Sexual Identity & Love

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

  I luv this little Tree! 

I am 9 days out and have been feeling pretty happy, most of the time anyway. 

I am allowing LC due to finances, but have only spoken to my H twice. The other few contacts were text.

Today, (his day off = free time) I received several texts from him:

"always loved you - didnt like me"

"difficult to enjoy another when you dont like yourself"

"29 years is a long time to be together... this is scary"

At the same time, my gut tells me that he has returned to hooking up with men via craigslist and swinger sites. I know him! He is addicted to sex and porn. He has said this disgusts him, but that never stops him.

It was a couple years ago that my H stated, completely out of the blue, as we were still in bed together one Sunday morning: "I need a man!" He even admitted to our daughter that he is bi-sexual (as is she).

I was so shocked and brokenhearted by this! How could I have not known about this all these years?

He spent the next few months seeking out men, and I was so messed up at the time, I didnt know what to think or do. Now that I know that sexual identity is sometimes an issue with BPDs, it makes more sense. But at the time, I knew this was something I could not live with. Then, he quit seeking out men as quickly as he had began.

A few months ago, as I began talking about separating, our daughter told him it might be good that he can feel free to explore his bi-sexuality, and it made him really mad. He told me, "Im not gay. I just want to have sex, but I dont want to touch anybody, and I dont want anybody touching me!"

This is all very confusing to me. I can only imagine how confusing it must be to him. Still, I am trying to find my own closure, and I feel that understanding what I can will help me somehow.

How can he go from talk of "Love", to hooking up with men and doing daily porn, back to "Ive always loved you... ." again?

I also cant stop thinking about what he said to me (in anger) after I told him of my leaving plans in October: "I dont want to be with you, I just dont want anyone else to have you!"

But yet he expects me to believe that he's "always loved me" 

I am really looking forward to getting a job am securing my own finances so I can go NC. I really dont want to hear anymore of his "love" crap!   

Is this love & sexual identity issue a BPD thing, or is my H just a first class man-pig?


     

[cyndiloowho]

  I luv this little Tree! 

I am 9 days out and have been feeling pretty happy, most of the time anyway. 

I am allowing LC due to finances, but have only spoken to my H twice. The other few contacts were text.

Today, (his day off = free time) I received several texts from him:

"always loved you - didnt like me"

"difficult to enjoy another when you dont like yourself"

"29 years is a long time to be together... this is scary"

At the same time, my gut tells me that he has returned to hooking up with men via craigslist and swinger sites. I know him! He is addicted to sex and porn. He has said this disgusts him, but that never stops him.

It was a couple years ago that my H stated, completely out of the blue, as we were still in bed together one Sunday morning: "I need a man!" He even admitted to our daughter that he is bi-sexual (as is she).

I was so shocked and brokenhearted by this! How could I have not known about this all these years?

He spent the next few months seeking out men, and I was so messed up at the time, I didnt know what to think or do. Now that I know that sexual identity is sometimes an issue with BPDs, it makes more sense. But at the time, I knew this was something I could not live with. Then, he quit seeking out men as quickly as he had began.

A few months ago, as I began talking about separating, our daughter told him it might be good that he can feel free to explore his bi-sexuality, and it made him really mad. He told me, "Im not gay. I just want to have sex, but I dont want to touch anybody, and I dont want anybody touching me!"

This is all very confusing to me. I can only imagine how confusing it must be to him. Still, I am trying to find my own closure, and I feel that understanding what I can will help me somehow.

How can he go from talk of "Love", to hooking up with men and doing daily porn, back to "Ive always loved you... ." again?

I also cant stop thinking about what he said to me (in anger) after I told him of my leaving plans in October: "I dont want to be with you, I just dont want anyone else to have you!"

But yet he expects me to believe that he's "always loved me" 

I am really looking forward to getting a job am securing my own finances so I can go NC. I really dont want to hear anymore of his "love" crap!   

Is this love & sexual identity issue a BPD thing, or is my H just a first class man-pig?


     

[mermaid8]

Cindyloo! Congrats on your move! 

I can imagine it has been mixed emotions. As far as the texts your H sent. They may be brief, but they say a lot. It is clear to read the self loathing that he has for himself. That is sad. It doesn't negate what his actions and behavior has done to you, but it is obvious how deeply troubled he is... .

I would have to say that a statement like that he made about "I want a man" would have been difficult to hear from your H. How could you be with someone yet feel like you know so little about this aspect of them. But, does it have more to do with just pushing the envelope and being sexual and craving what he hasn't yet experience or more about really being attracted to men? With his obvious sex addictions it seems like he has to keep adding something new and "taboo" to his "menu" so that he can continue to be turned on... .Someone who has an addiction like this keeps searching for the next thing. He becomes desensitized by what he has already experienced.

