Truth in her lies ?

[MTTYBNAMAT]

Hello , I've been dealing with my exuBPD g/f leaving and her wiping me out of her life ,but in my last conversations with her after the break up she told me she was never unfaithful to me while we were together but I question the timing of her hooking up with her new boyfriend. I know it is a small detail but is it possible that a uBPD person could breakup with someone and then be alone for 4 weeks and then find her new boyfriend ? It seems to me that someone with abandonment issues would want to have someone on the back burner before she breaks off her primary attachment. At least that is HER story

[Howzah]

For the most part they always cheat

It's about compulsions they cannot control. You are dealing with someone who is not mentally or emotionally stable. Things like love, respect, empathy, loyalty, ect. DO NOT exist in the equation.

BPD is a severe mental illness. Very chaotic at it's core and highly unpredictable. You really just don't know when the shoe is gonna drop. It can happen at any time for any reason. You could have completely useless disagreement with your BPDSO, but they will view it as a change in your relationship, devalue you, and betray you. Usually it's completely fabricated within their minds, but their fear of abandonment triggers make it absolute reality in their eyes.

There is no way you can compete with these delusions

[paul16]

I heard from my exgf almost three years after we split up. She said that i was the last person that she had been romantically involved with. That is so far from any possibly of reality it is sad. She said it because she thought that it what I wanted to hear.

I would have wanted to hear her tell the truth much more. It would indicate the possibility of some healing.

[turtlesoup]

As I've stated before I was privy to her emails while she was with me, she was telling an ex they were the only one for her and that there was no one else after having slept with at least 3 other plus me in a rel. for two years that I know about. They justify it and feel no remorse in lying.

[T2H]

It's possible.  But unlikely.

[NHBeachBum]

My exBPDgf lied so much to so many the running joke was "how can you tell when she lies?"... ."when her lips move"! .

I found that she got really creepy & deceptive in her lies. She would say things like "my friend is soo going to break her bf's heart & he has no idea it's coming"... .I realized later she was actually talking about herself. She once said that another one of her friends "is the type of girl who could have sex with some guy then 2 hours later have sex with her bf & have no guilt"... .unfortunately I again found out she was referring to herself. I don't even know if she did it intentionally or not. She lied and told me that one of her co-workers dating a bar tender at her work but I later found out they never dated but my exBPDgf dated him.

When all is said and done, it really doesn't matter much does it? Many lies, abuse, cheating, raging... .at some point the truth of the lies really becomes irrelevant. Leaving them & being in NC & letting go is what's really important. Sadly you'll probably never know the real truth... .

-NHBB

[T2H]

Many times bad things they do will be projected onto others, as NHBB has illustrated.

[2010]

Having sex with two people hours apart is a perfect example of Borderline Personality Disorder in contrast to Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The sex has meaning only for what it represents- the BPD’s sacrifice of self in order to exist as the perfect mirroring of the partner. They are like prostitutes, but instead of sex for money- it's sex for attachment.

Remember now, this is an attachment disorder. They will do whatever it takes *to attach* to someone- and they will do it without guilt as NH Beach Bum said.  They are seductive and charming for a reason. To serve the purpose of the attachment disorder.

The BPD has a slight spot of narcissism, and purposefully chooses partners s/he perceives as weak targets; that is, targets that are kind hearted, compassionate, vulnerable to his/her charms. They aren't going to have sex with someone who is going to shake them off and say, no, that's OK. They read their targets well and look for the Achilles Heel.  Since most of the Waifs appear so needy, the psychology is often reversed- so that the target actually feels a softness toward them - ahhhhh, feels like the start of love... .soon the Rodeo of hellfire will begin.

The Borderline will use other people and not care if something they do is hurtful. They think that by lying or by passively aggressively avoiding you, they can somehow legitimize discourteous, disrespectful, careless, and self-centered behavior. This isn't about you anymore- it's all about them.

The worst of these types will be gracious and courteous and considerate TO YOUR FACE, leading you on to trust and believe in them while behind your back they lie, cheat and scapegoat you to others. While a normal person will be embarrassed when found out lying, not so the Borderline.  Any bad feelings a partner may experience as a result of this foul behavior are treated as an excessive burden, which they wont deal with. They will refuse to take your calls and avoid you at all cost. Should you manage to catch up with them- they will act as though nothing is wrong and you are the problem. It is choreography.

