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Author Topic: just need to vent  (Read 486 times)
haywood911
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« on: March 08, 2012, 09:37:36 AM »

Well the other day I may have sabotaged myself. The STBx uBPDw needed me to meet her and get a document noterized. So I went and took her mail did what I had to do. She starts with what put a bug up your butt. So I replyed Nothing I am not sure what you are talking about what did I say. She said it was not what you said but how you said it and the look on your face. Then she said I will have all my stuff out of the house by the end of the month. So I said I do not remember putting a time limit on it but that is fine by me. She said you keep asking when I am going to get my stuff out whenever we talk. I said that is just because you keep saying you are coming over and you never do, Like this weekend when you said you wanted me there so I end up waiting for you and you never show. Then I call and you say I am waiting for the cable guy and I will be over after  he shows up. Then I never hear from you and you never show. So please be respectful of my time and let me know what is going on.   She goes off you do not have to be there. Me: The only reason I was going to be was because you asked me to be there. She said that is because I do not want you to say I am taking your things. Me: Ok so just let me know when you will be there so I can adjust my schedule. Later that night she called with an attuitude and  went off saying I had wasted 8 years of her life. That set me off and I ran down how i had been her champion the last eight years and helped her through RN, BSN and now DNP school rewriting her papers so they looked professional and not like a third grader wrote them and how when she failed out of RN school and was ready to quit I had encouraged her to go back and then I just kept going running down her impulsiveness and her constatnt devaluing anything I did and on and on  I let it all out. She finally hung up on me and I am hoping I can still get out with the 15 K buyout she had offered up but I am not to confident .
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beyondbelief
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2012, 09:48:57 AM »

Yeah been there done that.  Here is what I learned works best for me.

She starts with what put a bug up your butt. So I replyed Nothing I am not sure what you are talking about what did I say. She said it was not what you said but how you said it and the look on your face.

I'm sorry, my mind is in another place.


Excerpt
Then she said I will have all my stuff out of the house by the end of the month.

Thank you.


Excerpt
Later that night she called with an attuitude and  went off saying I had wasted 8 years of her life.

Caller ID and VM are pretty handy tools.

Excerpt
She finally hung up on me and I am hoping I can still get out with the 15 K buyout she had offered up but I am not to confident .

Nothing is final until it is final.  Most of the time things don't go smoothly for our members.  Your mileage may vary.
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haywood911
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2012, 02:32:49 PM »

i have to stop and remeber not to get sucked in. It is hard not to in the heat of battle. Thanks for the suggestions I will try to remember to think before I react.   
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2010
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2012, 03:21:30 PM »

Excerpt
i had been her champion the last eight years and helped her through RN, BSN and now DNP school rewriting her papers so they looked professional and not like a third grader wrote them

Borderlines often choose people that have very strong opinions about how they should live. This triggers the punitive parent that lives intrapsychically and internally commands them to do things. Since much of the disorder is about fear, there is a tendency to self-defeat, which only creates more need for the partner to control. Failure is not an option to the partner, because this is a mature, responsible thought. Because of this, the Borderline often acts in ways to escape the perceived taskmaster (perception of bondage) while maintaining their fragile sense of self and not splitting.

Since this is an insecure attachment disorder, they cannot feel good about themselves when their self object feels bad. When the self object feels badly, it withdraws, causing the Borderline to cling and act out. When this immature behavior no longer provides relief, the Borderline must split the self object (that's you) off of them to protect the fragile self. That fragile self is very scared and looks for rescuers (new attachments) to cling to *or* they enter into fields of work that allow them to rescue others.  Idea  Eventually the former attachment gets to an event horizon, and then falls off, to a point of no return. I know this is sad, but eventually this will occur and you will need to grieve.

The memory of the attachment lives on in the Borderline's mind as a memory of you being the primary caregiver, their parent. This is a disorder. You may have thought of yourself as a champion of her, but that's not how she sees it at the moment. There may come a time when she needs to reward herself as a valued objectification to your championing (actions) but this is merely a fleeting thought and cannot be sustained. There is no object constancy.

Borderline is very much an identity disorder- it is a feeling of defectiveness, unworthiness and fear of abandonment. It is also a fear of engulfment which causes hatred of the attachment. This hatred requires an acting out which can be seen in passive aggression and avoidance while still maintaining the need for the attachment (dependency behaviors.) Passive aggression and avoidance are what happens when she refuses to show during the agreed upon meeting.

You'll need to expect this behavior from now on since you represent a bad person to her. It doesn't matter what you did in the past to champion her- she thinks of it as controlling. She is already reading your face and projecting anger on it. You'll need to ignore these comments if you want to get out of crazy town. The only way that you can become good again is if you relax and let go of the outcome for her. She's on her own. No more roundabout talks about who is right and who is wrong because this appears like scolding behaviors that a parent would do to a child. This is a disorder, you must accept it. Allow the Borderline to think of you badly. The only way out of this relationship is to be a victim. You will recover.