On the flip side, I think there is a strong sexual identity component to BPD as you say. I would not be surprised on bit if someone told me that my exBPDbf was exploring bi-sexuality. It's just something that I feel in my gut. I always felt that something was "off" and that even though he never admitted it, that he was turned on by men. His daughter is also gay and I do believe there could be a genetic component as well.

As far as the "sex" and "love". I think they are two completely different categories for a pwBPD. It certainly doesn't excuse the hurtful things that he has said to you in rage... .but I do believe that his deep self loathing makes it impossible to show any positive emotion towards you.

Maybe you leaving will be the thing that pushes him to seek the help that he desparately needs!

Keep moving forward Cindyloo!     

[Gowest]

Is this love & sexual identity issue a BPD thing, or is my H just a first class man-pig?

It can't be both?

It's not an area I know enough about to even really speculate. I know a fair bit about general sexuality and deviant sexuality, but not much about homo/bisexuality. My gut says this falls under "deviance" though. Not because men having sex with men is deviant, but because he isn't actually gay. Like mermaid8 says, pushing boundaries and chasing taboos is part of sex addiction. He's a straight guy running down his current ideal of dirty sex.

I always thought my ex was bi. I asked him about it several times, and he always insisted that he was not and was only interested in women. I never quite believed him, even though there was no evidence for it, it was just a feeling. It's that whole fluid identity thing. Ex roommate used to think she was transexual and/or a lesbian, but has rewritten that part of her history now.

[Newton]

I have noticed gender identity issues with a few pwBPD I encountered (all female).  From what they described it seemed to stem from a general lack of identity and very vague feelings of 'self'... .rather than sexual preferences.

It makes sense to me that if you struggle with defining WHO you are as an individual then your gender will appear confusing as a solid concept as well... .just my take on it.   

[Willy]

My ex was bi-sexual, or I even think more lesbian. I think in general she hated men, and sex with them was about control, power and a whole load of childhood issues. She described how she enjoyed having sex with women. As a straight guy I couldn't argue with that.

I am also convinced it has a lot to do with the lack of identity, but at times also for shock/attention value. In one go she could express her disgust for men looking at other women, while at the same time describe what she wants to do with the waitress. Welcome to BPD-world.

[htl67]

To him, it probably feels like he loves you, but a pwBPD's idea of what love actually means, and a non's idea of what love means, are worlds apart. When we think someone loves us, there are all kinds of behaviors we expect to happen, and NOT to happen, because of it. To a pwBPD, it's just a feeling. They don't know how to show it or make you feel it because it's like we speak 2 separate languages, and it means something completely different to them. My exBPDbf seemed always to be so shocked and offended that simply saying the words to me weren't enough. They don't seem to get the correlation between what they say and what they do and the fact that the 2 should match up. They want you to only pay attention to, and believe, the words and disregard the actions. Similar to the concept of men are from mars and women are from venus... .non's are from earth and pwBPD are from jupiter... .2 different creatures with 2 completely different languages and brain chemistry.

Hugs,

htl67

[Sofie]

My ex identified as a lesbian and had - to my knowledge - never been with men nor did she ever express an interest in men. As a child she had been the victim of severe sexual abuse from several men including her father, so I always sensed that she was afraid of men and always expected the worst from them.

However, I had the impression that sex and love was something completely separate for her and it would not surprise me to hear that she has been/is sexually involved with men, simply because it was my impression that sex for her was just a tool - something to be used for personal gain completely devoid of feelings. I think it's difficult for the rest of us to understand, but somehow I always felt that sex was something she didn't connect with love or attraction to another person at all. When it came to love - care, nurture, being held, etc. - all of that I think she completely identified with women only and the way she saw it, sex was just a price she had to pay.

[Grace58]

First class man-pig is my vote.

Look, people "coming out" as a bisexual have a different trajectory, if they know themselves and have an actual internal identity.  Even horndog men coming out don't necessarily lead with wicked raw sex because they are nervous about it, in their inexperience.  They might try to figure out how to keep their wife and make an agreement for Thursday night out or something.

They struggle, they are more conflicted about the emotional impact.  If they are bi or gay, hopefully they settle down after awhile, take responsibility for the damage to their heterosexual relationships, eventually find a partner, make a future of integrity inhabiting their new identity.  Jumping in full-force to down and dirty shameful sex (without touching no less) just seems off.  

In your BPD case, he is filled with self-hatred and his behavior seems more like unconsented SM, engaging in behaviors that are shameful to him, that reinforce his basic self-concept of badness/evil, that are humiliating and masochistic.  He isn't excited about getting a long held secret out in the open, he is acting out masochistic fantasies.  I feel sorry for his male partners as new hosts.  

He is a classic sex addict, searching for ever-greater levels of stimulation and shame as a way to not feel empty.  Porn has probably lost it's charms.  Next month it will be B and D, the following month he will get a tattoo on a very private part, after that it will be twin escorts or 50 year old female pros with no teeth.  Nothing will work to make him feel complete, whole or happy.  

