He is asking me to "try again."

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

First and foremost, let me be clear:  I am ***NOT*** getting back together with my BPD-exbf.  I have told him that repeatedly, and will continue to tell him if I have to.  If I have to initiate NC, I will do that too.

But there has been a DRAMATIC shift in him since we've been apart for the last week, and I'm just trying to understand if what he is saying is genuine, or just typical BPD manipulation.

This same guy who used to be very defensive, wouldn't acknowledge or admit to anything, never saw anything from my point of view, and was hardly able to admit he had a problem and usually thought I was the problem... .

Is suddenly being the most open, honest and real that I think another human being could possibly be.  He fully admitted that he has BPD and that he lied to his T's because he was ashamed and scared.  He has stayed completely calm every time I've told him what I was upset about or angry at him for.  He asks questions until he understands where I am coming from and is taking full responsibility for how he treated me.  I'm honestly a little floored by the change.

Of course, he is also asking me to "try again."     His proposal is that because we're not living together anymore, a lot of issues will automatically go away.  Plus, I wouldn't have to deal with his ex-wife and kids anymore.  And I could see my friends whenever I want and get as much space as I need.  He'll do his DBT-Therapy and I'll deal with my Codependency.  And as we get healthy, our relationship will improve.

I asked him "Why NOW are you realizing all of this?"  He said the week alone has given him some time to reflect.

***I AM NOT ENTERTAINING THIS IDEA!***

But I am really baffled by the 180 degree sudden turn-around, and I'm wondering:

-- Is this is just a very typical attempt at Recycling me, that I really just need to view as a manipulation and shut down ASAP?

-- Or rather, how I'm taking it, that it's a shame it took permanently destroying our relationship, for him to really realize the depth of his problems and take responsibility for his actions?


PS -- Before anyone says "Go focus on yourself and stop worrying about him" -- I'M ON IT.   Been to the T twice this week.  Go again on Monday.  Just bought "Codependent No More" and I've been filling my time with catching up with my friends and family.  

[G.J.]

First and foremost, let me be clear:  I am ***NOT*** getting back together with my BPD-exbf.  I have told him that repeatedly, and will continue to tell him if I have to.  If I have to initiate NC, I will do that too.

But there has been a DRAMATIC shift in him since we've been apart for the last week, and I'm just trying to understand if what he is saying is genuine, or just typical BPD manipulation.

This same guy who used to be very defensive, wouldn't acknowledge or admit to anything, never saw anything from my point of view, and was hardly able to admit he had a problem and usually thought I was the problem... .

Is suddenly being the most open, honest and real that I think another human being could possibly be.  He fully admitted that he has BPD and that he lied to his T's because he was ashamed and scared.  He has stayed completely calm every time I've told him what I was upset about or angry at him for.  He asks questions until he understands where I am coming from and is taking full responsibility for how he treated me.  I'm honestly a little floored by the change.

Of course, he is also asking me to "try again."     His proposal is that because we're not living together anymore, a lot of issues will automatically go away.  Plus, I wouldn't have to deal with his ex-wife and kids anymore.  And I could see my friends whenever I want and get as much space as I need.  He'll do his DBT-Therapy and I'll deal with my Codependency.  And as we get healthy, our relationship will improve.

I asked him "Why NOW are you realizing all of this?"  He said the week alone has given him some time to reflect.

***I AM NOT ENTERTAINING THIS IDEA!***

But I am really baffled by the 180 degree sudden turn-around, and I'm wondering:

-- Is this is just a very typical attempt at Recycling me, that I really just need to view as a manipulation and shut down ASAP?

-- Or rather, how I'm taking it, that it's a shame it took permanently destroying our relationship, for him to really realize the depth of his problems and take responsibility for his actions?


PS -- Before anyone says "Go focus on yourself and stop worrying about him" -- I'M ON IT.   Been to the T twice this week.  Go again on Monday.  Just bought "Codependent No More" and I've been filling my time with catching up with my friends and family.  

[SunflowerFields]

-- Is this is just a very typical attempt at Recycling me, that I really just need to view as a manipulation and shut down ASAP?

