Reunification Therapy... what can you tell me?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I am in recovery, after a period of 6 years clean i had a relapse last year. I had sole custody of my 2 children ages 5 and 7. We were living in the Philly area, we moved back to ny to be closer to family, stayed with my parents. My 2 kids do not have their mother in their lives, she abandoned them. after returning to ny, i relapsed. my parents kicked me out of the house, and said they where raising the kids and that was that. I in the state i was in, tried to hold it together, but relapsed again shortly afterward. I checked myself into rehab, completed inpatient treat ment. i then completed intensive outpatient. Things with my parents are still awful, they continually bash me to my kids, this has been documented. i also have reacted when i hear my kids say stuff to me about they are told. The kids therapist who they see for about a year now, does not seem to return my calls. All my parents basically tell me is that i canlt have the kids cause i relapsed and they are happier with them. I am unclear as to what rights i have as to my children, i have a full understanding of relapsing was a terrible selfish thing. Is it normal protocol if someone in recovery relapses that they get their children taken away from them? My parents are also making up stories to other people to make me look poorly with neighbors and my kids friends parents. I am a bit afraid and confused... .I am just basically looking for some advise, i am clean and sober again now, and do what i can as to not start any conflicts for the kids, i am far from perfect. i just want my kids back, i am feeling a bit lost... .

[Dominique]

I am in recovery, after a period of 6 years clean i had a relapse last year. I had sole custody of my 2 children ages 5 and 7. We were living in the Philly area, we moved back to ny to be closer to family, stayed with my parents. My 2 kids do not have their mother in their lives, she abandoned them. after returning to ny, i relapsed. my parents kicked me out of the house, and said they where raising the kids and that was that. I in the state i was in, tried to hold it together, but relapsed again shortly afterward. I checked myself into rehab, completed inpatient treat ment. i then completed intensive outpatient. Things with my parents are still awful, they continually bash me to my kids, this has been documented. i also have reacted when i hear my kids say stuff to me about they are told. The kids therapist who they see for about a year now, does not seem to return my calls. All my parents basically tell me is that i canlt have the kids cause i relapsed and they are happier with them. I am unclear as to what rights i have as to my children, i have a full understanding of relapsing was a terrible selfish thing. Is it normal protocol if someone in recovery relapses that they get their children taken away from them? My parents are also making up stories to other people to make me look poorly with neighbors and my kids friends parents. I am a bit afraid and confused... .I am just basically looking for some advise, i am clean and sober again now, and do what i can as to not start any conflicts for the kids, i am far from perfect. i just want my kids back, i am feeling a bit lost... .

[Matt]

I am in recovery, after a period of 6 years clean i had a relapse last year. I had sole custody of my 2 children ages 5 and 7. We were living in the Philly area, we moved back to ny to be closer to family, stayed with my parents. My 2 kids do not have their mother in their lives, she abandoned them. after returning to ny, i relapsed. my parents kicked me out of the house, and said they where raising the kids and that was that. I in the state i was in, tried to hold it together, but relapsed again shortly afterward. I checked myself into rehab, completed inpatient treat ment. i then completed intensive outpatient. Things with my parents are still awful, they continually bash me to my kids, this has been documented. i also have reacted when i hear my kids say stuff to me about they are told. The kids therapist who they see for about a year now, does not seem to return my calls. All my parents basically tell me is that i canlt have the kids cause i relapsed and they are happier with them. I am unclear as to what rights i have as to my children, i have a full understanding of relapsing was a terrible selfish thing. Is it normal protocol if someone in recovery relapses that they get their children taken away from them? My parents are also making up stories to other people to make me look poorly with neighbors and my kids friends parents. I am a bit afraid and confused... .I am just basically looking for some advise, i am clean and sober again now, and do what i can as to not start any conflicts for the kids, i am far from perfect. i just want my kids back, i am feeling a bit lost... .

Dominique,

Our tradition here is to keep each thread focused on the member who started it (in this case, JustSaying).  It might be best for you to have your own thread here on the "Family Law" board, so it can be focused on your stuff.  Maybe a staff member can split this off that way... .?

By the way, my son is a recovering alcoholic and addict (meth for more than 10 years, among other things) - now clean and sober 3 years - so I admire that you built up six years of clean time, and that you're still committed to your recovery, even though you're struggling lately.  When my son was in rehab, I met some other recovering addicts, including some on the staff there, and some were in similar situations with their kids.  I'm sure the law is different in different states.  Some of them had been able to get their kids back - one staff member I got to know very well got her son back from her parents when she had a couple years of clean time, and now she has I think four or five (with one huge relapse in the middle, but she got back into a program right away when that happened).  Another woman who went through the program alongside my son, has at least four years clean now, but she still doesn't have her son back from her mother - I think her mother has permanent custody, but has agreed that might be changed later.

Do your parents now have permanent custody?

How much clean time do you have right now?

[JustSaying]

The first session with the counselor was a bit disappointing. X had already had her 90 min and the T had not seen or read the CE report. WTH? She asked if I'd email it to her? Shouldn't the CE, court, or L have done this?

So that meant X had 90 min to leave a first impression, when the first impression should have been the CE. What x said was that the CE did not reflect reality and that I was intentionally scheduling activities for D on X's visitation. The CE proved this false, but today that didn't matter.