How did you get here?

Since the bond is fusional, there is a payoff to you that she succeeds- but not at her own doing.  Idea This is no different from the initial primary caregiver she has now in her psyche and who scapegoats her for the failure to "become." I suppose the question for you would be why you felt that the papers were "not professional and looked like a third grader wrote them." If this was her best work- and she was happy with the results- that's all that mattered. If you felt that this was unacceptable for a mature woman to turn in this level of work, then this is a parentified/child relationship that disallows the Borderline to actually make their own mistakes.  This also may be an artifact from your own childhood concerning success. It also feeds right into the Borderline's idea of self defeat, that they cannot do it alone and must have others to do it for them. This is due to the arrested development at the free will stage and that requires other people to blame for their self defeat.

When Borderlines fail, it's important to allow them to fail and not have it reflective of you. You also need to stop cajoling the failure and expect it to happen instead. Just expect the behavior but put concrete boundaries in place. When she says that the items will be out by the end of the month- you *must* make a time and date and have her agree. If you have to do that by putting it in writing- sending it registered mail -then do that. If she breaks that date- the items will be given to goodwill.  

If you're going to be a dreaded taskmaster anyway, why not do it well?    Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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AussieMatt

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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2012, 05:01:21 PM »

I have been in the exact same situation time and time again with my ex BPDgf. i am 28 and she 22 and i found myself walking her through daily events just to help her cope, and when she did things that affected her negatively and she came to me upset, i would give her advice as to how she should try it next time. And when it happened again and again with the same outsome because she had just done it her way and not mine i would get upset and tell her that she can't do it that way. ultimately she would then think that i am always putting her down and cruching her confidence etc. I would always give her advice becasue she would always come to me with problems in her everyday life that everyone else seems to deal with perfectly well. She was just so dramatic. What you have written 2010 is so incredibly true and it's scary. I'm only new here and it's all just so scary. I have only finally broken up 6 days ago after a 19 months relationship and i am trying the NC approach. It is so hard because i am used to the consuming neediness and i still care a great deal even though she cheatewd on me during one of our "off times". I just need to let it go and i am waiting for an order from the police to go to court so that i can finally be free from the abuse. I know it will be incredibly hard for a long time and i am suffering badly atm. I just hope that it all ends. 2010 thank you for the information. It really is reassuring that there are people out ther who have a grasp on the whole thing.
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dah1029
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2012, 06:27:54 PM »

Remember, those degrees are marital property.  Review it all with your attorney before you agree to anything with her.
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haywood911
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2012, 07:51:54 AM »

2010 thanks for the information, I am learning a lot here. It is hard to disengage when she starts, I have to do a better job of just letting her be herself and let it go. As to the papers she would ask me to rewrite them for her. She has found a new host to do this for her, her Stats professor and one time academic advisor who is 18 yrs her senior. I wish them the best but we all know how it is going to turn out, and he has no clue.
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maxen
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2013, 07:15:40 AM »

this post from 2010 speaks so closely to my experiences. i need to comment on a few bits. thanks to anyone who works through this, maybe some of the episodes in here are yours too.

Borderlines often choose people that have very strong opinions about how they should live. This triggers the punitive parent that lives intrapsychically and internally commands them to do things. Since much of the disorder is about fear, there is a tendency to self-defeat, which only creates more need for the partner to control. Failure is not an option to the partner, because this is a mature, responsible thought.



i had more than one instance of this with my stbxw, but the most glaring was the issue of her weight. she was (let's be honest) almost obese before our wedding, but lost some pounds into the start of the marriage. the weight was no impediment to my feelings, but her father had had a heart attack and her grandmother has lost a leg to diabetes and it seemed a good idea for her own sake if she cared about the situation. also, soon after we were married she got sciatica, and the doctors told her they wouldn't operate until she lost some pounds. after a year of not an ounce of weight loss they went ahead anyway. unfortunately, as she continued to not care and not do anything about it, i, ignorant of BPD, became annoyed at what appeared to me to be a lack of responsibility to herself, and frankly to me and to us. i expressed this opinion. i also offered to join her in any attempt she made, as i had a few to lose myself. she chose weight watchers, and lost 60 pounds. then put it back on. which may be the usual weight-loss yo-yo but from living with her it looks now like the tendency to self-defeat and create a situation for someone else to fix.

unfortunately, showing what she considered to be less than total emotional support (which would, i believe, consist in hugging her and telling her that everything was just fine as it was) only triggered what 2010 mentions above about the punitive parent that lives intrapsychically (and in reality too: her mother had been insulting to her sometimes about her weight when she was younger).

