Did anyone fight fire with fire?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I have a question?  Did anyone else ever fight fire with fire.  Here is why I ask.  I know the first few times my exBPDgf said mean things to me after the honeymoon phase was wearing off, I would shut down and just be hurt.  However, it did not take too long for me to start spewing venom right back at her because I thought, hey if she can dish it out, she can take it.  This is before I realized she had BPD, I just thought that she was just mean (well she was being mean, but at least now I know there is a reason behind the madness).  I was raised with the philosophy, if you can dish it out, you should be able to take it.  Apparently, BPD's don't live by these same rules.  She is the only person in my life who was close to me that ever made cracks about my appearance.  That really did not settle with me too well.  I remember one time she made a comment about my stretch marks being disgusting.  Now mind you, I am 32 and she is 45, I am much thinner than her.  I thought about what she had said, processed it and came back with, "well I have stretch marks because I have lost weight, you don't have stretch marks because... .you have not". Was it wrong of me to say... yes... .but it felt soo good! She always just makes these little digs about my appearance and I would come right back.  That is just how I am, I did not want her to think for a second she was going to rip my self esteem to pieces (well she did anyway).  I also think I did it because I was hoping that if I came right back at her, she would eventually stop because she was not getting the reaction she hoped for... .she did not and we both said a lot of horrible things to each other.

There was also a time when I was living with her and realized she was on match.com... .so I put my profile up on match.com... .she found out, and flipped out.  I told her that if she did not like it and wanted me to take my profile down, she had to take hers down.  She did

Another time, I noticed she had her screen locked on her cell phone and she could only open it with a code.  I then put the same security setting on my phone.  She noticed it, flipped out... .and I said, well if you don't want me to have it, you need to take it off your phone.  She took it off. 

When we realized she may have BPD, I took a different approach.  I realized she was saying mean things to me because of her own insecurities.  I tried to be more understanding and just let her rage without too much confrontation.  It seemed that if I did not engage her back, her behavior would get worse and she would attention seek even more.  I did truly feel guilty about things that I had said to her because I realized that she really probably took things a lot more personally than I did.  She has BPD, they feel worthless enough as it is, but she said horrible things to me and I just could not shake it.

Now she is in therapy and she says that she is trying to deal with all the emotional abuse she endured with me.  UMMMM... .I was in a relationship for 8 years prior to her... .never had this issue.  I do not think that I am an abuser, I think that I was hurt, upset and defending my self... .I mean I can not properly articulate the terrible things this woman did and said to me.  I spent a year with this woman and my hair is almost completely gray... .I am only 32!  All I know is, I never want to be the person I was with her... .ever again!

I guess I am asking did anyone ever fight back verbally or physically and do they feel guilty now they know about BPD?

[Disgruntled]

I have a question?  Did anyone else ever fight fire with fire.  Here is why I ask.  I know the first few times my exBPDgf said mean things to me after the honeymoon phase was wearing off, I would shut down and just be hurt.  However, it did not take too long for me to start spewing venom right back at her because I thought, hey if she can dish it out, she can take it.  This is before I realized she had BPD, I just thought that she was just mean (well she was being mean, but at least now I know there is a reason behind the madness).  I was raised with the philosophy, if you can dish it out, you should be able to take it.  Apparently, BPD's don't live by these same rules.  She is the only person in my life who was close to me that ever made cracks about my appearance.  That really did not settle with me too well.  I remember one time she made a comment about my stretch marks being disgusting.  Now mind you, I am 32 and she is 45, I am much thinner than her.  I thought about what she had said, processed it and came back with, "well I have stretch marks because I have lost weight, you don't have stretch marks because... .you have not". Was it wrong of me to say... yes... .but it felt soo good! She always just makes these little digs about my appearance and I would come right back.  That is just how I am, I did not want her to think for a second she was going to rip my self esteem to pieces (well she did anyway).  I also think I did it because I was hoping that if I came right back at her, she would eventually stop because she was not getting the reaction she hoped for... .she did not and we both said a lot of horrible things to each other.

There was also a time when I was living with her and realized she was on match.com... .so I put my profile up on match.com... .she found out, and flipped out.  I told her that if she did not like it and wanted me to take my profile down, she had to take hers down.  She did

Another time, I noticed she had her screen locked on her cell phone and she could only open it with a code.  I then put the same security setting on my phone.  She noticed it, flipped out... .and I said, well if you don't want me to have it, you need to take it off your phone.  She took it off. 