The key thing is that it has nothing to do with you.  He has a severe mental illness.  It also has nothing to do with sexual identity.  He doesn't have one.  :)idn't before, doesn't now.  Get as far away from him as you can and live a wonderful life.  

[senseidave]

My wife lived for years as a gay woman.   Was with me, and is now looking for "women and men".   Nice.

Sexual identity issues are certainly a BPD trail.   

Wasn't you.

[cyndiloowho]

I can imagine it has been mixed emotions. As far as the texts your H sent. They may be brief, but they say a lot. It is clear to read the self loathing that he has for himself. That is sad.

I would have to say that a statement like that he made about "I want a man" would have been difficult to hear from your H. How could you be with someone yet feel like you know so little about this aspect of them. But, does it have more to do with just pushing the envelope and being sexual and craving what he hasn't yet experience or more about really being attracted to men? With his obvious sex addictions it seems like he has to keep adding something new and "taboo" to his "menu" so that he can continue to be turned on... .Someone who has an addiction like this keeps searching for the next thing. He becomes desensitized by what he has already experienced.

... .non's are from earth and pwBPD are from jupiter... .2 different creatures with 2 completely different languages and brain chemistry.

Boy, aint that the truth!

It can't be both?

My gut says this falls under "deviance" though. Not because men having sex with men is deviant, but because he isn't actually gay. Like mermaid8 says, pushing boundaries and chasing taboos is part of sex addiction. He's a straight guy running down his current ideal of dirty sex.

Thank you all for your thought provoking replies. It makes sense that my Hs self-loathing would send him down the hole of porn and sex addiction. Like crack, always chasing a greater high. God only knows what else it would take to 'get him off'.

There is a neuropsychiatrist, Dr Sarah Ullman, who has a website, thesexaddictedbrain.com, and she specializes in internet porn and sex addiction. Chemically, brain scans of porn addicts and cocaine addicts are similar. She also describes these kinds of addictions as "shame-based narcissistic's". Seems to fall into the BPD/NPD realm of shameful insanity.

All of this is a frkn fantastic reminder of why I left. I try to feel compassion for his sickness. But keep me the hell away from him from now on! I am sickened to consider how long I lived with this.   

Cheers everyone!  Ribbon

     

[maxen]

this is an old thread, i'm reading it because the topic of sexual affect is relevant to my situation. if anyone has anything to offer on that i'd be happy to read it. but i want to comment on this:

To a pwBPD, it's just a feeling. They don't know how to show it or make you feel it because it's like we speak 2 separate languages, and it means something completely different to them. My exBPDbf seemed always to be so shocked and offended that simply saying the words to me weren't enough. They don't seem to get the correlation between what they say and what they do and the fact that the 2 should match up.

very early on before we were married my w was apparently overwhelmed with emotion and would declare in the most maudlin terms how much she loved me. it left me uncomfortable because i felt that a burden was being placed on me but also because it didn't occur to her that she should show that equally by her actions, that in addition to the words she should naturally demonstrate a commitment to us, and to me, by having some discipline about her drinking and spending and organization (i knew nothing of BPD then). and to the end she never showed that love meant anything more to her than feeling it and saying it.

[Nicco]

My exGF is bi-sexual too... . she had some occasional sex with females,but she always told me that she definitely "prefer" men as partners.

I'm thinking now that i had several r/s with bi-sexual woman... . mmmmmm.

[Perfidy]

CLW... Tough spot to be in... . Several complicated lines of thought intersect in your post. I can understand your difficulty. How do you process something like this? Take the "one thing at a time" approach or just roll it up into one ball of wax. My self, I would probably look at it one thing at a time and go from there. Fidelity... . just assumed unless otherwise agreed. Did you agree to an open marriage? Sexuality. Did you and him discuss sexual preference or identity?

And of course there is always BPD. The pros generally treat personality disorder lastly if dual-dx is made. What about drugs?

You got out because he changed? He could no longer keep up his facade?

You're disgusted with him. Wow... You're out now and you have the chance to look at your reasons that you were in to begin with. I certainly wish you strength.

[Oliolioxenfree]

My exBPDbf exhibited the same behavior.  Claiming he was not gay but was he'll bent on experiencing a man.  At first he proposed we both try it together then that changed to just him and another man.   But he maintained he wasn't gay.  He said he had "bisexual tendencies"

I think with pwBPD this stems from the core identity issues.  Whether they identify as gay or straight or bisexual it doesn't matter.  What it does boil down to is that no matter who the victim is they serve one purpose and that is to feed their disorder.   I suspect that even BPDmen who identify as gay would entertain the idea of being with a female if their core identity was that distorted and lacking.   It doesn't matter which way they swing,  it's that they will because they don't know who they are.

[Changingman]

Zero sense of identity, no moral compass

What is sexuality if everything is an object?

The soul of a breadboard, a hole that goes right through them top to bottom.

Sexuality? they are just a hole.