Why we can never go back. What I learned.

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I think the bottom line is this: We are old news. We are not new and shiny.

Why does that matter? I think it matters because when they were all about us, it wasn't real. It was fake. We were new. We were simply the next "savior." No one can ever be their savior so once they figured out that we were not their savior, it was game over. Game over because unlike us, they never had real feelings. They are not capable. We were the new toy. So, because they never had real feelings, there is nothing that we can go back to. Once a child moves from one toy to the next, they may pick up the old toy and give it a whirl, but it is an old toy. It's an old car, and old tv. you might be curious about it, but you don't love it. Not like your new toy. To continue, if their new toy fails them, as it will, they may go back to their old toy, until there is yet another new toy. If your new car breaks down, you happily drive your old car, how convenient, until you get a new car, then bye bye old car. This is how they see people, this is how they see us.

This is why they can never care like we do. They simply never ever did really care like we do. So it is all very pointless. If we stick around, all we are doing is waiting for the few scrapes they may throw our way. But make no mistake, they do not love us and never did. They can't even treat us as basic friends treat each other. We are nothing to them but an occasional ego boost or temporary fix for when they are without a shiny new object.

We are better than that. Better than how they are capable of treating us. I think this is at the core of why they often just don't seem to care at all. Because they really don't care at all, unless they need something. Whether that something is a 'fix' or help of some sort.

We are way way past being expired to them. I guarantee they have gone through others, and I mean others as in plural, all the while us here were at home being all sad and pathetic about them, and I guarantee they were out having fun with new shiny objects. We would have to be pretty stupid to believe that we are the only ones. They are, after all, BPD. It's in their DNA.

This is my BPD revelation. Finally.

[Gaslit]

I think the bottom line is this: We are old news. We are not new and shiny.

Why does that matter? I think it matters because when they were all about us, it wasn't real. It was fake. We were new. We were simply the next "savior." No one can ever be their savior so once they figured out that we were not their savior, it was game over. Game over because unlike us, they never had real feelings. They are not capable. We were the new toy. So, because they never had real feelings, there is nothing that we can go back to. Once a child moves from one toy to the next, they may pick up the old toy and give it a whirl, but it is an old toy. It's an old car, and old tv. you might be curious about it, but you don't love it. Not like your new toy. To continue, if their new toy fails them, as it will, they may go back to their old toy, until there is yet another new toy. If your new car breaks down, you happily drive your old car, how convenient, until you get a new car, then bye bye old car. This is how they see people, this is how they see us.

This is why they can never care like we do. They simply never ever did really care like we do. So it is all very pointless. If we stick around, all we are doing is waiting for the few scrapes they may throw our way. But make no mistake, they do not love us and never did. They can't even treat us as basic friends treat each other. We are nothing to them but an occasional ego boost or temporary fix for when they are without a shiny new object.

We are better than that. Better than how they are capable of treating us. I think this is at the core of why they often just don't seem to care at all. Because they really don't care at all, unless they need something. Whether that something is a 'fix' or help of some sort.

We are way way past being expired to them. I guarantee they have gone through others, and I mean others as in plural, all the while us here were at home being all sad and pathetic about them, and I guarantee they were out having fun with new shiny objects. We would have to be pretty stupid to believe that we are the only ones. They are, after all, BPD. It's in their DNA.

This is my BPD revelation. Finally.

[octopus]

Yes Gaslit, I believe that too.  It is fake and so there obviously is no going back.  But wow it takes a long time to really digest that.  You can't wind back because we too as 'nons' have discovered their problem and certainly for me, I have withdrawn from my business partner BPD alot.  I know that any friendship we may have is superficial and I can't/ wont let myself get drawn into (unfortunately) the 'happy' moments we have with our clients etc. with her because it's a path to destruction.

[Why Why Why]

I completely agree with your post Gaslit and have thought a similar thing.

Once they are done with us, we become old and boring.  Nobody wants to go back to something they already had, they want something new, fresh, and exciting.  They move on to the fancy new one, which brings along an exciting honeymoon period.  This makes us appear even that much more "old and boring".  Even if it should (and it will) end with the next one, all they can remember is that honeymoon feeling and so they seek out to re-capture that high.  They only return to us when they can't find a new toy, but as soon as they do it's bye-bye!

I definitely believe more and more that they never did care for us or even love us.  It is alllllll about them and the necessity to be in that honeymoon stage.

[BrokenBeat&Scarred]

Gaslight,

It's soo obvious, but really hits you when put to words like that.  It's really true.

I'm the old GI Joe forgotten in the dirt. I need to get that through my thick skull and be my own "All American Hero"... .