When we realized she may have BPD, I took a different approach.  I realized she was saying mean things to me because of her own insecurities.  I tried to be more understanding and just let her rage without too much confrontation.  It seemed that if I did not engage her back, her behavior would get worse and she would attention seek even more.  I did truly feel guilty about things that I had said to her because I realized that she really probably took things a lot more personally than I did.  She has BPD, they feel worthless enough as it is, but she said horrible things to me and I just could not shake it.

Now she is in therapy and she says that she is trying to deal with all the emotional abuse she endured with me.  UMMMM... .I was in a relationship for 8 years prior to her... .never had this issue.  I do not think that I am an abuser, I think that I was hurt, upset and defending my self... .I mean I can not properly articulate the terrible things this woman did and said to me.  I spent a year with this woman and my hair is almost completely gray... .I am only 32!  All I know is, I never want to be the person I was with her... .ever again!

I guess I am asking did anyone ever fight back verbally or physically and do they feel guilty now they know about BPD?

[seeking balance]

I guess I am asking did anyone ever fight back verbally or physically and do they feel guilty now they know about BPD?

Yes, I fought back and yes I felt guilty about it.  I literally would get frustrated with her immaturity & lack of accountability or responsibility and say things like "act like an adult" - not exactly the most loving thing to say, especially to pwBPD.

However, once we got into counceling - I knew that I could only change me and worked on me.  Not reacting, validating, etc.  My guilt over fighting back kept me in what I can only say was very abusive to me.  My stbex was spending money like crazy, going on trips to find herself, etc and I supported it.

Once I found out about her lies & cheating - I, too, was thrown the I was surviving an abusive marriage card.  She is in T and literally thinks she was abused in our marriage.

Like you, I have never been accused of this in past relationships.  I also know that I argued back - I survived crazy the best way that I could, but I would not in any way considered it "abuse" in the true sense of the word.

PWBPD will say anything - including you abused them - to avoid accepting any responsibility for their actions. 

My advice to you is take what is yours, forgive yourself and move on. 

Best, SB

[2010]

An eye for an eye leaves both people blind.

[Believe]

2010,  One thing is certain: whether your posts are short & sweet like this one or whether they're long and deeply thoughtful like many others I've read, you ALWAYS move me with your comments. My favorite to date is "Put the Ding Dong Down." You're a legacy to many of us here!

Yes yes yes on your eye for an eye comment.

[seeking balance]

Put the ding dong down still makes me literally laugh out loud - love it!

[Believe]

Put the ding dong down still makes me literally laugh out loud - love it!

Me, too! I'm laughing right now... .This is such a great place. Laughter is the best medicine.

So, back to the original theme of this thread, sure, I would sometimes fight back... .fire with fire. But all it did was burn me. But I have no real guilt or regret about it. I know in my heart that the reasons I was doing it were not malicious. It was a self defense mechanism more than anything else.

[62324]

I spent a year with this woman and my hair is almost completely gray... .I am only 32!  All I know is, I never want to be the person I was with her... .ever again!

I hear you.  I spent 7 years with my ex -- I'm in my mid-twenties.  And I'm going gray in the facial hair under my sideburns, it depresses me quite a bit.  :'(

I fought back lots of times, verbally, but I never once laid a hand on her.  I recall destroying a garbage can once because I slammed it so forcefully, which is totally out of character for me in almost any situation because I felt so freaking frustrated by my ex's ability to see any sort of reasonable logic in a situation.  Didn't matter what it was.  Waaaaay beyond any sort of normal argument that happens in a relationship, to the point where it was clear she had no clue how to act like an adult or live in reality.  I told her many times that I felt like arguing with her was like talking to a brick wall.  There were numerous times that I would start to say something somewhat critical of her or her behavior -- literally tiptoe-ing around and being as careful and tactful as possible -- but before I could get to word 5, she would latch onto word 4 and talk over me until she had completely derailed the conversation into an attack on her based on word 4.

I've heard it so many times that I'm sick of it: "That happens in all relationships, women are that way.  They'll twist your words on you."

No, not like this.  This is the dark side, this is beyond comprehension for anyone who hasn't experienced feeling like they are living in the Twilight Zone.

