Another question?

[left4good]

Been reading a lot on here lately.  Relating to the threads where the ex has come back around and seemingly figured everything out.  Wanting reconciliation or whatever.  I'm in a similar situation.  Not

completely,  but right there.

One thing I've seen a lot of on here is that in the relationship and after it's ended and returned the ex places blame on the non. 

I haven't had that.  She hasn't blamed me for anything.  Never did.  There were things in the relationship that she argued with me about.  But I can't recall a time where she actually made me to be the one accountable for her crap.  Not even during the worst of times after the split.  In the middle of one the worst trash talking bad mouthing sessions I can remember,  she point blank said this isn't your fault.  "It wasn't you,  it wasn't something you did,  you didn't make me do all of this." 

Just curious about it.  Is this common?  Seemed she recognized something awhile back... .  Wonder why she didn't blame? 

[thisblonde]

Hey Left-  Long time no "Hello" dear friend, so "Hello"!

Are you saying that yours never accused you of anything:  looking at the opposite sex for example,  anything?

[left4good]

Well i gotta say i was focused on the bigger ticket items.  But even these little things like did you just look at her or why were you late.  Not really.  Maybe the girl thing once.  She became paranoid after we split.  thought I was getting into her myspace account somehow,  but she just asked if I was.  Didn't go out of her way to make a big deal out of it.  She and I both found out later on it was new dude.  Phone, myspace, facebook, purse, etc.  I guess with the blame I'm associating it with fault.

She never put the fault of what happened on me.  Not from the beginning to the end. 

Now lately she speaks openly of it being her fault.  That there wasn't anything I could have done differently.  But i think a lot of that is trying to prove that she's changing for the better and getting therapy blah blah blah.  I don't put a lot of stock in her words right now. 

And Hello to you Blond! 

Left

[thisblonde]

I guess you were one of the lucky ones.   Mine would get set off on something so small and make it so big that it was unrecognizeable at times.   However, within a day or two he would be back to seemingly normal- seemed to be able to give a geniune apology, knew what he did wrong, acknowledged it, even had a plan for making sure it didn't happen again, even on the small things.

Later, after the big break, he actually sought help.  I heard everything one would want/hope/wish to hear.  A very well thoughtout analogy of what his problem was, why it was all his fault, how his disorder has him seeing things wrong, how he's read the book "it's not you, it's me"... .how common it was for people in his situation to blame others for their problems, turn on the ones they love, and how he could see all the times he had done that.  AND how he was working on that with the Dr- had a plan for self restraint, self control, behavior modification training for when he gets those "feelings" how to remove himself from the feelings until he could get back in touch with the "facts" and not act on feelings, etc.   You'd a thought he was healed or way on his way to it if you had been there to witness such revelations, such seemingly honest moments of clarity and wisdom, self revelation and an acceptance of his actions.  That could certainly active some Hope, false hope, but at the time I thought he was really onto something.

Didn't last... .   They just get better educated through the Dr. on what is appropriate to say and do for manipulation purposes, not for real change.  He could mimic the Dr. real well, picked up on all the buzz words and threw them out like he really was embracing it.  Just another false identity thing.  By the 3-4th month of treatment he had decided that the Dr was a quack, couldn't be trusted, and was against him.   Started over again with another, and although by this time I was ACTUALLY exercising strict N/C, his Dad later told me that he had found a way to fool that Dr., told him what he wanted to hear, made up crap, and had that one snowed, until the Dad intervened, and found out what a snow job he did.  That ended that attempt.

Real change takes so much time, and who wants to endure 10+ years of torture just to get a few "moments of clarity" ever so often.   

I think that loud sucking noise is her trying to suck you back in, with all the right words of course.  Just maintain limited contact, with only discussions about the necessities and you'll do fine! 

Good to hear from you!

[left4good]

wonderful to hear from you too! 

I fully believe you're right about that sucking noise.  I have started silently making mental notes about how she reacts to certain things I say or what she says to me about herself.  One thing i've noticed is that she sounds very well rehearsed.  Lots of rhetoric  (it seems).  I do think she keeps a fairly safe distance from me because she knows that i'm able to see a lot of what she says and does as BS. 

I do believe the emotional distance is taking it's toll on her.  She's turned her attention to the crying,  how could i have done this to our family,  i've lost you,  my son.  Blabady blabady blah.  Yeah I think she really hurts.  But i'm not convinced that she's hurting because she is ill.  I think her hurting will bring back some of my emotional load carrying for her (in her mind) and i'm here to say this,  not gonna do it.  I've got my own demons to slay. 

It remains to be seen.  I've told her all of the crap i'm sure she didn't wanna hear.  Your chances are slim.  You'll find a reason to quit going to therapy.  You'll fight with me again.  you'll be upset that I see other people.  You'll hate your situation.  You'll find yourself a new person to be in love with. 

She acknowledges all of those things.  But I doubt she fixes em. 

I'm interested to see what happens in the near future.  She is supposedly getting a place with her sister.  year lease.  That will tie her down to an obligation.  She'll have her new baby in Sept.  another obligation.  Her sister won't deal with her stuff,  so i'm curious to see if she finds a way to run. 

