BPD and manipulation ?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I am no expert or psychologist but multiple bad experiences with my diagnosed BPD friend has made me wonder at whether many of the things she does to me and to others, are intentional and that having a diagnosed condition isn't in fact a very handy 'blank cheque' for getting away with apalling behaviour.  I think she's in control more than some would give her credit for.   Pushing the envelope for example,  to see how much I'll take , trying to test me , that to me is intentional manipulation, - strategic thinking, not some subconscious act from a diseased mind.

Many of the hurtful things she does to me show a lack of regard for my feelings which if they were from someone without BPD , that person would simply be regarded as nasty and selfish, I wonder if much of her behaviour is simply just that , nasty and selfish and not due to a clinical reason, after all she is not some sort of 'lab rat' she is a human being like anyone else.

What makes me more confused about much of her behaviour is that I have experienced examples of compassion and kindness, and importantly, empathy !  so she is capable of these good things if it suits her, (even tho it's on rare occasions)   It would be so much easier to accept an all bad textbook personality, but when she can show empathy thats a hard one when she does the complete opposite most of the time.  It often leaves me thinking what the hell is going on?   How much is BPD and how much is her ?

?

[tryingtohelp]

I am no expert or psychologist but multiple bad experiences with my diagnosed BPD friend has made me wonder at whether many of the things she does to me and to others, are intentional and that having a diagnosed condition isn't in fact a very handy 'blank cheque' for getting away with apalling behaviour.  I think she's in control more than some would give her credit for.   Pushing the envelope for example,  to see how much I'll take , trying to test me , that to me is intentional manipulation, - strategic thinking, not some subconscious act from a diseased mind.

Many of the hurtful things she does to me show a lack of regard for my feelings which if they were from someone without BPD , that person would simply be regarded as nasty and selfish, I wonder if much of her behaviour is simply just that , nasty and selfish and not due to a clinical reason, after all she is not some sort of 'lab rat' she is a human being like anyone else.

What makes me more confused about much of her behaviour is that I have experienced examples of compassion and kindness, and importantly, empathy !  so she is capable of these good things if it suits her, (even tho it's on rare occasions)   It would be so much easier to accept an all bad textbook personality, but when she can show empathy thats a hard one when she does the complete opposite most of the time.  It often leaves me thinking what the hell is going on?   How much is BPD and how much is her ?

?

[HardDaysNight]

... .

Many of the hurtful things she does to me show a lack of regard for my feelings which if they were from someone without BPD , that person would simply be regarded as nasty and selfish, I wonder if much of her behaviour is simply just that , nasty and selfish and not due to a clinical reason, after all she is not some sort of 'lab rat' she is a human being like anyone else... .   How much is BPD and how much is her ?

It is all her.  BPD is just a name for the constellation of behaviors and reactions to the world she has.

BPD doesn't make nasty and selfish behavior any less so.  Typically the "insanity" defense is reserved for the true mental inability to tell right from wrong, not the inability to feel guilt for doing wrong.  People with BPD know right from wrong, they just can't help themselves or admit responsibility.

Further, if she has been diagnosed then there is no excuse.  Failure to see proper treatement means she has inflicted this disability upon herself.  No diferent if she staid drunk all the time and then tried to avoid responsibility for her actions becasue she was drunk.

[Clearmind]

I had the same thoughts tryingtohelp! pwBPD don’t intentionally set out to hurt us. They operate on a level that is very ingrained. Coping mechanisms are hard wired and it really is not about you at all.

Borderlines will projection their feelings onto you because they have not learnt the skills to self soothe ~ not your fault!. It feels like you are targeted. Once we understand this simple yet complex BPD thought process we can then find ways to learn to not take it personally. Taking it personally causes us to counter-attack, fight back, defend, explain which is not helpful and it heads into circular argument territory which is so confusing and invaliating for you both.

Using validation protects you and defuses the situation without it escalating into a rage. Invalidation does the opposite - as does taking it personally.

She is who she is – this is her! You have great qualities, you have weaknesses, insecurities, hang ups etc – this is you! Its tempting to want to split her into good and bad ~ it feels better and it validates us. What it won't do is help you learn about you. If we are open to it, Borderlines teach us a lot about ourselves.

When she projects, how do you feel? Why is that you take it personally? Is your own reaction something you can learn from? Because tryingtohelp she will not change – we can however change our reaction, practice acceptance and build our own self worth to a stage where we realise its not about us at all ~ and we stop reacting and start responding.

For her to understand her own dynamic she needs therapy. You can only understand yours!

How does this sit with you tryingtohelp? Can you see your role?

[Tim300]

Original Poster,

I have wondered the same thing.  I think my BPD ex-fiancee had strong traits of Multiple Personality Disorder (now known as Dissociative Identity Disorder).  If I had to guess, I would guess that she didn't plot to be nice and then destroy, but rather, she was operating like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide in ways that were out of her control.  In moments of clarity she would ask herself "God, what have I just done?"  I don't think this absolves her for her behavior.  If she knows she acts like this, she should fully warn people in advance.  Maybe our broken engagement will be a wake up call for her in further identifying and acknowledging her issues. 

[Newton]

Hi 'tryingtohelp'... .once we step out of the eye of the storm this is a natural question to ask when we attempt to piece together the relationship history... .it's a heady combination of "what could have I done differently?... .how much responsibility should I accept?... .could things have been different if I or he/she had done x'y'z?"... .etc... .

Clearmind makes a crucial point... ."it is not really about you at all"... .

Things are as they are... .this IS her behaviour... .repeatedly... .(with brief interludes)... .

How do YOU think and feel about having someone who treats you this way in your life?... .

Regardless of whether or not she is culpable... .or acting out... .or it's intentionally manipulative... .the behaviour remains the same... .it could be calculated drip fed affection... .or reaction to stimulus and subsequent automatic behaviour.  Fathoming the "why" will not alter your truth of how you are treated... .

Are you willing to accept this?... .or not?... .

[felix22]

Great reply clearmind!