM »

Excerpt
We do have to come to terms with the fact that BPD is a real thing, with patterns and they didn't ask for it. It's so easy to get caught up with it, had she tourettes and I was offended by potty mouth, I wouldn't have hung with her, I'd be off in seconds, BPD is entrapping by nature.

That's it in a nutshell. And the entrapment happens when your partner appears completely normal- above average really- and then BANG- something goes wrong, like a glitch in the wiring.

It's that glitch that breaks your heart and makes you want to fix them. For most of us, this can be so obsessive, that it borders on detrimental. Then, when we think we have it under control ( a long talk, a carefully worded letter, a poignant plea) we get things going well again and BAM, there's the glitch again when we least expect it. And now- a pattern emerges and we begin to look for the reasons for the glitch (the FOG) Somehow we're the ones now suffering (alongside them) from the effects of BPD - For nons, there's this post traumatic stress (walking on eggshells) and worry that the glitch will be triggered again- and it always does.  It always gets triggered.

Amazingly, they turn us into them- but it's worse for us because we are not in control of the abuse. (We stay and try to control the abuse.) We are at the mercy of a capricious and vile disorder that bursts through them in the most awkward way.  It knocks the very foundation of Humanity and the Golden rule on its ___.  If you are a person who lives by rules and order- the chaos can kill you with a lethal dose of anxiety.

The bottom line is that you have to get away. Yes, you will be blamed for everything. Yes, you will be villianized. But you should stop and consider that (if you stay) this blame is already happening on a daily basis- and leaving the blame behind just gives you a better chance at serenity and a joyful life. 

Remember, people who are capable of maintaining and contributing to a loving, supportive, healthy relationship DON'T need to constantly have the concepts of respect, compassion, and consideration explained to them.  People who *are* capable of genuinely loving you in a healthy and safe way, DON'T WANT TO HURT YOU, and do not DELIBERATELY do things to hurt you. They don't play on your insecurities and they don't wage psychological warfare on you.

If you find that you are having to explain the basics of respect and courtesy to a partner - if you are finding that he/she just doesn't seem to get it, when you try to explain why their behavior or actions were disrespectful - run far and run fast.  You owe it to yourself to set your standards high- but apply them as well to other people. (Some people cannot be fixed.) No more chances for them.



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turtlesoup
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2010, 06:42:32 PM »

2010- Sometimes I feel like you must have lived my life sat by my side. I lost count of the times I explained basic respects to her, it seemed the more I explained the worse she would get. "You can't say I am to blame for someones death!", "you can't call my mother those names", "you shouldn't throw hammers at people"... .Im not even joking, though I wish I were!

Like I've said before, the only part that really leaves me gobsmacked is that I took on this parental role of some out of control child who just does and says whatever she wants. But you know the irony, and someone asked the question earlier "do they know they are doing wrong", she forbides me from talking to mutual friends about what I went thru, cos she does know she has done wrong, why else would she request this (not that I listen, im not under her control anymore). They know socially its wrong, but for all these incidents, I am to blame.

I do miss the intimacy but my stage now is just disappointment in myself, I feel so foolish, its isolating because who can you tell this story to? I look feeble and I really don't enjoy feeling like a idiot. Its 3 months now. 3 months since i last saw her hurtling towards me in a tantrum and I sped away never to return. Lovely last image!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Thats 2010, your contributions to this board have really been significant to my understanding of BPD.
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2010, 09:01:36 PM »

Great post 2010.

Sometimes it was as though two people existed in his head. A loving, kind man and then suddenly nasty and judgemental comments about former wives or g/f's or women. I would explain to him that women are regular folks with needs, etc.

At first we could talk, then it was silence, then it was anger. Happened rather quickly and left me in confusion when he would make such nasty comments.

Now I realize I needed to exit the first time the Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  appeared. Sadly, those flags didn't wave until after the second year. He was very careful.

You are right on, if someone is out of line, who are we to be their morality cop? As an adult, you would think they would have figured some things out and if not, we are in a partner relationship, not therapy.

Best to walk or run away when someone is so conflicted.

C
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turtlesoup
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« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2010, 03:29:46 AM »

Great post 2010.

Sometimes it was as though two people existed in his head. A loving, kind man and then suddenly nasty and judgemental comments about former wives or g/f's or women. I would explain to him that women are regular folks with needs, etc.

At first we could talk, then it was silence, then it was anger. Happened rather quickly and left me in confusion when he would make such nasty comments.

Now I realize I needed to exit the first time the Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  appeared. Sadly, those flags didn't wave until after the second year. He was very careful.

You are right on, if someone is out of line, who are we to be their morality cop? As an adult, you would think they would have figured some things out and if not, we are in a partner relationship, not therapy.

Best to walk or run away when someone is so conflicted.

C

Mine had a younger sister, who at first I thought was militant and strangely brattish because she would say to my exBPD "just grow up" or "just sort yourself out" when I would come by the house and I'd be wondering, well isn't this a strange dynamic for a younger sister. The sister would look at me like I'd gone off but eventually was a useful ally and was the one who convinced me (not deliberately but she let me understand what exBPD was like) to leave.

exBPD had been hiding how she would behave and when I turned up act like nothing had happened. Be calling her sister a brat and I was in agrement at first because it just seemed like the sister was always having a go. Little did I know I would be walking in after the exBPD had lobbed a hammer or thrown a drink in the sisters face and then act all smiles like nothing had happened. No wonder the sisters face was like thunder.

Later on, I got similar treatment. Massive rows and then someone would turn up and it would be like nothing had happened, sweet as pie and I'm thinking... .now you're asking me what I want with chips when 10 minutes ago you told me to drop dead?

Red Flags everywhere.
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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2010, 10:14:51 AM »

TS,

I read about Stockholm Syndrome and Truama Bonding... sometimes when a perceived or real threat is there, either physical or psychological, victims will bond to their abuser in the hope that some shred of their kindness will return. The fear and anxiety the victim develops (due to truama)is temporarily diminished when some kind act is demonstrated or granted by the abuser.

I am reminded of this as I read your post.

C
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