When you separate yourself from the mix and look back at it- you will notice the previous partners and subsequent partners all got and will get the same treatment. It is a dis(order) that is a misnomer. It is actually an orderly thing, a pattern.  Put the individual interactions together and see the result. No one wins. This is a key piece of evidence that cannot be denied.  It also singles out the end of hope.

It is a persistent trait.

It doesn’t matter what you did- it wasn’t going to work out. You exist in the bad object column now- and you will be objectified there.  It will not be any different for the next person who gets seduced next into the web. The new person is not going to get anything other than what you got.

Hopefully, this is as much a revelation to you as it was to me. Once I saw the number of people that were used- it was obvious to me that there was no hope for anything other than getting away. It's important to note that when you do, Borderlines are the first ones to accuse you of being "judgmental" when you start asserting healthy boundaries and confronting them on their bad behavior... .

[turtlesoup]

"It's important to note that when you do, Borderlines are the first ones to accuse you of being "judgmental" when you start asserting healthy boundaries and confronting them on their bad behavior... ."

Very, breaking is away is so hard. After all the bad behaviour you think you are justified and maybe even she will see you are justified in leaving. My exBPD was a family law barrister for chrissake! She dealt all the time with women and men who were mentally and physically abused but when she was cruel in these ways to me (and emotionally) apparently my leaving her on those grounds was unacceptable and I was judgemental and "nothing she said was right".

I guess its just really frustrating when you read a post like that 2010, i can see the problem, her family can, her work can, but she can't. Its so obvious a pattern and she can't see it.

[T2H]

Denial is strong in these ones... .

(fwiw, the likely reason is that it's just too horrible to confront that they might be doing something like that.  There's a lot of pain there - and they need to push it onto others to function in life.)

[innerspirit]

My X moved directly on to someone waiting in the wings, I knew who she was.  (I've posted about it before that) I had scheduled a one-last-try marriage counseling session.  When X refused to look at his issues, I had to tell him in the appt. that it was over.  He sobbed on the couch for a few minutes, dried his eyes, and in his next breath, asked the marriage counselor when it was legal for him to start dating.  No exaggeration. 

Remember now, this is an attachment disorder. They will do whatever it takes *to attach* to someone- and they will do it without guilt as NH Beach Bum said.  They are seductive and charming for a reason. To serve the purpose of the attachment disorder.

But it's still possible that he didn't Cheat with a Capital C, that he never crossed the physical line before that moment.  It would not be unlike him to think that legalistic way.  Whatever.  Sadly, it didn't matter that much to me by that point.  I guess because I was so burned out by then -- he had cheated on me in so many other ways that didn't even involve a 3rd party. 

The weirdest thing was that while we were still together, he and (the woman who was to become) new GF went out and bought clothes for me.  No special occasion, just her chance to prove her expertise in style and "their" apparent support for the marriage.  Gag me.

[NHBeachBum]

Hopefully, this is as much a revelation to you as it was to me. Once I saw the number of people that were used- it was obvious to me that there was no hope for anything other than getting away. It's important to note that when you do, Borderlines are the first ones to accuse you of being "judgmental" when you start asserting healthy boundaries and confronting them on their bad behavior... .

Every now and then someone write something so profound and crystal clear that I have to save it and print it. 2010 you basically just summed up my entire relationship with my exBPDgf. WOW! There really are no words I could use to state it any clearer or better. Thank you! That was amazing.

I can only add that I too got accused of judging my exBPDgf after she was abusive & I started to speak up about her inappropriateness and her alcoholism. In the end, she was so good at projecting, I ended up apologizing to HER! How messed up is that? She is extremely manipulative, deceitful & deceptive but most that know her for a while have quickly figured her out. They've witnessed the pattern - not just a single event - as you wrote. I re-read an old letter at the end of the breakup and here are some quotes:

"I can't listen to how bad a person I am anymore. If that is how you feel... .fine.  You are entitled to your opinion. "

"I NEVER did anything to intentionally hurt you.  I did feel that way about us.  But, unfortunately, I don't see us ever getting along.  I will not live with the fighting and degradation. I want to be alone.  For my mental and physical health, it is imperative right now.  You have said some pretty mean things about me, my character... .things I do not believe that I am.  I am not selfish, self-centered, immature.  If the worst thing you have ever done was met me and get involved that seems like the final point."

"Finally, I want the best for you.  Sounds cliche, but it is true.  I am reading a book called "The Road Less Traveled" right now.  I suggest you buy it and read it as well. I regret, deeply, if I caused you unnecessary pain."