[OverBoard]

Yes... reading this post brought back many, many horrible memories. After the honeymoon stage and she became over critical and hypersensitive I did fight back... like you, I was NOT about to have my self esteem riped to shreds. But, came a time I sat back, let her do what she had to do... didn't matter. The lies, deceit, cheating still existed. Never able to find herself or re-invent herself. It hurt me deeply to get caught up in that empty maze of wasted energy. I too was blamed for being "abusive"... mmmm... I'm blackened now as an "abuser"... though I never laid a hand on her and my words were no more than defending myself against consistent hard core verbal attacks.

When I tried to be calm and rational, it was as though that would strike yet another match and all hell would break loose.

Anything could set her off. If I took her hand and told her I understood... I didn't... I was mean and cruel, selfish, hell... even stupid. If I fought back; fire with fire; I was an abuser, harsh, controlling, hated her.

If she fell into tears and I tried to comfort her... didn't matter, that was wrong as well.

I, too had a twelve year relationship and dated... never once have I been accused of being abusive in any fashion. This took the cake.

I also beleive outside the illness that it's a persons "character" as well that outlines alot of the behavior.

Did I regret fighting back. You bet. Every single time. It killed off parts of me inside. There were times she'd "come down" so to speak and I was able to hold her and tell her she was loved... but not often. Not often.

[swmdBPbfofuBPDgf]

so, you all feel guilty and shameful because you fought back... .terrific... I hope you are not staying up asleep late at night wondering why you hurt so much still... .Worrying about the feelings of a person that is hurting you with complete indifference and with zero, repeat zero, conscience , is in my opinion as sick if not sicker than the abusuer... .and if I hear one more "but I loved him/her" I may get upset... .for your definition and feelings of "love" are a little warped if you can't toughen up for a second and see what's been happening to you... .

And if it sounds like I am lecturing you, well, if it makes you feel better, I am sitting right next to you in class for I need continue to hold my position of extreme aggressiveness toward my highly abusive ex, for it is working, she is very scared of me right now, and  often the best defense is  a great offense

The facts... .we're getting our teeth kicked in, we learn whats happening, we try to fix it, more teeth  fall, we try to leave, more teeth, we try to reason, more teeth, and right when we prepare to leave for good, they oft beat us to the punch by leaving first, more teeth, and of course, tearing your heart is not enough, lets leave your soul smouldering in ashes as they crank up a new romance right in front of you, leaving essentially with a mouth of gums... .

Rule number 1 on the playground as a child... .if someone is picking on you and being a bully, what are you supposed to do? You let him have it in the kisser as hard as you can... now lets see how much of a bully he is if you pop him one good. Unfortunately, as adults, the pop to the kisser will get us in more trouble, so what can we do?

Here's the rub... .we up here in logic land want to talk things out, create understanding, boundaries, to be heard, to have our pain and suffering validated, and if we are just too far apart, some nice closure and maybe a good ry and a hug and a few good lucks, and then the cow will jump over the moon... .for you know what people ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! less than zero chance... If thats what they wanted, they would, but they dont, and I just dont care why anymore, because worrying about why they are doing what they are doing will take us away from our primary focus, which is to get them to stop hurting us... .

There are no style points in self defense, and why this tremendous out pouring of second guessing and guilt in my opinion is either denial or just extreme trauma from what we have gone through... .we all tried to get them to step up to our supposed reasonable and rational  points, and not only do they  not capitulate and become more present with a commitment to growth and stability, they take many of our best efforts at connecting and healing and just further magnify the problems... .

What is left to do is not spoken of nearly enough which is fight back anyway you can, you may not have known it at the  time, but you will be fighting for your mental sanity... .the exBPD is just being sadistic out of control with no bottom  behavior even close to being aknowledged... .who knows when they will stop?  i Know two people who dont, and that is us and them... .unless we shift tactics... .remember, we have enabled these rages before , thats why they contnue to do them, for at the end of the very llong day, the behavior has worked...

But again, dealing strictly with the facts... .we are being hit over the head of the head with a hammerr... .do not try new techniques to take the blows in a way where most of them dont hurt as much... .Get yourself a hammer, an even bigger one and start sticking up for your self...

