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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: really? this logic and word choice - really?  (Read 886 times)
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« on: December 17, 2010, 08:28:00 PM »

HI,

If you have followed my last 7 months of disengaging & divorcing; you may recall my stbx stole (relocated) all of our joint money market in an effort to blackmail me into selling the house.  This was after I offered to buy her out of the house last Sept.

Well, lawyers later and she has to add me to the new account & it is frozen.  She emails the signature page and I see she has added her brother as a beneficiary.  I question it and ask her to kindly remove him until this is all resolved.

Her response:

Brother has always been the “beneficiary” on the account (on my original account prior to you becoming a joint account holder, as well as on the original joint account). He is NOT an account holder and has zero access to the money. He would not even know about the account unless an event occurred that resulted in the untimely & simultaneous death of us both, prior to resolution of the matter.

Again, Brother has not been “added” to the account in any fashion. If you would like to discuss changing his status, please have your attorney confer with my attorney as to the best manner in which to do that. Even if you want to do that subsequently (and, I am open to a solution that works for you), you may still sign the signature card to reinstate your access to the account.


Now it will cost about $400 in legal time to show 1. AS this is a "new" account opened with our funds stolen; indeed, she did add him to the account. 2. He was not on the old account. 3. I do not want him tied to any of my funds in an "untimely, simultaneous death".  In our state, all monies go to spouse until a divorce is final; nothing can be changed prior to this.

Now, she actually copied both of our attorneys on this.  Ummm, word choice of untimely & simultaneous death - what on earth is going through her head?  Considering we have only been in the same room 4 times (funeral & court 2 &  mc (trying to separate money prior to divorce lawyers)] in the last 5 months, is it really plausable we have an untimely and simultaneous death?   

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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2010, 09:06:59 PM »

HI,

If you have followed my last 7 months of disengaging & divorcing; you may recall my stbx stole (relocated) all of our joint money market in an effort to blackmail me into selling the house.  This was after I offered to buy her out of the house last Sept.

Well, lawyers later and she has to add me to the new account & it is frozen.  She emails the signature page and I see she has added her brother as a beneficiary.  I question it and ask her to kindly remove him until this is all resolved.

Her response:

Brother has always been the “beneficiary” on the account (on my original account prior to you becoming a joint account holder, as well as on the original joint account). He is NOT an account holder and has zero access to the money. He would not even know about the account unless an event occurred that resulted in the untimely & simultaneous death of us both, prior to resolution of the matter.

Again, Brother has not been “added” to the account in any fashion. If you would like to discuss changing his status, please have your attorney confer with my attorney as to the best manner in which to do that. Even if you want to do that subsequently (and, I am open to a solution that works for you), you may still sign the signature card to reinstate your access to the account.


Now it will cost about $400 in legal time to show 1. AS this is a "new" account opened with our funds stolen; indeed, she did add him to the account. 2. He was not on the old account. 3. I do not want him tied to any of my funds in an "untimely, simultaneous death".  In our state, all monies go to spouse until a divorce is final; nothing can be changed prior to this.

Now, she actually copied both of our attorneys on this.  Ummm, word choice of untimely & simultaneous death - what on earth is going through her head?  Considering we have only been in the same room 4 times (funeral & court 2 &  mc (trying to separate money prior to divorce lawyers)] in the last 5 months, is it really plausable we have an untimely and simultaneous death?   

Be careful
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2010, 09:43:00 PM »

Who do you want to be the beneficiary? The determination of one is necessary to settle your estate. Not being able to decide on a beneficiary leaves the estate to be executed under the State *if* both of you become deceased at the same time.  Simultaneous death is not uncommon, but it is a worst case scenario- so the addition of a third party beneficiary is a fall back measure to keep money in the family.  These documents are default to the spouse should one of you die. If you have a different beneficiary in mind- keep aware that they are the recipient of your estate only- should your spouse or yourself die. The holdings then have to be legally determined. This is done before and documented- not afterward. She is entitled to claim a beneficiary and you are as well. The beneficiaries would be placed on the document with a 50/50 split.  You can even put on more beneficiaries and split the money divided by the numbers of beneficiaries.
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2010, 10:12:59 PM »

Who do you want to be the beneficiary? The determination of one is necessary to settle your estate. Not being able to decide on a beneficiary leaves the estate to be executed under the State *if* both of you become deceased at the same time.  Simultaneous death is not uncommon, but it is a worst case scenario- so the addition of a third party beneficiary is a fall back measure to keep money in the family.  These documents are default to the spouse should one of you die. If you have a different beneficiary in mind- keep aware that they are the recipient of your estate only- should your spouse or yourself die. The holdings then have to be legally determined. This is done before and documented- not afterward. She is entitled to claim a beneficiary and you are as well. The beneficiaries would be placed on the document with a 50/50 split.  You can even put on more beneficiaries and split the money divided by the numbers of beneficiaries.

