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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Is it cheating if you're not in an official relationship?  (Read 476 times)
Valentine09
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« on: September 17, 2010, 04:16:48 PM »

My exgf would always excuse her bad behavior by saying that when she treated me badly we weren't officially dating, so I shouldn't be upset by it.  She said she'd treat me better if we were in a real relationshp.  By bad behavior I mean she would belittle me, talk to me about other guys as if I was a girl-friend, text guys while she was out with me, was on internet dating sites and at the same time treating me like a boyfriend.  It was very confusing as to what the relationship was.  She wanted to cuddle with me but not kiss me for the longest time.   Whenever I'd get close she'd push me away and go to another guy.  When I finally got tired of being strung along and told her I didn't want to do this any longer she told me she loved me and asked to be in an official relationship, where she kept up her bad behavior.  So she proved that even in an official relationship she'd treat me even worse.

She tried to get back with me last month and the last straw was when she claimed she never cheated on me... .just left me for lots of guys and had sex with them while telling me she loved me.  So is that cheating?  It's downright disrespectful and inconsiderate of my feelings.  I never could make her realize this.  She said she felt no pain, just knew that she put me through hell.

She claims the best times with me were when there wasn't any pressure to be more than friends (yet now she thinks she can handle a romantic relationship with me), and I'd agree that was when she was her least disordered self.  

Do they always consider it "NOT CHEATING"?  It's like, if she didn't consider all she did as cheating, then she'd probably think the same behavior was okay and justified if I gave her another chance.
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beenburned
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2010, 05:02:52 PM »

Same happened with me. They are like monkeys, they don't let go of the branch until they have a hold of another. Mine would break up with me then a few days later be dating someone else but keeping me along by a string. They can blame that ur not really together but if u pulled the same crap they rage telling u that u cheated on them. They are oneway. You ever heard the saying u can't turn a whore into a house wife no matter how hard u try. Lol. I'm telling you the longer u have this woman in ur life the more guys are going to be running up in there and she is going to throw it in ur face when u guys breakup. U will never forget the damage is done. Cut her at of ur life.
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2010
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2010, 05:40:30 PM »

I think the more important question to answer is whether or not you thought it was cheating. At a certain point you’ll have to come to terms with your own acceptance of fantasy. That once you made this relationship “official” –a firm boundary would exist to stop all her acting-out behaviors. This “official” status was your brain’s way of putting your foot down and demanding respect- but it was an idea that only you had, not her.

Borderlines do not share firm boundaries- they rebel against them. They act out in impulsive behaviors because that’s all they know. They don’t know how to follow through on their word and be calm. They don't have the ability to self-soothe.  They cling to others and then disappear on you only to have you find them clinging to someone else.  They do not plan ahead and hold long term goals- everything to a Borderline is fantasy based.

They do know how to mirror though, and mirroring might give you the impression that they know how to respect other people, but mirroring comes with a paradox.  The “paradox” of mirrors is what scientists call the inverted image you see. There is no paradox with up and down in a mirror- but left and right are inverted. When you think about it- the person in the mirror is facing the wrong way and looking behind you. (They don’t really see what you see.)

Adult borderlines have learned to latch onto hosts (that they mirror) so that they are valued and kept safe.  Their creative and psychic energy is expended not as free, representations of their own energy, but as representations of *your* energy. (Mirroring is a skill learned in childhood. It is perception based- not yours- but ironically, the Borderlines. ) Are you critical or afraid or domineering or a cruel? The Borderline has an opinion, but that opinion has to do with them, not you.  They do not see what you see- The mirror faces them in the wrong direction. Esoterically, the image in the mirror is looking at where you came from- not where you are going.

Borderlines need an identity to latch on to.  They have never been able to free themselves from childhood bondage and they need to replicate the parental identity that controlled them. As children, they expended most of their energy (what Freud calls libido) into their parents (those *objects* that they perceive as black holes) ~and the failure to launch as a separate human being, is a frustration that haunts them. This means that the perceived “parent” (that's you) will eventually view them as defective, they need to find a replacement fast-and start mirroring the new target.  This might even be when you think things are going great. It's not your interpretation that counts at all.

And because this “defective” concept haunts them, they re-live (over and over again) a persecution complex that eats away at *what if?* i.e., What if I did this differently? What if I did that?  The repetition compulsion to fix lies dormant until it’s activated in an emotional resonance with an identity that is *perceived* as very important- (important enough to replace or activate the identity of the Parents, i.e; the primary objects.)

The outcome of this compulsion (childhood game of chance) has already been called. The primary objects already exist in the Borderline mind as critical. The Parents have set a precedent of withdrawing their love (if they ever felt it to begin with) and they have given a tarred judgment that still exists in the inner dialogue of the Borderline brain.  The child was/is to blame for everything that is wrong and will never be loved for Just being themselves, i.e; the true self.

The victim, then, is the Borderline. All others are persecutors or rescuers, black or white, bad or good. But maybe, just maybe, they can fix this (the repetition compulsion) Maybe one person isn’t critical- this is the chance they take with every losing, acting-out, boundary-less, impulsive interaction, because in their brain, a hidden tape is playing that defines the outcome of intimacy = and that is persecution.  The only way to escape that is to keep moving.

Unfortunately they don’t realize that the consequences of these acting out behaviors (looking outside of themselves) diminish the reality of being loved for their real selves. (the real self remains hidden for fear of being judged as worthless.) That libidinal energy that they expended to mirror their parent and please and provide them with a host has now become a grown up false identity. One who mirrors (to provide them with instant feedback.)