Make it very clear from the beginning that you have no desire to hurt anyone, but more importantly, that you refuse to be hurt by anyone either, especially him/her, and if anything remotely abusive omes out of their mouths or through their actions, that they are going to feel every ounce of pain you have experienced x2

After the first retaliation, ask them point blank, is this what you want? (dont hold your breath for a response)... .

I am currently beginning month three of a nasty silent treatment , of which I had to mail a video from home to show and express the pain I was in... .and clearly explain that is she did not know before

how pinful it was, she does now and its her responsibility

20 minuts later all my stuff was on the porch... .except of course, all my pricey electronics and stuff... .6 weeks of silence, i go to police and and send pic to her still nothing

so i go online and write a review of her bizzsaying it smelled like she had just gotten laid in her office right before my massage... .i got an f-you text the next day, but forced the issue and got my stuff back... and now know she is scared to death of me for not just threatening her with revenge the subtle way, but complete publi exposure of what she is all about... .

The goal is to protect ourselves first... .they are not going to join us at our level, we need to spend a little time in the mud, even some sores and hopefully back them off... think about it, they have dated and lived with dozens of guys before us, do you honestly think we are the only ones who got treated this way... .I think not, but the SOs before us likely walked right out at first glimpse, or punched back, scaring our exs , forcing to seek mild mannered bait like ourselves

Never again... .fight back and fight back hard, until they stop, and  they will for they are cowards, and you all have enough info to ruin their professional life... .hang that over the head and see how tough they are... .

The ends are the only thing that matters... .bleep them if they want you stop... .crush them in evreyway they crushed us... .lets see if they ever do it again if you leave a hurtful mark... .just the  thought people have guns in their house keeps burglars out... .hang merciless and never ending revenge and retalliation 

[Benny]

Yes, I did fight back and fought fire with fire at times but that fire got thrown straight back at me in very obvious ways but in subtle ways as well and I crumbled,gave in,apologised,begged,pleaded and was contradictory and ultimately collapsed in a blubbering heap on the floor of a hotel room.

Never,ever again.

[ve01603]

I guess I am asking did anyone ever fight back verbally or physically and do they feel guilty now they know about BPD?

Yes, and no, in that order.  Looking back, mine was a big, grown up bully.  Typically bullies can dish it out but not take it. 

I tried everything.  When he was dissing me, I tried giving it back, I tried defending myself, but the VERY best is that sometimes, I would agree with him. 

When I did that, he did not know what to do!  I would say stuff like, yeah, I know I'm no good, I'm awful, why are you even with me?

He was schocked.  But at least I did try everything.

[ve01603]

[I fought back lots of times, verbally, but I never once laid a hand on her.  I recall destroying a garbage can once because I slammed it so forcefully, which is totally out of character for me in almost any situation because I felt so freaking frustrated by my ex's ability to see any sort of reasonable logic in a situation./quote]

One time in the whole six years, I through a stapler at the wall because I was soo mad.  We were supposed to go and see Rod Stewart and he got home late and made us late (he could never get anywhere on time).  I had rushed to get home from work and then sat and waited and he didn't even work that day, he was out smoking dope with losers. 

Anyway, he had had so many fits, torn up things, torn up our whole apartment one night, busted doors down, but don't you know at the end, he brought up the damn stapler which was the only thing that I did and happened three years before.

[fogbound]

I never did anything malicious to her, I couldn't, it's not me. However everyone has a break point and I was pushed to mine way too many times. It was like the rage someone would have being imprisoned for a murder they didn't commit. How many times can a person be accused of cheating when they've been totally faithful? How many times can a parent listen to their children being called awful names? How could I control myself when I was "ordered" to come up with more money when I was struggling to stay in business? How could I keep it together when I'd put my life on hold for more than a decade so I could do everything for her and take care of her every need, only to be told what a worthless piece of s**t I was?

Yes I would explode in self defense but I never laid a hand on her. So I did the only thing I knew how to do which was to verbally slam her. I hated being driven to that point but as I said, everyone has a breaking point. I'm sure the names I called her hurt and the things I screamed at her took her even lower then she already was. I take no pleasure in it but I also feel no regret. It was self defense... .period!