The money in question is actually 75% mine contributed as acknowledged by both attorneys.  Yes, my solution will be to handle the money as you mentioned.  This is the same person that when I wanted us to get life insurance policies after we purchased our house said angrily "what goes on in you that makes you think these things."  My answer was "I love you and if somehting happened to either of us, I wouldnt want us to lose our home."  I guess the context of this was completely opposite of everything she had said in the past - and untrue.  Her brother was not the beneficiary in the past and she has not been proactive about planning anything.  We also have wills that would deal with this.  This was a logical statement said by a person who has not acted logical whatsoever - remember, she is adding me back to the account after completely closing the account and moving the money in an effort to blackmail me rather than just settle.
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2010, 02:06:51 AM »

Do the words murder suicide mean anything to you?  ? :)on't let your guard down and watch har friends and family for sneaky, threatening behavior as well.  Stay clear of them. 
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2010, 03:11:38 AM »

Excerpt
Her brother was not the beneficiary in the past and she has not been proactive about planning anything.  We also have wills that would deal with this.  This was a logical statement said by a person who has not acted logical whatsoever - remember, she is adding me back to the account after completely closing the account and moving the money

If she once moved the money then re-opened a new account to put it back- then she is listening to her lawyer. If her lawyer has told her to put the money back and fill out all of the documents- then you've got to do the same. The financial institution that holds your interest (and hers as a joint account holder) would like to know if you wish to designate a beneficiary. This is a simple preparatory matter for the benefit of the account holder *as well* as the institution that holds the money. (Your wills are separate and may be legally challenged, something that the institution would rather stay out of.  They do that with one simple request of who to transfer the money to, and they need that in writing with both of your signatures. The execution of the estate works best that way: in preparation, not afterthought.

Now, having said that- I dont think that this wording of "simultaneous death" is anything other than a phrase which is suitable for the reasons for why you both need a beneficiary. Normally the default is to benefit the Spouse. The document HAS the need for a "simultaneous death" clause and you can pretty much guarantee that everyone on the board has had to sign one too for their estate planning.  It's what bankers call a CYA (cover your ass) for their side and a JIC file (just in case) for your side. Bottom line - it's in your best interest to sign it. She's put her Brother down-and she is in legal rights to do so. Now it's your turn to choose who you want to place as a beneficiary and let them share half the benefit. All of this is moot really until the divorce is over, as once the courts get involved, it's out of your hands. Your lawyer will guide you. When the divorce is finalized you wont have to deal with her beneficiary at all. At that point, the choice will be 100% yours on who gets your money. 

Other than that, if you feel that your life is being threatened by the term "simultaneous death"- document it and tell the police.  Only you know who you're dealing with and what they are capable of. Idea

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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2010, 03:34:40 AM »

I am a high end banker that deals with estates and investments such as these. You are joint account holders meaning 50/50 until the matter is straightened out through lawyers which each party is entiled too. You can have multiple beneficaries on an account. In this way if it calms you put your beneficary on the account to also have access to your portion of the funds in the case of unforseen events you stated. Also there are different joint accounts... .joint tenant with right with survivorship etc. Each one has a different entiltement for ownership for account holders and their beneificaries if one or both parties pass.

Please check the 'joint" status of the account so it is in a form that is suitable and agreeable to you both as there are several forms of joint accounts and not all with joint TWROS which is most common form. In a simultaneous death the account each of your estates would recieve 50% of the account. To be honest as a friend I think you have more pressing issues to deal with and at least she is complying. Don't sweat the small stuff that should never even come to play as it will make you look like the one that is hard to deal with and take onus off her. Keep the eye on the ball which is "you" at this point.

Hope it goes well in your proceedings
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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2010, 09:15:15 AM »

Thanks for the feedback Canucky.  I had already planned to call this am and add my own beneficiary without needing to go back and forth through attorneys.

When I posted, it was more out of emotion rather than logic.  I did not react this way to either my attorney or her - with her, I simply said thank you for the information.

I honestly hate this process.
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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2010, 10:36:26 PM »

so, apparently - I cannot add my beneficiary. The bank let me do it easily; but her attorney is saying they don't agree to it.  I don't know the details, but they have us on a technicality somehow.  I have a meeting with my attorney tomorrow to find out more.  The entire thing is frustrating.  Now, why would it be an issue to add me for my proceeds?  Is this just more BPD mind games?
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