They mirror to see. They mirror in order to provide *you* with a positive affect so that *they* are valued- And they choose high ranking hosts that they perceive to be high ranking identities (like a parent) to work out a sadistic cocktail of retribution.

They see love in your eyes, but they know it’s all about you- not them. They also see weakness in you which they manipulate.  They fail to understand weakness in themselves unless they can use this to their advantage (instigating your rescuing behaviors, which they perceive as control issues.) Rescuing behaviors already have a stigma attached of *above and below/lessor victim.* But according to a Borderline, their victim role isn’t temporary, it’s permanent slavery and it is replicating the childhood bond.

You are now categorized as the Master. They are the slave. The underlying assumption is that you perceive them as weak and without identity- therefore you are persecutorial.  You are sadistic and you are cruel- just like their parent.

You, on the other hand, will not recognize a repetition compulsion of the original childhood bond.  You won’t recognize that Borderline bond that keeps them searching for themselves with slavery and persecution in the mix.  You are being lulled into a false complacency- with mirroring behaviors that look and feel like true love.

You feel you have finally found “the one”- the one who allows you to be yourself, that accepts you for who you are- That’s fantasy.  The reality is you’re now in the web of a personality disordered person who mirrors. (A Borderline that knows you want to feel better about yourself- which in turn guarantees their survival and value.) By holding up a mirror to you and saying-“ if you exist- so do I,” a Borderline leads you down a primrose path of hope.  As they say, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

The pavement begins with a shared existence value of love and then decays into disruptive and dramatic perceptions of persecution and control. The disorder demands black and white thinking, fear of abandonment and impulsive solutions to fix the fear that involves repetition compulsions of your replacement- which in effect, turns them into sadists in much the same way they perceive others.  Welcome to Hell.

These solution theories they have of replacing you with others never works, never is successful- and it keeps them further and further away from *becoming* themselves; which is really about having autonomy and self actualization. You cannot point this out to them without appearing like a persecutor.

That leaves you behind, wondering, what the hell happened on this road I had paved with such good intentions?  Why do I feel such shame? Why was my character revoked? (BTW, not true) It is still there, still true- still an original identity outlined and bare- maybe battered and bruised, but still vaguely familiar.  You will recollect it and start again.

What’s left is to determine what was important about the interaction (known as an “interaction,” not a “relationship”)- what you want to keep positive about it and what you feel is tainted and cruel and you need to let go of, who you were in retrospect with the mirroring that you liked and why you still can’t be that person reflected to you.

Everything is still there. Your identity is still there. It cannot be revoked by the withdrawal of a cruel and character disordered human. You must regroup, rebuild and re-do. Take your time. Do not rush. Be alone for awhile. Be good to yourself. Life will wait for you.

You can dig up and revisit the past. You must not think that you’re going to walk into the future holding hands with a Borderline with this new-found information. You see, they are facing the wrong way.  They were always facing the wrong way- and they were never going to see things from your point of view- ever.  They were always looking backwards in that mirror- and you were always looking ahead. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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beenburned
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2010, 05:49:47 PM »

I think the more important question to answer is whether or not you thought it was cheating. At a certain point you’ll have to come to terms with your own acceptance of fantasy. That once you made this relationship “official” –a firm boundary would exist to stop all her acting-out behaviors. This “official” status was your brain’s way of putting your foot down and demanding respect- but it was an idea that only you had, not her.

So very true, if she did it once and you took her back then she gets away and thinks that it is normal.  She will keep doing it until you let go and go NC.
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Disgruntled
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2010, 08:37:27 PM »

2010... .I love reading your posts and take a lot of what you say to heart.  In your opinion... .do you think that there is hope for pwBPD?  Does thearapy and medicine ever get them 'facing the right way" ?  I know that my situation is a lost cause.  I am aware that if my ex, even if she does stick with thearapy, does get better... .it will take YEARS.  No one can undo 45 years of this in a few months. I just want to know if you believe there is real recovery for these people? 
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Valentine09
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2010, 11:16:32 PM »

Yeah, had I known better I would have let her go the first time a year and a half ago.  She most recently told me I was her soul mate and wanted to get married, but that's just impossible.  Your soul mate would never dump you for another guy within two weeks of making an ultimatum to them.  The actual relationship was over in November and now it's final.  My fear of never finding anyone else is what kept me hooked.

I do consider what she did cheating.  Even for the many months when we weren't official, when she finally asked me to be her boyfriend and have a real relationship her bad behavior escalated to the point where she treated me like I was completely yucky.  Made no sense.  Who does that?  Nobody normal.  Nobody that really loves me.
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id-crisis
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« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2010, 02:01:24 AM »

2010... .I love reading your posts and take a lot of what you say to heart.  

I find myself bookmarking 2010's posts. They're incredibly valuable insights that really put it back into perspective for me. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Although there was one description I couldn't figure out:

"shared existence value of love" - anyone care to help me out?


Excerpt
In your opinion... .do you think that there is hope for pwBPD?  :)oes thearapy and medicine ever get them 'facing the right way" ?  I know that my situation is a lost cause.  I am aware that if my ex, even if she does stick with thearapy, does get better... .it will take YEARS.  No one can undo 45 years of this in a few months. I just want to know if you believe there is real recovery for these people?  

Good question DG, I look forward to 2010's opinion.

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