That meant that instead of starting from a totally favorable CE report, I was starting from a hole and had to rehash all the bs I'd dealt with before and overcome with the CE. I think I got it where it needed to be, but it sucked to have everything decided legally and then be back to having to prove myself all over again and get someone to see that x's behaviors are not reasonable.

We'll see how it goes. T speaks with D for a few weeks and then comes up with a plan.

[beyondbelief]

So that meant X had 90 min to leave a first impression, when the first impression should have been the CE. What x said was that the CE did not reflect reality... .The CE proved this false, but today that didn't matter.

Yeah she got to leave the first impression and the CE was worthless today.  However Reunification Therapy is not exactly something many people go through.  My guess is the RT assumes there are some serious issues to get a case at all.  Also the RT has heard just about every story imaginable most of them quite false.  Odds are good your X dug herself a hole and the CE will be just the dirt to fill it.

I think I got it where it needed to be, but it sucked to have everything decided legally and then be back to having to prove myself all over again and get someone to see that x's behaviors are not reasonable.

I thought this was about X proving something not you.  Again she is the one in the bottom of the pit and the burden is on her to crawl up the wall.

[Matt]

Can the counselor decide anything as far as the legal issues go, or are those settled?

It might work out better this way, actually.  X says, "BB did such-and-such!", you say, "I didn't do that.", and the CE's report will break the tie.

What the counselor will see is how convincing X can be... .

[JustSaying]

Legal issues are decided. T will report to judge on 'success' of RT, and certainly D and I want to cooperate, but L says that custody is set (barring change in circumstance, of course).

Thank you both for that perspective that this might be another chance for x to step in her own mess. That helps my mood. I'm irritable at having to revisit all that again and 'prove' it to yet one more person. And I'm irritable that x starts off with the theme that CE is all wrong and she's done nothing wrong and no matter what he documented, it's all me causing the problems. It's not that she thinks that way that bothers me... .it's just that by acknowledging nothing he documents, the chances of improvement through RT is mighty small, and the chances of wasting more money and more of D's and my time is mighty large.

[Matt]

the chances of improvement through RT is mighty small, and the chances of wasting more money and more of D's and my time is mighty large.

It's good that you recognize this.

[ForeverDad]

This was an opportunity for everyone to accept what 'is' and move forward.  Clearly, X hadn't, she was still blame-shifting.  Perhaps that's a point that can be stressed at future sessions, can we move forward from here and not wallow in rehashing the past which can't be changed?

Some documents are considered confidential and not placed in the public record, probably a CE report fits that criteria where you are.  If so, then the T shouldn't expect the parents to be walking around dispensing copies of the CE report.  Me?  I won't say whether I have a copy of the first CE report.   I do know that a few months later on Trial Day the CE presented his report to the court, probably updated to add that son's mother had caused pediatrician to withdraw his services, then since we settled and avoided trial, it was thereafter sealed and I believe no one got to see it.

[JustSaying]

This was an opportunity for everyone to accept what 'is' and move forward.  Clearly, X hadn't, she was still blame-shifting.

That was the very point I made to T in an email literally the minute before reading your post. If his findings of fact aren't acknowledged by everyone, then where's the common ground on which to build anything useful for D?

Some documents are considered confidential and not placed in the public record, probably a CE report fits that criteria where you are.  If so, then the T shouldn't expect the parents to be walking around dispensing copies of the CE report.

This was the T that the CE specifically identified for the task, so she's part of this court-ordered process. It astonishes me that she was not provided a copy via formal channels. If I didn't send it at her request, I fear I'd have looked uncooperative. No good way to say no.

[Matt]

I think you are right to send her the report.  You could copy the court on that, to make it clear that you are acting openly and not trying to sneak information to her.

It is amazing how incompetent professionals can be.

Our CE said he would get the job done in six weeks.  We had ten weeks before the trial, so that sounded OK.  He took eight weeks to get the report to us, and it arrived when we were in court, for a settlement conference.  Later he apologized and said he had put it in the US mail (but not e-mail) to my attorney, who was out of town for the summer.  She said she had informed him she would be gone.  But in 2008, who relies on the US mail, when he could have just e-mailed it to all parties, for free, and it would have arrived weeks earlier?

In my industry, if somebody did something like that, we would have a very low opinion of his intelligence and common sense.  In the legal and behavioral health fields, unfortunately, it's not unusual at all.

[ForeverDad]

This always reminds me of the old movie, The Hole In The Wall Gang, an old comedy with lovable irrascible actors.  As I recall, the members had grown old and moved on and had a code word Brazzles! that was a signal to call for help to the other members of the old gang.

I tried that with my ex, didn't help, as your CE noted, everything coming from me was rejected.  Others didn't do much better.

An old thread so no response expected... .just making a correction about the movie {or sequel} The Over-the-Hill Gang {Rides Again} (Walter Brennan & Jack Elam / Fred Astaire) where the Texas Ranger call to arms is a secret word, "Brazzles!".  It's been many years since I watched these movies, I hope I haven't confused the Brazzles! phrase with The Apple Dumpling Gang {Rides Again} (Don Knotts & Tim Conway).

Film trivia:  The 1980s remake Once Upon a Texas Train morphed Jack Elam, a great character actor, from bad guy to one of the good guys.

A funny code word may not get through and deflect/deflate a rage but may be worth a try, you'd have to set it up beforehand during a calmer interaction.