Yes. BPDs typically know exactly what to say, how to behave, how to alter behavior, how to apologize, and appear to "get" it, when attempting recycling. Once you are back in, and they are comfortable you are, the old behaviors resurface. They have to, as in reality they've not gone away - just been very well hidden. While he is behaving, he is stuffing all his uncomfortable feelings. Once you are back in, he can release them. He has to. Think pressure cooker.

-- Or rather, how I'm taking it, that it's a shame it took permanently destroying our relationship, for him to really realize the depth of his problems and take responsibility for his actions?

No. BPD does not go away like that. BPD requires DBT or Schema therapy for years to treat. If you are still thinking all this changes can transform him immediately because of "shame", you are still not familiar with what BPD actually is. I would urge you to read the articles in the Articles section, BPD behaviors under "tools" section, and A.J. Mahari's writings.

[hijodeganas]

I believe it's typical. The last time I broke up with my ex she did the same thing. She also wanted to try again. I actually agreed and she changed her mind just a few days later.

[G.J.]

Thanks for your responses. 

No. BPD does not go away like that. BPD requires DBT or Schema therapy for years to treat. If you are still thinking all this changes can transform him immediately because of "shame"

No no no!  I told him directly that just because he's having all these revelations, NOTHING has changed.  He still has BPD and that won't change for another 3 years IF he completes DBT Therapy.  I told him that until he gets healthy (which won't be ANY time soon), we have ZERO chance of having a healthy relationship and I will NOT continue an unhealthy relationship.  I told him that even though he "gets it" now, when it comes to actually practically applying the knowledge, the BPD will take over, and we'll be right back where we started.

So **I** get all that.  No worries there.

I'm just surprised at all the revelations and change in attitude.  In the past, he's always claimed that I'm off-base for one reason or another.  I just truly didn't think he "got it" at all.  Just surprised that now all of a sudden he does.  Maybe he "got it" all along... .  Who knows.

I just wanted to know if any of this is genuine or if it's all a bunch of BS in a selfish attempt to reel me back in.  Doesn't REALLY matter.  I'm not going back.  Just not sure what the spirit is behind what's being said.

[G.J.]

She also wanted to try again. I actually agreed and she changed her mind just a few days later.

WOW.  That's unusually cruel.  BPD mind games.  Gotta love em.   

[hijodeganas]

She also wanted to try again. I actually agreed and she changed her mind just a few days later.

WOW.  That's unusually cruel.  BPD mind games.  Gotta love em.   

It was pretty cruel. The way she did it, especially.

I have to admit, the break up itself wasn't so bad. I was upset, sad and disappointed, but not much more than with any other break up I'd had with other women in the past. In a sense I was relieved that it was finally done. But when she sent me a letter telling me I was right about her and it was all her fault and she felt guilty I got my hopes up. Her nonchalantly changing her mind a few days later is what got me.

[2010]

he lied to his T's because he was ashamed and scared.

Would it stand to reason that a person with core identity issues would become so defensive that they would pathologically lie?

If being "ashamed and scared" caused him to lie to his therapist- a person that was there to help him, not hurt him- then would it be reasonable to say that he will lie to you too?

DBT is not a 3 year therapy for pathological lying. Your lesson here is to give up malignant hope. Not that he learns how to stop being ashamed enough to tell the truth, but to stop allowing him access to hearing (and believing) his lies. What has made you overlook the lies in the past and justify them? Why do you think it has anything to do with you when he has told you he lies to his therapist? He is not a man of his word. This goes deeper than you can fix.

[Suzn]

Of course, he is also asking me to "try again."   

Well of course he is. This is probably why he left all his stuff... .he was hoping he could change your mind like he always does. Why would he put out the effort to move his stuff if he knew he'd be back home soon... .ok he cleaned the house but left it in a state of creepiness... .the creepiness that was validated by law enforcement and a locksmith.

-- Is this is just a very typical attempt at Recycling me, that I really just need to view as a manipulation and shut down ASAP?

YES

-- Or rather, how I'm taking it, that it's a shame it took permanently destroying our relationship, for him to really realize the depth of his problems and take responsibility for his actions?

As if this is even possible at this point.

[G.J.]

2010 -- you're obviously seeing something here that I'm not.  Keep in mind, I'm only a few days out of this mess, so I'm WAY behind the curve here.  Just trying to sort some stuff out and make sense of it all.