Looking back I can see her passive-aggressive nature... ."sorry if I hurt you but I won't live with degradation & fighting"? This from someone who got piss drunk and physically tried to attack ME! Expert projection to the point where I felt sorry for her like I hurt her. She states how "it is imperative for her to be alone", but behind my back she had already put up a profile on match.com looking for the next soul mate. She "regrets deeply if she caused me pain"... .and then a month later lies to the police to have me arrested for trying to expose her to the next soul mate from match.com.

What I finally realized is that the content of the lies aren't important. The real issue is being aware of what she was doing & preventing myself from getting further damaged and protecting myself from her distortion campaign.

-NHBB

[JoannaK]

Though it's tempting to paint all people with BPD (or assumed to have BPD) with the same broad stroke, it's not always accurate... .nor fair. 

Many with BPD don't lie... .  and many people without BPD do lie.  Many who are staying with people with BPD do not have partners who cheat; in fact, many mention that that would be their boundary:  If the partner cheated, they would be gone. 

Four weeks without a partner isn't a long time.  It's possible that she did manage four weeks without a partner.  Four weeks does not give anyone enough time to clear their head and recover their sense of self before moving on to another relationship.

MTTY, if the conversations with your ex are causing you pain, perhaps it is time to stop responding to her?

[TonyC]

like jo said... they arent all the same... .and arent all BPD... .somettimes the realtionship runs its course... .having a new guy doesnt mean she was cheating... .maybe he cam alllong at the right time... who knows...

and again... distance for you might be in order... .the less you know the less you question...

she can move on... .

and so can you when your ready... cause dwelling on her will hold you back...

[16floorsup]

I re-read an old letter at the end of the breakup and here are some quotes:

"I can't listen to how bad a person I am anymore. If that is how you feel... .fine.  You are entitled to your opinion. "

"I NEVER did anything to intentionally hurt you.  I did feel that way about us.  But, unfortunately, I don't see us ever getting along.  I will not live with the fighting and degradation. I want to be alone.  For my mental and physical health, it is imperative right now.  You have said some pretty mean things about me, my character... .things I do not believe that I am.  I am not selfish, self-centered, immature.  If the worst thing you have ever done was met me and get involved that seems like the final point."

"Finally, I want the best for you.  Sounds cliche, but it is true.  I am reading a book called "The Road Less Traveled" right now.  I suggest you buy it and read it as well. I regret, deeply, if I caused you unnecessary pain."

NHBB, is there anyway your ex is my ex?  That is amazing to read the exact, word for word, sentences given to me by me exBPgf, only mine was done over the phone.  It was constantly about how she couldn't deal with my putting her down any longer.  That she is a good person, and if I can't see that, then it is my problem.  All along, of course, I never said or felt that way.  One time, though, I had a few voice-mails with this sort of talk saved, and after a blow up argument where I tried to explain how I couldn't understand why she thinks I would say those things to her, and she conveniently forgot, I sent her the voice-mails.  It was one of my better moments, because I haven't heard from her since.  Funny, how when the truth hits a BPD in the face, they run like the dickens.  Anyway, I was glad to see that I wasn't the only one with expressions like that being thrown back in my face.  Gave me some verification!  Thanks.

[MTTYBNAMAT]

I guess finding out if she cheated during our 10 year relationship is not the main issue, it is finding out how she is presenting or maintaining her image to me. " He is only a friend that I don't even see that often , he's just my smoking ,drinking listen to music friend " I believe she is down playing her " best thing to ever happen to me " , her words, relationship is because she needs to control her image to everyone including herself.

Knowledge about her and myself is the armor I need to go forward with my life and NC is the weapon to slay the dragon, but I feel the fight is only in the beginning stages and I need to stay strong

[JoannaK]

but I feel the fight is only in the beginning stages and I need to stay strong

Why do you feel that the right is only in the beginning?  Do you mean the fight within yourself?

[NHBeachBum]

I re-read an old letter at the end of the breakup and here are some quotes:

"I can't listen to how bad a person I am anymore. If that is how you feel... .fine.  You are entitled to your opinion. "

"I NEVER did anything to intentionally hurt you.  I did feel that way about us.  But, unfortunately, I don't see us ever getting along.  I will not live with the fighting and degradation. I want to be alone.  For my mental and physical health, it is imperative right now.  You have said some pretty mean things about me, my character... .things I do not believe that I am.  I am not selfish, self-centered, immature.  If the worst thing you have ever done was met me and get involved that seems like the final point."