Left

[thisblonde]

Sounds like she might be priming you as her back up plan... .?   The thing is, they take what you tell them, that you intended for them as "need to change/room for improvement" stuff, boundaries even, and they figure out what in your words is most important to you, so they can fine tune their message to you.  Make no mistake about it, it's well thought out, rehearsed and customized.  They can smell your reaction, no matter how you try to contain it.  They have made a life out of reading people, figuring out what works and doesn't and making it (themselves) appear more like you want them to be.  It starts from day one in the selling phase, and from then on it's manipulating all that so they can keep you.  And once they realize that you've seen the worst of them and might not like the real them, they start working on a back up plan, just in case you leave.  Their whole life is geared around keeping someone in place to comfort them, so they don't have to deal with the real person on the inside. 

So I'm not surprised she is clinging again, and saying all the right things.  She's got alot going on, and past history tells her that she never has real security in anything (because they can't maintain it- not a reflection on the people they choose) so she's out looking for another soft landing, for when the inevitable happens, and it will. 

I take comfort in knowing you are smart enough to realize all this, and see it for what it is: another plan that benefits them, and only them.  I just hope you see that before you get hurt!  If not, I'm here with some band-aids! 

[left4good]

If I get hurt i don't want any band aids!  I need a swift kick in the ass! 

I haven't really given her anything emotionally to go by.  No well if you do this you get this or yeah i want this this and this.  I've told her its a long road.  It's great to make progress.  glad that she's working on her.  It's nice to talk without arguing. 

But... .I think i'm starting to see some triangulation (read definition).  Her current ex is supposedly contacting her all of the time and she's not responding.  (I think he is possible pwBPD,  if not, he's just a bad dude)  He's recruited her mom to try and contact also.  She's seemed to fall back into telling more about the situation to see my reaction.  Slightly.  Nothing blatant as of yet.  And she's showing some signs of things she did the whole time since we split.  She always wanted to see me and the days leading up

to scheduled meetings,  she'd get emotional,  come up with some sort of drama,  and back out.  Concoct a story and run.  Later for me to find out the lie. 

Well I had to keep my son tonight because she's got some plans with family that he can't attend.  All fine and good.  she wanted to see him for a bit this afternoon.  I suggested park or quick bite or drop him off with her for awhile before they go.  She said lets take him to eat.  that'll be easy and he can play.  Well... .last night she got really emotional.  "Overwhelmed"!  Today she's not talking and asking questions like normal today and tried to get out of it i believe. 

Little stuff like this allows me the distance I need for ME.  the big kicker will be tomorrow night when she knows I'll be out with friends.  She probably won't say anything mean but I bet my phone lights up about the time I hit the bar!   

[thisblonde]

Oh you'll get a swift kick to the rear, and hard!   I was just trying to be nice with the "bandaids" comment.  So not me, and you saw right through that one!

Anyway, sounds like your head's on straight and you are paying attention to all the appropriate signals that she still playing the BPD game.  Good on ya, but don't get so confident that you can handle anything she dishes out and put your guard down.  Enjoy your evening out!

[left4good]

My confidence was very high going into this deal.  As it's progressed I had to stagger that back a bit.  I believe being over confident can put blinders on a person.  Hinder the ability to see the whole picture for what it is.  I wanted to be able to feel what was happening... .feelers. 

Yeah I can't wait.  May have a buddy coming in from out of state!  She's wanting to grab a beer later on this week.  Plenty of things to keep me out of ex's web!

thanks

Left 

[2010]

This could be what Vaknin calls the "Masochistic Avoidant Solution"

She directs some of this fury inwards, punishing herself for her "failure". This masochistic behavior has the added "benefit" of forcing the partner's closest to assume the roles of dismayed spectators or of persecutors and thus, either way, to pay her the attention that she craves.

Self-administered punishment often manifests as self-handicapping masochism – a cop-out. By undermining her work, her relationships, and her efforts, the increasingly fragile BPD avoids additional criticism and censure (negativity). Self-inflicted failure is the BPD's doing and thus proves that she is the master of her own fate.

Masochistic abusers keep finding themselves in self-defeating circumstances which render success impossible – and "an objective assessment of their performance improbable" (Millon, 2000). They act carelessly, withdraw in mid-effort, are constantly fatigued, bored, or disaffected and thus passive-aggressively sabotage their lives. Their suffering is defiant and by "deciding to abort" they reassert their omnipotence.

Her pronounced and public misery and self-pity are compensatory and "reinforce her self-esteem against overwhelming convictions of worthlessness" (Millon, 2000). Her tribulations and anguish render her, in his eyes, unique, saintly, virtuous, righteous, resilient, and significant. They are, in other words, self-generated attention.

From the article called "the Relief of Being Abandoned."

[left4good]

At this point,  she seems ok adjusted.  Not well but adjusted. 

Her overwhelmed feeling,  crying,  etc.  could very well be an outward attempt at getting my sympathy and thus taking on the caregiver roll. 

however,  she will tell me just as quickly when she feels overwhelmed,  Too happy,  too sad,  confused with something,  hurt,  angry... .we've been thru those all this far,  that she is doing her best to step back and feel what she's feeling,  deal with it in a productive manner and then leave it.  She's not been depressed or outwardly emotional towards me and she seems to be handling the life obligations well at this point.  Now i don't see her at work,  at home,  or anywhere else.  I only get text conversations.  I don't know what she's telling other people or how she's acting. 

Could be a number of things... .the one thing it's not,  MY PROBLEM!