[BecomingCentered]

I can't really say I agree that a borderline's feelings aren't real.  If that's what you need to tell yourself to move on  and avoid getting trapped in a horribly dysfunctional relationship then by all means, do so... .but if you read the research on BPD you'll realize that BPs are not incapable of real human emotion... .quite the contrary... .it's all very intense for them, much like that of a 12 year old who hasn't learned to regulate their emotions or have realistic expectations of human behavior.  Children engage in "splitting" by nature -- they see things in very black and white terms, and it's only through experience and maturity that we come to see shades of grey.  Borderlines tend not to have this ability... .they see you as either are good or all evil... .and they cast themselves in the same light.  When they love you, they love you completely without reservation... .and when they hate you, they hate you completely.  If they had the ability to see shades of grey, they could learn to love you despite your flaws, gradually and over time, the way healthy love evolves.

None of this is meant to encourage anyone to go back into an abusive situation.  I just ended a relationship with a BP and I refuse to go back... .but I find it helpful to understand the inner-turmoil of someone with BP, rather than thinking of her as a sociopath... .which she's not... .anti-social personality disorder is very different because sociopaths really aren't capable of compassion, love and empathy.  Borderlines, on the other hand, love and hate with extraordinary intensity, often in the same day, shifting their feelings as the wind blows.  Their intense fear of abandonment causes them to cling to you and push you away at the same time... .their denial prevents them from taking a realistic look at how their behavior destroys relationships.

Regardless, I agree with the original sentiment... .don't go back!  But don't entirely devalue your experience, because I'm sure there were some beautiful moments, and those were just as real as the ugly ones.

Just my two cents.

[GlennT]

Epic post Gas...  We love that shiney toy analogy . It's always a classic! It shows how their moral values and integrity are in the crapper.

[Why Why Why]

I can't really say I agree that a borderline's feelings aren't real.  If that's what you need to tell yourself to move on  and avoid getting trapped in a horribly dysfunctional relationship then by all means, do so... .but if you read the research on BPD you'll realize that BPs are not incapable of real human emotion... .quite the contrary... .it's all very intense for them, much like that of a 12 year old who hasn't learned to regulate their emotions or have realistic expectations of human behavior.  Children engage in "splitting" by nature -- they see things in very black and white terms, and it's only through experience and maturity that we come to see shades of grey.  Borderlines tend not to have this ability... .they see you as either are good or all evil... .and they cast themselves in the same light.  When they love you, they love you completely without reservation... .and when they hate you, they hate you completely.  If they had the ability to see shades of grey, they could learn to love you despite your flaws, gradually and over time, the way healthy love evolves.

None of this is meant to encourage anyone to go back into an abusive situation.  I just ended a relationship with a BP and I refuse to go back... .but I find it helpful to understand the inner-turmoil of someone with BP, rather than thinking of her as a sociopath... .which she's not... .anti-social personality disorder is very different because sociopaths really aren't capable of compassion, love and empathy.  Borderlines, on the other hand, love and hate with extraordinary intensity, often in the same day, shifting their feelings as the wind blows.  Their intense fear of abandonment causes them to cling to you and push you away at the same time... .their denial prevents them from taking a realistic look at how their behavior destroys relationships.

Regardless, I agree with the original sentiment... .don't go back!  But don't entirely devalue your experience, because I'm sure there were some beautiful moments, and those were just as real as the ugly ones.

Just my two cents.

I do not doubt for a split second that a pwBPD's feelings are real and that they can/do experience real emotion.  They are human beings after all.  In my case, however, I now question whether my ex actually cared FOR ME and loved ME, which, after examining all 'evidence' from a clearer frame of mind, I can only logically conclude that she did not.  My ex certainly cared FOR HER and loved HERSELF and from the experiences I've read from others I must disagree with your statement that when a pwBPD loves you, they love you completely without reservation.  I don't think a pwBPD ever truly understands loving another.  They love themselves and try to self-preserve.  Love to a pwBPD is whatever makes them feel good and safe in that moment, just as a kid loves a shiney new toy but as soon as the next one comes along they love that one more and the old one goes into the abyss.  Is that really love?  It's more a high than anything else.

I now see that I am just one guy in a long list of many, every guy before me and every guy after me to experience her same "love and care".  I've read dialogue between her and the new guy and I must say, it was repulsive to say the least as it stinks of selfish motivation which she is conveying as "love".  The chances of my ex being able to care and love the way 'normal' people do are slim to none.   

[octopus]

That's true WWW, it IS all about them, we know that.  And it's very sad that they are so absorbed  in themselves due to inability to move on from their childhood suffering/lack of emotional growth.