[Devin78]

I have been told that due to my experiences in life and military interrogation training I have the gift of silver toungue. So I CAN destroy someone with words if i really wanted. My ex would try and say the most outrageous personal attack possible. Alot of times my reaction would be to hurt her with the facts, not just make things up to say to hurt her like she did to me. The big difference is I very rarely raised my voice to say what I had to say. That came from the training. It seemed like she would wait for that exact reaction and use what I say to her, in reaction to her words, against me. Then she would dismiss her negative words towards me as being "pissed off". She honestly believed that the things she said to me when she was in a rage was ok because she was mad at the time and shouldn't have to answer for or apologize for them. It became a neverending cycle so I would just quit responding to it. Most times that would piss her off even more then she would retreat to another room and make herself even more mad by dwelling on it. By the time she came out she was just a tightly bound bundle of anger that would just scream and yell and cry. It was very disturbing. I can't wait till her new BF gets to see that. He is even more passive than I am.

[ron7127]

An eye for an eye leaves both people blind.

Perhaps. Or, possibly, just without binocular vision and with diminished depth perception.

Really, I think there are few people, Ghandi and Mother Theresa come to mind, who have not picked up some fleas and who, eventually, do not fight back.

You kick a nice dog enough times, and , eventually, it will biteyou.

[TonyC]

i ididnt fight fire with but i did sort of i guess when i ws a stayer... .

and validated... .her feelings about things...

like.she comes hime drunk at 3 am... .we would talk and i would say would it be okay of i did it...

shes said... emphatically no!

and then she had guys callin from her job( bartender )... id say would it be okay for me...

again emphatic no!

then we broke up for nine months... she lived with a guy, and yes... .she called me... when the bliss wore off,... wanted to come back and i was still hiding on my side of the fence...

her first demand... that i stop dating... .i said you live with someone...

i realised fighting fire with fire... didnt work early and it didnt work later...

you have to remember its all about the person interpeting your actions...

[beenburned]

I didn't for a very long time.  Then one day I woke up.  She would try to belittle me and put me down.  She would tell me how good looking she was and how all the guys wanted her.  Well I used to be a model when I was in my early 20's and I used to get paid very well.  When I met with my exBPDw I was going threw some stuff in my life and felt very low in my life.  I started to realize that she was putting me down all the time is because she know I was above her and that she was worried that I would leave her.  We would go out together and would make out and other woman would still try to buy me a beer.  The crazyiest stuff would happen while I was out with her...  

After a while in the most resent times I started to see myself worth more.  She was always breaking up with me and I had started to spend more time with my friends and also myself.  That’s when we started to fight more when she came back...   I could counter what she was saying as truth while she was just saying things to set me off.  I told her that I could go out and be a whore just like her.  That I could find her replacement tomorrow. 

[stateofzero]

My uxBPDgf became more aggressive and hostile right after I set my boundaries.  She was having another emotional meltdown and she tried to put words in my mouth.  I called her on it and she tried to change the subject.  I told her that I would rather let her go than continue to put up with her emotional meltdowns and now her blatant lying. I even suggested we go to counseling or therapy. At the time I did not know anything about BPD.  I realize now that I may have further triggered her fear of abandonment.  In fact, when were breaking up she mentioned she had felt like she needed to leave because of that night.  She kept reassuring me that she did love me and that it wasn't because she didn't love me.

Anyhow, although she became verbally abusive towards the end, I did retaliate a few times.  Once she grabbed my stomach fat and told me it was "sexy".  So I grabbed the fat on her arms and repeated her statement.  It was juvenile and stupid, but she had been putting me down and made a few stupid statements toward me. I wish I would have handled it better, but I got caught up in the whole stupid mess.  It was painful to see someone you love abuse you that way.  I kept making excuses for her because of her depression and issues.  Never again.

[id-crisis]

I guess I am asking did anyone ever fight back verbally or physically and do they feel guilty now they know about BPD?

Yes, in the beginning I did, much to my regret. My story pretty much ditto's yours including the dating site and phone lock, although by the time I started doing "like for like" it was in desperation to actually show him what he was doing to me. Make him understand how it felt. I may not suffer from BPD (I hope! ) but I have my own insecurities and he appeared to delight in undermining them.

I can be vicious if I feel threatened and he sure as hell found all my buttons with a quickness! In the beginning I would say nasty things back but very quickly regretted my actions and realised it leads to a downward spiral and tried to keep my cool but he would push me further and further in an effort to get the reaction he wanted ... .which, I assume, was to be as nasty and mean as he was.