I KNOW I can't fix him.  I'm just stunned by some of the stuff he's been saying and I'm just trying to make sense of it.  It does NOT -- and WILL NOT -- change my stance on not being with him (even if that's why he's saying it).  I just have a need to understand things, and I wanted to know if this is just typical recycling or if it's someone who really has finally accepted he has a problem.


It's possible my use of the word "lying" is causing some confusion.  (It's also possible I just don't get it quite yet.  hahaha)  He didn't say he "lied" specifically.  We had a long conversation in which he told me that he had been downplaying stuff that had been happening, and omitting some of the more serious things.  Leading her to believe things weren't as bad as they really were.  I just used the shorthand of "lying" to not have to explain the whole conversation (I'm already too long-winded).

He said he felt like she was judging him, and I also felt judged by her the few times I went with him.  (I've been thru therapy myself and had never previously felt that way.)

With insecurity, low self worth and shame being at the core of BPD -- most BPD's don't have a problem being totally open and honest in therapy?  Especially when they don't want to think anything is wrong with them and haven't fully accepted their diagnosis yet?  I thought that's why DBT Therapy was such a specialty.  (Because they paint their T's black, they take a long time to trust them, etc etc.)

I dunno... .  I'm confused... .   ;p

[G.J.]

Why would he put out the effort to move his stuff if he knew he'd be back home soon... .

Oh, no -- he moved out everything that was his personally -- and that was a TON of stuff.  He also threw some of it away (comingled with regular trash, so he had no intentions of getting it again).  The only stuff he left behind was anything connected to me.  The rest, he took completely.  He was actually meticulous and went through every drawer, every box, every closet.  It had to have taken him a long time.  It's pretty clear he knew he wasn't coming back.  My house looks exactly the way it did the day before I met him.  (Except the piles of things connected to me.)

-- Or rather, how I'm taking it, that it's a shame it took permanently destroying our relationship, for him to really realize the depth of his problems and take responsibility for his actions?

As if this is even possible at this point.

I don't understand... .  Is it not possible for someone to look back and see the error of their ways?  Heck, it was only 2 days ago that I realized I'm Codependent and have started looking at my own behavior in a new light.  I thought I was "helping" him.  I realize now, I was "controlling" him.  It's not possible for him to take a step back and have his own revelations?

I'll say it again -- it makes ZERO difference moving forward.  I just like to UNDERSTAND things.

[hijodeganas]

I don't understand... .  Is it not possible for someone to look back and see the error of their ways?  Heck, it was only 2 days ago that I realized I'm Codependent and have started looking at my own behavior in a new light.  I thought I was "helping" him.  I realize now, I was "controlling" him.  It's not possible for him to take a step back and have his own revelations?

I'll say it again -- it makes ZERO difference moving forward.  I just like to UNDERSTAND things.

I think it's entirely possible for pwBPD to have revelations. In fact, I think they often do. But it ends there; without the proper tools gained from therapy, those revelations do not turn into actions, they do not affect behavior.

Revelations in and of themselves are not enough. My ex was an extremely insightful woman. But in the two years I knew her I saw no sign of any lasting change. Just cycles.

[Suzn]

I don't understand... .  Is it not possible for someone to look back and see the error of their ways? .

Absolutely, someone who doesnt use distorted thinking can. Codependence is learned behaviors that can be unlearned. BPD is a mental illness listed in the DSM. It takes most likely years of treatment to be successful. And this is by a person who accepts their illness and works diligently to recover. Does all this talk of his T being inappropriate sound like its coming from an individual who is adamant about his recovery?  ?    I will tell you I heard more "wild" stories from my exBPDgf trying to explain away her behavior than Ive heard with everyone combined in my entire life. If it sounds like a wild tale its probably just that.

Hes trying to get you back GJ, Im glad to hear you're not falling for it.

[G.J.]

Does all this talk of his T being inappropriate sound like its coming from an individual who is adamant about his recovery?

Clearly not.     But he isn't seeing this Psychologist anymore.  He is seeing a DBT Therapist now.

The only reason it came up, was that we were having a conversation about everything that had gone on in our relationship, including his therapy.  He was sharing his revelations with me.  One of them is that his son is showing signs of BPD (I have thought that his son has similar issues to him for awhile, but never said anything).  I've been adamant that both his kids need therapy (their mom is easily as disordered as he is) and he was telling me that he finally sees what I was seeing and agrees.