"Finally, I want the best for you.  Sounds cliche, but it is true.  I am reading a book called "The Road Less Traveled" right now.  I suggest you buy it and read it as well. I regret, deeply, if I caused you unnecessary pain."

NHBB, is there anyway your ex is my ex?  That is amazing to read the exact, word for word, sentences given to me by me exBPgf, only mine was done over the phone.  It was constantly about how she couldn't deal with my putting her down any longer.  That she is a good person, and if I can't see that, then it is my problem.  All along, of course, I never said or felt that way.  One time, though, I had a few voice-mails with this sort of talk saved, and after a blow up argument where I tried to explain how I couldn't understand why she thinks I would say those things to her, and she conveniently forgot, I sent her the voice-mails.  It was one of my better moments, because I haven't heard from her since.  Funny, how when the truth hits a BPD in the face, they run like the dickens.  Anyway, I was glad to see that I wasn't the only one with expressions like that being thrown back in my face.  Gave me some verification!  Thanks.

I copied and pasted those exact quotes from one of her emails. While people with BPD are all unique individuals, some of the characteristics and personality traits are strikingly similar. And if my ex is YOU ex... .can you tell her to quit stalking me? WTH? Isn't it time she showed YOU a little lovin' and attention? .

I guess finding out if she cheated during our 10 year relationship is not the main issue, it is finding out how she is presenting or maintaining her image to me. " He is only a friend that I don't even see that often , he's just my smoking ,drinking listen to music friend " I believe she is down playing her " best thing to ever happen to me " , her words, relationship is because she needs to control her image to everyone including herself.

Knowledge about her and myself is the armor I need to go forward with my life and NC is the weapon to slay the dragon, but I feel the fight is only in the beginning stages and I need to stay strong

MTTYBNAMAT,

I ultimately found out that while my exBPDgf was telling me how we were soul mates & she was trying to talk me into moving into her place, at her work she was telling a very different story... .we were just kind of hanging out together. WTH? For me, it didn't really change anything. I think it only added more salt to the wound. But it was yet one more thing that made me realize that she was not the woman for me and it was simply one more item that I added on my list that I used to remind myself all the bad, inappropriate stuff she did to me.

I think NC is the answer but staying strong doesn't necessarily mean getting into the details of all the lies and the truth of her bad behavior. For me, it just prolonged my process of letting go as I was still focused on her. Maybe a better way to be strong is to just keep your perspective at a high level (i.e. "she has a severe issue that prevents us from being a happy successful couple" and then transition into the perspective of "now that I'm single, I have a great opportunity to eventually meet someone much healthier than the last person". If you were buying a car & you saw a car up on blocks, no tires, no engine, a total wreck, you would think this is not the care for me. I want a new one that is reliable. Would you spend time asking for the carfax, asking questions about how many accidents it was in, how many owners, etc? Probably not. That said, I too would like a clear picture for some closure of what REALLY happened. I think it's just a natural way for closure to get some truth and clarity. Problem I find it that's it a slippery slope and it's very easy to fall back into focusing on dwelling in the past vs focusing on the future.

Best luck on your journey! Stay strong!

-NHBB

[David Dare]

Another great thread that I can relate to.  To the original post, I agree with what others have said, that the true answer will not make a difference.  I can understand the desire to want to know the truth, to get the facts straight and gather ammunition for the blame game, but in the end it just strengthens the hold they have on our conscious.

I found that she got really creepy & deceptive in her lies. She would say things like "my friend is soo going to break her bf's heart & he has no idea it's coming"... .I realized later she was actually talking about herself. She once said that another one of her friends "is the type of girl who could have sex with some guy then 2 hours later have sex with her bf & have no guilt"... .unfortunately I again found out she was referring to herself. I don't even know if she did it intentionally or not. She lied and told me that one of her co-workers dating a bar tender at her work but I later found out they never dated but my exBPDgf dated him.

I love this part, because it was an AHA moment I had after the split.  Instead of telling me how she felt, she would use someone else as the mouthpiece.  "So and so said letting you move in was a bad idea."  "I told so and so how great you are."  "So and so thinks your an angel." And I would just think, "Wow great" and then eventually explain that other people's opinions really don't matter too much to me.  How silly of me to not see the truth that these were actually her feelings/opinions being disdirected and projected onto others.

[innerspirit]

Though it's tempting to paint all people with BPD (or assumed to have BPD) with the same broad stroke, it's not always accurate... .nor fair. 

Many with BPD don't lie... .  and many people without BPD do lie. 