The few unnecessarily nasty things I said in retaliation, I was punished for on a regular basis.  And yet, when I brought up some of the dark & wicked things he said to me regularly... . he'd blithely explain that "I didn't mean them". Never an apology, and never any forgiveness despite my heartfelt guilt-stricken apologies to him.

I have frequently wondered how differently the relationship might have developed had I been aware of BPD and not initially responded spitefully but to be honest, I truly believe it would have gone down the same path. He'd have looked for other reasons to punish or blame me for his life being so painful and miserable!

[Joshua]

Yes, and I regret it. All it did was give my ex's behavior validation, that it was actually acceptable, no matter how much I told him that it wasn't. His bad behavior never justified mine.

On another tangent, when I'd talk to my ex even in recent years (we were married in 99 and divorced by 02, separated for two of those years because of his violent behavior) he'd love to pull out the card that he'd never wanted to hit any girlfriend after me. The physical abuse was what caused the marriage to collapse, and the victim blaming he engaged in is what caused me to stop communicating altogether; "I'm not actually blaming you for me beating you up but if none of my girlfriends except you made me that angry... ."

Nah, brah, you are actually blaming me... .although, you're welcome for forcing the court order for you to get into anger management therapy... .

[mindful]

From the Rapper Big B:  Teach this triple truth to all: A generous heart, kind speech, and a life of service and compassion are the things which renew humanity. 

[mindful]

From the Rapper Big B:  Teach this triple truth to all: A generous heart, kind speech, and a life of service and compassion are the things which renew humanity. 

[id-crisis]

I'm just remembering one particular occasion where the constant stress and walking on eggshells had built up to such a point I actually lost it myself. He did one of his flouncing acts again after a friend called me which made him angry and he wouldn't stick around for an explanation. I just lost it and screamed at him "how the **** dare he not give me a chance to explain why this man was calling me. I was shaking like a leaf, crying and screaming at him all at the same time. I was just overwhelmed with the injustice of it all and lost it.

I've never had him react in such a balanced way with me. His tantrum and flouncing off episode stopped dead in his tracks and he said "c'mon, let's just forget it" and proceeded to put his arms around me and give me a cuddle.

I've seriously never lost it like that in my life, I was hysterical. Strange how he responded so well to that level of intensity, and he was very loving and close and "regulated" for a long while (for him) following that incident. I suppose he needed that level of intensity to actually feel something real?

[sparky]

Notice my screen name?  Sparky... .that came from xBPDbf belief that I sparked his flame!  I know better now.  Although there were times when he pushed me so far and so hard for so long that, ya I lost it.  Do I regret it?  Hell no! 

The difference between his rages and my fighting back was that I never slung 'mud'... .I never said things to him that weren't true, never!  He absolutely hated the word 'abuse'... .hmmm, I wonder why?  He called his violent physical abuse 'mistakes'... .his emotional/verbal abuse was out of his control.

Ya, I fueled the fire at times by calling a spade a spade... .abuse is abuse, no matter how he minimized it.  That pissed him off.   

During one particular ugly 'episode' he tackled me and threw me to the floor, I fell square on my tailbone, severely bruising it... .while I was lying on the floor (sobbing and terrified) thinking momentarily I was paralyzed, he stepped over me saying "get the F out of my way!"  I went nuts, screaming, shaking and sobbing out of control, telling him to get his abusive ___ out of my life, to go beat the hell out of someone else.  When he realized (within a minute) that he'd actually injured me, he tried to comfort me by holding me and telling me how sorry he was!  Sadly (for me), I succumbed to his pleas for forgiveness the following day... .how stupid was I?  I believed him.  Those days are gone now! And so is he.

[62324]

I have different stages of "fighting back" when I am in an argument.

Stage 1: I become very quiet.  My face sometimes twists into a frown, but generally I don't say anything.  If I don't say anthing, it's a pretty good indicator that I'm angry or feel unfairly treated.  Ex's response: [Chasing me out of the room] "You need to talk to me.  You can't do this to me.  You can't [etc., etc. about how I'm a horrible person]"

Stage 2: Logical counterpoint.  I do my best to start with, "I understand what you're saying/why you think that, but... .[my side of the story]." Exe's response: Twisting anything I say, even if it doesn't have anything to do with her, into an outright attack.  Lies if necessary, facts are twisted and/or fabricated, no complete sentences on my part are allowed.