So he mentioned taking both kids to the original Psychologist, just because she is so nice and they might be comfortable with her.  As an aside to this conversation, he mentioned this aspect of what had gone on between he and her when he WAS seeing her -- and I said in that case, he ought to find them someone else.  He agreed.

He no doubt wasn't taking his therapy serious in the past.  I don't know if it's real or not, but this last week he found to be pretty traumatic, and it sounds like he's hit rock bottom and is finally being honest with himself.  ONE of the reasons I ended things, was because I picked up on the fact that he had been "phoning it in" in therapy and I refused to keep wasting my time trying to help someone that wouldn't help himself.  (But there were a lot MORE reasons, so even if this gets fixed, it still doesn't matter.)

Hes trying to get you back GJ, Im glad to hear you're not falling for it.

I know he's trying to get me back.  And I'm NOT falling for it.  I just don't know if everything he is saying is utter garbage, SOLELY because he's trying to get me back?  Or if he's actually being genuine... .  AND trying to get me back.

Someone recently told me that breaking up is typically a process, not an event.  And it's ok for it not to be a "get out and never speak to me again" all in 5 minutes -- and instead to have a period of sorting through what happened and getting closure.

I know that's a lot trickier with someone with a PD, and I know I'll have to shut down communication with him eventually.  I'm trying to keep a healthy distance, and also tell people what's going on so I don't get sucked into the FOG.  I'm also just trying to get a little closure while I can. 

[Aviator]

I'll say it again -- it makes ZERO difference moving forward.  I just like to UNDERSTAND things.

You like to analyze things and figure out how they work.  But remember that it's difficult to apply logic to illogical people and situations.  There may be no way anybody but your ex will ever understand exactly what he's thinking.  My advice is to chalk it up to the tragic ways of BPD.  Some things are beyond human understanding.

But you are an empathetic person, so I'm imagining it's hard to do.

You're still in my prayers!

[eeyore]

I KNOW I can't fix him.  I'm just stunned by some of the stuff he's been saying and I'm just trying to make sense of it.  It does NOT -- and WILL NOT -- change my stance on not being with him (even if that's why he's saying it).  I just have a need to understand things, and

I wanted to know if this is just typical recycling or if it's someone who really has finally accepted he has a problem.

typical recycling.  if he was serious he would give you the opportunity to be free and healthy.  If after he got help and got better he wanted to try he would be able to demonstrate evidence of his change via his past performance.  Currently past performance says that he'll say anything to try to manipulate you to his way of thinking. 

[G.J.]

typical recycling.  if he was serious he would give you the opportunity to be free and healthy.  If after he got help and got better he wanted to try he would be able to demonstrate evidence of his change via his past performance.  Currently past performance says that he'll say anything to try to manipulate you to his way of thinking. 

This makes perfect sense.  Great point.

At first, he said I should find someone else because he is unhealthy.  Later on, he asked if I would consider staying with him, but at a much farther distance.  Just see each other once a week or so (he said whatever I was comfortable with) and as we both got healthier, we would slowly get closer again.  (He acknowledged that may take many many months or even longer.)

He says he just doesn't want to lose me completely.  He said he would take care of all of his stuff on his own (therapy, kids, finances, life, etc) and knows he's not healthy enough to be an integral part of my life right now.  I think he's just terrified that his therapy is going to take 3 years, and that I'm going to move on before then, and he'll lose me forever.

I think I've just become so resentful and sick of the whole thing, it's just not something I'm interested in.  Besides, I don't believe he'd be able to maintain what he's proposing, even if he does mean what he says.

[eeyore]

go read 1bravegirl's posts.  And I believe they honestly don't have the ability to see how they vacillate from one extreme to another.  Whatever they feel at the time is all they know.  And to get whatever the payoff is.  They will say anything and think they are being honest with themselves. 

[Suzn]

So he mentioned taking both kids to the original Psychologist, just because she is so nice and they might be comfortable with her.  As an aside to this conversation, he mentioned this aspect of what had gone on between he and her when he WAS seeing her -- and I said in that case, he ought to find them someone else.  He agreed.

wait a minute... lets look at this. First of all... he said he met with this woman outside of her office. I doubt it but hey there are unethical therapists out there. Even if its an outright lie... doesnt matter. Point is he told you he did this. He is pretty much telling you hey I have options. OR he got too close to another woman. Neither here nor there now.   Then he suggests taking his kids to see her? He knows this woman was unethical... if it happened. Then discussed taking his kids to her with you and 'since she was so nice?" Are you kidding me? He's pulling you in to make decisions about his children. And you did it. You said in that case, he ought to find someone else... .and he agreed... .and of course he agreed. Just sayin... .he crossed a line here, a couple actually... .