As with most anyone who lies I guess, there are enough times that what's said is truthful or has a grain of truth, that we can't categorically dismiss them as being in some parallel universe.  I think that's part of how we get hooked.  Add to that the times when we're painted white -- it's seductive to be told what our (sensitive, bruised) hearts want to hear.

Another part is hearing things that are totally outrageous from an otherwise rational, intelligent person -- one who would roll his eyes if he were to hear the same whacked-out words from someone else.

Another great thread that I can relate to.  To the original post, I agree with what others have said, that the true answer will not make a difference.  I can understand the desire to want to know the truth, to get the facts straight and gather ammunition for the blame game, but in the end it just strengthens the hold they have on our conscious.

I agree.  But there is a distinction -- for some peace of mind, I think there has to be -- between getting the facts straight and gathering ammo for the blame game.  And yes, after a point, it soon becomes part of the cumulative ride on the mental hamster wheel.  It just strengthens the hold -- and for me, the stress has run much deeper than the conscious level.  It was many years of walking in a world that didn't make sense, trying to make sense of it, or make sense of that fact that it didn't make sense -- if that makes any sense.  I'll back off of that -- it just gets the wheel going.

[David Dare]

I understand what you're saying.  I have the same issue, trying to make sense of a lot of weird experiences.  It's like there's too much to process, which makes it more confusing!

What I found happening to me, though, as I wondered what were lies and what weren't, is that suddenly the whole thing looks like a lie, and then I'm trying to figure other things out, were they lies, were they not lies.  And then, suddenly, the whole relationship seems like a 100% lie and I'm left hurt because the part of me that wants to hold onto some sane positive memories of the relationship has to face the possibility that the entire thing was a sham.  All the hugs, giggles, kisses, what I normally perceive as tender love... .all fake.  That hurts, man. 

[innerspirit]

I think it's a hall of mirrors, personally.  Even to say "the whole thing is a sham" is in itself a lie.  I'm certain that there were things that X sincerely and desperately WANTED to be true.  And things that just didn't fit that picture were conveniently erased --- for those "unpleasantries", he imposed an amnesia on me, at least an outward version. 

What was inside me didn't matter much, except for the effect it would have on him.  If I could cover up well enough, then I was complicit in the scheme -- which means surrogate Mommy made it better.

I don't know if it helps me to consider that he loved me the best he can.  Maybe the foundation wasn't strong enough to support a lot of truth, so there's a weird and variable mix of real and unreal heaped on top of it.  Hmm -- that feels like a breakthru on this end.

[David Dare]

Right.  The bottom line I stick with is that I got caught in a relationship with someone who probably tried to make it work, but just couldn't.  The longer I am away from her, the more I see that, BPD or not, we probably weren't as compatible as I thought.  But, dang, the good times sure felt good!

[ShredHead82]

Yeah it is total insanity(no pun intended). 10 months out and I was positive... .actually happy. Then it began. She called with veiled suicide threats. Just talking to her brought me back to that old horrible place. So I told her I can't have you in my life. What followed was just awe-inspiring craziness to a level I've never experienced before. Several emails about what a terrible person I am- followed by 'just get over me already'(we never actually went out- she would tell me she's in love with me but can't break up with whatever bf she was with- then alternate back & forth for a few months crying how hard her life was to have to make 'this choice' followed by her attacking anyone on Craigslist who said anything remotely similar to our situation(I DID look- she posted there last time) followed by me being blocked from bother her AND her BF's FB (neither one was my friend anyway-I deleted her a year ago- I thought it was odd that all their posts were deleted from common friends pages but she kept telling me how she didn't love him so I checked her FB and the last post from THAT day was 'I have the best BF in the world' which I informed her I saw). Followed by a series of posts on CL that said we have to 'kill this' and 'get over each other'(again I was NC for 10 months, she has a bf, I've been dating for 10 months which I've told her, and we NEVER WENT OUT- ). No matter how many times I answered her with 'we have NOT been talking for 10 months- I am dating' she would respond to an email I sent her LAST YEAR! Over the last few weeks a car has been creeping up my block slowly and when the headlights hit me(if I'm out smoking or getting something from my car) the car screeches to a stop makes a partial u-turn- then abandons the u-turn and speeds past me with the drivers head down. This has happened 3 times. I can't wait to get back to where I was a month and a half ago. The good thing out of all of this was- I always (sadly) assumed we would end up together- this last interaction finally tipped the Coke machine over- I now am truly uninterested in having her in my life in any capacity.