So whether that fantastic feeling of adoration when they are painting you white is real love, might be somantics  but like what has been written here, it is not part of a full, mature 'love you with your flaws' authenticity.

[2010]

While the analogy of new objects rings true for narcissism, for Borderlines it's not the same. Narcissists are grandiose false selves and they pick and choose people based on how well they can revolve around the pretentious ego. For Borderline, the ego is very fragile, as the "self" hasn't had the ability to separate/individuate to become a self soothing adult with free will. BPD needs others to be a complete self. Consequently the movements toward and away from people are based upon a deficient ego that seeks to attach and then flee from the attachment that is perceived as controlling. Borderlines are part time selves, Narcissists are not. Narcissists have a grandiose full time false self: they are falsely serving their ego needs. Borderlines are falsely serving their deficiencies.

Part time selves feel whole when they can attach to other people, but this also triggers anxiety for the part time person because two people do not make a "whole" person- they actually make two people! Borderlines really take the concept of a "better half" and offer it up as a valuation of sorts. If you are seeking validation yourself, this offering can seem like true love. To a Borderline it serves a purpose: bondage.

Attachment is the driving force of BPD. Detachment (grandiosity) is the driving force of NPD.

The shiny toy analogy where one is used, devalued and discarded is NPD. There is minimal persecution that drives the devaluing of an object for a narcissist- it's mainly done because there is a narcissistic injury (someone has cut the Narcissist down to size and control of the object is lost.)

Borderline, on the other hand, is a persecution complex. The Borderline expects to be controlled and moves back and forth away from this control in drama and chaos.

One is a matter of pride (NPD) The object is subsumed and becomes a part of the narcissist- eventually devalued and discarded (abandoned) after engulfment. The other is a deficient self (BPD) that attaches for survival and then suffers great anxiety in a swinging pendulum fear of abandonment *and* engulfment so it becomes clinging and hating behaviors.  Both cluster B's start off with seductive mirroring in order to entice. The NPD says, what can you do for me and the BPD says what can I do for you... . 

[harlemgurl]

Hey All.

Not to hijack this topic but we all know that the BPD/NPD lines are a blurred symbiotic dance. From the stories I've read on here and my own experience I often can't tell one from the other.  ? The only reason why I believe my ex suffered from BPD is because he was so emotionally dysregulated and so all over the place. He lacked self-sufficiency, was controlling, possessive, and super jealous (he called it love) but hell if he didn't live and die by his narcissistic entitlement demands. My job was to be mommy and when I didn't comply; ALL BETS WERE OFF. The loving child inside of my BPD ex became the punisher.

The shiny toy analogy can work if we want to be viewed as victims; but all of us here on this forum are way more important and far more valuable that seeing ourselves as victims.

At the end of the day the labels don't matter. Their behavior is inexcusable.  Its the behavior that's asinine. The behavior is why we can never go back. The question is: why were our boundaries non-existent? Why did we allow them to violate us repeatedly? Why were we confused about the type of love that they offered? Why did we believe in their words and not their actions?

As for whether they loved us or not I contend that there are many faces to love.  My BPD ex's NEEDINESS and emotional vulnerability led me to believe that he BELIEVED he loved me. He didn't see me as a partner; he saw me as a parent. It doesn't mean he didn't love me.  It just wasn't mature reciprocal love. To a person with BPD love=need. To them love means having their needs met. We have no right to determine what "their" feelings are. We have no right to say that they can't or don't love. What we do have a right to do is accept that "their" version of love is not the "kind" that we want. We we do have control over is the type of love that we "feel" we deserve.

In their BPD world love=need. In our world BPD love=abuse. But the question is: why do we need them to validate us with their sick version of love?

HG

[learnedtolaugh]

I think that the concept behind this is "lack of object constancy." If there was another way of saying it it might be relational ADD.

[loveisblind]

I can't really say I agree that a borderline's feelings aren't real.  If that's what you need to tell yourself to move on  and avoid getting trapped in a horribly dysfunctional relationship then by all means, do so... .but if you read the research on BPD you'll realize that BPs are not incapable of real human emotion... .quite the contrary... .it's all very intense for them, much like that of a 12 year old who hasn't learned to regulate their emotions or have realistic expectations of human behavior.  Children engage in "splitting" by nature -- they see things in very black and white terms, and it's only through experience and maturity that we come to see shades of grey.  Borderlines tend not to have this ability... .they see you as either are good or all evil... .and they cast themselves in the same light.  When they love you, they love you completely without reservation... .and when they hate you, they hate you completely.  If they had the ability to see shades of grey, they could learn to love you despite your flaws, gradually and over time, the way healthy love evolves.