[G.J.]

So he mentioned taking both kids to the original Psychologist, just because she is so nice and they might be comfortable with her.  As an aside to this conversation, he mentioned this aspect of what had gone on between he and her when he WAS seeing her -- and I said in that case, he ought to find them someone else.  He agreed.

wait a minute... lets look at this. First of all... he said he met with this woman outside of her office. I doubt it but hey there are unethical therapists out there. Even if its an outright lie... doesnt matter. Point is he told you he did this. He is pretty much telling you hey I have options. OR he got too close to another woman. Neither here nor there now.   Then he suggests taking his kids to see her? He knows this woman was unethical... if it happened. Then discussed taking his kids to her with you and 'since she was so nice?" Are you kidding me? He's pulling you in to make decisions about his children. And you did it. You said in that case, he ought to find someone else... .and he agreed... .and of course he agreed. Just sayin... .he crossed a line here, a couple actually... .

suzn -- Maybe I should clarify... .  Sorry, I am so long-winded, I'm finding that I'm not being specific enough when I try to shorten what I'm saying, and then I think I'm being misunderstood.  I'm obviously not very good at abbreviating what I'm trying to say! 

The story goes:  He met her in her office.  She said she really needed a cup of coffee and asked if he was thirsty.  He doesn't drink coffee, but agreed to go with her.  So they walked across the street and got coffee and did there session enroute.  He indicated there were a few instances similar to this.

To me, this seemed inappropriate, based on my previous experiences with therapy.  At the time, he didn't know there was anything wrong with it.  But he was saying in retrospect, that not enough "work" was being done while he was in sessions with her, and this was an example of that.  I was the one who said it was not only unproductive, that it was also unethical (in my opinion) and that he should find someone else.  Once I explained that, he then agreed.

I don't think he was saying he has options.  I called him out on that and he said he didn't find her attractive.  AND she's married with kids.  Maybe he was trying to imply that he had options.  I think he was just giving me examples of why he didn't feel comfortable opening up to her as much as he should have been, and why more work hadn't been accomplished in 9 months.

The fact that he said he sometimes felt like she was seducing him, just seemed really strange to me.  He definitely has implied that he has options (with other women) but he quickly added that he doesn't want any of them, and would do whatever it took to eventually be with me.

Oh, heck.  I don't know.  It's all just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo I'm having a hard time processing!

[Suzn]

  Yea the having options thing was something my exBPDgf did all the time. It was oh so subtle... if I pointed it out I was all wrong about it. Here's the thing with that... .we ALL have options. There IS someone else out there... probably many someone elses. WHY would someone say this to someone? WHY play on someones insecurites? Its cruel. There is no need to do this... its not something healthy, caring people do. But they say things like this to manipulate... to make you think... Just because someone has BPD doesnt mean they are stupid. (not that you think he's stupid) They are actually MASTER manipulators.

  Him being uncomfortable is an excuse, Id bet my paycheck on it. Seeee this is why I havent worked hard on my recovery. (he is desperate... you kicked him out)  He (the victim) needs you ( the rescuer) to save him from his inappropriate T (the prosecutor). This is triangulation (read definition). He knows this will affect you. It will move you. (your addiction/trigger) 

  My exBPDgf played this exact same senerio with me, almost. She said the T she was seeing at the time kept changing her meds. (So this explained her behavior, I fell for it, called the T and chewed her butt and informed her of the self medicating and the excessive drinking. I sounded like the sick one here and I was. Do you think her T believed me? ) Its different but its the same. Her T was still the prosecutor. 

  I would say him talking about his children is about keeping you involved. Im sure you care about his children and he knows that. He needs more than just him to keep you talking/involved so that eventually... you two will be back together. Or at least thats what he's counting on. My exBPDgf used the children to keep me involved for years. My involvement with the children was the hardest part for me to let go of.