Since this is an insecure attachment disorder, they cannot feel good about themselves when their self object feels bad. When the self object feels badly, it withdraws, causing the Borderline to cling and act out. When this immature behavior no longer provides relief, the Borderline must split the self object (that's you) off of them to protect the fragile self. That fragile self is very scared and looks for rescuers (new attachments) to cling to ... .

i have depression; sometimes i would go incommunicado for maybe a day and a half. i thought she was very tolerant of it and i was very grateful for that, but the only sign of trouble before she began her program of deceit and departure was an email that said, "i'm sorry you have depression but ... ." after she left she accused me of thinking that the depression was all about me, when i had often said it must be hard to live with and thanked her for her patience (the no-acknowledgement BPD thing). she hadn't been as patient with it as she appeared.

Borderline is very much an identity disorder- it is a feeling of defectiveness, unworthiness and fear of abandonment. It is also a fear of engulfment which causes hatred of the attachment. This hatred requires an acting out which can be seen in passive aggression and avoidance while still maintaining the need for the attachment (dependency behaviors.)

this is how my w acted out. i've read many stories on here of florid cases of BPD, but my stbxw isn't that way. she is professionally very high functioning (her success was one thing that attracted me; she's also phi beta kappa), gregarious, was only once or twice verbally abusive but that's nothing, we all get upset sometimes. but for such a competent person, the things she simply wouldn't do, and the things she 'forgot'! she 'forgot' to save the links i had accumulated when she took the computer in to be repaired; she 'forgot' to tell me when she had broken a glass in the kitchen, a thing i discovered when i walked barefoot into the kitchen; two months later she 'forgot' again to tell me when she broke another glass in the kitchen; she 'forgot' to check the back windows on my car in addition to the front windows before a rainstorm; etc. she just wouldn't renew a magazine subscription she said she would renew, although the subscription card was right there by her keys when she left the house every morning. when i asked her why she wouldn't do it, no answer. i think this was hostility towards me, but she was also slovenly around the house to an incredible degree, and i  think in general she liked to have others (viz me, or the cleaning people, whom i though unnecessary) take care of all physical and situational messes for her. i just couldn't do that enough for her satisfaction. a marriage is a partnership.

You'll need to expect this behavior from now on since you represent a bad person to her. It doesn't matter what you did in the past to champion her- she thinks of it as controlling. She is already reading your face and projecting anger on it. You'll need to ignore these comments if you want to get out of crazy town. The only way that you can become good again is if you relax and let go of the outcome for her. She's on her own. No more roundabout talks about who is right and who is wrong because this appears like scolding behaviors that a parent would do to a child.



from the look on her own face, she has alot of anger to project.

and in bold, excellent advice, if only i had read this thread when it was written. i didn't have the personal strength during the marriage to allow this, which is an issue for me and the T.

This is a disorder, you must accept it. Allow the Borderline to think of you badly.

this is on my mind right now because we're in the divorce process. long messy story short, i filed first. i'm worried sick over how she'll react when she's served, which is bad because she's renting space in my head: will she feel hurt? maybe i should let her soothe her victimhood by letting her feel arrogantly gracious when it comes to the negotiations? during our last face to face meeting, she said in fury, "i haven't filed yet?" (so she didn't know i had) as if it was a sign of her good will that i wasn't appreciating, and it also showed that she thought the entire business of the end of the marriage was up to her, not only how she chose to do it (a campaign of deceit and an exit affair, followed by a turn to emotional sadism, which has all really scarred me), but the legal process too. the T points out that she assumes i'll just be there for her to treat as she thinks fit from the comfort of her new relationship, to return to or divorce; after all she has that right, since the marriage was just such a nightmare!

otoh, by filing i've refused to let her continue to control my life, and there are substantial legal benefits to filing first in my state. but of course, her last statements left the door ajar juuuust enough to keep me wondering about reconciliation. on the legal board i was advised, when you serve, don't look back. i've got about 10 days to decide.
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alliance
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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2013, 08:12:58 AM »

2010, thank you for your synopsis of the borderline dance/dynamics. Your words spoke so clearly to me.

I was very attracted to my ex because she was, publicly, a very strong, capable, dedicated, and successful woman. Privately, it was a different story. The dichotomy between the two was very confusing and very difficult, for me, to deal with.

In some ways, privately, I felt like I was being groomed into what she needed me to be. It just wasn't my natural way of being. I didn't know how, and more importantly didn't want to learn, how to deal with her never ending insecurity, need for constant support and positive reinforcement, baffling and conflicting needs, wants, desires that changed on a whim, using sex as a substitute for intimacy, using sex as the answer to most everything, the fluxuating need for attention along with the clearly stated feeling of being engulfed.

It was maddening. And never ending. And exhausting. And not very fulfilling.



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maxen
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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2013, 05:30:35 PM »

alliance, we've had similar experiences.
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