Stage 3: Yelling.  I am not being heard and/or understood by sheer force of ignorance (not by logically disproving anything or raising valid suspicions) and I begin to become frustrated enough to raise my voice.  If the argument has reached this stage, it's probably a good 45 minutes to an hour into the whole situation.

Stage 4: Debasing the other party on their own ridiculous reasons for starting the argument in the first place, screaming and raking them over the coals for their own depressing existence and complete refusal to live in a realistic world.  Hint: I HAVE NEVER KNOWN THIS STAGE EXISTED UNTIL I WAS WITH MY BPDEXGF.

My point being: the only reason I ever fought fire with fire was because I was pushed to the point of feeling like I was living in the Twilight Zone, taking "crazy pills".  I have never had an argument with anyone before, during the relationship, or since that was quite so incoherent and incomprehensible as one with my ex.

[Believe]

My point being: the only reason I ever fought fire with fire was because I was pushed to the point of feeling like I was living in the Twilight Zone, taking "crazy pills".  I have never had an argument with anyone before, during the relationship, or since that was quite so incoherent and incomprehensible as one with my ex.

I completely relate to that Twilight Zone feeling. Completely. Great description of what it was like to fight with my uB/NPD ex.

[id-crisis]

I just remembered something else that was incredibly frustrating that led to a good few dramatic incidences before being bullied into watching my every step.

When he did manage to contain himself enough not to launch into an instant tirade over a perceived criticism/rejection from me, I would respond to his complaint/issue in my typical manner (probably with a look of sheer incredulity on my face) by asking what I thought, was a pertinent question. I'm not particularly gifted at expressing myself succinctly when under pressure and would typically say a little too much. However, I always stuck to the actual issue and was as objective as possible. That has always been my natural response in slightly hairy situations with fiery or obnoxious people.

He would ALWAYS completely disregard the thoughtful & reasonable intent in my response and continue to confront me in an accusing and intimidating tone, on the most petty, irrelevant few words I uttered during my response.

God, that was so frustrating. I swear it must've been deliberate. He must have loved confrontation. It's still only starting to dawn on me that he was one helluva diva. If he didn't suffer from what I firmly believe is BPD, he'd still be a total diva b***h from hell.

I read someone's post round here that will always stick with me, and that helps me deal with the guilt I feel for the part I played in his dysfunction ... . just because they suffer from BPD, doesn't mean they're not still an ___h**e.  Or something to that effect  

[mindful]

I wonder too.  If we repress our anger--- and it gets projected out... .then perhaps the person with BPD gets to be the reactive lightening rod for the relationship.   Maybe because if we don't transform our anger then the person with BPD is more prone too being angry.  And this is not a rationalization to excuse abuse.  I don't care what is in you... .  or what pressure a situation puts on you... .the skill to have is to own your stuff and work with it non abusively.  BPD or not.

There were many times when I know I got angry and quiet and denied anger because I didn't feel there was a safe way to disclose.  I was fuming and quiet.  Too many times when I disclosed vulnerabilities I was belittled.   I wonder if that is a signal in a relationship that is destined to be over or you need help---- when you anticipate an abusive reaction habitually is that not a form of self abuse to stay there?  You shut down and become frightened. 

[id-crisis]

I wonder too.  If we repress our anger--- and it gets projected out... .then perhaps the person with BPD gets to be the reactive lightening rod for the relationship.

 


It has to doesn't it?  Nothing is healthy about repression. Not for any of the parties involved.

[62324]

It has to doesn't it?  Nothing is healthy about repression. Not for any of the parties involved.

I threw down so many things into the pit of my subconscious because I felt it wasn't "safe" to let them out for fear of the reaction from my ex.  What happens (in any relationship, least of all one as pathological and unhealthy as with a pwBPD) is that it grows like a cancer and eats you alive.  Bottled up sadness, anger and resentment just grow until they consume you.  Trust me, I know.

When I told my T that I didn't know what I was repressing/running from/self-medicating anymore, she kind of blindsided me and made me laugh.  In as many words: "It's no secret, really, you said it yourself -- you've been pretty miserable for quite a long time."