They are so believable... .so sincere. Removing yourself from the triangle is the hard part. NC is the only way to do that ... when you are ready. 


   

[bengaltropicat]

If you go NC, they will not likely try to recycle. Why? because the person who goes NC, shows they do not care anymore. The person who cares the least has the most power. BPD's want the power.   If they cannot get the power, they are not interested.  Simple as that. 

[MaybeSo]

I did this dance for five years with my ex.

Yes it's a recycle attempt. Yes it's sincere in the sense that a five year old knows he really wants the cookie in the cookie jar and will "perform" in a most sincere manner for the adult so that they might get the cookie. Once they get the cookie the performance is over. Doesn't mean he wasn't sincere in the moment, a kid wants what it wants, the need is sincere. The performance is a performance. Embracing therapy and this diagnosis and consulting with you about the kids, this is the performance he knows has the best chance of getting him the cookie ... .the teddy bear, your involvement. Yes it's a recycle attempt, and not the least bit surprising and to be expected (frantic attempts to avoid abandonment). Done this many times with my ex, went back many times based on many insightful, heartfelt epiphanies. Similar issues with female thetapists, too, not really working in therapy, calling it in, trying to impress the pretty clinician, not being honest with her. For five yesrs I would go back with renewed hope, but ... .He just grew to resent me more and more, later, the heartfelt epiphanies that convinced me to go back were recanted with much bitterness (I only said xyz because I knew that's what you wanted to hear). To me, it's like an alcoholic. They will say anything to get their drug. It's not personal, it's a disorder.

[hijodeganas]

I think that's a great analogy, Maybeso. It makes perfect sense.

Initially I had said that my ex's epiphany followed by her dumping me just days later was cruel. In retrospect, it may have been the kindest thing she ever did for me: she force-ejected me out of the cycle.

[truly amazed]

Hi,

Your BPD ... .my BPD ... .has the exact handbook and combination to my heart. Well at least they used to and could play me like a violin when they wanted. If they did something shocking ... .it was turned so I was the guilty party despite me being innocent ... .or it was blamed on me and I accepted it despite not being at fault.

Your ex has your handbook and is saying everything so so soothing ... .you really want to beleive them ... .but sadly without treatment and I mean YEARS they will not and CAN not change. It is not possible no matter what they are saying ... .they have not changed.

We all would love to think our ex partners have ... .but these attempts at getting back together never have anything to do with US really. Their new RS is not going to plan ? A backup is needed ? They need futher emotional punching bags ? Whatever ... .

Dig below the contact itself and sadly you find its not about you or your needs or being a couple but 100% about them. Their needs their fears ... .them ... .

Good luck

[G.J.]

WOW. JUST WOW.

I think I finally understand why so many people on this board are so cynical and jaded (no offense).  I kept thinking, "Gosh, these pwBPD are just people too... ."  Ahhhhh... .  No they're not.  They're SEVERELY DISORDERED people.  And they needed to be treated like a live grenade.

Last night, my ex asked me to meet him in a public place, so we could talk about his proposal of "getting back together from a distance" and discuss some of his new revelations about his history and how it connects to the present.

I have never entertained the idea of getting back together with him, and have always maintained that in our communication.  But of course, the fact that I'm willing to even talk to him, says to him otherwise.  I agreed to go, because I wanted to hear more about his past (for my own sense of closure and understanding), and I wanted to reinforce to him that he not only has BPD, but that I believe his first T was right, and he is ALSO Bipolar II (which he is currently not being treated for).  I was having a hard time figuring out how to go NC, and instead of just dropping off the planet suddenly, I thought I could move the communication in that direction that night.

He told me all kinds of stuff I had never known about, which further convinced me he was Bipolar II as well.  He had tried to commit suicide several years ago, and his mother and wife (at the time) had pulled the loaded revolver away from him.  He has had really dramatic issues his entire life, and he asked me to help him take all of this information to his Psychiatrist and help him get the help he needs, even if I walked away after that.

At one point, I had asked him whether or not he had heard from his ex-wife.  He said no.  He said that she asked his dad (who he is living with now) out to dinner with her and their kids, but that he didn't go and had had no communication with her all week.  Awhile later, he pulled out his phone, and I happened to see MANY calls between he and his ex-wife over the last week.  Like over 5 a day, every day.