None of this is meant to encourage anyone to go back into an abusive situation.  I just ended a relationship with a BP and I refuse to go back... .but I find it helpful to understand the inner-turmoil of someone with BP, rather than thinking of her as a sociopath... .which she's not... .anti-social personality disorder is very different because sociopaths really aren't capable of compassion, love and empathy.  Borderlines, on the other hand, love and hate with extraordinary intensity, often in the same day, shifting their feelings as the wind blows.  Their intense fear of abandonment causes them to cling to you and push you away at the same time... .their denial prevents them from taking a realistic look at how their behavior destroys relationships.

Regardless, I agree with the original sentiment... .don't go back!  But don't entirely devalue your experience, because I'm sure there were some beautiful moments, and those were just as real as the ugly ones.

Just my two cents.

I agree with this so much. I first read this post and actually started to cry. I know in my heart that those beautiful special moments were just as real on his end. He is such a tortured soul and I wish he wasn't emotionally stunted. I know the research, and you put it in to words to beautifully. Thank you for reminding me that even though he was toxic, he still loves me just like he says he does. Love isn't always enough and I learned the hard way. But thank you. I just want you to know that your post reminded me how that research related to my BPD ex. You described him and and our relationship so well.

[loveisblind]

Hey All.

Not to hijack this topic but we all know that the BPD/NPD lines are a blurred symbiotic dance. From the stories I've read on here and my own experience I often can't tell one from the other.  ? The only reason why I believe my ex suffered from BPD is because he was so emotionally dysregulated and so all over the place. He lacked self-sufficiency, was controlling, possessive, and super jealous (he called it love) but hell if he didn't live and die by his narcissistic entitlement demands. My job was to be mommy and when I didn't comply; ALL BETS WERE OFF. The loving child inside of my BPD ex became the punisher.

The shiny toy analogy can work if we want to be viewed as victims; but all of us here on this forum are way more important and far more valuable that seeing ourselves as victims.

At the end of the day the labels don't matter. Their behavior is inexcusable. Its the behavior that's asinine. The behavior is why we can never go back. The question is: why were our boundaries non-existent? Why did we allow them to violate us repeatedly? Why were we confused about the type of love that they offered? Why did we believe in their words and not their actions?

As for whether they loved us or not I contend that there are many faces to love. My BPD ex's NEEDINESS and emotional vulnerability led me to believe that he BELIEVED he loved me. He didn't see me as a partner; he saw me as a parent. It doesn't mean he didn't love me. It just wasn't mature reciprocal love. To a person with BPD love=need. To them love means having their needs met. We have no right to determine what "their" feelings are. We have no right to say that they can't or don't love. What we do have a right to do is accept that "their" version of love is not the "kind" that we want. We we do have control over is the type of love that we "feel" we deserve.

In their BPD world love=need. In our world BPD love=abuse. But the question is: why do we need them to validate us with their sick version of love?

HG

I appreciated this as well. You brought up so many excellent points! Very well said.    Your ex and mine sound so so so similar! I don't doubt that he loved me, it just wasn't a healthy love that I needed.

[Vatz]

I can't go back because my method of leaving was sloppy and burned bridges.  Feeling very ashamed, I would rather not show my face to her again.  The reprimanding that I'd get would be somewhat earned.  I know they say sometimes you have to be the bigger person and take on the consequences of what you did.  But in a way, not ever seeing her again is punishment enough for me.

But that's not even the MAIN reason why I can't go back.  It's just too much drama.  If she was less angry, less mean... .see that's a stipulation.  You can't have love with stipulations.  So my love for her wasn't necessarily pure and true.  Probably another good reason not to go back.  Knowing that maybe I was also the one who didn't have a healthy love for the person. 

Sucks a lot though because I've been having dreams where we get back together.  The weird thing is that her face in the dream isn't really hers.  It's like even my subconscious can't really remember her face all that well.  That could be because when we talked I may not have looked directly at her, and a lot of times I didn't look right at her.  Maybe it was because after a while I just didn't want to see that otherwise sweet face turn into a raging mug.  I think I didn't want to attribute the anger, blame and guilt to her face.  So when she said mean things I didn't look at her. 

She might also be working on the next guy waiting to get on her.  Not that I think less of her because of it.  I don't.  It's just that there's always someone else waiting, hoping.  Probably another good reason not to go back.  In her mind I'll just become another jerk/do u che b ag/loser.  Oh well. 

[Willy]

My ex never told me she loved me. Next to telling me how special and important I am, she used to point out how much she is attached to me.