Long story short, I finally wrangled out of him:  Just hours after I kicked him out and left my house last week, he called her.  She offered to come over and help him pack, and to have him move his things back into her house.  He had been leading her on all week, implying that he still loves her and wants to get back together with her.  This went so far that she told their kids that daddy was coming home.  They all went out to eat as a family the night before.  He said he only did it because he was so terrified of being alone, and he wanted to make sure he had a back-up plan, because I was saying I wouldn't get back together with him, and he had no one else.

He was there last night with me, trying to convince me to stay with him -- and had just turned down an invitation from his ex-wife to join her and their kids for a movie.  He lied to her about where he was.  And he lied to me about what's been going on over the last week.

The whole thing turned drama and he called her asking her to tell me that he hadn't said specifically that he was coming back and to reassure me that they weren't reuniting.  She refused, and texted me saying we needed to talk.  (I didn't even know she had my number.  We've never spoken.)  I read him the riot act and told him exactly what I thought of his behavior.  When I drove away, he was in his car on the phone with his ex-wife, begging her to forgive him and take him back.

He was playing both of us -- AND HIS KIDS -- just to get his needs met.  With the FULL knowledge of how much pain and destruction he's already caused in all of our lives.

Just call me C.J.C.   Cynical, Jaded and Codependent... .  NO MORE.   

[MaybeSo]

Yes, it's a disorder and it's serious. It looks like it's just a guy with serious commitment issues but it's so much more than that. Needing a back up, fearing being alone, drives so much of the dysfunction. I have been through exactly the same kind of situations and for two years I took it so personally, I was so hurt and confused. Now, five years later, it's what I have come to expect from my ex. He can't be alone for any length of time, he must have women entangled with him, it's a life preserver. He will lie and scramble and say anything to get what he needs. He can't think about how that feels to the women... .does the alcoholic feel badly about draining the vodka bottle dry? Do they feel bad about hiding extra bottles so that they never go without? No, it's what they have to do to survive. I refuse to be another person's drug of choice any longer. I have had to face my own addiction , codependence, whether or not he ever really deals with his is none of my business, though I pray for him. it's a disorder and it's real. in some ways I wish it shocked me more like it

used to, but I know it too well. I dont actually feel cynical or jaded, i just feel i have an understanding and emotional acceptance of what a cluster b personality disorder is. My ex by the way was dx with cyclothymia which is similar to bp ii. but he is clearly NPD/BPD. Very tuff stuff. I'm so sorry.

[G.J.]

Even up until 3:45pm today he was texting me asking me to give him another chance. This was right before he went over to her house (in fact, I think he was in front of her house about to walk in.) She's now texting me saying he's begging her to take him back.

This is so sick. If I didn't just now have to rush to the Animal Hospital with my cat (I did NOT need this today -- waiting to hear from the triage team) I would almost think his behavior is funny.

This SOO has NOTHING to do with me. I guess that's the NPD portion. He's clearly that too. Unbelievable.

[gWocky00]

A pwBPD never has a true come to Jesus moment where they see the light and start living thier life right.  We all have been there and truly thought they finally had that epiphany we have waited and prayed for so long.  But it just aint gonna happen.  They know the words to speak and the actions to perform, cause they know what works.   They can only keep the performance going for so long though before its just too much pressure.  The mask comes off and you feel duped, and then even more mad at yourself than you are at them.  Like, how could you, how could I.  Probably why my face book quote is  "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me 5 times and you are my exwife. "  18 years married and 4 years out,, and when she calls every couple of months if I dont answer she escalates, eventually asking the kids whats wrong with me till she finally shows up at the door.  I used to let her cry and purge herself going on about how bad the new guy is, again feeling that pang of an epiphany, but then another couple months would go by with no contact, and she would start again trying to see if I was still going to be a rescuer.   I got tired of being her T, and or her backup plan and now just close the door and say I dont have the time.  They just dont get it but I think I finally do.

[eeyore]

so since she text messaged you saying you should talk what have you done with that?

[Easydoesitnow]

G.J. I' m not sure what country you are in but in Australia the Medicare codes for psychology have an additional code for ' walk and talk' therapy.  It has been shown that walking and talking combined can create a shift in thinking.  I have known 2 psychologists to have used the walk and talk code when we have gone to.get a coffee.